[Polychrome]

Wrong on these counts - let's just say I have some first hand experience with a device that says you're wrong. Picture it in black.

Well, honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about unless it's a cute hint at a certain Android device.

That said, we do still need to be the first one the customer talks to. Let's just say that if something's wrong on the internet connection side of things, for a few specific reasons, Apple can complain all they want, but they won't be able to do squat.

It's kinda like the netbooks. We don't really service them, beyond helping with VZAccess Manager updates and making sure Windows is configured correctly. Beyond that, it goes straight to HP or Gateway or Acer or whoever. However, if something's wrong on our end that needs to be reprovisioned or reset (other tech reps will know what I speak of) then that's our business, and should NOT be in the hands of a 3rd party. No questions asked.

[TwinsX2Dad]

VZW told Apple to pound sand once. I'm certain it was not done with short-sightedness. They knew what the iPhone would be like at the onset.

Unsubstantiated rumor, much like the AT&T iPhone exclusive timetable.

These aren't Ferrari or Rolls Royce comparisons though (and there are third party outfits that can service such cars - tons of them).

And watch your warranty go out the window - besides, with a dearth of consumable parts - Hastings & Wix list filters, but try to get them. I know - I had a Ferrari 348 & have relatives in the auto parts/repair business, including GM execs - wasn't happening. No Jiffy Lube for me.

Really, did VZW bend over for RIM, or was it the other way around? VZW wanted the Storm out and ready for the holidays last year, the price one pays when you let marketing take control.

It was some of both, actually - look at the VZW smartphone lineup until recently. Most of the good ones were on other carriers, while VZW devoted as much as half their lineup to BlackBerry. You can be assured that won't be happening again soon.

I hate to sound grim about this, but there are "business-buzzards" that want to know about Apple mid/long term after Steve Jobs finally retires from the company due to his health. That will be a factor in a great many decisions the company makes, and how other companies do business with it. If VZW were in the same position as Sprint your point would be stronger.

Maybe, but maybe not. Jobs is a driving force, but who is to say he will fully relinquish the helm like he did before? Giving up day to day & giving up control are two different things in the corporate world.

As it is, the US market is near saturation for new-subscriber growth. Sprint hasn't had a positive subscriber quarter since 2Q07. T-Mobile is betting on an added variable of lower monthly costs with no contract. AT&T has a year to enjoy its time in the sun with the iPhone exclusively. VZW is most certainly working with Apple to some degree, but you won't see all the eggs in one basket. So, what's next? Sprint doesn't seem to be pulling in too much success with WiMAX and VZW is simply too methodical. By many indications, it appears VZW will roll out LTE for prime time sometime next year (which isn't too far off). That alone could make a wave no so dependent on one device.

just my .02....

Your .02 is very valid, as usual. Saturation levels won't be going much higher (unless they finally get their way & open the borders), so the growth is in data. Smartphones are still under 13% - what better way for VZW to improve that than to capture the iPhone crowd? Remember that iPhone cannibalizes regular phones at a far greater rate than it does other smartphones.

And one thing that hasn't been mentioned - what do all corporations work toward? Don't say profit, even though that is a sub-factor. It is market valuation. Share price times shares outstanding. The Droid news brought a temporary blip in VZComm stock price, but it evened out pretty quickly, because the product isn't proven & the market remembers Pre. Throw iPhone in the mix, especially with a strong non-Apple lineup and you will see substantial gains.

VZComm is looking for that additional market capitalization as the rumors have been brewing again of a VZComm buyout of Voda's share & possibly even Voda itself. What better way than to offer the one phone that has a shot of outselling all others - the one phone that has ranked at the top or near it, all while on a single carrier with an immature network?

There are too many CDMA testers & prototypes (real iPhones, even - not "lites" as Poly alluded to) floating around for the iPhone to be written off.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Polychrome]

There are too many CDMA testers & prototypes (real iPhones, even - not "lites" as Poly alluded to) floating around for the iPhone to be written off.

I'm not alluding to anything honestly. I've heard of the "lite" rumor, but that's rumor as far as I'm concerned.

I struggled with myself how to explain this... Which is really what I've been trying to do all night.

I know you're pretty well versed on the industry, Twins, so please try to understand me on this.

A properly programmed and configured phone, including a tester, will work every time, no questions asked, as long as it is activated correctly. There is no issue at all here.

However, if something happens (rare enough that most customers won't know about it, but common enough for us techs) to the internet connection, or if the phone is activated improperly (user error, usually if the previous phone is turned on while the new phone is activated), there are things switch level, some proprietary, that we have to mess with, to fix the internet connection.

They are very strict with how we mess with these things, so I can guarantee they're not going to let Apple or any other manufacturer mess around with them. Heck, I'm not sure the outsourced call centers are allowed to mess with them either. They usually end up calling us for advanced stuff like this.

In a nutshell: Internally, there are things we check and need to have access to before we even consider the device to be the issue. These are NOT things they would allow a manufacturer to mess with. Therefore, it is obligatory for us to be the "front line" of support.

And really, telling Apple to "pound sand" might be a harsh way of putting it, but knowing how we run internally, it can't be too far from the truth. Apple will need to concede on a few things, tech support being one of them, before anything serious will happen. That said, maybe something is happening. They don't tell us these things, so maybe there's something going on in the back room we don't know about. If you know something you shouldn't be talking about, then maybe that magical, mystical agreement to meet halfway has already happened. We sure as heck don't know over here. It's all rumor until something actually shows up in our inventory list.

The only rumor I give any credibility to (based on my own personal speculation only) is the one that Apple is making a tablet computer of some kind for us. I give this credibility only based on the number of netbooks with internal data cards we've been putting out, and how support works between us and the manufacturers on such devices. (We still check the connection first, if that's the issue they call in about.) With that in mind, yet another mini-puter wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[Wireless Vet]

They also need to come up with competitive pricing. Make people feel they are getting real value. Like AT&T with their 10 friends or whatever and rollover minutes.

I guess you weren't aware of VZW's "Friends and Family"?

Rollover minutes are a joke, most people who port over from AT and T say it sounds appealing at first but they never end up using any of them in the first place.

[Wireless Vet]

VZW is a jointly-owned subsidiary of Verizon Communications & Vodaphone, both publicly traded companies. As such, VZW does impact VZComm & their costs & revenues are indeed listed in VZComm's annual report.

If you were the principal in a LLC that was losing money, it would affect your bottom line, too.

Nothing strange about it.

But what do I know? According to you, I am one of about a dozen personalities here. Then again, all that proves is you don't know much.

Get your story straight, I've only mentioned your other screen name, Desert Dawgssss.

[TwinsX2Dad]

Get your story straight, I've only mentioned your other screen name, Desert Dawgssss.

Get your story straight - you know nothing. Admit it.

If you actually knew anything, you'd be successful & people would listen to you.

[thinkamp]

I prefered the article in the new york times for once- ATT needs the iphone more than Verizon does.

Its not about the need of the phone its about demand.

[TwinsX2Dad]

However, if something happens (rare enough that most customers won't know about it, but common enough for us techs) to the internet connection, or if the phone is activated improperly (user error, usually if the previous phone is turned on while the new phone is activated), there are things switch level, some proprietary, that we have to mess with, to fix the internet connection.

They are very strict with how we mess with these things, so I can guarantee they're not going to let Apple or any other manufacturer mess around with them. Heck, I'm not sure the outsourced call centers are allowed to mess with them either. They usually end up calling us for advanced stuff like this. (shortened)

I now understand what you're trying to say, but allow me to mention that Apple has nothing to do with network provisioning or troubleshooting on AT&T either. Apple supports the device - if they determine it is a network issue, they involve AT&T immediately. On the flip-side, if an iPhone user is having network issues, AT&T reps fix that & determine if there is an Apple problem they need to send you to Apple for

Think of it this way - if I call my CATV or satellite provider & they determine my television is defective, they advise me to call Pioneer. If I call Pioneer with a reception issue, they first check my TV, then if all is good, they send me to my signal provider.

The Apple/AT&T setup is similar. Apple doesn't want to control the network any more than they want to control the Internet connection on your iMac - but they don't want Comcast or Time Warner or Hughes doing warranty support on it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com