06-23-11 02:18 PM
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tools
  1. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    I don't know when you got your first mobile phone but I got mine in late '90s, just like with that alcatel I had back then, the phone function on my blackberry is a core function not an app, it a primary function that precedes any other function.

    Sure you need 200 apps, you need about 5 just to make your browser similar to blackberry browser, slower yes, but at least it's all in one place.

    Now ask yourself, how many of those 200 apps you really need and how many you're not using at all? And why do you needa TV guide or Wiki app when you're browser is so fast?

    By the way, what makes you think blackberry doesn't have apps for the tasks you described?
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I've had a cellphone since 1989. My first one was a Motorola Dynatac, for which I paid $1500.00 for. I replaced that with the Motorola MicroTac a couple of years later. Then came StarTac. Then I had a bunch of Nokias, a couple of Samsungs. Got my first BB in 2006, had one until 2008, with the 9000 being the last one I had.

    Back when you had an alcatel, your phone was a dedicated device. Similar to a standard landline phone. The phone on a smartphone is more similar to having Skype on your computer. See the difference? One is dedicated to once function, the other is not, and is a part of a rich ecosystem of apps that create the whole smartphone experience. A similar comparison can be made between a calculator and the calculator app on your computer.

    As for the 200 apps.... I don't "need" any of them. I don't even "need" a cell phone. I don't need the IMDb app or the Wiki app, the browser works fine for both sites. It's faster and easier to use the apps though. Single tap as opposed to 2-3 taps, and the apps have additional features. There is something to be said for convenience.

    There's also something to be said about "fun." I like to have fun. I like it a LOT. I hate being bored. I love games. I've had Gameboys since they first came out and I always get the latest one. iPhone games are just as good. I also like music. I don't mean just listen to it either. I have apps that let me compose and play music.

    Again, I don't "need" 5 browsers. I just happen to have them. They each have a different look to them and as I described it earlier, they're like skins for Safari. Sometimes I prefer the colors or layout of one over the other.

    When all is said and done, it's not the "need" things that are important in life. It's the "want" things. What you "need" is food, water, air, and shelter. You want a cool car, you want a PS3, you want a hot girlfriend (or boyfriend depending on gender or preference. Sure you might die without the "needs," but who in a first world society works for those? You can work at McDonald's and make enough money for "needs." You work hard for your wants. Think about that for a moment.
    06-15-11 05:00 PM
  2. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Its not readily apparent to me which device is better. I don't buy electronics based on the stock price of the manufacturer.
    You're obviously not an objective buyer. As for stock price. I never said anybody buys anything regarding the stock price. My comment was about the companies.
    06-15-11 05:04 PM
  3. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    I still am getting used to the theres an app for that mentality. I opened a PDF in the safari browser and I couldn't figure out how to save the PDF, just another small annoyance.
    PDF saves automatically iBooks.
    06-15-11 05:05 PM
  4. avt123's Avatar
    I agree with him and I don't think he has been taciturn at all. Having had iPad 2 for a while mobile safari has its own sets of issues. It certainly beats my os5 browser, but I'm not sure it beats android or os6.
    I am not talking about the browser in general. I am talking about every single debate he is in that has to do with Android or iOS. It is the same exact story every single time.
    06-15-11 05:06 PM
  5. avt123's Avatar
    Oh lord. Everything on a CPU runs as a program under some process under some thread. On bb core services are not called apps, although one can call anything anything.
    They are applications. I am not going to argue this anymore. They are native apps and that is it. Applications can count as core services if they are native.

    Why is it that now people are saying native BB apps aren't apps, but when the whole app craze happened, people were arguing that BBs already come with apps (the native ones)?
    06-15-11 05:08 PM
  6. avt123's Avatar
    I suggest you make a list of what iphone browser can do and what the OS6 browser can do, I have a feeling the iphone list is gonna be a short one.
    I really do not care what either browser can do. I am not arguing features here. I'm sure the BB browser has more features, and that is great. I honestly don't care. As of right now, it is not on a device powerful enough to take advantage of the browser. I'm sure the new devices will be up to par on browsing speed. Although, there are videos of the PB browser loading things slower than the iPad 2.

    Besides flash, OS6 has a complete browsing experience a similar to a desktop experience weather you like to admit it or not.
    Having to install 5 apps to get your browser to do something that it should do as standard is not acceptable in my eyes.
    Some people see everything as an app it appears, I wonder what happened to "software" "program" even "freeware", been wiped out of the vocabulary apparently.

    Apple really does have a way of brainwashing people.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I'm not brainwashed by Apple. I've been running apps on my smartphones before the iPhone existed.

    I know the iPhone browser is limited. I never claimed it to be the best, I just said it was currently faster (mostly do to hardware).
    06-15-11 05:12 PM
  7. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Explain this then, I go to BIS site and set up an email account, the service book gets sent to my blackberry and a mail icon appears for that email account. I can then co to service books in options and delete both service books for it(calendar and mail) and the mail icon disappears from my phone. Doesn't sound like an app to me.

    Anyway, to me there's a big difference between apps that you download from an appstore and software that comes built into the OS.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    Wow. Let me explain this to you. Icon <> app.

    On a computer, any computer, there are a couple of levels of software. Software is there it interact with hardware. At the most basic level is the BIOS, which allows you to interact with hardware at the most basic level. This is stuff like I/O functions like moving data from the memory to the CPU, or connecting your speaker to the appropriate hardware controller.

    Then comes OS, which is a layer on top of BIOS to let you communicate more easily with the BIOS. So far, it goes like this, OS gives instructions to the BIOS which tells the hardware what to do.

    Finally is the application layer. This is what we calls apps. Apps give instructions to the OS, which in turn gives instructions to the BIOS, which in turn gives instructions to the hardware, like the CPU and the memory, and the UMTS radio.

    Simply because an app is packaged with the OS, that doesn't mean it's not an app. For example, there is a calculator app included with my Windows 7. I don't think anybody would say that the calculator app is part of the OS or part of the BIOS. Windows 7 also includes a mail app, appropriately called Windows Mail. I guess you might argue that this is part of the OS. I would say it's not. In the same way, the mail app on your BB is an app. It's not a part of the OS. The fact you can remove it and still do other stuff proves that it's an app. If you remove a core OS function, your BB won't work. You'll have a brick.

    I hope that's simple enough for you to understand, because I'm not sure I can make it any simpler.
    06-15-11 05:17 PM
  8. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I really do not care what either browser can do. I am not arguing features here. I'm sure the BB browser has more features, and that is great. I honestly don't care. As of right now, it is not on a device powerful enough to take advantage of the browser. I'm sure the new devices will be up to par on browsing speed. Although, there are videos of the PB browser loading things slower than the iPad 2.



    I'm not brainwashed by Apple. I've been running apps on my smartphones before the iPhone existed.

    I know the iPhone browser is limited. I never claimed it to be the best, I just said it was currently faster (mostly do to hardware).
    If the ipad browser is the same as the iphone browser then no wonder it's faster at loading something, but if you factor in the time you take to open another app to do something that the browser should do already it's not so fast anymore is it?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-15-11 05:25 PM
  9. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    If the ipad browser is the same as the iphone browser then no wonder it's faster at loading something, but if you factor in the time you take to open another app to do something that the browser should do already it's not so fast anymore is it?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Why would it take longer to open a dedicated app than opening a browser? That makes no sense. It takes just as long to tap the Safari icon as it does to tap the icon for a dedicated app. Also, there's no need to insert an address, which means less tapping. Furthermore, dedicated apps have additional features. For example, there's a Google Search app. The Google Search app lets you simply talk into the phone to perform searches. There's also a Google Translate app, which also lets you talk to do translations instead of typing. This is 100X more convenient than actually typing something to get a translation, furthermore, it speaks the translation through the speaker. This is great for travel to a place that speaks a foreign language. If you want to say something, you say what you want to say, and the app says it in the foreign language. See what I'm getting at? The dedicated apps have additional features.

    Please explain to me why you think it takes longer to open the Google Search app, which is just one tap, than it is to open Safari, then either type in Google.com or tap a shortcut.
    Last edited by Roo Zilla; 06-15-11 at 05:37 PM.
    06-15-11 05:33 PM
  10. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Why would it take longer to open a dedicated app than opening a browser? That makes no sense. It takes just as long to tap the Safari icon as it does to tap the icon for a dedicated app. Also, there's no need to insert an address, which means less tapping. Furthermore, dedicated apps have additional features. For example, there's a Google Search app. The Google Search app lets you simply talk into the phone to perform searches. There's also a Google Translate app, which also lets you talk to do translations instead of typing. This is 100X more convenient than actually typing something to get a translation, furthermore, it speaks the translation through the speaker. This is great for travel to a place that speaks a foreign language. If you want to say something, you say what you want to say, and the app says it in the foreign language. See what I'm getting at? The dedicated apps have additional features.

    Please explain to me why you think it takes longer to open the Google Search app, which is just one tap, than it is to open Safari, then either type in Google.com or tap a shortcut.
    Like I said in a post above, you surf the net and find a podcast download link that you might want to listen to. On BB browser you click the link and you're faced witb 2 options, open- streams it directly and download, that automatically saves it an a new dedicated folder and subfolder within the media app.
    What would you have to do on an iphone?

    It's about doing things in the browser and not having to exit the browser and start another app to complete a task that could've and should've been done in the browser.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by belfastdispatcher; 06-15-11 at 06:07 PM.
    06-15-11 05:53 PM
  11. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Like I said in a post above, you surf the net and find a podcast download link that you might want to listen to. On BB browser you click the link and you're faced witb 2 options, open- streams it directly and download, that automatically saves it an a new dedicated folder and subfolder within the media app.
    What would you have to do on an iphone?

    It's about doing things in the browser and not having to exit the browser and start another app to complete a task that could've and should've been done in the browser.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Podcasts are subscribed, they download automatically. Nothing to do but open the iPod app. If you want to subscribe to a new podcast, click the link, it'll open iTunes, then subscribe, and it'll download automatically and it'll show up in the iPod app. I wonder if you're aware that Apple invented Podcasts. AFAIK, Podcasts require iTunes.

    Sometimes Podcasts are also done in another format, like MP3 or AAC, which technically isn't a Podcast, it's just an MP3 or AAC. When you tap those, they play in Safari.
    Last edited by Roo Zilla; 06-15-11 at 06:39 PM.
    06-15-11 06:29 PM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Podcasts are subscribed, it downloads automatically. Nothing to do but open the iPod app. If you want to subscribe to a new podcast, click the link, it'll open iTunes, then subscribe, and it'll download automatically and it'll show up in the iPod app. I wonder if you're aware that Apple invented Podcasts.

    Sometimes Podcasts are done in MP3, which technically isn't a Podcast, it's just an MP3. When you tap it, it plays in Safari.
    Who said anything about subscribing? You want to download a podcast, mp3, video from a link within the browser you have to leave the browser and start another app to complete what you wanted to do, hence the slower part, it's taking you away from what you were doing.
    So you can play the MP3 or AAC in Safari, can you download them in the Itunes or something else?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-15-11 06:43 PM
  13. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Who said anything about subscribing? You want to download a podcast, mp3, video from a link within the browser you have to leave the browser and start another app to complete what you wanted to do, hence the slower part, it's taking you away from what you were doing.
    So you can play the MP3 or AAC in Safari, can you download them in the Itunes or something else?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    If you're talking Podcasts, you need iTunes. There's no way around it. Podcasts are stored on Apple servers and you can only access them via iTunes. I think you're talking about audio files, which like I said, aren't really Podcasts, they're just audio files. Audio files play in the browser.

    Video files are a bit more complex. Since there is no Flash, iPhone won't play any Flash videos. I think this limitation has been known for a while though and it's nothing new. HTML5 videos though stream fine in the browser. If you wish to download them instead, you need an app, and Safari will ask you where you which app to download it to. For example, you can download to Dropbox, which will directly upload to a Dropbox account. But honestly, what's the difference between something like that doing a whole file manager thing? Nothing meaningful.

    EDIT: I was wrong. Podcasts do exist outside of iTunes. I just never had experience with them outside of iTunes. I just tried a podcast and it just plays in Safari.

    EDIT2: You're making a mountain out of a molehill. People who use Apple stuff just subscribe to Podcasts they like. We tap the subscribe link. Do it once, after that it's good to go whenever you're ready. That's it. I'll tell you what though. You win, BB is better, iPhones suck. RIM FTW!!! Also, smartphones are not small computers, and the phone part is not an app. The phone is a phone and the email thing is not an app, it's part of the phone.
    Last edited by Roo Zilla; 06-15-11 at 06:59 PM.
    06-15-11 06:48 PM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    If you're talking Podcasts, you need iTunes. There's no way around it. Podcasts are stored on Apple servers and you can only access them via iTunes. I think you're talking about audio files, which like I said, aren't really Podcasts, they're just audio files. Audio files play in the browser.

    Video files are a bit more complex. Since there is no Flash, iPhone won't play any Flash videos. I think this limitation has been known for a while though and it's nothing new. HTML5 videos though stream fine in the browser. If you wish to download them instead, you need an app, and Safari will ask you where you which app to download it to. For example, you can download to Dropbox, which will directly upload to a Dropbox account. But honestly, what's the difference between something like that doing a whole file manager thing? Nothing meaningful.
    Take this for example, is this a podcast?

    Buzz Out Loud Podcast - CNET's 'podcast of indeterminate length' - CNET Blogs

    I download this every day, I know you can subscribe to it in itunes but there's also a download link. I also download some video podcasts the same way. Well i thought they were podcasts but i'm not sure now.

    When I download them they automatically get saved in neat folders and subfolders as in the pics attached.

    Never once do you have to leave the browser and you can download multiple files at once and still browse while they're downloading, or watch youtube etc.
    06-15-11 07:03 PM
  15. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Can iphone browser download music from sites like this one? Discovered this thanks to my 15 year old niece

    WapMusic.Org
    06-15-11 07:10 PM
  16. Accidental Post's Avatar
    wap?????? that's some serious RAZR action there.......
    06-15-11 08:54 PM
  17. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    wap?????? that's some serious RAZR action there.......
    Doesn't answer my question though, I just used that site as an example.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-16-11 01:50 AM
  18. Accidental Post's Avatar
    Ok to answer your question there is this thing called iTunes which is really quite handy to get music.
    06-16-11 06:40 AM
  19. Accidental Post's Avatar
    now let's dispell all the rumblings.

    OUT OF THE BOX none of this turning off JS and other stuff just to make browsing work. You have to admit that browsing the web on the iPhone is faster and overall a better experience. And if you say well....you sir are smoking crack.
    06-16-11 06:41 AM
  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    now let's dispell all the rumblings.

    OUT OF THE BOX none of this turning off JS and other stuff just to make browsing work. You have to admit that browsing the web on the iPhone is faster and overall a better experience. And if you say well....you sir are smoking crack.
    I already said it's faster a few times in this thread, did you even read it?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-16-11 06:47 AM
  21. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Ok to answer your question there is this thing called iTunes which is really quite handy to get music.
    You missed the point, I was asking if the iphone is capable of downloading from links within a browser, be it a short news video, music, radio show recording, files etc, I was looking to find out if the capability exists witin the iphone browser, I don't have one so I don't know, you tell me.

    I posted that site as an example of donload links for iphones owners to try.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by belfastdispatcher; 06-16-11 at 06:52 AM.
    06-16-11 06:50 AM
  22. i7guy's Avatar
    You're obviously not an objective buyer. As for stock price. I never said anybody buys anything regarding the stock price. My comment was about the companies.
    Sure I'm objective, if I wasn't I would have bought the playbook or zoom. You may not have said anything directly about stock rice but you sure as heck insinuated it.
    06-16-11 08:18 AM
  23. i7guy's Avatar
    PDF saves automatically iBooks.
    So if I load iBooks it will save automatically?
    06-16-11 08:19 AM
  24. i7guy's Avatar
    I suggest you make a list of what iphone browser can do and what the OS6 browser can do, I have a feeling the iphone list is gonna be a short one.
    Besides flash, OS6 has a complete browsing experience a similar to a desktop experience weather you like to admit it or not.
    Having to install 5 apps to get your browser to do something that it should do as standard is not acceptable in my eyes.
    Some people see everything as an app it appears, I wonder what happened to "software" "program" even "freeware", been wiped out of the vocabulary apparently.

    Apple really does have a way of brainwashing people.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I am usually right there with you in the conversation. Ignoring the there's an app for that mentality, there are some really cool apps out there, or if you prefer, freeware, programs, add ons etc. Due to the popularity apple seems to get the first shot at apps unless it's for a specific market.

    That safari does not support the file upload or download buttons or flash found on 98% of websites is a big minus in my opinion, and the reason that so many apps are needed.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    06-16-11 09:01 AM
  25. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I am usually right there with you in the conversation. Ignoring the there's an app for that mentality, there are some really cool apps out there, or if you prefer, freeware, programs, add ons etc. Due to the popularity apple seems to get the first shot at apps unless it's for a specific market.

    That safari does not support the file upload or download buttons or flash found on 98% of websites is a big minus in my opinion, and the reason that so many apps are needed.
    Oh I know, that's why I would consider an ipad, for educational apps for the kids.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-16-11 09:16 AM
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