07-06-09 08:53 AM
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  1. avt123's Avatar
    Maybe a stupid question, but how does the iphone compare to BB's with single handed operation?

    I play with both devices at the bestbuy and I find the iphone clumsy with one handed operation. it could be me though..maybe the experienced iphones users can let me know.
    I have absolutely no problems typing with one hand in portrait mode. Very very easy. I also do not have small fingers.
    07-04-09 08:22 PM
  2. stuaw11's Avatar
    Its not about what the iphone can't do.

    It's about cost..

    Does the iphone not use a lot more data?
    Internationally the iphone roaming would much more costly.

    Another reason I would never give my employees an iphone is because of all the potential goofing off as well. Maybe the browser is too good.
    Thats outside the scope of saying its not good at all for business
    07-04-09 08:23 PM
  3. stuaw11's Avatar
    Right! EVERYTHING...

    Support two-factor authentication? Kinda sorta, locally stored PKI certs, more or less. Smartcards/access tokens? No.

    Support in-house software? Maybe, if you want to jailbreak or if Apple approves.

    Protect its data when physically compromised? Maybe, no one is really sure how the encryption keys are managed and remote wipe is useless.

    Support for remote version controls, separation of personal/professional space, policy management, integrity checks? Um... no, what, sorta, and what?

    Support for distributed task/project management? I know, artistic Mac types aren't big into menial things like "tasks."

    I have to assume that network file shares can be accessed, all the better with permissions beyond "Everyone/World," but I've yet to find anyone that knows how to go about this... so maybe it's out there.

    This doesn't mean the iphone is dead for business, just don't be deluded into thinking that it can do anything that the BB can do.

    Don't underestimate the value of being able to email specs to your IT team for some functionality that you need, they put it together and push it out you and your teams' phones.
    Thats IT, thats not business functions of the device itself which is what the comment was made on. Skewing the issue between IT and security vs what the phone itself can do.

    Theres a huge difference between the comment made hinting the iphone is a toy, and the truth to what it can do function-wise

    Also, not ALL business is done with pentagon-like security as you mentioned- actually very little is if you looked at numbers. Id guess less than 10% of all businesses. outside government jobs, truly need or utilize that kind of security.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 07-04-09 at 08:30 PM.
    07-04-09 08:25 PM
  4. HiTekSolutions's Avatar
    Sure the iPhone is a great phone. But with ALL of the downfalls of the phone as compared to a BB such as the following:

    Non-removable battery - You are a business man who is constantly on the go, if your battery goes out your done. There is no get a new battery. Your apps saved information gone.

    Limited memory - The memory on the iPhone is internal. You run out of room (unlikely) your stuck. While the BB you can just get a new microSD and keep on going.

    Pictures - Only during the day. Unlike the BB, you can't use the flash on a iPhone because there is none. Sending MMS is out of the question with AT&T in general.

    Virtual keyboard - No everyone can use one, I have nerve damage to my fingers and can't feel a touch screen.

    Oops, your iPhone has physical damage to it - AT&T won't allow insurance to your iPhone. Why? It's to fragile.

    That list is only 5 things, but it is 5 major items.

    All of which, and more, is why I will not own an iPhone.
    07-04-09 08:31 PM
  5. zzycatch's Avatar
    Thats IT, thats not business functions of the device itself which is what the comment was made on. Skewing the issue between IT and security vs what the phone itself can do.
    I'm sorry, that is a stupid reply.

    IT supports business (and for many, many companies is business), while business needs to operate within the confines of the information policy, be it technology based or otherwise.

    And how are in-house tools or distributed task management IT exclusive?

    Also, not ALL business is done with pentagon-like security as you mentioned- actually very little is if you looked at numbers.
    First off... Blackberries are not that secure either, they have more or less the bare minimum required for any business that handles private information... which is much larger than 10%, just because a lot of companies may not know they should employ such security, doesn't mean they don't.

    Secondly, that wasn't the point, I was arguing against the statement that the iphone can do every business function that a BB can do, which is patently untrue.
    07-04-09 08:46 PM
  6. avt123's Avatar
    Oops, your iPhone has physical damage to it - AT&T won't allow insurance to your iPhone. Why? It's to fragile.
    Just insure it with Apple. You don't need AT&T for insurance.
    07-04-09 08:51 PM
  7. Duvi's Avatar
    Sure the iPhone is a great phone. But with ALL of the downfalls of the phone as compared to a BB such as the following:

    Non-removable battery - You are a business man who is constantly on the go, if your battery goes out your done. There is no get a new battery. Your apps saved information gone.

    Limited memory - The memory on the iPhone is internal. You run out of room (unlikely) your stuck. While the BB you can just get a new microSD and keep on going.

    Pictures - Only during the day. Unlike the BB, you can't use the flash on a iPhone because there is none. Sending MMS is out of the question with AT&T in general.

    Virtual keyboard - No everyone can use one, I have nerve damage to my fingers and can't feel a touch screen.

    Oops, your iPhone has physical damage to it - AT&T won't allow insurance to your iPhone. Why? It's to fragile.

    That list is only 5 things, but it is 5 major items.

    All of which, and more, is why I will not own an iPhone.
    Battery... you bring up a good point. Stop looking at the glass as being half empty! I was actually using both my BB to get somewhere important and guess what happened? My phones (BB and iPhone) fell and you can only guess what always happens... the battery popped out! Guess which phone had their battery in tact? I was close to the location and time was of the essence, so putting the battery back in and then waiting 5 minutes for it to load wasn't an option. My iPhone and Maps did very good. With turn by turn on the iPhone, I get Navigator now!

    Limited memory? Go buy a 32gb memory card and I'll buy another iPhone

    Pictures? Yeah, right. You realize the iPhone still takes better pics unless you meant pitch black! I'm sure most of the places you go to at night have lighting. I have both and my iPhone does better at night and day.

    Virtual Keyboard... hmm. So nerve damage means you can't feel the screen? So how do you feel the keys on a BlackBerry?

    Insurance... you can still get insurance through SquareTrade, your car and/or home owners insurance or even Bestbuy now. Also, how many insurance placements have you down?
    07-04-09 08:58 PM
  8. stuaw11's Avatar
    I'm sorry, that is a stupid reply.

    IT supports business (and for many, many companies is business), while business needs to operate within the confines of the information policy, be it technology based or otherwise.

    And how are in-house tools or distributed task management IT exclusive?


    First off... Blackberries are not that secure either, they have more or less the bare minimum required for any business that handles private information... which is much larger than 10%, just because a lot of companies may not know they should employ such security, doesn't mean they don't.

    Secondly, that wasn't the point, I was arguing against the statement that the iphone can do every business function that a BB can do, which is patently untrue.
    Again just because thats how YOU view business or your experience doenst make it so in 100% of the cases. How many small businesses use any of those features or security or even have funds for in house tools? Few. How many individual users (which make up to 50% of RIM's business) use that? Even less- closer to none. "Business" is not just 500+ employee companies, there are plenty of small business owners who still need to do "business"

    AGAIN, youre talking about less than 50% of of RIM's total business. There are plenty of people who have BB's because they are good qwerty devices that do email well. There are plenty of companies that are small to medium size who have BB for BES and the sharing of files and appointments, and exchange mail. And there is a huge group of individual users who have zero need for any of that.

    Many companies are set in their ways and want to use Blackberry just because, and has little to do with the features you mentioned.

    I never said there isnt a place for Blackberry but the iphone itself as a device can do everything the Blackberry can do on the phone itself that mostly any user would need to conduct business outside of high security environments.
    07-04-09 10:01 PM
  9. zzycatch's Avatar
    stuaw11... pick an argument and stick with it.

    So please do name one thing how the iphone cant be used for "business."
    You didn't say "one thing used by every business" or even "most businesses"

    Now you've changed that to "mostly any user would need to conduct business."

    I never said the iphone was a terrible device or even that I dislike it, I merely stated a number of viable business tasks that the iphone is incapable of in response to your own "dont go spreading hogwash about something you obviously dont have a clue on."
    07-04-09 10:27 PM
  10. stuaw11's Avatar
    ok be patronizing over word choice, get over yourself seriously.
    07-05-09 12:11 AM
  11. zzycatch's Avatar
    You were wrong, you have been show to be wrong. You try to dance around the issue with "word choice." Fact is, the iPhone is not as business capable as the BB is, and despite what you think, many small businesses use the features I mentioned.

    Get over yourself dont go spreading hogwash about something you obviously dont have a clue on. Seriously.
    07-05-09 12:36 AM
  12. tearsanddreams's Avatar
    wow. this guy has gotta be about 14 and happy with his shiney new iphone. newtoyitus wears off....
    07-05-09 05:50 PM
  13. stuaw11's Avatar
    Why dont you go back to the Blackberry sub-forums instead since the BB is SO GREAT? Think whatever you esnt to think you know, the only hogwash here is your arrogant persistence in thinking you know best here. Yet very curious how youre still in the iphone section trying to start crap...

    And yet both you are SO vehement on continuing to sit in the iphone section simply to bash...wow. How much intelligence does that show?

    And how old does that make you having to come here and attack people's choice in a phone calling it a toy then? 5?


    Both of you save youre breath because I couldnt give a crap less about your lame-duck opinions honestly. The Blackberry sections is <--- that way towards your back button.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 07-05-09 at 08:37 PM.
    07-05-09 08:23 PM
  14. Jeli's Avatar
    Don't bother listening to them. I do work with a number of corporations that have switched over to the iPhone and omg guess what, they do just fine. Another thing to note is that a large percentage of corporate America has started the transition to OS X as well. It just continues to grow. If a company wants to use a BB, thats fine. If they choose to use an iPhone, thats fine as well or an HTC or a Nokia or whatever. It doesn't matter. It's 2009, there are plenty of options out there. A business will pick the one that works the best for them.

    The iPhone performs fantastic in the corporate world, BB users just don't want to admit it because then their last remaining niche will be gone. I'll continue to use my iPhone as will my wife. She happens to run her entire business directly from her phone and then at night she comes home and all her info is sync'd and ready for her on her macbook. It's really that simple. We are both former BlackBerry Users and I find nothing about BB devices that would make me want to go back.

    So let the little whiney BB fanboys continue to whine and one day, maybe, they'll catch up to the rest of us who live in the 21st century. Then again, maybe the won't. Some people just refuse to evolve.
    07-05-09 08:53 PM
  15. Jeli's Avatar
    Right! EVERYTHING...

    Support two-factor authentication? Kinda sorta, locally stored PKI certs, more or less. Smartcards/access tokens? No.

    Support in-house software? Maybe, if you want to jailbreak or if Apple approves.

    Protect its data when physically compromised? Maybe, no one is really sure how the encryption keys are managed and remote wipe is useless.

    Support for remote version controls, separation of personal/professional space, policy management, integrity checks? Um... no, what, sorta, and what?

    Support for distributed task/project management? I know, artistic Mac types aren't big into menial things like "tasks."

    I have to assume that network file shares can be accessed, all the better with permissions beyond "Everyone/World," but I've yet to find anyone that knows how to go about this... so maybe it's out there.

    This doesn't mean the iphone is dead for business, just don't be deluded into thinking that it can do anything that the BB can do.

    Don't underestimate the value of being able to email specs to your IT team for some functionality that you need, they put it together and push it out you and your teams' phones.
    This lame attempt at posting obscure IT tasks actually equates to less then 5% of what the "business world" does with their blackberrys. Not to mention that I can name 5 non-BB phones that can perform all the above tasks better then a BB ever can. Nice try though.
    07-05-09 08:59 PM
  16. jbdale's Avatar
    Please do tell what it doesnt do "business?"

    -Push email
    -Docs 2 Go
    - all PDA functions
    -remote desktop
    - etc etc etc

    So please do name one thing how the iphone cant be used for "business." If you dont like it, great, but dont go spreading hogwash about something you obviously dont h ave a clue on.
    I didn't say it can't be used for business, I said IMO, I would not consider using my iPhone as a business phone. Truly I believe that it is not. I'll stick with BB for now, until Apple gets with the program and features I need. It's all about preference.

    And BTW, I haven't even had this thing for a month and I am already getting a replacement this week. 3 random reboots (which I never experianced with the Storm) which has left me with a continiues lag problem when closing apps and ending calls.
    Last edited by jbdale; 07-05-09 at 10:47 PM.
    07-05-09 10:42 PM
  17. jbdale's Avatar
    Pictures? Yeah, right. You realize the iPhone still takes better pics unless you meant pitch black! I'm sure most of the places you go to at night have lighting. I have both and my iPhone does better at night and day.
    Unless you have an S or from what I have been told about it. There is no difference in quality between the Storm and iPhone 3G. I took both on vacation last week. If I get some time, I 'll post the pics. Seriously the quality is the same.
    07-05-09 10:56 PM
  18. Lynx's Avatar
    07-05-09 11:01 PM
  19. Jeli's Avatar
    You do realize that article was release prior to the 3GS and before marketing data was taken on the Pre right? Not to mention it came after quarterly tally's from the Buy One Get One Free deals from Verizon. Let's also not forget that RIM offers numerous handheld devices while Apple only offers the iPhone. Take into account that the iPhone is only offered on one US carrier and BB devices are available from almost every major carrier and you can see where the actual growth is. Next compare year over year sales figures between the two companies. Then again it was an article from CNN Money, so go figure.
    Last edited by Jeli; 07-05-09 at 11:16 PM.
    07-05-09 11:09 PM
  20. Duvi's Avatar
    Unless you have an S or from what I have been told about it. There is no difference in quality between the Storm and iPhone 3G. I took both on vacation last week. If I get some time, I 'll post the pics. Seriously the quality is the same.
    Not at all... I've had all the phones you could possibly imagine. I took night shots of NYC and I saw a blur with the Storm and 8900, but with the iPhone, no blur and the light from the buildings didn't look faded. Even if they are the same, it's 2.0 vs. 3.2, that's bad. That's like a High School Senior getting beat by a Freshman in Junior High! The iPhone camera reminds me of the Nokia cameras, although lower in MP, the lens are so good, they take better pics then a lot of higher MP cams. I had a Nokia 6682 that took better pics (@ 1.3mp) than all 2.0 mp cams that were out. It even came close to a lot of 3.0 cams (I believe it beat one or two of them, can't remember that far back).
    07-05-09 11:22 PM
  21. stuaw11's Avatar
    Not at all... I've had all the phones you could possibly imagine. I took night shots of NYC and I saw a blur with the Storm and 8900, but with the iPhone, no blur and the light from the buildings didn't look faded. Even if they are the same, it's 2.0 vs. 3.2, that's bad. That's like a High School Senior getting beat by a Freshman in Junior High! The iPhone camera reminds me of the Nokia cameras, although lower in MP, the lens are so good, they take better pics then a lot of higher MP cams. I had a Nokia 6682 that took better pics (@ 1.3mp) than all 2.0 mp cams that were out. It even came close to a lot of 3.0 cams (I believe it beat one or two of them, can't remember that far back).
    Of course because sheeple today buy into the "more MP" mentality which means little to nothing past the actual final picture size. The imaging software and lens quality make 99% of the difference. Apple seems to do a good job with their software even without any settings and whatever lens theyre using. On BB the camera is more of an afterthought really to the device and platform.

    I remember either you or another mod posted 8900 3.2mp and 3g 2.0mp photos with day and night and the iphone's were much better pics at a lower MP rating. Im sure the 3.0 and autofocus only add that quality

    People should really read up on megapixels because the difference, even in 2-3 MP is negligible to photo quality.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 07-06-09 at 12:27 AM.
    07-06-09 12:23 AM
  22. Lynx's Avatar
    You do realize that article was release prior to the 3GS and before marketing data was taken on the Pre right? Not to mention it came after quarterly tally's from the Buy One Get One Free deals from Verizon. Let's also not forget that RIM offers numerous handheld devices while Apple only offers the iPhone. Take into account that the iPhone is only offered on one US carrier and BB devices are available from almost every major carrier and you can see where the actual growth is. Next compare year over year sales figures between the two companies. Then again it was an article from CNN Money, so go figure.
    Nor does it figure in the new Tour, which will sell a ton also. Fact is BlackBerry gained a bigger market share, and from the numbers it basically took it right from the iphone.
    07-06-09 08:42 AM
  23. jbdale's Avatar
    Not at all... I've had all the phones you could possibly imagine. I took night shots of NYC and I saw a blur with the Storm and 8900, but with the iPhone, no blur and the light from the buildings didn't look faded. Even if they are the same, it's 2.0 vs. 3.2, that's bad. That's like a High School Senior getting beat by a Freshman in Junior High! The iPhone camera reminds me of the Nokia cameras, although lower in MP, the lens are so good, they take better pics then a lot of higher MP cams. I had a Nokia 6682 that took better pics (@ 1.3mp) than all 2.0 mp cams that were out. It even came close to a lot of 3.0 cams (I believe it beat one or two of them, can't remember that far back).
    Well then perhaps I must have a jank iPhone then. The camera and audio on the iPhone has been my biggest disapointment. And after 3 random reboots which have left me with a presistant lag when closing apps, I'm going to AT&T this afternoon to see about getting it fixed or replaced.
    07-06-09 08:44 AM
  24. Duvi's Avatar
    Well then perhaps I must have a jank iPhone then. The camera and audio on the iPhone has been my biggest disapointment. And after 3 random reboots which have left me with a presistant lag when closing apps, I'm going to AT&T this afternoon to see about getting it fixed or replaced.
    If it's after 30 days, go to Apple.

    I've not had one reboot or even lag on my device. I don't even reboot like I do on my Bold. Might be the device... hopefully your new one is better.
    07-06-09 08:53 AM
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