10-27-09 08:58 AM
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  1. Soco_Jon's Avatar
    Here's a link to an article on Cnet..what do you think?? it might be irrelevant to some but..its news nonetheless..enjoy!




    Verizon has iPhone envy | Signal Strength - CNET News
    10-26-09 05:43 PM
  2. Champer's Avatar
    cnet is HARDLY the most unbiased observer on the issue.
    10-26-09 05:48 PM
  3. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    cnet is HARDLY the most unbiased observer on the issue.
    Yes, but they are less biased than some outlets.

    Yes, there is some envy there. Verizon Communications just reported a 30% drop in revenue & blamed much of it on their wireless unit's (VZW) plummeting BlackBerry sales & the iPhone.

    It is no secret that churn is up at Big Red & profits are way off.

    But that looks to change in the next few months.

    Will read that article later. Should be interesting.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-26-09 06:00 PM
  4. gotblackberry's Avatar
    I don't know. Would Verizon like to have the iPhone? Sure. Would Verizon bend over like AT&T did to get the iPhone? No. Verizon churn may be slightly higher than usual, but we still have the higest revenue per user and the biggest customer base. Adding negative profit customers doesn't do much to a business.
    10-26-09 06:03 PM
  5. lastraid's Avatar
    VZW has Droid - Still wants iPhone
    10-26-09 06:05 PM
  6. Soco_Jon's Avatar
    VZW has Droid - Still wants iPhone
    good article
    10-26-09 06:22 PM
  7. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    I don't know. Would Verizon like to have the iPhone? Sure. Would Verizon bend over like AT&T did to get the iPhone? No. Verizon churn may be slightly higher than usual, but we still have the higest revenue per user and the biggest customer base. Adding negative profit customers doesn't do much to a business.
    You do know don't you that carriers pays RIM well over five times the monthly amount per device that AT&T pays Apple, right?

    Each iPhone line is far more profitable than any BlackBerry line - a big reason AT&T doesn't push BlackBerrys.

    People are leaving for the iPhone because, quite frankly, VZW's phone lineup has previously sucked. Even with Droid, there will be many who will leave for the iPhone. Why? Because iPhone users don't care about all of the things WM or Android can do. BlackBerry is corporate & therefore something to shun - besides being unable to perform as well as iPhone. The typical iPhone user is young, affluent & trendy. The typical BlackBerry user is old, stuffy & possibly an attorney - again, nothing a young person probably wants to be associated with.

    Moms & kids want iPhone & are not really smartphone types. Dads want iPhone because they are feeling old & can't afford a Corvette. These are people who wouldn't look at a smartphone, if not for iPhone. The iPhone has what it takes to lure people away from $40 VZW voice plans & into $70 AT&T iPhone plans.

    iPhones are easy - the smartphone for the non-smartphone type of person. They look cool, they work cool & they are uncomplicated as cool things should be.

    AT&T pinned its smartphone lineup to iPhone, while VZW pinned theirs to Storm. Its a wonder VZW is still around after that - and supposed "iPhone Beaters" like Dare, enV, Storm & others - all half-baked imitations.

    Step away from the VZW/RIM hype/rumors/lies & see the real picture. The iPhone's biggest flaw is it has a capacitive screen - ladies can't use it with their long nails & you must remove your gloves in cold weather to answer the phone.

    The issue with iPhone had nothing to do with cost - it had everything to do with Apple wanting to handle the phone & a carrier who prefers to do things themselves.

    The iPhone is a big profit center for AT&T.

    I did get to look at that article - nothing biased about it. They simply point out the facts and, frankly, some of the recent ad campaigns do make it look like VZW is desperate. With a 30% drop in profit, I can see why.
    10-26-09 06:49 PM
  8. Wireless Vet's Avatar
    Verizon Communications just reported a 30% drop in revenue & blamed much of it on their wireless unit's (VZW) plummeting BlackBerry sales & the iPhone.

    It is no secret that churn is up at Big Red & profits are way off.
    That's strange, because Verizon Communications and Verizon Wireless are two different companies, and the iPhone and any other wireless device should have no impact on Verizon Communications operations.
    10-26-09 07:18 PM
  9. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    That's strange, because Verizon Communications and Verizon Wireless are two different companies, and the iPhone and any other wireless device should have no impact on Verizon Communications operations.
    VZW is a jointly-owned subsidiary of Verizon Communications & Vodaphone, both publicly traded companies. As such, VZW does impact VZComm & their costs & revenues are indeed listed in VZComm's annual report.

    If you were the principal in a LLC that was losing money, it would affect your bottom line, too.

    Nothing strange about it.

    But what do I know? According to you, I am one of about a dozen personalities here. Then again, all that proves is you don't know much.
    10-26-09 07:42 PM
  10. TrendyProfessional1's Avatar
    They also need to come up with competitive pricing. Make people feel they are getting real value. Like AT&T with their 10 friends or whatever and rollover minutes.
    I know it was another thread but VZ needs to get off it's high horse on that as well. The average user won't care about LTE.................
    Only the tech freaks will care about that
    10-26-09 07:58 PM
  11. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    For Wireless Vet & his obvious lack of understanding of not only telco, but of business...

    Dividend Stocks Ė The Dividend Daily Ľ Blog Archive Ľ Verizonís Q3 Profit Falls 30% on Items, Adjusted Results Beat View (VZ)

    Verizon Profit Drops 30% Amid Charges; Wireless Trails AT&T - WSJ.com

    Verizon profit falls 30 pct on higher costs - Earnings- msnbc.com

    Verizon profit falls 30 pct on restructuring costs - BusinessWeek

    Each article mentions VZW plus iPhone and/or AT&T - interesting that AT&T outpaced VZW by 800,000 new customers on the back of iPhone - but oh my, VZW doesn't play into the fortunes of VZComm, according to our resident conspiracy theorist.
    10-26-09 08:11 PM
  12. lastraid's Avatar
    They also need to come up with competitive pricing. Make people feel they are getting real value. Like AT&T with their 10 friends or whatever and rollover minutes.
    I know it was another thread but VZ needs to get off it's high horse on that as well. The average user won't care about LTE.................
    Only the tech freaks will care about that
    Cool VZW will offer roller worthless minutes, cut their 3G by 5X, and roll out LTE at the same time as ATT. This will cut cost and then VZW can cut their rates just enough to beat all other carriers by $5 per month.

    Buttom line more people out of work, less coverage for VZW customers. OH yes forget the costs cuts as MORE Roaming agreements will be needed.

    Oops Does any of that palaber make scense?

    You are very correct about LTE right now. That is until common user sees LTE in action
    10-26-09 08:27 PM
  13. SilverLight98's Avatar
    Quick question about a 4G iphone - If Apple were to make a LTE phone for Verizon, wouldn't they HAVE to develop the CDMA tech for the iphone (what happens when the verizon iphone loses 4G coverage?... it'll have to rely on 3G/2G CDMA tech right?) + Verizon will still be using CDMA for voice while LTE will be used for data. So why are all of these rumors that Apple has to wait for verizon to launch 4G when there going to have to use CDMA anyways?
    10-26-09 08:31 PM
  14. lastraid's Avatar
    Quick question about a 4G iphone - If Apple were to make a LTE phone for Verizon, wouldn't they HAVE to develop the CDMA tech for the iphone (what happens when the verizon iphone loses 4G coverage?... it'll have to rely on 3G/2G CDMA tech right?) + Verizon will still be using CDMA for voice while LTE will be used for data. So why are all of these rumors that Apple has to wait for verizon to launch 4G when there going to have to use CDMA anyways?
    From what I heard is that iPhone has to ping the network all the time. This causes a huge drag on network. I am sure there is more to it, but this simple answer.
    10-26-09 08:36 PM
  15. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Does any of that palaber make scense?
    It might, if I could figure out the meaning of "palaber."

    My dictionary is sketchy on "scense" too.

    By the way - iPhone doesn't have to constantly ping the network - that is more along the lines of something BlackBerry does.
    10-26-09 08:43 PM
  16. lastraid's Avatar
    It might, if I could figure out the meaning of "palaber."

    My dictionary is sketchy on "scense" too.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    NOt even sure it is word. It was a word used by some DJ's I use to listen to. I guess a good definition would be non-sence
    10-26-09 08:45 PM
  17. gotblackberry's Avatar
    You do know don't you that carriers pays RIM well over five times the monthly amount per device that AT&T pays Apple, right?

    Each iPhone line is far more profitable than any BlackBerry line - a big reason AT&T doesn't push BlackBerrys.

    People are leaving for the iPhone because, quite frankly, VZW's phone lineup has previously sucked. Even with Droid, there will be many who will leave for the iPhone. Why? Because iPhone users don't care about all of the things WM or Android can do. BlackBerry is corporate & therefore something to shun - besides being unable to perform as well as iPhone. The typical iPhone user is young, affluent & trendy. The typical BlackBerry user is old, stuffy & possibly an attorney - again, nothing a young person probably wants to be associated with.

    Moms & kids want iPhone & are not really smartphone types. Dads want iPhone because they are feeling old & can't afford a Corvette. These are people who wouldn't look at a smartphone, if not for iPhone. The iPhone has what it takes to lure people away from $40 VZW voice plans & into $70 AT&T iPhone plans.

    iPhones are easy - the smartphone for the non-smartphone type of person. They look cool, they work cool & they are uncomplicated as cool things should be.

    AT&T pinned its smartphone lineup to iPhone, while VZW pinned theirs to Storm. Its a wonder VZW is still around after that - and supposed "iPhone Beaters" like Dare, enV, Storm & others - all half-baked imitations.

    Step away from the VZW/RIM hype/rumors/lies & see the real picture. The iPhone's biggest flaw is it has a capacitive screen - ladies can't use it with their long nails & you must remove your gloves in cold weather to answer the phone.

    The issue with iPhone had nothing to do with cost - it had everything to do with Apple wanting to handle the phone & a carrier who prefers to do things themselves.

    The iPhone is a big profit center for AT&T.

    I did get to look at that article - nothing biased about it. They simply point out the facts and, frankly, some of the recent ad campaigns do make it look like VZW is desperate. With a 30% drop in profit, I can see why.
    I did not know that regarding RIM. I do know that RIM allows us do to tech support for their products, allows us to exchange the phones, allows its users to add insurance and allows Verizon to brand the equipment. AT&T did not want to do that.
    10-26-09 08:47 PM
  18. douglaswilson's Avatar
    I prefered the article in the new york times for once- ATT needs the iphone more than Verizon does.
    10-26-09 09:26 PM
  19. Polychrome's Avatar
    AT&T did not want to do that.
    I don't know if it's so much they didn't want to do it, as much as Apple wouldn't let them.

    AT&T puts up with a lot to keep the iPhone on their network. More power to 'em, IMO.

    Honestly, I think the landline guys are looking for an easy scapegoat for their own troubles. I don't personally know the full story, but apparently things are run VERY differently over there. And although churn is always a problem any cell company wants to conquer, they're not considering other issues such as Alltel customers who didn't want the involuntary switch, whether or not it was good for them (which, all things considered, is understandable). Also, consider that upgrading towers for LTE and upgrading Alltel's equipment is a huge money sink. This is something we won't see returns on AT LEAST until LTE is launched and fully available at a consumer level. Blaming the iPhone for anything other than iPhone sales is a cop out.
    Last edited by Polychrome; 10-26-09 at 09:36 PM.
    10-26-09 09:30 PM
  20. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    I did not know that regarding RIM. I do know that RIM allows us do to tech support for their products, allows us to exchange the phones, allows its users to add insurance and allows Verizon to brand the equipment. AT&T did not want to do that.
    Yes, but RIM provides the proxy for the BlackBerry to operate, while Apple only provides tech support.

    If you look at it, Apple could go out of business tomorrow & millions of iPhones would still be functional. A few years ago, because of a myriad of patent infringements, BlackBerrys were within days of being worthless, because had RIM not come to licensing terms, they would have been forced to shut down their servers & the devices would have ceased to function.

    Anyone who values their independence, their privacy & fair play should run from any BlackBerry product - RIM has been found guilty of infringing on patents in many instances, including some not so well known cases. These devices cannot function, regardless of carrier, without every bit of data running through their systems. If they have no issue stealing intellectual property, why would they have any loyalty to you?

    Apple gets an estimated $2-$3 per month per iPhone to provide customer care. Who do you think would be more expert on iPhone issues, Apple or AT&T? Same thing goes for VZW & any device.

    RIM gets about half of the data money you pay.

    I am not crapping on reps or carrier customer service on this - simply stating fact. How many different phones does a VZW rep have to answer questions for? How many different device questions does an AT&T rep have to respond to? An iPhone rep, whether in-house or outsourced, answers questions on iPhone only. Same thing for RIM techs - they don't answer LG, HTC, WM, Android or Palm questions - only BlackBerry.

    Jack of all trades, master of none, basically. Because of this, iPhone customers will generally get better device-specific tech support than will VZW BlackBerry users or T-Mobile G1 users or Sprint Pre users.

    Apple doesn't run proxies that iPhones need to run on. When AT&T BlackBerrys fail, due to RIM connectivity issues, iPhones are still online. The only thing that brings down iPhone connectivity is AT&T network issues - which would affect all AT&T phones.

    There are people who still ignorantly think their BlackBerry is more secure than other phones - but RIM maintains records going back years & all it would take is a subpoena or one hacker... Apple can tell what song you bought. Microsoft knows what version of Windows you're running. Palm knows what device you have. Google, on the other hand, knows when you pass gas.

    And you're relying on Canadian law to protect you - the same government censoring speech. Right.


    Even with the cheesy VZW BOGOs & such, AT&T is adding iPhone customers at a clip that rivals VZW's total smartphone growth. I am sure VZW would really like to have all those customers lost to iPhone. In the last quarter alone, 800,000 difference - multiply by $70/month over a 24 month contract & you can see the effect on the bottom line.

    And, at 800,000/quarter, it will only take AT&T about 10 quarters to catch VZW. That is 2.5 years. Will this continue? I doubt it, but without iPhone or something that beats it, in the minds of consumers, VZW doesn't stand a chance. VZW's gains are primarily from Sprint, T-Mobile & Alltel acquisitions. AT&T's advances are coming from those carriers PLUS VZW. We can chat all day about VZW churn percentages & AT&T network issues, but the fact is, iPhone churn makes VZW's churn look like a mass exodus.

    iPhone is the 800-pound gorilla. Without it, VZW is the kid peeking though the fence boards & VZW's allegiance to BlackBerry is only hurting VZW.

    I can't help but wonder where Apple's counter to the Droid ad campaign is at. Maybe they don't need one, because as I have seen today, the Moto version of Droid isn't a threat, anymore than Pre was.

    Apple wants VZW, while VZW needs iPhone.
    10-26-09 10:01 PM
  21. Polychrome's Avatar
    while VZW needs iPhone.
    Have to disagree with you on that one. We're going to be around, one way or another, iPhone or no iPhone.

    On the other hand, if AT&T somehow *lost* the iPhone or exclusivity, a lot of those customers would jump ship as if they were on the Titanic. It's not so much that we need the iPhone so much as AT&T does. It's a neat gadget and a notable snob device, making people willing to (somewhat) overlook coverage, which AT&T desperately depends on right now.

    If any Apple product shows up on our network, I guarantee it'll be very different in many ways. It won't be the "iPhone" you see on TV. Not because I know anything going on with Apple. More because I know some concessions will have to be made for it to happen. And I guarantee that VZW will require the ability to do front-line support due to needing to be able to work with EVDO as a technology. (And also because I don't think the whole "send phone to apple for fix or replacement" is gonna fly with our customers. Oh, and that soldered-in-battery has got to go.)

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. AT&T has the iPhone because they're willing to deal with Apple, in more ways than profit sharing...
    10-26-09 11:12 PM
  22. Gawain's Avatar
    cnet is HARDLY the most unbiased observer on the issue.
    Indeed. Take away the iPhone from AT&T's line-up and their subscriber rate stalls.

    Apple sold nearly 6 million iPhones last quarter. A significant chunk of that from AT&T, if I had to guess, 1.5M.

    Ivan Seidenberg knows his stuff, been in the industry for a very long time. Everyone knows who Apple went to first. Verizon was not going to bet the farm.

    VZW has made consistent gains in their subscriber base, pretty impressive given the climate. AT&T owes such a circumstance to a single device. T-Mobile is making due, and Sprint is leaving so much blood on the floor that many wonder if they can pull themselves out of the brink.
    10-26-09 11:43 PM
  23. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    I guarantee it'll be very different in many ways. It won't be the "iPhone" you see on TV. Not because I know anything going on with Apple. More because I know some concessions will have to be made for it to happen. And I guarantee that VZW will require the ability to do front-line support due to needing to be able to work with EVDO as a technology.
    Wrong on these counts - let's just say I have some first hand experience with a device that says you're wrong. Picture it in black.

    VZW is moving in a direction that will take them away from device support, or reduce their role in it. Years ago, AT&T was forced to do the same thing - give up their hold on the device, yet before that, people swore it would never happen.

    As for the part about AT&T needing the iPhone, they were picking up more customers than VZW before iPhone - their overall smartphone percentage is outpacing VZW even taking iPhone out of the mix. Sprint & T-Mobile are also beating VZW in smartphone percentage - and they are doing it without iPhone.

    Besides, your argument is circular - if AT&T loses iPhone exclusivity, where will iPhone go? Do you really think VZW will let it go to T-Mobile & Sprint, further diluting their market? And, who do you think will bend first - VZW with their ever-changing ways or Apple who has never budged on supporting their own devices?

    McIntosh Audio has never allowed retailers to service their components. Neither has Ferrari or Rolls Royce - try finding an oil filter for an F430 or a Silver Ghost outside of a dealership. For over 30 years, Apple has done things their own way, with a product quality that shames most competitors - they aren't going to give that up for VZW - besides, look at how VZW bent over for RIM, in a desperate attempt for parity with iPhone.

    VZW is so afraid of losing number one status after all they've invested that I really don't see them insisting on supporting the product that could keep them in the lead. And, the latest inside statements have indicated that VZW is willing to do exactly what Apple wants just to add the iPhone to their lineup.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-26-09 11:53 PM
  24. TrendyProfessional1's Avatar
    Cool VZW will offer roller worthless minutes, cut their 3G by 5X, and roll out LTE at the same time as ATT. This will cut cost and then VZW can cut their rates just enough to beat all other carriers by $5 per month.

    Buttom line more people out of work, less coverage for VZW customers. OH yes forget the costs cuts as MORE Roaming agreements will be needed.

    Oops Does any of that palaber make scense?

    You are very correct about LTE right now. That is until common user sees LTE in action
    I get your point Last; it just seems to me AT&T is just trying to put a foot in VZ's arse right now and doing a good job of it.
    U and Twin pointed out where VZ is going and that is why I chose to stay.
    Plus they are coming out with some really cool handsets.
    Bottom line though maybe the rollovers aren't that valuable but people like
    to percieve that they are getting a batgain.
    I'm not saying drop rates but ya gotta give a dog a bone?
    But lets not hijack this thread with that this is pretty good going in the direction it is.
    Last edited by TrendyProfessional1; 10-27-09 at 12:18 AM.
    10-27-09 12:09 AM
  25. Gawain's Avatar
    Besides, your argument is circular - if AT&T loses iPhone exclusivity, where will iPhone go? Do you really think VZW will let it go to T-Mobile & Sprint, further diluting their market? And, who do you think will bend first - VZW with their ever-changing ways or Apple who has never budged on supporting their own devices?
    VZW told Apple to pound sand once. I'm certain it was not done with short-sightedness. They knew what the iPhone would be like at the onset.

    McIntosh Audio has never allowed retailers to service their components. Neither has Ferrari or Rolls Royce - try finding an oil filter for an F430 or a Silver Ghost outside of a dealership. For over 30 years, Apple has done things their own way, with a product quality that shames most competitors - they aren't going to give that up for VZW - besides, look at how VZW bent over for RIM, in a desperate attempt for parity with iPhone.
    These aren't Ferrari or Rolls Royce comparisons though (and there are third party outfits that can service such cars - tons of them). Really, did VZW bend over for RIM, or was it the other way around? VZW wanted the Storm out and ready for the holidays last year, the price one pays when you let marketing take control.

    VZW is so afraid of losing number one status after all they've invested that I really don't see them insisting on supporting the product that could keep them in the lead. And, the latest inside statements have indicated that VZW is willing to do exactly what Apple wants just to add the iPhone to their lineup.
    I hate to sound grim about this, but there are "business-buzzards" that want to know about Apple mid/long term after Steve Jobs finally retires from the company due to his health. That will be a factor in a great many decisions the company makes, and how other companies do business with it. If VZW were in the same position as Sprint your point would be stronger.

    As it is, the US market is near saturation for new-subscriber growth. Sprint hasn't had a positive subscriber quarter since 2Q07. T-Mobile is betting on an added variable of lower monthly costs with no contract. AT&T has a year to enjoy its time in the sun with the iPhone exclusively. VZW is most certainly working with Apple to some degree, but you won't see all the eggs in one basket. So, what's next? Sprint doesn't seem to be pulling in too much success with WiMAX and VZW is simply too methodical. By many indications, it appears VZW will roll out LTE for prime time sometime next year (which isn't too far off). That alone could make a wave no so dependent on one device.

    just my .02....
    10-27-09 12:53 AM
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