06-23-11 02:18 PM
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  1. RetroAndreas's Avatar
    No matter how much I like RIM, I can't go back to their products as the company will no longer exist in 3 years.

    There I said it.

    Apple wins again.
    Love some of the statements on this thread especially the "Apple wins again" comment.

    Just so you know.

    Here is Apple accepting the financial version of food stamps in 97.

    Microsoft to Invest in Apple; Jobs, Ellison on Board | PCWorld

    and to the statement "the company will no longer exist in 3 years". It appears you and Michael may have a lot in common.

    Dell: Apple should close shop - CNET News

    There I said it.
    06-17-11 11:00 PM
  2. shabbasuraj's Avatar
    Now that you have joined the dark side to speak can you ever see yourself going back to using a bb after purchasing an iphone or any other smart phone? What made you switch?

    I don't ever see that in the realm of possibility of going back to bb and you couldn't pay me enough money to go back to the POS phone that was my bb. In my opinion the iphone and bb aren't even in the same realm of phones since the bb seems so far behind any smart phone today on the market. What made me switch was realizing how crappy my bb was after being kicked off the internet connection several times, calls dropping, and the lack of applications and the ones that were available were over priced.

    Nah. never going back. They need to release os 9. That is the hail mary.

    The company is a mess in terms of r&d.

    Pure vapourware pipeline.

    ya.......


    -----------

    Dear Jim,

    Thanks for running your company into the ground. Hope that NHL thing works out for you.

    Sincerely,

    Steve
    06-17-11 11:52 PM
  3. shabbasuraj's Avatar
    If/when the iPhone overtakes BB as the premier business machine, it will be a damning indictment of RIM and overall a bad outcome for business users.

    There is no reason why a business-oriented product shouldn't continue to be vastly superior to the iPhone for that specific purpose. To do everything the iPhone does, no matter how well it's built, you have to sacrifice a degree of core functionality.
    Apple has got the enterprise business unit.......dead in their sights.

    They can kill RIMs enterprise market, 'as collateral damage' by just out innovating the company. i.e., just bait RIM to crossover into their 'realm', like they are doing now.

    RIM really is AT THE crossroads..... more layoffs, stagnant ceo's, share value destruction, etc.
    06-17-11 11:59 PM
  4. Caesar1844's Avatar
    I wouldn't describe that as 'out-innovating' them per se. In terms of business functionality, Apple hasn't really innovated at all - everything the iPhone does from a business/organiser/email management/data security POV is an emulation of the RIM system, or a poorer alternative.

    The reality is that Apple is crap at the corporate services side of things. It's an afterthought to the rest of their product lines and from an innovation perspective they have never sought to lead the market there. The squeeze they are currently putting on RIM has nothing to do with iPhone providing a killer app for business - it comes from them simply making a concerted effort to simply emulate RIM's core services as best as possible, and relying on their additional functionality to get them over the line. As you say, RIM is trying to fight Apple on their own turf and that is only hastening their demise.

    If RIM disappears, you lose the one product in the marketplace which had a core focus on providing innovative solutions for business, and set the agenda for that market. In the long run, the corporate smartphone will suffer.
    Last edited by Caesar1844; 06-18-11 at 12:25 AM.
    06-18-11 12:19 AM
  5. shabbasuraj's Avatar
    Apple WILL NOT just have one model of phone.

    One day......... a second Apple handset will be released...

    the proverbial

    (foot to throat.... )





    ...........jus sayin
    06-18-11 02:11 AM
  6. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Apple WILL NOT just have one model of phone.

    One day......... a second Apple handset will be released...

    the proverbial

    (foot to throat.... )





    ...........jus sayin
    How old are you? Shut up and let the adults debate. Go to your room lol

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-18-11 02:49 AM
  7. Caesar1844's Avatar
    Apple WILL NOT just have one model of phone.

    One day......... a second Apple handset will be released...
    They're going to release a second business-oriented phone? Really? Got a link for that?

    I ask because Apple (the modern incarnation, at least) has never been interested in being innovators in the field of business solutions. They create innovative lifestyle products that often have a business application, but that's entirely different.
    06-18-11 04:15 AM
  8. shabbasuraj's Avatar
    It won't be marketed as a business phone. (This is obvious.)

    Pure Apple doctrine will be applied to the new product and it WILL capture another piece of the market OR even create a new niche category, which serves to keep Apple's competitors 2 steps behind.

    And to those companies that insists that they serve primarily an 'enterprise only' market.....???? well just carefully review the text from that last call from Jim.

    "Apple is a mobile company now." Steve.
    06-18-11 07:50 AM
  9. i7guy's Avatar
    Love some of the statements on this thread especially the "Apple wins again" comment.

    Just so you know.

    Here is Apple accepting the financial version of food stamps in 97.

    Microsoft to Invest in Apple; Jobs, Ellison on Board | PCWorld

    and to the statement "the company will no longer exist in 3 years". It appears you and Michael may have a lot in common.

    Dell: Apple should close shop - CNET News

    There I said it.
    You know, RIM could be the new Apple. In which case Apple should be worried. I personally think RIM has the know-it-all to release killer products, they just made some bad decisions (as apple did a while back).
    06-18-11 08:28 AM
  10. Caesar1844's Avatar
    It won't be marketed as a business phone. (This is obvious.)

    Pure Apple doctrine will be applied to the new product and it WILL capture another piece of the market OR even create a new niche category, which serves to keep Apple's competitors 2 steps behind.

    And to those companies that insists that they serve primarily an 'enterprise only' market.....???? well just carefully review the text from that last call from Jim.

    "Apple is a mobile company now." Steve.
    So why would business users care about a second Apple phone that doesn't serve their needs?

    Apple may drive RIM out of business but unless they replace them in terms of providing corporate technology innovation then the market will be much the poorer.

    I don't want a phone where its enterprise capability is ancillary to its main functions, and its manufacturer is only interested in keeping pace with the market for business users rather than providing innovative solutions.
    06-18-11 08:44 AM
  11. grunt0300's Avatar
    You know, RIM could be the new Apple. In which case Apple should be worried. I personally think RIM has the know-it-all to release killer products, they just made some bad decisions (as apple did a while back).
    If you really believe that RIM could be the new Apple, then please send me whatever it is that you are smoking. Your statement is arrogance to the max!
    mrsadkins9399 likes this.
    06-18-11 03:53 PM
  12. i7guy's Avatar
    If you really believe that RIM could be the new Apple, then please send me whatever it is that you are smoking. Your statement is arrogance to the max!
    You'll have to get your own smokes. it's just an opinion just like everybody else's on this forum. As far as arrogance it's just as arrogant as everybody else's.
    06-18-11 04:00 PM
  13. Caesar1844's Avatar
    If you really believe that RIM could be the new Apple, then please send me whatever it is that you are smoking. Your statement is arrogance to the max!
    Why? RIM has proven innovative capability, credibility and market presence. As Apple has shown, a company with those attributes is only a management change and an idea away from resurgance.

    If anything, I'd say your incredulity at the idea that another company could replicate Apple's turnaround is what's arrogant.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    i7guy likes this.
    06-18-11 08:02 PM
  14. grunt0300's Avatar
    As you say, RIM can do what Apple did, with an idea and a management change. Will there be a management change at RIM? What about a new idea? I'll be waiting to see about that. Don't rule out the possibility that Apple could buy out RIM. In business, anything is possible. It's all about the money, and that means "market share".
    06-18-11 09:04 PM
  15. Caesar1844's Avatar
    I don't see why Apple would be interested in buying out RIM. They don't want to be enterprise innovators.
    06-18-11 10:01 PM
  16. grunt0300's Avatar
    I don't see why Apple would be interested in buying out RIM. They don't want to be enterprise innovators.
    So then if they do buy out RIM, will you say that they are enterprise innovators, or just corporate raiders?
    06-18-11 10:12 PM
  17. Caesar1844's Avatar
    Well, depends what they did with it after they bought it, doesn't it?
    06-18-11 10:38 PM
  18. Accidental Post's Avatar
    Why? RIM has proven innovative capability, credibility and market presence. As Apple has shown, a company with those attributes is only a management change and an idea away from resurgance.

    If anything, I'd say your incredulity at the idea that another company could replicate Apple's turnaround is what's arrogant.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    what has RIM innovated in the last 2 years? Just help me understand.....
    06-19-11 11:06 AM
  19. i7guy's Avatar
    what has RIM innovated in the last 2 years? Just help me understand.....
    I'm not sure what apple has innovated either. Improved slightly, yes. Innovated no.
    06-19-11 03:45 PM
  20. Accidental Post's Avatar
    I was asking what proven innovative capability. we could go back 5 years and no innovation. You want to back 5 years with an iPhone.

    And everyone knows that the iPhone is THE STANDARD by which all phones are compared. Nobody is rushing to build a phone that is a BB killer........
    06-19-11 04:55 PM
  21. Accidental Post's Avatar
    Or lets do this since 2007 what has RIM innovated? Anyone? Anyone?
    06-19-11 04:59 PM
  22. Accidental Post's Avatar
    And I cleared up this whole argument earlier.
    RIM started in the Enterprise and did extremely well. Then they decided to try the consumer market and well let's say not so good.

    Apple and Google did the opposite and started in the consumer world knowing damn well people would bring them into the enterprise. And they both are doing well on both fronts.

    RIM missed the bus and should have made a consumer device that was a great device but the FAILURE we all called the storm was just that a huge failure. All we heard was iPhone killer......what a joke of a device I know I went through plenty of them......heck I waited in line to get one on release day. So enjoy your micro screen, truncated emails and a stale OS that all they do is tweak and enhance and tweak some more. No innovation at all. iOS come out of the box and has been a hit since 2007 and Apple is on a roll. Google's strategy seems to be to the flood the market across multiple hardware platforms and it's working for them.

    I have owned multiple Blackberries, Multiple Android Devices and 2 iPhones. IN MY OPINION I will NEVER go back to a Blackberry I don't care if they came out with a device that can read your mind......
    QNX laughable.......cling to it BB fans while Google and Apple continue to dominate.
    06-19-11 05:08 PM
  23. Caesar1844's Avatar
    what has RIM innovated in the last 2 years? Just help me understand.....
    Who said anything about the last two years?

    We're talking about a comparison with Apple. It had been much longer than two years between drinks when they turned it around.

    Apple and Google did the opposite and started in the consumer world knowing damn well people would bring them into the enterprise. And they both are doing well on both fronts.
    That's great, but as long as they continuing making consumer devices they will be sub-optimal business machines.

    The only reason iPhones and Androids have any sort of enterprise capability at all is because they have emulated RIM, who have always set the benchmark for that market. RIM may not have come up with anything much new in the last 2 years, but Apple and Google haven't come up with anything much new for enterprise... well, ever. Every single killer app for the enterprise smartphone has been developed by someone else, they've just done really well at copying them.

    If RIM disappears then enterprise smartphone capability will suffer even more, because we will be left with a choice of consumer devices made by companies who have no interest in enterprise innovation.
    Last edited by Caesar1844; 06-19-11 at 05:53 PM.
    06-19-11 05:35 PM
  24. Accidental Post's Avatar
    Then why is EVERY phone compared to an Iphone????

    And how is my iPhone sub optimal in my enterprise compared to a BB? Please explain that to my CEO, CIO, COO, Director and about everyone else that owns one at work and have given back their BB. And just for the record I work for a 20k people plus employer, I went to the BB admin's office and saw a pile of BB's. And just for the record a very LARGE medical vendor gave us a presentation and they were pulling data from Waterloo, I said oh RIM's headquarters they were like yeah we are in the same building and RIM employees are beating down their doors asking for jobs.

    And how did Apple and Google emulate RIM? I want you to break that one down. Because at no time does my phone touch BES. I will give you PUSH mail and that is all.

    Now RIM emulating Apple yes. Storm and they failed horribly. Torch (touch screen).

    No need for apple and google to reinvent the enterprise waste of money. Just push RIM out easy enough.
    Look at the numbers there are more consumers than companies. COmpanies used to take a hard stand against any phone but the BB.

    Well that was years ago Androids and iPhones are invading the enterprise and RIM is too ignorant to see whats happening. Look at the market share. Those numbers don't lie. I will stand behind those numbers any day.

    RIM has no choice but to turn it around immediately. Their leadership is horrible and has no vision of the future. QNX are you kidding me? By the time it matures it will be old and stale just like 45. 5.0 6.0 6.1 oops I mean 7.0 what a joke of an OS stale and more than mature ancient.

    Maybe when RIM release 10.1 it might be good but, when you slap it into crap hardware well,,,,,,enough said.

    When people start talking about the next BB killer I will personally apologize to each of you. Until then the iPhone is the standard by which all phones are compared.
    06-19-11 06:55 PM
  25. Caesar1844's Avatar
    Then why is EVERY phone compared to an Iphone????
    Because it's the benchmark for smartphones.

    It's not the benchmark for enterprise capability.

    And how is my iPhone sub optimal in my enterprise compared to a BB?
    I've explained in this thread, numerous times. In virtually every single core enterprise function, the iPhone is no better than the BB and in most cases it's markedly inferior.

    Don't get me wrong, it is a very good and very usable business machine, and the other 'lifestyle' functions make it a very attractive alternative. But it is simply not the best by any stretch of the imagination.

    And how did Apple and Google emulate RIM? I want you to break that one down. Because at no time does my phone touch BES. I will give you PUSH mail and that is all.
    I am just saying, Apple and Google played catchup on business functions for smartphones. None of the innovative, killer smartphone apps from a business perspective have come out of either company. The killer iOS and Android functions revolve around the lifestyle market.

    In the last couple of years, with RIM ceasing to effectively set the agenda, enterprise innovation has stagnated. If RIM ceases to exist, and we're dumped with an industry dominated by companies targeting the lifestyle consumer, that situation is just going to get worse.

    Well that was years ago Androids and iPhones are invading the enterprise and RIM is too ignorant to see whats happening. Look at the market share. Those numbers don't lie. I will stand behind those numbers any day.
    You are missing my point with admirable consistency. Again, I am not arguing that RIM are currently doing a good job. I am not arguing that Apple and Google will not eventually catch up completely to RIM in terms of enterprise services, and that when they do so they won't force RIM out of the market. If RIM continues along their current path, those things will probably happen.

    I am merely making the point that Apple and RIM are not interested in developing innovative business-oriented smartphones. Their interest in the enterprise side of devices only extends as far as keeping up with the market, while they focus on lifestyle-driven innovation. That is not good for the future development of the enterprise smartphone.

    When people start talking about the next BB killer I will personally apologize to each of you. Until then the iPhone is the standard by which all phones are compared.
    Not from an enterprise perspective. Sorry.
    Last edited by Caesar1844; 06-19-11 at 07:46 PM.
    06-19-11 07:39 PM
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