06-29-10 05:16 AM
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  1. Radius's Avatar
    Just bashers running their mouths rumors. I know of not one person that has this problem. I like Apple's advice "don't hold it that way" LOL Classic.
    So if no one is having problems then why is Apple issuing instructions on how to hold the phone? Lends credence to the fact there's a problem.

    So if you can't hold it like a phone, now what? I know radio waves have a harder time going through glass and this thing is sheathed in glass, so is the only solution to never hold it with your left hand? That seems like a serious limitation.
    06-25-10 03:33 PM
  2. spawn026's Avatar
    So if no one is having problems then why is Apple issuing instructions on how to hold the phone? Lends credence to the fact there's a problem.

    So if you can't hold it like a phone, now what? I know radio waves have a harder time going through glass and this thing is sheathed in glass, so is the only solution to never hold it with your left hand? That seems like a serious limitation.
    technically apple never issued instructions on how to hold the phone. Someone emailed jobs personally and he received a message, there was no actual public post. I do think the response was kind of s****ty but Steve always been a bit of an arrogant man.
    06-25-10 03:43 PM
  3. JoJoCal19's Avatar
    I've been home ever since I got my phone yesterday. And my hands are completely dry also.

    I've only tried this over wifi. Are you using wifi at work and at home, and when you duplicate it at work, does anything stop functioning?
    All of my testing has been with Wifi off.
    06-25-10 03:50 PM
  4. Username00089's Avatar
    I actually have the iPhone 4 and really haven't experienced this issue (yet).
    06-25-10 04:09 PM
  5. Username00089's Avatar
    the bad news is steve jobs says he isn't gonna fix the issue...


    LMAO. I love Steve Jobs. I would have had the same response.
    06-25-10 04:14 PM
  6. flackberry's Avatar
    People should just start returning them in mass and send a big message to Apple. The same thing with RIM too. Oh wait....that already happens with multiple exchanges of the same blackberry device to get a good one.
    06-25-10 04:47 PM
  7. Guru's Avatar
    Yep sure enough tried it just now and goes from full bars all the way to none. and as soon as I let go back up to full bars. How crazy is that? Hope it's just software so they can fix it in an update.
    06-25-10 05:42 PM
  8. roozilla's Avatar

    Seriously, if I were on the board of Apple, I'd rake Jobs over the coals for that comment.

    - R.
    Why would the board say ANYTHING NEGATIVE to a guy who has increased the stock price of Apple by 90X since he took over? Most people don't insult, let alone kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

    That aside, this issue is pretty bad, but it's not a killer. I don't think most people hold their phone in that particular position anyway. I know I don't. Even if they did, it's not a major deal breaker to have to not hold the phone a certain way. I think by now, most iPhone users have gotten used to having to make certain concessions in order to live with the iPhone. For the past three years, we've gone from wanting simple things like copy/paste, getting used to dropped calls, and wanting push mail. Now we just have to avoid holding the phone in a certain way, no big deal really. At least it's a flaw we can easily work around, not like dropped calls or no copy/paste.
    06-25-10 05:54 PM
  9. Branta's Avatar
    On a side note, after easily replicating the issue at work yesterday, Im now at home and cannot get it to drop not even 1 bar.
    That's your phone's way of telling you to go home

    Seriously, that suggests some of the observed symptoms could simply be the software calibration of received signal into meter indication.

    Using some arbitrary numbers to illustrate how this might happen. If a "full house" shows above -70dBm signal and your home has a -40dBm signal... that's 30dB above the level for full bars. For discussion, let's say your hand attenuates the signal by about 20dB - the received signal at home is reduced to -60dBm, still 10dB better than minimum for full bar indication. Let's say the signal in your office is -69dBm, that's a margin of only 1dB before it drops one bar on the indicator. The same hand reduces the signal from -69 to -89dBm, probably enough to take at least 2 or 3 bars off the meter. Same hand, same phone.

    The bottom line is not the meter, but whether it works in a call. Nothing else matters, you don't even look at the meter when the phone is pressed to your ear.
    06-25-10 06:18 PM
  10. Username00089's Avatar
    That's your phone's way of telling you to go home

    Seriously, that suggests some of the observed symptoms could simply be the software calibration of received signal into meter indication.

    Using some arbitrary numbers to illustrate how this might happen. If a "full house" shows above -70dBm signal and your home has a -40dBm signal... that's 30dB above the level for full bars. For discussion, let's say your hand attenuates the signal by about 20dB - the received signal at home is reduced to -60dBm, still 10dB better than minimum for full bar indication. Let's say the signal in your office is -69dBm, that's a margin of only 1dB before it drops one bar on the indicator. The same hand reduces the signal from -69 to -89dBm, probably enough to take at least 2 or 3 bars off the meter. Same hand, same phone.

    The bottom line is not the meter, but whether it works in a call. Nothing else matters, you don't even look at the meter when the phone is pressed to your ear.
    I ask this just to educate myself. About how many dB's equal a bar on signal?
    06-25-10 06:25 PM
  11. Branta's Avatar
    I ask this just to educate myself. About how many dB's equal a bar on signal?
    Being honest about it, only the programmer knows, it is completely undefined in published standards. I suspect most manufacturers reverse engineer this calibration and make the display swing full variation over the range of useful signals frequently encountered in real use - so the customer thinks it is working well. It would be embarrassing to have a phone still showing 2 bars when the signal got too weak to hear, and equally embarrassing to be stuck with one bar not showing when stood next to the mast.

    It will certainly be different between manufacturers, maybe between phone models, and may even vary from one software build to another. It will also depend on the accuracy and precision of measurement in the RF chipset, which is not usually controllable by the phone manufacturer.

    The only practical clue we can get easily is from Blackberry, where it is simple to toggle between bars and numeric indication. On my Bold 9000 (v4.6.0.304) it looks like the step is about 10dB or 12dB/bar.
    06-25-10 06:59 PM
  12. Username00089's Avatar
    Being honest about it, only the programmer knows, it is completely undefined in published standards. I suspect most manufacturers reverse engineer this calibration and make the display swing full variation over the range of useful signals frequently encountered in real use - so the customer thinks it is working well. It would be embarrassing to have a phone still showing 2 bars when the signal got too weak to hear, and equally embarrassing to be stuck with one bar not showing when stood next to the mast.

    It will certainly be different between manufacturers, maybe between phone models, and may even vary from one software build to another. It will also depend on the accuracy and precision of measurement in the RF chipset, which is not usually controllable by the phone manufacturer.

    The only practical clue we can get easily is from Blackberry, where it is simple to toggle between bars and numeric indication. On my Bold 9000 (v4.6.0.304) it looks like the step is about 10dB or 12dB/bar.
    When I had an iPhone 3G (2nd gen) back in 2008 and the update to 2.0 came,
    which might have been 2.0.1 or something like that, I was convinced that
    the signal bars were sometimes cosmetic too. I think that has been the case
    on iPhones since then. This is why I think your "reverse engineer" theory
    is absolutely relevant. This is what I exactly expect to happen in the next
    software update. I was going to mention my experience with the 2nd gen
    earlier in this thread and others, but I was hoping someone who knew way
    more about this stuff than I do would make the post that you did in order to
    help drive my assertion.

    With all that said, this all varies from user to user as you described yesterday.
    The only way any of us will ever know if this affects us is through our own
    experience. Everyone is relying heavily on internet reports, youtube videos,
    and all the blogs that any 15 year old virgin who's living with his single mother
    can create from his basement. Unfortunately there is a small minority of
    people like you and I that can grasp this. So I'm sure the iPhone flaming on
    here and other sites will continue. That is until signal bars become cosmetic
    again in a software update and the complaints from new users die down.
    06-25-10 07:17 PM
  13. Cleveland's Avatar
    I have had no problems of holding my phone or bars dropping, but what I have noticed is, where I'd drop my signal on my 3GS... I keep at least a bare minimum signal now... so the antenna reception is vastly improved... I just say everyone should just get a bumper and forgeddaboutit lol
    06-25-10 08:15 PM
  14. Radius's Avatar
    I have had no problems of holding my phone or bars dropping, but what I have noticed is, where I'd drop my signal on my 3GS... I keep at least a bare minimum signal now... so the antenna reception is vastly improved... I just say everyone should just get a bumper and forgeddaboutit lol
    Exactly. Either use a bumper or case or just live with the problem. It was a horrible design decision to leave an uninsulated antenna hanging out of the phone but as I pointed out in a previous post, I believe the marketing arm of the company probably stopped the engineers from making a reasonable design decision in favor of "optics". I have seen this before and I will see it again.
    06-25-10 08:32 PM
  15. spawn026's Avatar
    A fix is going to be issued in 4.0.1

    Software fix in the works

    Readers report that Apple's tech support forums originally confirmed that a iOS 4.0.1 software fix addressing the issue would ship early next week (as early as Monday), before the comments were subsequently taken down along with all the other related discussion about the matter.

    The fix is expected to address a issue in iOS 4 related to radio frequency calibration of the baseband. Readers who saw the original forum discussions say that the issue is believed to occur when switching frequencies; because the lag is allegedly not calibrated correctly, it results in the device reporting "no service" rather than switching to the frequency with the best signal to noise ratio.

    iOS 4 introduced some enhancements to how the baseband selects which frequencies to use, so it makes sense that the error may have crept into those changes. Additionally, this explains why iOS 4 has also caused similar problems for iPhone 3GS users.

    Additional readers have shared other related experiences that also corroborate the idea that the issue is related to iOS 4's software control of the baseband, including the fact that the issue seems easily reproducible when connecting to a WWAN 3G network but does not appear when connecting to a Microcell 3G. If the problem were simply hardware related issues of the antenna design, it should only affect iPhone 4 units with that new design and should occur at all times, regardless of the tower type. That is not being observed.
    AppleInsider | Death Grip hysteria may end Monday with iOS 4.01
    06-25-10 08:44 PM
  16. MysticMoonstone's Avatar
    That iOS 4 reception issue is looking more and more like a software bug Boy Genius Report

    Looks like its just an OS4 bug and NOT a hardware bug. I can replicate it on my 3GS on OS4 as well.

    Of course there will be SOME signal loss. Every time you put your hand over the back it cuts off at least some of the signal strength. Doesnt take an engineering degree to have common sense!
    I totally think it's a software issue.. i updated my iTouch with IOS4 and it's losing wifi signal like my iPhone 4 loses 3G (or 4G ) service.

    I do have this problem too.... but it's not just when i hold it. It just happens ALL the time. Up and down with the signal. I LOVE the phone but it's getting frustrating that i dont know when i really have a signal or not
    06-25-10 10:24 PM
  17. MysticMoonstone's Avatar
    Exactly. Either use a bumper or case or just live with the problem. It was a horrible design decision to leave an uninsulated antenna hanging out of the phone but as I pointed out in a previous post, I believe the marketing arm of the company probably stopped the engineers from making a reasonable design decision in favor of "optics". I have seen this before and I will see it again.
    i have a case and it does not help one bit
    06-25-10 10:26 PM
  18. jayman2's Avatar
    i have a case and it does not help one bit
    That could be more proof that it's a software issue.
    06-25-10 10:29 PM
  19. mazinkaiser's Avatar
    Interesting that engadget and gizmodo hasn't reported on this. We'll see in a few days if a fix can be made or if it's screwed for good.
    06-26-10 04:53 AM
  20. andyahs's Avatar
    Interesting that engadget and gizmodo hasn't reported on this. We'll see in a few days if a fix can be made or if it's screwed for good.
    Steve Jobs will really look like a fool as he said himself 'You are holding it wrong,' Now Apple is releasing a software fix. Will this fix help you hold it the correct way?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-26-10 05:58 AM
  21. JR_Rider's Avatar
    I picked up my phone on Thursday afternoon and upon reading about the reception issues I had to test out the issue for myself. I too experience a problem with the phone dropping my call when I held the device in my left palm. While this issue certainly seems to be a poor quality control issue, the solution is a simple as using a case or skin on the phone. It would be nice for apple to provide one of these options since it's their oversight that requires us to need it. But honestly if you have a $600+ phone with no insurance AND no case or protection you are taking a huge risk.
    06-26-10 06:10 AM
  22. NSheld's Avatar
    06-26-10 06:23 AM
  23. andyahs's Avatar
    Apple's response points to the problem being the fault of the customer, not Apple's design.
    iPhone 4 antenna issue: User error or design flaw? | Circuit Breaker - CNET News

    You consumers are to blame so get your act together.
    Last edited by andyahs; 06-26-10 at 07:33 AM.
    06-26-10 07:31 AM
  24. JoJoCal19's Avatar
    That could be more proof that it's a software issue.
    I've seen more and more cases of people making posts on various forums and putting up youtube links showing they still have the issue even when using the bumper. Some show the issue is not quite as bad (dropping to no service or searching) but it halts speed tests to a stop. I can't replicate the issue at my house nor can I effect the speed test but when I was out to dinner last night I could drop it 2-3 bars plus it would bring the speed test to a halt. That experience of location plus the issue still occurring with a bumper plus affecting 3G/3GS with iOS4 leads me to believe its the software.
    06-26-10 08:20 AM
  25. grahamf's Avatar
    Steve Jobs will really look like a fool as he said himself 'You are holding it wrong,' Now Apple is releasing a software fix. Will this fix help you hold it the correct way?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I'd laugh if the fix was to pop up a warning with a diagram of the proper way to hold an iPhone.
    06-26-10 11:18 AM
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