01-22-10 06:59 PM
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  1. Darthkuriboh's Avatar
    But I think you can see how it would worry me Twins... 82 million customers I'm concerned about 20 million of those buying iDonts and screwing up data for everyone else

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-11-09 02:52 PM
  2. gawatkins3340's Avatar
    I might try it out in the store when it out. But I think I will stick with my Storm 2! Its getting better by the day!
    11-11-09 03:21 PM
  3. thinkamp's Avatar
    Yes, but there is a difference - the AT&T data network was already nearing capacity bandwidth when the iPhone came alone. The iPhone doubled the number of data plan users, but AT&T still hasn't doubled the bandwidth.

    The adaptive nature of CDMA would keep that from happening - plus, on VZW, many of the iPhones would simply be replacing BlackBerrys.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I know it would sure as heck be replacing my crapberry.
    11-11-09 03:39 PM
  4. hdtechmachinist's Avatar
    Apple is like Anheuser-Busch, They are marketing companies that happen to sell comps./phones and beer. They're both sub par products but are marketed well.

    Who cares about the iphone!!?? Whoever falls for their marketing ploy, because the cool kid has something different.
    11-11-09 03:39 PM
  5. thinkamp's Avatar
    Apple is like Anheuser-Busch, They are marketing companies that happen to sell comps./phones and beer. They're both sub par products but are marketed well.

    Who cares about the iphone!!?? Whoever falls for their marketing ploy, because the cool kid has something different.
    I care about the iphone. The BB is a little too far behind on apps...and you can't even multi-task without freezing the crapberry. I am very anti-berry at this point.
    BBs have just turned into a big heaping pile of crap and I'm done with it as soon as I get the droid &then I'll wait happy&proudly on the IPHONE!!!!!!
    11-11-09 03:43 PM
  6. Champer's Avatar
    Wouldn't buy it if it was $1 off contract.
    11-11-09 04:21 PM
  7. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    But I think you can see how it would worry me Twins... 82 million customers I'm concerned about 20 million of those buying iDonts and screwing up data for everyone else
    That is a valid concern, too - but one you can rest easier over since this isn't AT&T or T-Mobile we're talking about. I don't want it to sound like I just slammed those fine companies, either - it is the technology their network uses.

    I need to dig up the piece I wrote several months ago about bandwidth allocation, as it would serve well here for an explanation for all. But until I do find it, know that GSM has a hard number of channels it can use, while CDMA has no such limit. An AT&T customer, trying to get onto a capacity traffic network, would be unable to connect until someone else dropped off. A VZW or Sprint customer doesn't see this - the network adapts, compresses & reroutes as needed. Throw in the fact that VZW & Sprint both have considerably more bandwidth to begin with & you can see that, theoretically, while AT&T may be at the limits of their data capacity in many areas, VZW could double or triple the number of users. Speeds might suffer a bit, if this happened, but the networks would still be usable.

    Another little tidbit is the fact BlackBerrys are more of a bandwidth hog than iPhones, because each BlackBerry data transaction requires multiple hops, proxies & connections. In other words, AT&T would improve service if they were to simply trade every BlackBerry for a new iPhone. Shut down BlackBerry, give all the former BlackBerry users an iPhone, WM or Android phone. It wouldn't be a big improvement, as most of their issues stem from maximum connections, rather than bandwidth, but any improvement would help.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-11-09 04:44 PM
  8. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Apple is like Anheuser-Busch, They are marketing companies that happen to sell comps./phones and beer. They're both sub par products but are marketed well.

    Who cares about the iphone!!?? Whoever falls for their marketing ploy, because the cool kid has something different.
    Now the problems with your analogy are many.

    1) Apple designs & oversees the manufacture of their devices & keeps a tight leash on the Apple experience.

    2) iPhones are well-designed devices that work so well & are so well received that every manufacturer out there is either trying to beat the iPhone or catering to it.

    3) The iPhone & Moto Droid run on the same basic hardware. The Droid hardware smokes BlackBerry, as does iPhone's. RIM doesn't even come close.

    4) Apple makes one iPhone. Each successive version replaces the old one. RIM makes multiple models, most with variations & all on the same ancient, boring & uncompetitive platform - yet they still chase iPhone.

    5) The BlackBerry market is showing signs of crashing, even through BOGOs, multiple carriers & heavy promotion. My broker has AAPL as a BUY recommendation, while RIMM has been a SELL for awhile now.

    6) Massive problems with a succession of new BlackBerry releases haven't been seen on other lines. There is a reason S2 released under a BOGO & Tour was included on a BOGO very quickly after release - all while Sprint is selling all the TP2s it can get at $349. People are learning & are over the initial BlackBerry delusions. Some have returned to feature phones, while others have decided to move up & out of the BlackBerry ghetto.

    It is BlackBerry that is now considered a subpar product, not iPhone.

    Smart people care about iPhone... and Droid and WM and Linux... while sheep want BlackBerrys.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-11-09 05:02 PM
  9. lastraid's Avatar
    This cannot be true at all! I must protest !

    I have net yet seen on the BGR site yet
    11-11-09 05:22 PM
  10. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    I need to dig up the piece I wrote several months ago about bandwidth allocation, as it would serve well here for an explanation for all.
    I know Darth understands this, but for others...

    From this post

    It is somewhat a catch-22 of GSM. With GSM, you have a hard limit on the number of channels available. To make it simple, let's say a tower has ten channels, each able to handle one line. Since the tower frequency bandwidth is finite (this is true whether GSM or CDMA), each of the channels also has a finite bandwith capacity. In this case, 10% of the total tower frequency bandwidth. Now let's say the tower frequency bandwidth is 5000Mbps, meaning each channel can handle a maximum bandwidth of 500Mbps, and probably less, as we know a variety of things can obstruct the 'perfect signal' and slow things down a bit. Using this as a base, we can see that no matter what the theoretical maximum is, each channel can only handle 500Mbps.

    So how do we get closer to the theoretical maximum? With GSM, we reduce the number of channels, which opens up more bandwidth per channel. Let's say we cut the number of channels in half & simply assume we will now see 1000Mbps per channel. Each user would then have faster throughput, but then the tower would only be able to handle half the number of transmissions. This means we then have to increase our installations to service the same number of customers on the network.

    With CDMA, we do not have a set number of channels, as the technology uses a digital spread spectrum. Multiple devices can use the same bandwidth - the total bandwidth per installation starts out higher than a similar GSM installation - and the digital signal isn't put through a narrow channel.

    With GSM, the tower is split into these hard channels, which means if one user is running full tilt, they are still capped in bandwidth speed, even if there is no ome else on the tower at that moment. With CDMA, each user can use most of the tower bandwidth (up to device limits) and if traffic increases, available bandwidth drops automatically.

    The spread spectrum is cool all on its own. Think of a football field. There are multiple groups on the field - some milling about, while others are sitting aroung talking. You need to get from one end zone to the other. There are no restrictions other than the groups of people on the field. You start off and come across a group, you simply move to an open area & continue on your way, much like TO in his prime. You will get to the other end in no time. Add more people trying to get from one end to the other - some will head through the crowds, thile others will stop to join the existing groups. You could continue adding people until the field was completely jammed.

    With GSM, let's take the same football field, but now there are walls forming hallways from endzone to endzone, each just wide enough for one person to get through at a time. We have the same number of people on the field as in the CDMA scenario, but now they are grouped in these hallways. You head down a hallway, but hit a group. So, you choose another hallway. If you've ever gotten a network busy intercept on GSM (they are very common), you hit a full hallway or channel. Your subsequent hallways are all in use until you finally find one you can pass through.

    If you have ten hallways, you will only be able to handle a maximum of ten total making their way through to the other side. CDMA doesn't have these hallways or channels - you might have a straight shot to the other end or you might have to go around come obstacles. As the football field nears capacity, you will have less room to maneuver, but until the crowd is all shoulder to shoulder, you can make it through. It doesn't matter if groups huddled together or are moving around. Get the groups, or users on GSM and you can't move around - if it is easier, think Walmart aisles at Christmastime.

    So AT&T's culpability in this is keeping costs down - it isn't due to ineptitude. If they wanted to up the speed, they could, but their costs would rise & potentially make their price uncompetitive. Personally, I am pretty certain the theoretical maximum is what they are basing their 'fastest network' claims on. This still doesn't cut it for me, as only a tiny portion of their network is capable of it. And, when you get right to it, unless you're tethering, you might not see a huge difference, especially with BlackBerry.

    I realize this is a bit simplistic, but I think more folks might understand it than if I went into technicalities with it.
    11-11-09 05:43 PM
  11. DesertDogs's Avatar
    Some have returned to feature phones, while others have decided to move up & out of the BlackBerry ghetto.

    It is BlackBerry that is now considered a subpar product, not iPhone.

    Smart people care about iPhone... and Droid and WM and Linux... while sheep want BlackBerrys.
    I see BBs now and the first think in my mind is hey look at the guy who cheaped out on his phone. He must not be able to afford better.

    From several bat pulls a week on BB to one hard reset a month on my Touchpro 2. I would take iphone or droid over BB but I love my HTC. It rocks and doesn't make it look like I shopped in the Bluelight Special bargain bin.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-11-09 05:57 PM
  12. MofoMagic's Avatar
    I think if the argument is Iphone vs. Rim, the answer is simple.

    Truth be told, VZW left rim standing at the altar, while Droid came by in its little black cocktail dress, saying she knew ways to make the popular cheerleader boil with jealousy.

    Now, the problem becomes what I think will be the biggest issue with the Iphone on Verizon, it is mainly, the customer base is an old school one, however, it will give "soccer mom judy" a reason to get a smartphone.

    Thats all the iphone has done for at&t, most customers who have one cant tell you anything outside of app #58,523 that happens to show them where they can find the nearest dunkin donuts shop.

    Would I like to see it? Sure, it couldnt hurt, but I think that it will be a lot more underwhelming than most believe.
    11-11-09 06:36 PM
  13. lastraid's Avatar
    Here is the way I see it. Each device and manufacturer has an app, a feature ,or function that suits each persons needs. If a Droid, BB, iPhone, or any other device meets YOUR needs then this is device you should get.
    11-11-09 06:57 PM
  14. Butthead007's Avatar
    Iphone on Verizon? Surely you jest.............
    11-11-09 08:26 PM
  15. blue_and_bold's Avatar
    The only thing I can't stand about the iphone is the lack of multitasking... sure apps are cool but If I can't go back and forth...
    And just a quick question how would VZW look getting the iphone after running all these idont ads?
    11-12-09 08:19 AM
  16. thinkamp's Avatar
    The only thing I can't stand about the iphone is the lack of multitasking... sure apps are cool but If I can't go back and forth...
    And just a quick question how would VZW look getting the iphone after running all these idont ads?
    Well the two commercials I have seen are just talking about ATTs crappy "3g" coverage on the iphone. Pretty much saying the iphone would be better on vzw!
    11-12-09 08:22 AM
  17. blue_and_bold's Avatar
    Well that one idont one thats like
    idont allow open development and all that
    was that droid or is vzw stamped somewhere on it?
    11-12-09 08:35 AM
  18. bluerskyes's Avatar
    I prefer my BlackBerry because I like the way it handles email, not because I "don't know any better".

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-12-09 09:44 AM
  19. cenloe's Avatar
    11-12-09 10:03 AM
  20. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Well that one idont one thats like
    idont allow open development and all that
    was that droid or is vzw stamped somewhere on it?
    Would you prefer them to say "iPhone is great, wait until 2010 & ignore our phone we hope you'll like better?"

    Every smartphone out there is marketed as being the best there is & they want the consumer to see the value of their product over the competitor's product.

    The only limitation is if they name a competitor, they have to be able to prove what they are saying is true - although there have been numerous fuzzy attempts around this law, the iDont commercial isn't one of them. About the only thing Apple might be able to scream about is that the commercial looks just like theirs.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-12-09 11:49 AM
  21. blue_and_bold's Avatar
    Would you prefer them to say "iPhone is great, wait until 2010 & ignore our phone we hope you'll like better?"

    Every smartphone out there is marketed as being the best there is & they want the consumer to see the value of their product over the competitor's product.

    The only limitation is if they name a competitor, they have to be able to prove what they are saying is true - although there have been numerous fuzzy attempts around this law, the iDont commercial isn't one of them. About the only thing Apple might be able to scream about is that the commercial looks just like theirs.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    See I knew there was an explanation I just think that its in poor taste to bash something you will in the future support, but I do understand the business side and VZW needs to sell phones and all that so more power too em.
    11-12-09 12:04 PM
  22. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    See I knew there was an explanation I just think that its in poor taste to bash something you will in the future support, but I do understand the business side and VZW needs to sell phones and all that so more power too em.
    Think about it this way - VZW & Alltel were once competitors with comparison ads. VZW bought Alltel. Cingular & AT&T were once competitors with comparison ads. Cingular bought AT&T. A local Cadillac dealer runs ads saying Cadillac is the best car, but they also run ads for their Saab & Hummer lines.

    Two local grocery store chains - Frys, owned by Kroger, & Safeway. They beat up on each other regularly in Wednesday & Sunday ads, as well as TV & radio, saying they are cheaper, offer better service, are more convenient, etc. With a strike looming tonight at midnight, the two have joined forces for temporary workers, & a commitment to lock out the union if only one is hit.

    Business has a lot of twists & odd partnerships.

    Apple isn't going to let an ad campaign get in the way of 88 million customers & VZW won't snub the best known & most desired smartphone out there. When the timing & arrangements are right, the two will come together & both will (occasionally) take swipes at other phones & carriers. If an agreement comes to pass, I think it will be RIM feeling the snub, because by that time, iPhone, WM, Android & Linux will be fighting to rule the roost, while BlackBerrys will be pretty much irrelevant.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-12-09 04:17 PM
  23. lastraid's Avatar
    This was an article that cam from wired.com this morning. I just cant find it again to post the link.

    Could the rumors be true?

    What if in addition to a tablet, Apple made another huge announcement at next week’s press event, like a Verizon iPhone? That’s what an analyst is predicting.

    “We believe there is a good chance that the ‘One more thing…’ part of next week’s presentation may include two iPhone-related announcements: namely, the release of iPhone OS 4.0 and the unveiling of iPhone 4G coming to Verizon in June,” writes Canaccord Adams’ Peter Misek in a note to clients Wednesday.

    Misek said he and his semi-conductor partners believe the Asian supply chain is prepping for mass production of a CDMA Verizon iPhone in March with plans to begin selling the device in June. He added that an “iPhone 4GS” on the next-generation Long Term Evolution (LTE) network will likely arrive next year.

    While I won’t completely dismiss the possibility of a Verizon iPhone launched in June, I believe it’s unlikely Apple will make such an announcement next week. Apple introduced both the iPhone 3G and iPhone 3GS at the Worldwide Developers Conference held in June of 2008 and June of 2009, respectively. WWDC is an annual event, and I see no reason for Apple to fire all of its ammo at next week’s presumed tablet event, only to leave customers waiting five months for a Verizon iPhone. (Apple did announce the original iPhone during Macworld Expo in January 2007 and release the device five months later, but based on the greater success of the iPhone 3G and iPhone 3GS, we doubt Apple would revert.)

    With all that said, if there is a Verizon iPhone, I’d expect it to be announced at WWDC 2010, which will likely be held June. It would be wise for Apple to save such big news to attract attention to the event. But consider me a skeptic. Other than a few analysts making guesses based on conversations with supply-chain partners, I’ve seen zero solid evidence suggesting a Verizon iPhone is arriving this year. My guess is Apple would wait until 2011 for Verizon to roll out its 4G LTE network to help sell the iPhone on a brand spanking new network.
    01-21-10 05:11 PM
  24. tech_head's Avatar
    Hi,

    I happen to like my S2. Not because I'm an ***** but because I happen to like it.
    Several features I like above and beyond the iPhone, Droid, etc.
    I like the way a BB handles email, BB messaging, etc.

    Also, on the latest assortment of smart phones (excluding the Google Phone) they all run ~550Mhz ARM processor and possibly a coprocessor to handle DSP functions.

    I might entertain an iPhone on Verizon. I won't entertain an iPhone or any other device for that matter on any other network.
    01-21-10 08:03 PM
  25. wryun's Avatar
    When/if VZW gets the iPhone, I plan on getting it and trying it out for the 30 days. I am stoked for it!
    01-21-10 09:10 PM
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