07-15-09 12:20 PM
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  1. avt123's Avatar
    I can type faster than a physical keyboard because if you mess up, it will auto correct it for you. But, on a physical keyboard, most likely, you will have to backspace/delete the mistake which wastes more time.
    Exactly. If you get really good at typing on the iPhone you will see that a physical keyboard realy doesn't compare.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-11-09 02:59 PM
  2. jmlampert23's Avatar
    i dont find the iphone at all frustrating, i find it 1 million times better than my blackberry i use to have. yes at&t can step it up on the network side but even then i have not really hand many problems. and they deffinitly hit it out of the park by signing the deal to the exclusive rights to the iphone
    07-11-09 06:04 PM
  3. JasW's Avatar
    I think Apple is trying to break into the business market, I know there are a few major companies that use them. Obviously Apple, but Disney does as well. So there are some steps that they are going to have to make sure. Give it some time, and it'll get there.
    Not with the iPhone. My wife has a 3GS that I play with all of the time -- it's a LOT cooler than my Bold overall -- but when it comes down to email, which is what business and professional users need, the BB will always have it beat. Touch screen email doesn't cut the mustard.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-11-09 08:54 PM
  4. Nazarius's Avatar
    Also if you read the comments on the article the author even says that he just prefers physical keyboards because that's what he normally uses. He agree'd that the iPhone keyboard would probably be better if he took the time to learn how to use it. If you read through all the comments (which you have to be really bored to do so) you'll also see he doesn't use an iPhone on a daily basis, he's an Android fan. End of story.
    Granted the iPhone's keyboard takes time to get used to and auto correction on it works amazing, but if the crackberry addicts your "raced" were really addicts they would have all the most used words put in auto text so they only have to type 2 or 3 letters and it will finish the word for you.

    His review was from a business standpoint and the iPhone just isn't quite there for the business user. That is being said without even touching on the security or lack there of.

    The iPhone is a great device, but they could have easily added more features that other cellphones have had for years. That is what really irks me about how Apple does business. The iPhone 3GS should have been the phone released in 2007, but instead it is the 3rd gen iPhone and most people have been milked for $200 or more for each new gen released.
    07-12-09 12:13 AM
  5. Jeli's Avatar
    Not with the iPhone. My wife has a 3GS that I play with all of the time -- it's a LOT cooler than my Bold overall -- but when it comes down to email, which is what business and professional users need, the BB will always have it beat. Touch screen email doesn't cut the mustard.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    lrn2touchscreen

    Seriously though, the BB is a piece of junk for email outside of BES. The iPhone smokes it in every single way vs BIS users. Quit fooling yourself. Take the time to import all your email accounts and watch how effortlessly your folder structures come across. Push notifications are sweet and it syncs beautifully. Especially if you're on a Mac. If you really want to see the sweet spot, sign up for a free MobileMe trial.
    07-12-09 08:15 AM
  6. Jeli's Avatar
    Granted the iPhone's keyboard takes time to get used to and auto correction on it works amazing, but if the crackberry addicts your "raced" were really addicts they would have all the most used words put in auto text so they only have to type 2 or 3 letters and it will finish the word for you.

    His review was from a business standpoint and the iPhone just isn't quite there for the business user. That is being said without even touching on the security or lack there of.

    The iPhone is a great device, but they could have easily added more features that other cellphones have had for years. That is what really irks me about how Apple does business. The iPhone 3GS should have been the phone released in 2007, but instead it is the 3rd gen iPhone and most people have been milked for $200 or more for each new gen released.
    Sorry I've yet to come across someone with a physical keyboard that can beat me in a typing test. His review was skewed. It was more of a network review then anything and him demonstrating he didn't know how to use his iPhone. I see the iPhone used in business settings everyday, that argument is getting old. When people talk about the security of each device the majority of you don't even understand mobile handset security or IT platform security. Quoting encryption standards and the like isn't knowledge of security. The iPhone runs on basically a mobile version of OSX which is built on the most secure public platform to date; Unix. Im not bashing you or anything, but if you want to debate security we can break down each device in terms of what it can and can't do.

    Actually sounds like a good article to write.
    07-12-09 08:20 AM
  7. sniffs's Avatar
    Sorry I've yet to come across someone with a physical keyboard that can beat me in a typing test. His review was skewed. It was more of a network review then anything and him demonstrating he didn't know how to use his iPhone. I see the iPhone used in business settings everyday, that argument is getting old. When people talk about the security of each device the majority of you don't even understand mobile handset security or IT platform security. Quoting encryption standards and the like isn't knowledge of security. The iPhone runs on basically a mobile version of OSX which is built on the most secure public platform to date; Unix. Im not bashing you or anything, but if you want to debate security we can break down each device in terms of what it can and can't do.

    Actually sounds like a good article to write.
    Not to mention the iPhone runs ActiveSync, which, only uses SSL, but 150+ million Windows Mobile devices seem to be doing ok..
    07-12-09 12:23 PM
  8. slinky#CB's Avatar
    Here is a great, comprehensive article on how the iPhone differs from other mobile devices and the fun you'll have trying to use it with the same efficiency:

    Apple iPhone 3GS Review: Disappointing Features and Battery
    07-13-09 04:46 PM
  9. lolstorm148's Avatar
    ^^ Really just sounded like another post bashing Apple for the way they do business. If you don't like their products, don't buy them. For each instance he displayed something he couldn't do I can show you how to do it. He just fails at using an iPhone. Big surprise.
    07-13-09 04:57 PM
  10. stuaw11's Avatar
    Blah blah blah. The guy should stick to his legal blog.

    As a law student myself Ive found course flashcards, legal dictionary, federal rules, etc etc for the iphone. Try finding that on another platform.

    Furthermore, same old gripes that everyone knows, nothing new.

    And its ridiculous to say you have to jailbreak to compare to functionality of BB and WM, because the BOTH need custom OS/ROMs to be efficient, as well as 3rd party software too (hello HTC Touchflo and tweaks! Thats NOT Windows Mobile!). The iphone is far from the only phone that needs tweaking to work the way you want it, so half the blog is pointless babble.

    The last pic in the blog, complaining about the tiny ad at the bottom? Gimme a freakin break, thats why apps on the iphone cost less than 1/4 the price of other platforms. Id much rather have a small banner ad at the bottom and the app be free then $20 like BB or WM!!!!

    Also, I love how he says "every platform has a today screen" Guess he's never seen a stock BB homescreen without a tweaked theme. Its 6 icons and a wallpaper, wow. WM homescreen (not Touchflo) is only useful once you tweak the crap out of it and add widgets to it. Same with Touchflo, people on xda developers mod the heck out of it for a reason, it doesnt display a lot of info at first glance either. Trust me I used and was very into programming/tweaking WM for about 5 years before going to BB and now the iphone this year. Look at the Pre, where's the homescreen? Its just cards, no info screen. So his argument is baseless.

    There's a way to do 95%+ of his software gripes if he actually tried to search out answers and figure it out instead of whining about it. Neither of the other mentioned platforms are close to perfect either without their flaws or need for 3rd party apps/custom OS/ROMs. Thats well known around here and WM sites, few of those people stay stock for a reason- because stock is less functional by far!

    For a technology attorney, he should know that jailbreaking has no negative effects and a HUGE % of iphones are jailbroken and do what the user wants it to.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 07-13-09 at 05:08 PM.
    07-13-09 04:58 PM
  11. lolstorm148's Avatar
    I was excited at the proposition of perusing the 60,000+ state of the art iPhone applications!
    First bit of disinformation.The App Store at the release of the 3GS contained around 50k Apps; maybe 20% state of the art.

    You must impulse buy everything @ iTunes!
    All he's really saying here is he can't control himself or even add simple numbers together to know how much money he's spending.

    I installed Apple’s synchronization software – iTunes – and was disturbed to discover that the mere act of registering the iPhone with Apple required me to provide Apple my personal information and credit card number.
    Everyone with a clue knows iTunes + the iPhone go hand in hand. It's 2009 and you don't know how iTunes works? Seriously?

    One handed operation with the iPhone is generally not possible but there are advantages to its OS that are time saving over a Blackberry.
    Umm, what? One hand use isn't hard at all.

    If you type numerous emails, this phone is probably not going to work for you.
    Umm Email structure, navigation and general use is better then just about ever device out there, unless you're used to BES functions that BIS users don't even benefit from.

    Unlike any other PDA you’ve had for years, the iPhone has no “disk mode"
    Learn2iDisk - MobileMe wins again.

    While the iPhone OS is supposedly based on Linux..
    No it's based on OSX which is based on Unix.

    Also quit failing handling documents. It's really not as hard as you're making it. Email, Docs2Go are perhaps the simplest means if you're not jailbroken. If you are jailbroken OpenSSH, Mobile Finder, iDiskExplorer etc all do the job extremely well.

    Apple reduced the size of the battery by 15%
    Actually they used a different battery. It lasts 20% longer then the 3G and unless you're awake 24 hours a day, your phone will last you until you goto bed to charge it.

    If you can hold off for 3-6 months, you’ll start seeing new arrivals on the market like the powerful HTC Touch Pro2 that may be more satisfying than the iPhone.
    Cause WinMo is awesome right? A real phone to compare would be the HTC Hero.
    07-13-09 05:25 PM
  12. snookiesnoo's Avatar
    it was a terrible article by someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. The OP should troll elsewhere.
    Having said that i am in the process of possibly switching to the Tour on Verizon but not because i think the BB is better. In fact i think its way behind in many ways. However I travel a lot to New York City and San Francisco and AT&T's service in both cities is awful. Everywhere else i go is not an issue although when the iPhone 3G (not GS) first came out I had a lot of trouble making and retaining calls in many different cities. Now it's only in San Fran and NY. I'm weighing that against no Wi-Fi on the Tour which is a big issue for me.
    07-13-09 06:04 PM
  13. snookiesnoo's Avatar
    I know Windows Mobile quite well and have used it since it was Windows CE 1.0. It is truly amazing that after all these years, all those versions, and all that development, it is still crap.

    Cause WinMo is awesome right? A real phone to compare would be the HTC Hero.
    07-13-09 06:05 PM
  14. avt123's Avatar
    However I travel a lot to New York City and San Francisco and AT&T's service in both cities is awful. Now it's only in San Fran and NY.
    I've never been to Cali, but I'm in NYC a lot an I never have problems with my connection there. I live 40 minutes north of NYC and have 5 bars of 3G everywhere. I have heard people say that before about NYC but it's never happened to me between my 3G, Bold and 3GS. That sucks that you don't get good connections.
    07-13-09 06:18 PM
  15. avt123's Avatar
    Here is a great, comprehensive article on how the iPhone differs from other mobile devices and the fun you'll have trying to use it with the same efficiency:

    Apple iPhone 3GS Review: Disappointing Features and Battery
    Great article...
    07-13-09 06:20 PM
  16. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    Have this discussion civilly or move on. Enough with the
    back and forth.
    07-13-09 07:15 PM
  17. Duvi's Avatar
    Unnecessary replies were deleted. That's it. No discussion needed on that.
    07-13-09 08:21 PM
  18. mykeblount's Avatar
    I don't care about the keyboard issues of people saying they type faster on a iphone than a bb...

    i say this:

    on my bb i bet you i can use aim, yahoo, bbm, emails , ubertwitter, update facebook status etc faster than any iphone person can switch between apps.

    That's my only problem with the iphone is the unnecessary eye candy i am the type of person that don't need all that effects i want it to just be instant

    but at the end of the day its all on your needs i for one don't care if a company overshadows the iphone but i can guarantee iphone fanboys (not saying anyone in this forum) will stick by there side i can give apple that more than any other company.

    but i read both articles and loved them.
    07-13-09 08:47 PM
  19. slinky#CB's Avatar
    Unnecessary replies were deleted. That's it. No discussion needed on that.
    The only unnecessary statements were the ones ripping into my reference to the article. The replies ripping the article are not only factually incorrect but contain insults. These law students have obviously never worked in the business world and, instead of having a discussion, just hurled irrelevant insults at me and the author. I thought this site was professionally run.

    The article at thelawprofessor.com referenced is accurate and I know because I kept my Blackberry in addition to my iPhone because of how much more difficult it was to use my iPhone. Other than browsing, the Blackberry is 100x easier to manage documents, to download attachments, edit them and send them off. You can't even download attachments on the iPhone and, even if you could, you can't even use them in the application you want!!! It's more fun to use the iPhone for what it does but it just doesn't do this stuff well. I also still have a Treo that is my backup phone.

    I found it funny that a law student is telling us how much he knows about the legal industry when he's never even worked in it. Making fun of the author? Please... that's why I said take their critique for what it is. No lawyer cares about the fact that the iPhone has law student flash cards. They only care about saving time and the ease of getting documents in and out of the phone and ease of editing.

    The iPhone is the best media player, hands down. It has the best browser, no question. But the iPhone is an extremely poor business tool because you can't transfer documents to an iPhone using a wired connection or simple drag and drop - you must use air or WiFi. While WiFi is the coolest and all the kids are using all this cool stuff, in many places WiFi is not available, including in many legal and corporate offices except in the conference room which only connects to the outside for presentations. Most people will put their mobile devices in the doc, sync, and be done with it. They won't mess around with individual WiFi connections to their business PC just for documents. They also will hate the fact that there is no drag and drop.

    If you actually work for a living in a major metropolitan area, you'll be out of range a great deal. The iPhone is always assumes you're always connected to WiFi or the air, e.g. mobileme. Unfortunately this isn't the case in New York, Chicago and parts of D.C. and places where you'll spend time underground or out of the range of any signal. As it is right now, the iPhone burns through batteries. I know... I had to deal with it. You're always getting that popup when you open an application about airplane mode too.

    Regarding file structure, the iPhone is like no other PDA. Most business professionals are used to what they see on Windows, Macs, Blackberries, Windows Mobile and the Palm - which account for well over 98% of personal computing and mobile devices. The iPhone doesn't work that way and there is no disk mode. There is no ability to open and app and just browse for a file like 99% of business professionals would assume. Most business professionals will not know this and most articles I've read don't even talk about this. There is very limited drag and drop into iTunes, it doesn't work for documents at all, works differently for photos and only works with media like audio and video. If you're not a student, your patience is far less and all these differences for each media type are a total headache for people with limited time. Most professionals will never want to invest a ton of time in learning this new system and "everybody" doesn't know how the iPhone works - college kids might, not professionals who are in a different environment and this area is usually "need to know." And the worst part is that you can't have your files in one place on the phone - it's all over the phone as each application has its own private folder for its files.

    Regarding all the email critique, it's clear none of these students are reading the article. They just skimmed it and then derided me the author with stuff that has nothing to do with the points. The iPhone's email application is missing some key things, the same way it took 3 versions of the iPhone just to get copy and paste. Sure it's very simple to use but it takes way more time. In a blackberry you can have all your stuff in one mailbox and it takes just one convenient keypress to get out, move the trackball quickly and another keypress to get yourself into another mailbox. Not so on the iPhone. It's at least 5-6 keyswipes for each mailbox. Easy but cumbersome if you use more than one or two accounts. There is also no "select all" or spam filtering. And the iPhone is the only platform where there aren't system extensions. Even the blackberry has a lot more liberal ways of extending the system and HTC was able to provide a front end to Windows Mobile and you can't do squat with the iPhone because of Apple's desire to keep it proprietary. It's clear that the people here guffawing about how the author didn't know jack about Windows Mobile don't really understand what an API is or extensibility.

    Jailbreaking - I found it funny that the student said "For a technology attorney, he should know that jailbreaking has no negative effects and a HUGE % of iphones are jailbroken and do what the user wants it to."

    Rule number 1 in any school is READ YOUR CONTRACT. It appears stuaw11 didn't do that but he knows better than a technology law professor. The fact is that the reason why Apple hasn't unlocked the device (nor AT&T) is because they really don't want users to do it and, doing so, you will VOID YOUR WARRANTY. I'd say that this is perhaps the most obvious thing that EVERYONE knows.

    This is why I'd sooner take the words from a good reference than some people here who seem to criticize like crazy, not respect someone who obviously has been around for a long time, and let readers decide what to believe. Me... I've been there before. My iPhone is a lot of fun but it is really tough to use for business. I think it was made to be a media player and now Apple is having a hard time transforming it.

    PS - There is a today screen for the blackberry called "pocket day." One click and you've got your today screen. Nothing even close on the iPhone unless you jailbreak it... and void your warranty.

    PPS - There is a reason iPhones aren't in the corporate system at this point. They can talk about how many phones were sold but they still haven't made it there and there is good reason. Apple's iPhone isn't ready and perhaps they care more about the consumers than they do about business professionals.
    Last edited by slinky; 07-13-09 at 10:56 PM.
    07-13-09 10:48 PM
  20. lolstorm148's Avatar
    Ahh where to start...

    Who cares who's a lawyer? It's not the only profession in the world. It doesn't make you miraculously better then anyone else if you're a lawyer, doctor, engineer, app developer, street walker, etc. You all serve a purpose, you all have different techinical needs for your career. Choose the device you feel works best for you. Don't feel that you have the right to choose for other people.

    Jailbreaking & voiding warranties. If you jailbreak your phone and brick it and try to return it you will likely be told that you voided your warranty. This is true. What's the solution to this? Set your phone to DFU and restore in iTunes. Warranty re-activated. It is almost near impossible to brick your phone to non-restoreable status.

    Yes Apple is very controlling when it comes to features on their devices. From the iPhone to the AppleTV to OS X. Doesn't mean you have to live with it. I for one take advantage of every device I own and exploit it to it's full potential. I paid for them, I'll do what I please, thank you very much. If I'm using a WinMO phone I will theme and customize it until it's working the way I want. If I'm using a BB I will do the same. I will get it to do what I want to do. The end. Nothing changes with the iPhone. Jailbreaking is a fun way of saying 'modifying'. It's not really that special.

    Let's go down your list:

    Managing documents can be a chore if you don't have the correct tools. Out of the box you're relegated to Email based attachments (IN) and editing through Apps like Docs2Go. This obviously isn't the most elegant way of doing things. Jailbroken (read: modified) iPhones have a variety of options that actually blow their competition out of the water; yes BB included.

    Safari Download Plug-In : Supports downloading various archive (zip, rar, dmg, etc.) files as well as exe, torrents and media files. You can choose to download or stream contents; files are saved to /var/mobile/Library/Downloads/

    iFile : File manager that allows fast navigation through the iPhone file system. It allows direct viewing of various types of files, e.g. movies, sound, text, HTML, Office, PDF & ZIP. A must have.

    Docs : PDF, Word, Excel, PowerPoint (and more) document reader.

    Mobile Word : Mobile MS Word.

    Documents 2 Go : No need to explain this.

    Now how do we get files to the iPhone excluding WiFi or a Data Network (3G, EDGE)?

    Total Commander
    iPhoneBrowser
    Erica's Macintosh tools


    These are all USB wired transfer Apps for the iPhone.

    I personally use OpenSSH, but then I never have all these mysterious connection problems you talk about and I'm up and down the East Coast all the time. Since I really don't have connection problems I can also use my iPhone to pull any files I might remotely need straight from my iDisk via MobileMe; or if you're a PC user try DropBox. This is 2009, take the time to learn about wireless connections, data networks and the like. I have excellent coverage in NYC and I can pickup WiFi signals just about everywhere I go.

    Battery Life - This seems to be everyone's complaint. People fail to realize the power they have in their hands when using an iPhone. To harness that power it sucks your battery. Other mobile devices don't have amazing battery's, they just do less then the iPhone does and as such they don't suck as much juice. I don't recommend turning everything off to preserve battery life, but I do recommend installing utilities like SBSettings so you can adjust your WiFi/3G settings on the fly.

    There is no reason to be constantly searching for WiFi all day. Flip it on when you need it. Same goes for 3G. If you're on WiFi you don't need to have 3G on. Location support as well. Are you using your GPS all day? Didn't think so. SBSettings lets you toggle all these with 2 swipes. You can also grab a battery backup. BB users carry around spare batteries; there's no reason iPhone users can't use backups. Richard Solo makes a good one; the RS1800.

    Media Install d-Tunes. Drag and drop whatever you want. Whatever media type you want. Have some obscure file format? Install Mobile VLC Media Player. End of discussion.

    Email If you're a BES user you'll have a better experience on a BB. If you're BIS the iPhone is better in every way. Learn how to manage your Inboxes and keep things sorted. Create folders and enjoy the fact that your IMAP/POP accounts all come with their folder structures. Never worry about rules again. If you have spam issues, install any of the popular anti-spam apps out there (jailbroken only, obviously). I have yet to get spam in my Inbox.

    [I] Today screens - Intelliscreen from RockyourphoneDOTcom or RemindMe from Cydia

    The thing is the argument is always 'XX device already does that without jailbreaking'. True, but 'XX device' doesn't do all the things the iPhone does. You generally have to mod your phone to achieve any of the wonderful things the iPhone can do out of the box, let alone jailbroken. It's just a bit reversed on the iPhone. To enable your phone to do all the business type stuff you have to modify it. There is no perfect device that does everything. I find that I can do MORE with my iPhone then any other device out there; IF it's jailbroken.

    Finally quit talking as if you're the corporate voice of America. I work. I'm part of the corporate world. I'm also a student. I have the same needs that everyone here with complaints has. I found a way to achieve those needs, using only one device. A device that I actually think is great. It took me about 2 days to learn everything I needed to in regards to jailbreaking and the iPhone. It's paying off for me. I'm not complaining about how Apple isn't fair and blah blah blah. Take initiative and maybe you'll learn a thing or two.
    07-14-09 12:15 AM
  21. slinky#CB's Avatar
    Jailbreaking & voiding warranties. If you jailbreak your phone and brick it and try to return it you will likely be told that you voided your warranty. This is true. What's the solution to this? Set your phone to DFU and restore in iTunes. Warranty re-activated. It is almost near impossible to brick your phone to non-restoreable status.
    Thanks for the good response. In this area I disagree with you about "near impossible" - what happens if your phone doesn't turn on one day, just like my colleague? If you want to take the risk, fine, but most business people won't. And then there is the issue of support. You might know what NOT to say... etc. No IT department or business professional wants this headache when other devices are easier to manage.

    Managing documents can be a chore if you don't have the correct tools. Out of the box you're relegated to Email based attachments (IN) and editing through Apps like Docs2Go. This obviously isn't the most elegant way of doing things. Jailbroken (read: modified) iPhones have a variety of options that actually blow their competition out of the water; yes BB included.
    I don't disagree with you at all. The problem is no business entity is going to do a deal to a corporate/business deal for several iPhones and then void all their warranties. Again, there is no technical support for any of these contract breaking hacks. Lastly, these solutions are extremely awkward on the iPhone compared to their counterparts, as was explained in the article. There is a much higher learning curve for this on the iPHone than any other system.

    Now how do we get files to the iPhone excluding WiFi or a Data Network (3G, EDGE)?
    Total Commander
    iPhoneBrowser
    Erica's Macintosh tools

    These are all USB wired transfer Apps for the iPhone.
    I personally use OpenSSH,
    I've used them but (a) Erica's is Mac only, (b) iPhone Browser only get the files onto an area of the phone but not into the folders you need to access, e.g. the folder for a certain application. If you say SSH to anyone who isn't in IT, they will give you a funny look on your face. No average professional wants to be bothered with this when you can get simple drag and drop. Nobody said it was impossible. It's just really much, much harder to do file management on the iPhone. Plus, your solutions can't get a document onto the phone for Docs to Go or Quick Office to edit the file.

    but then I never have all these mysterious connection problems you talk about and I'm up and down the East Coast all the time. Since I really don't have connection problems I can also use my iPhone to pull any files I might remotely need straight from my iDisk via MobileMe; or if you're a PC user try DropBox. This is 2009, take the time to learn about wireless connections, data networks and the like. I have excellent coverage in NYC and I can pickup WiFi signals just about everywhere I go.
    In NYC we have a transportation system called "the subway" and also the railroad. It's underground and we take it often since surface transit can take forever. It's a great place to get emails answered on your phone/blackberry. Unfortunately the iPhone always tries to connect just by opening a mailbox - even in airplane mode. It kills the battery of the phone.

    Second, where are you getting WiFi from? It's not free in many places even though it used to be. Most charge and the point is simple - why in the world would Apple remove the ability to use a cable and force you to use WiFi? It's ridiculous. Wireless file transfer should have been another option, not forced.

    Third, as I said, many offices do not allow WiFi at all. It's not an option. At your home PC it's a pain but not impossible but at work it can be for sure. I don't even know many people who are allowed to have their hardwired PCs connected to a wifi router.

    [I] Today screens - Intelliscreen from RockyourphoneDOTcom or RemindMe from Cydia
    Again - you're talking about a jailbreak device. Corporate and business offices cannot run these devices. It's just too much risk and no IT department will want to take that kind of responsibility. The simple answer is, as the writer of the article suggests, is not to use an iPhone for business at present. There are other choices. It's a great phone but unless Apple finally does what we all know it should, it hampers the ability for businesses to operate in the way they should.

    Finally quit talking as if you're the corporate voice of America. I work. I'm part of the corporate world. I'm also a student. I have the same needs that everyone here with complaints has. I found a way to achieve those needs, using only one device. A device that I actually think is great. It took me about 2 days to learn everything I needed to in regards to jailbreaking and the iPhone. It's paying off for me. I'm not complaining about how Apple isn't fair and blah blah blah. Take initiative and maybe you'll learn a thing or two.
    If you're telling me that you think that the corporate world will purchase 100 phones with the intention of immediately voiding their warranty, I'll say that you really aren't involved in any decision making capacity in the corporate world. You're not respecting the people who are and why they can't make a decision to jailbreak a device, even though to YOU it seems risk free and no big deal.

    I highly doubt it took 2 days to go from novice to expert. I know it took me a week to really figure out a lot about the iPhone. Much of the information I had to pick up in various forums and piece it together. And why would any business person invest 2 days or 10 days to hack their phone, void their warranty, install several hacks, just to get an iphone to work when a Blackberry, WindowsMobile or Palm device will better suit their needs? The fact is that all of those devices are built with the corporate user in mind. The iPhone is clearly a consumer phone built more on media and entertainment but not nearly focused and perfected for many business tasks - and that is true and exactly what the author said.
    Last edited by slinky; 07-14-09 at 12:54 AM.
    07-14-09 12:51 AM
  22. lolstorm148's Avatar
    Thanks for the good response. In this area I disagree with you about "near impossible" - what happens if your phone doesn't turn on one day, just like my colleague? If you want to take the risk, fine, but most business people won't. And then there is the issue of support. You might know what NOT to say... etc. No IT department or business professional wants this headache when other devices are easier to manage.


    I don't disagree with you at all. The problem is no business entity is going to do a deal to a corporate/business deal for several iPhones and then void all their warranties. Again, there is no technical support for any of these contract breaking hacks. Lastly, these solutions are extremely awkward on the iPhone compared to their counterparts, as was explained in the article. There is a much higher learning curve for this on the iPHone than any other system.


    I've used them but (a) Erica's is Mac only, (b) iPhone Browser only get the files onto an area of the phone but not into the folders you need to access, e.g. the folder for a certain application. If you say SSH to anyone who isn't in IT, they will give you a funny look on your face. No average professional wants to be bothered with this when you can get simple drag and drop. Nobody said it was impossible. It's just really much, much harder to do file management on the iPhone. Plus, your solutions can't get a document onto the phone for Docs to Go or Quick Office to edit the file.


    In NYC we have a transportation system called "the subway" and also the railroad. It's underground and we take it often since surface transit can take forever. It's a great place to get emails answered on your phone/blackberry. Unfortunately the iPhone always tries to connect just by opening a mailbox - even in airplane mode. It kills the battery of the phone.

    Second, where are you getting WiFi from? It's not free in many places even though it used to be. Most charge and the point is simple - why in the world would Apple remove the ability to use a cable and force you to use WiFi? It's ridiculous. Wireless file transfer should have been another option, not forced.

    Third, as I said, many offices do not allow WiFi at all. It's not an option. At your home PC it's a pain but not impossible but at work it can be for sure. I don't even know many people who are allowed to have their hardwired PCs connected to a wifi router.


    Again - you're talking about a jailbreak device. Corporate and business offices cannot run these devices. It's just too much risk and no IT department will want to take that kind of responsibility. The simple answer is, as the writer of the article suggests, is not to use an iPhone for business at present. There are other choices. It's a great phone but unless Apple finally does what we all know it should, it hampers the ability for businesses to operate in the way they should.


    If you're telling me that you think that the corporate world will purchase 100 phones with the intention of immediately voiding their warranty, I'll say that you really aren't involved in any decision making capacity in the corporate world. You're not respecting the people who are and why they can't make a decision to jailbreak a device, even though to YOU it seems risk free and no big deal.

    I highly doubt it took 2 days to go from novice to expert. I know it took me a week to really figure out a lot about the iPhone. Much of the information I had to pick up in various forums and piece it together. And why would any business person invest 2 days or 10 days to hack their phone, void their warranty, install several hacks, just to get an iphone to work when a Blackberry, WindowsMobile or Palm device will better suit their needs? The fact is that all of those devices are built with the corporate user in mind. The iPhone is clearly a consumer phone built more on media and entertainment but not nearly focused and perfected for many business tasks - and that is true and exactly what the author said.
    The problem is, you're missing the point. The article wasn't about large corporate settings. It was an individual user. Same thing with the Engadget editorial. Most businesses in the United States, let alone the world, are not made up of hundreds of employee's with the need to keep everyone connected through the same type of device. If you want to discuss the finer points of Business IT development and deployment we can, but when you say 'Business User', you're referring to ANYONE who can use a device to help them with their 'WORK or BUSINESS'. It doesn't automatically mean XXX Super Company with 3 thousand employee's on a BES server.

    Take into account the hundreds of thousands of small businesses in this country and then ask yourself how many of them have an IT department? Or even know what an Exchange server is? For these users standard Docs2Go or QuickOffice will serve all their needs. For the most part, mobile business users really only need access to the web and email, with the ability to make phone calls or send texts. The iPhone accomplishes that tenfold. Add in the fact that you can most likely find an App to service whatever need you might have, outside of jailbreaking and you'll find that the iPhone is well suited to serve the 'BUSINESS' needs of many if not the majority of people out there.

    You talk about the iPhone as if it's really hard to use. It is rated the most user friendly device available. I know a ton of people who have left Blackberry's for the iPhone because they thought the BB was too complicated to learn and that the iPhone was easy. It's all a matter of perspective. While the iPhone might not be suitable for a busy law firm, it can do just fine in a hundred other settings. It's the same argument that you can ONLY use a PC for work and Macs are for play. Everyone with a brain knows that's a line of BS. I can accomplish more on my iMac in a workday then I could ever care to accomplish on my W7 Dell XPS. My wife runs her business from her iPhone and sometimes uses my iMac for larger projects. We both used to use Blackberry's and PCs. They didn't accomplish what we wanted them to as quick and elegant as the iPhone and the iMac are capable of.

    As for learning my iPhone in 2 days, it was more like a day and a half. It is not a hard device to understand. I accomplished everything you're complaining about on my iPhone before I even jailbroke it, with little effort. It just seems like a whining rant from people who don't like the iPhone. All the speeches about the corporate world are getting old. I work in IT/IS security and in my spare time I code. I see the corporate world everyday. I hear all the complaints about Palm, RIM, Apple, MS, etc. every day. I get to experience first hand multiple platforms and OS's as a regular part of my life. I get to clean up everyone's mistakes and fix what shouldn't be broke on a daily basis. Know what my favorite part is? Using an iPhone on the go because the damn thing just works, and using my iMac when I get home because it also, just works. Your view of the corporate world is just a teeny tiny section of what is out there.

    Gain some perspective already.
    07-14-09 01:29 AM
  23. slinky#CB's Avatar
    If you want to discuss the finer points of Business IT development and deployment we can, but when you say 'Business User', you're referring to ANYONE who can use a device to help them with their 'WORK or BUSINESS'. It doesn't automatically mean XXX Super Company with 3 thousand employee's on a BES server....
    Take into account the hundreds of thousands of small businesses in this country and then ask yourself how many of them have an IT department? Or even know what an Exchange server is? For these users standard Docs2Go or QuickOffice will serve all their needs.
    I hear you. Actually, I thought the article meant for anyone who runs a business that relies upon using files and email, which most do. The iPhone is terrible with regard to document handling and organizing and acceptable for moderate email use, including small businesses. Regarding Docs to Go, I find it absolutely absurd that the iPhone won't just sync the files when it does your calendar. I hate it when I'm home and running my own side business. I have to always remap the hard drive or enter in pairing for Docs to Go. WHY??? I don't have time to waste and all I needed to do on any other platform is connect the device and the sync software does the rest. Perhaps you have no problem because (a) you use a Mac which is the minority, and (b) you are totally wireless, and (c) you use mobileme. For most, this is never going to happen and the numbers themselves speak so - what is the Mac market share?

    For the most part, mobile business users really only need access to the web and email, with the ability to make phone calls or send texts. The iPhone accomplishes that tenfold. Add in the fact that you can most likely find an App to service whatever need you might have, outside of jailbreaking and you'll find that the iPhone is well suited to serve the 'BUSINESS' needs of many if not the majority of people out there.
    I couldn't disagree more. To begin, there is no quick access tasks/today screen. In fact, on the iPhone there is no tasks at all!!!! Most mobile business users don't need the web a great deal although it's handy. Email is a must. Many need document handling and filing, with editing being a plus that only some will use. Unfortunately the iPhone's email is still behind even though it is easy to use. It's getting there. The phone has its pros and cons but the battery life is a serious issue right now. You cannot use push email with this device unless you can charge it every day - period. I have used the 3GS and I know how quickly the phone depletes - the fact that any Blackberry will provide MUCH more battery time cannot be understated. Texting is minimal and all phones do this reasonable.

    You talk about the iPhone as if it's really hard to use. It is rated the most user friendly device available. I know a ton of people who have left Blackberry's for the iPhone because they thought the BB was too complicated to learn and that the iPhone was easy. It's all a matter of perspective. While the iPhone might not be suitable for a busy law firm, it can do just fine in a hundred other settings.
    The point was made clearly by me - it is incredibly easy to use what is given to you. The problem is Apple is trying to pull a Microsoft and failing miserably - instead of allowing other developers to dedicate themselves to building other applications that do one task well, apple is trying to do it themselves. Again, it's dead simple to use the email application but why is it still missing a basic spam or filter, select all, mark all read, and single mailbox options? These have been around for a long time - just like copy and paste.

    Some areas it is closed off it is completely out of whack. Virtually everyone I know thinks that iTunes is a half-baked half-done attempt to make a media synch device do more than it was designed to do. It will get there but it isn't there yet and it doesn't do ANY documents. Why is there no one touch sync? That's a no-brainer. It's still "iTunes" and not "iSync." Eventually this part will get there too, but not now.

    How about the lack of a task list that is integrated into Outlook. Tons of small businesses here in NYC use Outlook, not exchange. Apple didn't even bother to sync Tasks or even provide a tasks manager! Yes, the OS is easy to learn but it's still unfinished business at this point and the problem is that nobody but Apple can finish some areas. Yes, I looked everywhere and there are no solutions. Every decent tasks manager is Mac ONLY with no PC sync or clients. I've done a LOT of research on this.

    As for learning my iPhone in 2 days, it was more like a day and a half. It is not a hard device to understand. I accomplished everything you're complaining about on my iPhone before I even jailbroke it, with little effort. It just seems like a whining rant from people who don't like the iPhone. All the speeches about the corporate world are getting old. I work in IT/IS security and in my spare time I code. I see the corporate world everyday. I hear all the complaints about Palm, RIM, Apple, MS, etc. every day.
    I don't doubt you hear complaints but here is the bottom line you aren't accepting: Apple didn't design the iPhone for any business use. It began as the best media player and phone ever. That is what it excels at. Blackberry is the opposite. Boring as crap device, best email system ever. Blackberry made strides to move towards the iPhone and, like others, had much more open development systems. Apple is going the reverse direction and is struggling mightily with that part of the transition. Still the only phone were there is no practical plug and play file management on the phone, no attachment downloading, etc. It's still the best media player and they keep on adding that kind of good stuff, e.g. Nike.

    You are so far ahead of the average business professional AND you use a Mac. You don't realize it, especially because you are immersed in this stuff. Yes, the iPhone is the easiest phone to use but the apps just aren't there for business and, in some instances, are made unnecessarily difficult at this time, e.g. no disk management, no document synching in one touch sync, etc.

    Using an iPhone on the go because the damn thing just works, and using my iMac when I get home because it also, just works. Your view of the corporate world is just a teeny tiny section of what is out there. Gain some perspective already.
    Actually, I worked on an executive level at one top 20 Internet company in the Internet boom, two Fortune companies, 2 small companies and firms with 10 or less employees so I think that my perspective runs the gamut. The Blackberry barely crashes for me. It just "works." If I didn't need to use the web so often for my web based business now, I'd never use the iPhone. I love it as a personal phone if I did some casual business and emailing.

    Using your iMac at home means you are the clear minority. Most of the world uses PCs. Second, in the legal world and for most businesses it's required or easier to use PCs. They work extremely well for the most part although there are glitches all the time in every system.

    I'm not discounting your perspective. I'm saying that for you it's way, way easier than the average person to make technology work for you. And once again, the iPhone is really more designed to satisfy a different market that mostly cares about an amazing media player that goes with them everywhere (music in the car, on the train, running, etc.) with decent email, great browsing, great apps to find stuff and entertainment, a big screen to play media. It is awesome for that market. But it's not built for business usage and takes effort. I'm trying hard to make it work because I like all the stuff that has nothing to do with business too much.
    Last edited by slinky; 07-14-09 at 02:29 AM.
    07-14-09 02:27 AM
  24. ayoitzrimz's Avatar
    The iphone beats blackberries in every way. Please don't try and tell me that you need your emails to arrive so quickly that you can't wait to have them fetched every 15 minutes. Lack of multitasking is a pain I have to admit but not something that outweighs the benefits of having a phone that actually works (*cough* storm *cough*). The UI is simple and intuitive, the phone is quick and responsive, and I can type on my iphone almost as fast as I could on my curve (just trust the autocorrect and keep going). I think people have a natural proclivity to find something wrong with everything especially techies (myself included) but really this phone is a paragon of how a smartphone should be built.
    07-14-09 08:30 AM
  25. fabuloso's Avatar
    I read the article, and I don't live in NYC nor do I own an iPhone. But really, I have played with one here and there and the only eye candy to me on the iPhone is that its applications are slick, easy to use, and I like that. Though of course, I will agree that It probably isn't best suited for all business. Haha, even Nationwide Mutual Insurance Company commercials have a lady with a iPhone and claims app.

    But I will eventually get one, well, no, maybe just the iPod Touch, which best suits me for what I really need it for. Media.
    Last edited by fabuloso; 07-14-09 at 10:22 AM.
    07-14-09 10:13 AM
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