06-29-10 05:16 AM
121 ... 345
tools
  1. jpr196's Avatar
    One of the comments on the front page of the article you posted says a lot about the apple fanbase and the whole "crap in a box" theory:

    "all the people that try to blame the apple for the faulty design...how many of them are actually going to hold the phone in there hands while talking....most of us (over 90%) will either be using a bluetooth or the headphones that come with the phone...and another thing who is not going to get the cover for there iphone 4 anyways...i mean if this problem was not going to come up then were any of us going to leave there iphone without the cover....i wasnt...

    so lets stop kidding ourselves and trying to act like any of us were going to return the iphone back...."

    It almost appears to be an excellent satire on a typical apple fanboy...sadly I don't believe that's the case. Seriously, who thinks like this?
    06-26-10 11:34 AM
  2. andyahs's Avatar
    how many of them are actually going to hold the phone in there hands while talking
    Yes it is absurd to think one would hold a phone with their hands while talking........
    06-26-10 11:41 AM
  3. jayman2's Avatar
    so lets stop kidding ourselves and trying to act like any of us were going to return the iphone back...."

    It almost appears to be an excellent satire on a typical apple fanboy...sadly I don't believe that's the case. Seriously, who thinks like this?
    I believe the number or people who would return their iPhone 4 because of this particular situation, would be very, very low.

    I for one, wouldn't even consider returning mine.
    06-26-10 11:53 AM
  4. stuaw11's Avatar
    Look, no one knows if its ALL hardware or ALL software, or a mixture. No one knows yet!

    Making stupid assumptions that Jobs this or that or Apple this or that 2 days after launch is meaningless.

    Im sure there's a little legitimacy to the bridging the antennas, but maybe this is only in a lower signal area COMBINED with a software issue reporting signal. Maybe the software is making the phone believe the signal level is way too low and to drop out the call and invoke a "Call failed" message. No one knows yet.

    There are a lot of possibilities and any "answer" at this point is a mere assumption.
    06-26-10 12:26 PM
  5. JoJoCal19's Avatar
    Look, no one knows if its ALL hardware or ALL software, or a mixture. No one knows yet!

    Making stupid assumptions that Jobs this or that or Apple this or that 2 days after launch is meaningless.

    Im sure there's a little legitimacy to the bridging the antennas, but maybe this is only in a lower signal area COMBINED with a software issue reporting signal. Maybe the software is making the phone believe the signal level is way too low and to drop out the call and invoke a "Call failed" message. No one knows yet.

    There are a lot of possibilities and any "answer" at this point is a mere assumption.
    I agree. I've seen so much from my own testing and from other peoples experience that I really don't WTF to think anymore. I'm getting more and more different results in my testing. Im leaning towards it being software but at this point I just really don't know. If Apple releases a "fix" with iOS 4.0.1 and it fixes the issue then great. If not then Im really 50/50 on returning it or buying a bumper. This phone is so d*mn sweet and I just cant bear to go back to the Storm or anything else for that matter.
    06-26-10 02:30 PM
  6. JoJoCal19's Avatar
    So after doing more testing today here are my results:

    At my house where I have 5 full bars of 3G and strong service I use the death grip and cannot get it to drop any bars. I also run speed tests and average a strong 2.5Mbps down and 1.2Mbps up with the phone set down and also while applying the death grip.

    I was out driving around today and I was in a somewhat rural area just outside of my neighborhood and had 5 full bars of 3G and I was able to apply the death grip and reduce the bars to 2 bars. I also ran speed tests and while applying the death grip even though it still had a few bars it brought the test to a halt.

    Before I got to the area near my neighborhood I was in a more remote rural area where I had 3 to 4 bars of 3G and I was able to apply the death grip and drop to zero bars or searching.

    I just think that if it were a hardware issue I would be able to atleast affect data transmission to some degree at my house.
    06-26-10 03:58 PM
  7. stuaw11's Avatar
    I agree. I've seen so much from my own testing and from other peoples experience that I really don't WTF to think anymore. I'm getting more and more different results in my testing. Im leaning towards it being software but at this point I just really don't know. If Apple releases a "fix" with iOS 4.0.1 and it fixes the issue then great. If not then Im really 50/50 on returning it or buying a bumper. This phone is so d*mn sweet and I just cant bear to go back to the Storm or anything else for that matter.
    If it was an all hardware issue, then everyone would get the exact same results every single time of dropping bars since the hardware is standard. This shows that it must be at least somewhat software related.
    06-26-10 04:32 PM
  8. JoJoCal19's Avatar
    This post from MacRumors is probably one of better speculations on what the issue is:

    Mac Forums - View Single Post - Jobs says Signal Strength a "non issue"

    I post this in the wrong thread earlier:

    I have been trying to think about this thing logically - once of I got over the fact that my new "superphone" was dropping nearly every call I made from home - and I have a theory about whats going on (maybe just wishful thinking!)

    First I figure there are at least three truths that I think we can all agree upon:

    1) All cellphones suffer some sort of signal loss when held - the nature of antennas is simple - block it and reception becomes weaker. Although, not all cellphones may show a drop in bars and this could be based upon location and also upon the software the phone uses in determine the bars - my understanding is that signal strength is measured in -dB and the closer to 0 the stronger the signal, however, there is no set rule that says -50 dB equals 5 bars, what measurement equals what number of bars displayed is determined by the cellphone maker. In other words, an LG phone may not show any loss of bars when held but may still be receiving a weaker signal.

    2) Apple designed the iPhone 4 to have part of the case act as the antenna thereby putting the antenna in direct contact with a human being when the phone is held. Logically speaking this would result in an exaggeration of the problem listed in 1 above - of course I would defer to an electrical engineers opinion on this.

    3) It has been stated, and probably is true, that Apple redesigned the modem software in iOS 4 such that the phone favors connection with less noise over a connection that may have a stronger signal. (Walt Mossberg's review discusses this)

    When considering the the three things above - I really begin to think we have both a hardware and software problem. Hardware wise, the antenna is placed in a less than preferable location for left handed holding resulting in a stronger than normal signal loss when holding the phone in the left hand but second Apple designed the phone to favor less congested towers meaning that if there are two towers in range of your phone, towers A and B. If Tower A is 100 feet away with a very strong signal close to 0dB but is 50% more congested than Tower B which is 1000 feet but offers a weaker signal - the iPhone will choose Tower B. So if the phone is already choosing a weaker signal to connect too than holding the phone will only make it more difficult to receive that weaker signal, resulting in signal loss and drop calls/call quality/data performance.

    I feel that when considering the software element, it also explain why the truth explained in 1 above is not nearly as noticeable in other brands of phones (or even some iPhone before iOS4) since those phones likely favor strong signals vs. less congested. In addition, it also explains why in some areas, less congested areas with more towers or more congested areas with even more towers, the phone performs the same if not better than previous models - at least in my experience. It also explains how in testing the problem either wasn't noticed or didn't seem to be a big issue since Apple likely only tested the phone in one region.

    Of course this is not meant to excuse Apple for a problematic design, nor excuse Jobs arrogance, but simply stated if software does come into play with the problem - the extent that the hardware is flawed can only be determined once the software is fixed - then we need to demand a recall, redesign, or some sort of retribution.
    06-26-10 05:26 PM
  9. jayman2's Avatar
    When considering the the three things above - I really begin to think we have both a hardware and software problem. Hardware wise, the antenna is placed in a less than preferable location for left handed holding resulting in a stronger than normal signal loss when holding the phone in the left hand but second Apple designed the phone to favor less congested towers meaning that if there are two towers in range of your phone, towers A and B. If Tower A is 100 feet away with a very strong signal close to 0dB but is 50% more congested than Tower B which is 1000 feet but offers a weaker signal - the iPhone will choose Tower B. So if the phone is already choosing a weaker signal to connect too than holding the phone will only make it more difficult to receive that weaker signal, resulting in signal loss and drop calls/call quality/data performance.
    I understand what you're saying, but how would you explain losing signal strength over wifi?

    In my case, I'm connected to my home wifi with 5 bars. Now if I hold my phone the way I think most humans hold a phone (the way that Jobs says is wrong), the bars start to drop until they're all gone. Now if I hold the phone at the top, by the front and back glass, the bars come back. Now while holding the phone like this, if I place the fingers of my other hand back on the lower antenna, the bars start to drop again.
    06-26-10 06:14 PM
  10. chuckh0308's Avatar
    One of the comments on the front page of the article you posted says a lot about the apple fanbase and the whole "crap in a box" theory:

    "all the people that try to blame the apple for the faulty design...how many of them are actually going to hold the phone in there hands while talking....most of us (over 90%) will either be using a bluetooth or the headphones that come with the phone...and another thing who is not going to get the cover for there iphone 4 anyways...i mean if this problem was not going to come up then were any of us going to leave there iphone without the cover....i wasnt...

    so lets stop kidding ourselves and trying to act like any of us were going to return the iphone back...."

    It almost appears to be an excellent satire on a typical apple fanboy...sadly I don't believe that's the case. Seriously, who thinks like this?
    I don't think I've ever seen anyone with an iPhone use a headset of any kind for phone calls. We tried Bluetooth with our 3G, but it only worked for about two days and then went crazy. It hasn't seen a BT device since! And try using a headset for surfing the internet...lol!
    06-26-10 07:37 PM
  11. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Jobs should bring back the pull out antenna, then he can claim he invented it, you know, the one we used to pull put with our teeth before we answered the call? lol
    06-27-10 03:58 AM
  12. Entertainment72's Avatar
    After a fews days, my service has almost doubled in strength! I am nearing 5Mbps (WiMax/LTE what?) down and 1.5 up WOW! Kudos AT&T and Apple!
    Both of my 4's (32gb/16gb) have no antenna issue whatsoever, tried and tried to replicate, no deal.
    06-28-10 09:17 AM
  13. dcgore's Avatar
    I think there is no actual issue. I can send texts and make/receive calls when i have "no bars." I am thinking this is a meter issue and will be solved in the next OS update.
    06-28-10 09:29 AM
  14. jayman2's Avatar
    I think there is no actual issue. I can send texts and make/receive calls when i have "no bars." I am thinking this is a meter issue and will be solved in the next OS update.
    That's exactly what I'm thinking. When I'm showing no bars, everything still functions perfectly.
    06-28-10 10:34 AM
  15. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    That's exactly what I'm thinking. When I'm showing no bars, everything still functions perfectly.
    Calls and sms still go trough the gsm network, data goes trough gprs/edge/3g, try using data and see if it's affected.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-28-10 11:09 AM
  16. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Try loading up a web page but after you clear your cache. If that works as usual, no delays, then it could be just the meter.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-28-10 11:14 AM
  17. jayman2's Avatar
    Try loading up a web page but after you clear your cache. If that works as usual, no delays, then it could be just the meter.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I just tried it and it worked. While covering both bottom atennas and no bars showing I went to a website that was not cached, one that I had not been to before. The page opened right up. I can also stream music through Pandora or Slacker with no interruptions.
    06-28-10 11:24 AM
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I just tried it and it worked. While covering both bottom atennas and no bars showing I went to a website that was not cached, one that I had not been to before. The page opened right up. I can also stream music through Pandora or Slacker with no interruptions.
    Ok, one last thing, are you trying this in full signal area? Is it dropping to 1-2 bars? If that's the case it should still work. Try this experiment in a low signal area, when it's showing 1-2 bars. What happens then? Does the signal disappear/browser still work? If it doesn't then it's all blown out of proportions I think.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-28-10 11:47 AM
  19. sivan's Avatar
    I was able to reproduce this problem today, it exists. Just holding my finger on the left seam steadily brought down the signal.

    I don't think it's a huge deal but it's a problem.

    I'm much more interested to know if it works better on AT&T's network.
    06-29-10 01:39 AM
  20. stuaw11's Avatar
    Everyone is WAY too worried about these mythical "bars" instead of the key question of "does the phone hold the call?"

    Bars being there or dropping mean nothing really in the end other than being OCD about how many drawn lines on a screen are being displayed.

    If the phone is usable then its not that big a deal. Ive seen more whining stories, pictures, and video of this than people actually saying it affected their usage of the phone. Its just something to complain about it seems.
    06-29-10 02:12 AM
  21. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Everyone is WAY too worried about these mythical "bars" instead of the key question of "does the phone hold the call?"

    Bars being there or dropping mean nothing really in the end other than being OCD about how many drawn lines on a screen are being displayed.

    If the phone is usable then its not that big a deal. Ive seen more whining stories, pictures, and video of this than people actually saying it affected their usage of the phone. Its just something to complain about it seems.
    Ah but the problem is not when you have a full signal and you loose a few bars if you hold it "wrong", if you still have 1-2 bars the phone should work as normal.
    The problem is when you only have 1-2 bars to start with and if you then hold it "wrong" it looses signal completely. That's the problem.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-29-10 05:16 AM
121 ... 345
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD