10-12-11 09:44 PM
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  1. soccernamlak's Avatar
    Believe it or not, I am not a hater. I just feel that the iPhone is incredibly over-rated. Touch screen technology was not an innovation with the iPhone, it just wasn't popular yet.
    Of course touch screen technology wasn't an innovation: it was the multi-touch gestures, which pushed us from stylus or single touch screens to what we have today.

    Tablets have been around for years, they just weren't popular yet. Apple has truly set a new standard in marketing by making these products "gotta haves". But don't mistake that for innovation.
    I disagree with your assessment.

    Tablets have been around for years, but they've always been (typically) an expensive machine running a full blown desktop software. Apple realized it could go the opposite route: make a large phone basically. Combine that with a low price point (compared to other tablets), and they created a consumer market for something that has been around for a while. I think the foresight here is using a mobile OS on a tablet versus a full OS.

    That's why the latest release of the iPhone 4s was such a disappointment, it was boring. Nothing exciting.
    Personal opinion no? That is shared by some no doubt. Others appreciated the new phone; the sales numbers seem to back this up.

    This is the reality of new product releases just like someone stated earlier. Apple has marketed hype for so long that they are shooting themselves in the foot. They can't possibly deliver for the long-term.
    Please explain to me how this release is indicative of them failing long term? As I've stated earlier, Apple doesn't push out complete redesigns every single year for their products. That's a production nightmare. It's better to have a design for a few years, upgrading the internals occasionally rather than re-do your entire product year after year.

    Again, most companies do this: it's cost effective and it helps when people are stuck in a 2 year cycle anyway.


    Apple customers are used to be told about something new that they just gotta have. The 4s didn't deliver and the iPhone 5 will probably be the same.
    I'm glad you can generalize all of iOS users in one mindset or basecamp. But let me guess, if I group all BB users to one stereotype, I'm being unfair right?

    And apparently you know more about the iPhone 5 than the rest of the world, because last I checked, no one knows what's really going on save a few engineers at CEO Cook. Please share with us your information, because my guess is your just pulling stuff out of the air.

    But I'll bet that the iPhone 5 sets a new record in sales as well. The hype will still be there to make sure it does but that hype won't carry Apple for long. Hype is temporary and so is the iPhone/iPad era.
    Of course hype is temporary, but it can be sustained so long as Apple continues to push out new, innovating products. Why do you think Motorola fell flat after the RAZR for a few years? Excellent product, hyped up.....and then they kept copying their design over and over and didn't innovate (sold on the hype). We know how the RAZR ultimately turned out after a few years.

    But again this is all speculation, so you saying the iPhone/iPad era will last until next year is me saying it will last 10 years: we both are not correct nor incorrect; it's pure speculation.

    And I don't claim that MY choice of device is technologically superior, I only claim that it's features and functionality of not shrouded in senseless hype. It just does what I need it to do based on my standards, not some slick marketing execs standards. I agree with the fact that the device we use is a matter of personal preference. I just think it's sad that many users (namely iPhone/iPad users) choose on principles of social acceptance rather than useful technology. But I guess this is true for many products. It's all just a matter of a particular person's standards in what they want. When I was a kid, I wanted the coolest car, not a practical car. Job's (RIP) said it himself: "since when to consumers know what they want". That statement does not apply to me.
    Ok, again, proof that many users choose on social acceptance rather than useful technology? You just contradicted yourself: personal preference vs. "useful" tech. You see, not everyone thinks all tech is useful; again, personal preferences.

    It boils down to the fact of what I said before: you are generalizing all iOS users to one mindset and one basecamp, which is hypocritical because I'm sure you'd get upset if I did the same with BB users.

    Once last thing. Marketing is most certainly necessary, especially in the competitive mobile market. I just think that a company should choose wisely how they choose to market their products because this method will stick with the product throughout it's lifespan. In other words, if you market hype, eventually you will lose since people ultimately want a product that solves practical problems, not one that makes them appear cool and trendy.
    I disagree. Let's go back to your previous statement about cool cars. Do some people buy practical cars? Absolutely. Do some people still lust over "cool" cars? Absolutely. At the end of the day, I still see Ferrari and Lamborghini in business, and let's face it, their cars are far from practical for a daily driver. Yet somehow they manage and continue to be successful.

    But on phones, though, if you think that iOS is only "cool" and "trendy" and doesn't attempt to facilitate a person's mobile life, well then yes you'd think that. If however you recognize that Apple attempts to balance ease of use alongside their marketing, then you'd realize why they haven't lost people over the past 5 generations of phones.
    Accidental Post and moiselles like this.
    10-11-11 01:52 PM
  2. wesware's Avatar
    By your failure to directly answer my question I take it that you don't have any substantial first hand experience with tablets, so let me enlighten you.

    It's called portability my friend. I take my tablet places I would NEVER take my laptop (or even a net-book), it's smaller, more lightweight, and easier to pack up and go. the screen us bigger and easier to read than a phone. Battery life in my Xoom is also better than any Android phone I have used (2 -3 days of use depending on how much I use it and what I am doing). People who want that larger screen than a cel phone offers love them. Additionally it is much easier to read, and just plain more comfortable sitting around the house or in bed than a laptop. It's easier to hold and position so I can see it and for most tasks I perform I don't even need the extra power of a laptop. If you asked someone who had a playbook I am guessing you'd get a similar answer. Have you read this? http://crackberry.com/how-blackberry...eplaced-laptop yet?

    Desktop PC's are all but dead these days replaced with laptops and tablet computers are the new laptop. I was skeptical to until I actually owned one but now I am wondering ** I am going to get through this week without my Xoom (sending it in for the 4G LTE upgrade).
    Don't need to spend the 500 bucks to prove what I already know. They can't replace a laptop, they can't make phone calls. My phone is portable and my laptop a portable, why add a third device that can't do the functions that I would use these two devices for simply for a bigger screen to watch videos (which I don't do on my PC anyway).

    And I did read that article the day it was posted. Alicia even admits that she had to go to her PC do get any real work done. In a pinch, I could use my smartphone to do everything she did in this article (except the Photoshop work of course). Bigger display is nice, but $500 bucks for an impractical method of getting things done. No thanks.

    How did this thread turn into a tablet debate anyway? I'm just not sold on the idea of a tablet. Trendy? Yes. Practical? No. To each their own. If you find your Xoom practical and productive then more power to you. A tablet just doesn't fit my lifestyle now. Thanks for the enlightenment though!
    10-11-11 01:56 PM
  3. moiselles's Avatar
    '

    They were expecting:

    - a large screen (didn't get it)
    - more powerful processor and more memory (got those)
    - better cameras (got those)
    - a different back -- i.e. not glass (didn't get it)
    - a better redesigned antenna system to rectify antenna-gate (didn't get it but Apple's marketing spin makes most people think they did. It had nothing to do with switching antennas and everything to do with shorting out BOTH antennas if you touched them in the wrong places.)

    and last but certainly not least

    - they expected to be WOWED!

    and they weren't.

    The only thing truly wowing about the new phone is Siri, a feature they are only making available on the 4S but in all likelihood would work just fine on the 4, but they are holding it back to make people buy the new hardware. The rest of iOS5 (which we had already seen anyway) is just catching up to Android and Blackberry.
    The thing is, I don't want my screen to be much bigger, because I wouldn't want to carry a giant phone around with me. But then again, that's my preference and I certainly don't speak for the other millions of iPhone users.

    Your comment about iOS5 "catch up" to BlackBerry really doesn't make sense. I don't see how iOS5 is "catching up" to BlackBerry, I think it's actually very much the opposite and so would most other people on this forum, even many BlackBerry fans.

    In all honesty, it's like comparing Apples to Oranges, they are both a fruit, but entirely different, which is how iPhone and BlackBerry are. Androids, to me, seem to be a step closer to iPhones (maybe they are Grapples?). I personally wouldn't touch an Android as I find their outside design to be quite ugly even if the product was great.

    So for me, my choices in smartphones are either the iPhone or BlackBerry. And while I enjoyed my Torch and it worked well and is very durable, the iPhone has more of what I want out of a phone for me now. Could this change in a year or two? Absolutely, but until then iPhone has my attention.

    It's just personal preference. Everyone is different and likes different things and wants different things out of their smartphones.
    greyhd, DPSydBerry and kilroy2730 like this.
    10-11-11 02:03 PM
  4. Accidental Post's Avatar
    Lets see this is how Apple sells phones

    iPhone 2007
    Iphone3g 2008
    Iphone3gs 2009
    Iphone4 2010
    Iphone4s 2011

    Now lets break this down to marketing and carriers 2 years deals.

    Person A buys OG iPhone then naturally upgrades to the 3gs. then the 4s.

    Person B buys iPhone 3g then upgrades to Iphone4 next upgrade for them will be after WWDC.

    Simple but brilliant marketing.
    10-11-11 02:04 PM
  5. soccernamlak's Avatar
    Your comment about iOS5 "catch up" to BlackBerry really doesn't make sense. I don't see how iOS5 is "catching up" to BlackBerry, I think it's actually very much the opposite and so would most other people on this forum, even many BlackBerry fans.
    I think the catching up aspect is things concerning security, notifications, and iMessage (going after BB security, BB/Android notifications, and BBM). Which I'll admit iOS needed sooner rather than later. I think BBOS has catching up to do as well. Fun fact: no OS is perfect, and as you said moiselles, it's all about personal preference in the end.
    10-11-11 02:09 PM
  6. moiselles's Avatar
    I think the catching up aspect is things concerning security, notifications, and iMessage (going after BB security, BB/Android notifications, and BBM). Which I'll admit iOS needed sooner rather than later. I think BBOS has catching up to do as well. Fun fact: no OS is perfect, and as you said moiselles, it's all about personal preference in the end.
    I'd agree with you on those points. The security of BlackBerry is great, but let's face it... I'm not a celebrity who is expecting her phone to be hacked and have illicit photos leaked all over the tabloids. Do I keep certain personal things on my phone like passwords? Absolutely. I also don't use my phone for work and don't have client information on it, so for me, security isn't a top priority like it would be for people who use their phones for business. I'll put a password on the phone itself and check out the FindMyPhone app to see what it encompasses as far as security features.

    BBM is definitely fun, but I removed almost everyone off of BBM except for my mom, sister, and one or two of my girl friends. No one else I know has a BlackBerry. My husband and every person in his family (mom, dad, and three brothers) all use iPhone. I'm sure I'll enjoy using iMessage, but with unlimited texting plans, it's not a necessity either. I could live without BBM and iMessage.

    And I will miss my little blinking LED light, but I had a 3GS before so it's not anything I'm not used to having.

    What I am excited about is a super fast OS, Siri, FaceTime (my husband is in the military and is gone a lot and this would be nice for the two of us to have), a beautiful display and graphics, and an easy to use, simple OS. And no battery pulls.

    But then again, those are just MY personal preferences.
    Chrisy, nelz16 and kilroy2730 like this.
    10-11-11 02:23 PM
  7. wesware's Avatar
    Tablets have been around for years, but they've always been (typically) an expensive machine running a full blown desktop software. Apple realized it could go the opposite route: make a large phone basically. Combine that with a low price point (compared to other tablets), and they created a consumer market for something that has been around for a while. I think the foresight here is using a mobile OS on a tablet versus a full OS.
    Still expensive and using a mobile os compared to desktop and finessing previous touch screen technology is not what i would consider innovative. Nice, but not innovative. How may iPad users (or other tablet users) care whether the os is mobile of desktop? Most don't even realize that touch screen technology has been around for years. Popluarized by Apple's marketing.

    Please explain to me how this release is indicative of them failing long term? As I've stated earlier, Apple doesn't push out complete redesigns every single year for their products. That's a production nightmare. It's better to have a design for a few years, upgrading the internals occasionally rather than re-do your entire product year after year.
    Thought I did. Trendy is temporary. Practicality and functionality is long-term. That's common sense.


    And apparently you know more about the iPhone 5 than the rest of the world, because last I checked, no one knows what's really going on save a few engineers at CEO Cook. Please share with us your information, because my guess is your just pulling stuff out of the air.

    Of course hype is temporary, but it can be sustained so long as Apple continues to push out new, innovating products. Why do you think Motorola fell flat after the RAZR for a few years? Excellent product, hyped up.....and then they kept copying their design over and over and didn't innovate (sold on the hype). We know how the RAZR ultimately turned out after a few years.
    Apple may come up with a truly innovative product with the iPhone 5. Who knows? Not really any old, unpopular technology to hype up and recreate now so they really have no choice but to do so. They are not immune to fluctuations in the market anymore than other manufacturers. Long-term success depends on practical, problem-solving technology. In the end, there is nothing truly unique about the device other than the hype and recreated technology.


    Ok, again, proof that many users choose on social acceptance rather than useful technology? You just contradicted yourself: personal preference vs. "useful" tech. You see, not everyone thinks all tech is useful; again, personal preferences.
    Using a product because it is cool and trendy is not a personal preference in my opinion. It is mass peer pressure. Being cool or trendy is not a real standard, just a fruitless search for identity. Most learn this in their late teens.

    It boils down to the fact of what I said before: you are generalizing all iOS users to one mindset and one basecamp, which is hypocritical because I'm sure you'd get upset if I did the same with BB users.
    I would have the same opinions with any other manufacturer, including BlackBerry. My point is that buying based on hype does not reflect any real standards from a user on what he or she needs. Know what you want and need, research the options, and buy your device accordingly. I don't think Apple promotes this with their products; only hype.



    I disagree. Let's go back to your previous statement about cool cars. Do some people buy practical cars? Absolutely. Do some people still lust over "cool" cars? Absolutely. At the end of the day, I still see Ferrari and Lamborghini in business, and let's face it, their cars are far from practical for a daily driver. Yet somehow they manage and continue to be successful.
    The point of my argument is not to be just successful. There are many mobile device vendors in the market that are successful. The key is to be successful in the long term. RIM has been around much longer than Apple has in the smartphone industry. Their success has not been based on short-term hype, but innovation and practicality that gives users what they need in the long-term. That's why I believe that they will continue to be successful after the iPhone/iPad hype is over.
    10-11-11 02:33 PM
  8. Shlooky's Avatar
    There are a lot of factors why the i4S is selling so well...

    1-Those who still have the 3G and the 3GS would want to upgrade because it's a huge step for them.

    2-Those who like the fact that the new phone has great optics for photo's and video recording

    3-Dual core CPU/GPU is huge, just look at the benchmarks!

    4-It's the last iPhone during Steve Jobs era.

    5-It doesn't have the Antenna issue, so no need for a case

    6-Siri

    7-64GB or memory

    Yeah I too was expecting an iPhone with a bigger screen and LTE but my 3GS is starting to show it's age, even after I upgrade it to iOS5 half of the features won't be available to me.
    Anyway, I don't think it's a flop, it's a matter of perspective I guess.
    10-11-11 03:18 PM
  9. YourMobileGuru's Avatar
    Ok, again, proof that many users choose on social acceptance rather than useful technology? You just contradicted yourself: personal preference vs. "useful" tech. You see, not everyone thinks all tech is useful; again, personal preferences.

    It boils down to the fact of what I said before: you are generalizing all iOS users to one mindset and one basecamp, which is hypocritical because I'm sure you'd get upset if I did the same with BB users.
    Gotta jump in here. It may not be ALL iOS users but it is a healthy percentage of them from what I have seen (and I work in the field). Yes there are the iOS users who know all about their phones and their features and the upgrades, but then there are the non techie people who have iPhones and don't even use a fraction of what they can do. They make calls, occasionally send texts or go online once in a blue moon, maybe just maybe use the GPS but they not only have one iPhone but both of the members of a couple have them and but also upgrade every year or every other year. They buy it because of the hype, or at least in the case of a couple elderly people I sold them to, their kids and grand-kids told them to get them. These same people don't have the slightest idea what data plan they have on their line, or even if they have insurance. They would get just as much use out of a flip phone for as much as they use it but they get an iPhone instead. I've seen this with my own eyes, as have several of my friends in the field. As stated before the whole iPhone phenomenon is unique and defies explanation. You accuse him of generalizing iOS users but you generalize them the opposite way. There is a whole field of user types and thus the mass appeal.
    10-11-11 05:01 PM
  10. soccernamlak's Avatar
    Still expensive and using a mobile os compared to desktop and finessing previous touch screen technology is not what i would consider innovative. Nice, but not innovative. How may iPad users (or other tablet users) care whether the os is mobile of desktop? Most don't even realize that touch screen technology has been around for years. Popluarized by Apple's marketing.



    Thought I did. Trendy is temporary. Practicality and functionality is long-term. That's common sense.




    Apple may come up with a truly innovative product with the iPhone 5. Who knows? Not really any old, unpopular technology to hype up and recreate now so they really have no choice but to do so. They are not immune to fluctuations in the market anymore than other manufacturers. Long-term success depends on practical, problem-solving technology. In the end, there is nothing truly unique about the device other than the hype and recreated technology.




    Using a product because it is cool and trendy is not a personal preference in my opinion. It is mass peer pressure. Being cool or trendy is not a real standard, just a fruitless search for identity. Most learn this in their late teens.



    I would have the same opinions with any other manufacturer, including BlackBerry. My point is that buying based on hype does not reflect any real standards from a user on what he or she needs. Know what you want and need, research the options, and buy your device accordingly. I don't think Apple promotes this with their products; only hype.





    The point of my argument is not to be just successful. There are many mobile device vendors in the market that are successful. The key is to be successful in the long term. RIM has been around much longer than Apple has in the smartphone industry. Their success has not been based on short-term hype, but innovation and practicality that gives users what they need in the long-term. That's why I believe that they will continue to be successful after the iPhone/iPad hype is over.
    I think I'll leave it at that and say agree to disagree; I don't think you'll grasp that Apple makes products that are functional and you probably think I won't grasp that Apple is pure hype.
    10-11-11 05:02 PM
  11. soccernamlak's Avatar
    Gotta jump in here. It may not be ALL iOS users but it is a healthy percentage of them from what I have seen (and I work in the field). Yes there are the iOS users who know all about their phones and their features and the upgrades, but then there are the non techie people who have iPhones and don't even use a fraction of what they can do. They make calls, occasionally send texts or go online once in a blue moon, maybe just maybe use the GPS but they not only have one iPhone but both of the members of a couple have them and but also upgrade every year or every other year. They buy it because of the hype, or at least in the case of a couple elderly people I sold them to, their kids and grand-kids told them to get them. These same people don't have the slightest idea what data plan they have on their line, or even if they have insurance. They would get just as much use out of a flip phone for as much as they use it but they get an iPhone instead. I've seen this with my own eyes, as have several of my friends in the field. As stated before the whole iPhone phenomenon is unique and defies explanation. You accuse him of generalizing iOS users but you generalize them the opposite way. There is a whole field of user types and thus the mass appeal.
    Personal experiences vary, I'll admit, but I still don't think you can set a generalization of such across a very, very wide band of users.

    And I'm not generalizing the opposite way either; I"m saying there are groups of various people, each who have different priorities in a cell phone. Do some love specs? Yes. Do some buy into the hype? Yes. Do some just want a phone to make calls? Yes. But it's all three for every OS, not just one group.
    10-11-11 05:04 PM
  12. YourMobileGuru's Avatar
    Your comment about iOS5 "catch up" to BlackBerry really doesn't make sense. I don't see how iOS5 is "catching up" to BlackBerry, I think it's actually very much the opposite and so would most other people on this forum, even many BlackBerry fans.
    iMessage is an attempt to copy BBM and to a lesser degree Google Talk; and the new notifications system is a copy of what Android has had since the beginning and even BB has had the ability to put every notification inside the common inbox for as long as I have been using them, with iOS it has always been app by app on popup on top of popup.... a huge mess.
    10-11-11 05:08 PM
  13. Chrisy's Avatar
    Damn, that must be a good phone!
    10-11-11 05:18 PM
  14. laurah2215's Avatar
    I know that carriers and the Apple store usually have a hard time keeping them in stock after a launch. Probably be the case with this one, as well.
    10-11-11 06:28 PM
  15. YourMobileGuru's Avatar
    I know that carriers and the Apple store usually have a hard time keeping them in stock after a launch. Probably be the case with this one, as well.
    Oh I am sure it will... Apple no doubt engineers it that way to help maintain the hype as well...
    10-11-11 06:39 PM
  16. MKSIX's Avatar
    the only thing ill say is that i got 9 blackberry's in the pass and they were all ok device other than 5 reboots a day

    I bought my first iPhone 4 and never looked back , i'm not trying to be cool or use it to find new friends... i just love this device and mostly everything Apple puts out there !!!!

    Its a good solid phone with a solid OS
    10-11-11 07:13 PM
  17. dalton4L's Avatar
    Oh I am sure it will... Apple no doubt engineers it that way to help maintain the hype as well...
    It has nothing to do with a planned shortage, it has to do with such high demand.
    moiselles likes this.
    10-11-11 07:37 PM
  18. Accidental Post's Avatar
    Apple actual had to get a second manufacturer to keep up with the anticipated demand. Some crazy number like 10k a day were being built.
    10-11-11 08:08 PM
  19. YourMobileGuru's Avatar
    the only thing ill say is that i got 9 blackberry's in the pass and they were all ok device other than 5 reboots a day

    I bought my first iPhone 4 and never looked back , i'm not trying to be cool or use it to find new friends... i just love this device and mostly everything Apple puts out there !!!!

    Its a good solid phone with a solid OS
    If you had any BB that had 5 reboots a day then you had a defective unit OR a Storm 1 or unstable apps. A BB should never have that problem.

    It has nothing to do with a planned shortage, it has to do with such high demand.
    Apple actual had to get a second manufacturer to keep up with the anticipated demand. Some crazy number like 10k a day were being built.
    It's both. Apple has the resources to have as many units as are needed ready ahead of the demand and yet they don't year after year. Yes they have high demand for the phone thanks to the massive marketing machine but they also also engineer shortages to keep the hype going.
    10-11-11 08:45 PM
  20. dalton4L's Avatar
    It's both. Apple has the resources to have as many units as are needed ready ahead of the demand and yet they don't year after year. Yes they have high demand for the phone thanks to the massive marketing machine but they also also engineer shortages to keep the hype going.
    That's purely speculation, and I do not agree with it.

    If this were the case, why is demand still the highest of all Apple competitors even after Apple catches up with demand?
    10-11-11 09:20 PM
  21. ADGrant's Avatar
    But it still looks the same, how lame.

    J/K
    How shallow of you to care. It still looks better than any other cell phone on the market (even if it does shatter when dropped).
    10-11-11 09:34 PM
  22. ADGrant's Avatar
    Exactly. IPhone users abroad complained about the lame improvements of the 4s. Then set a new sales record buying it up. I'm not a hater, just practical. If a device isn't a substantial improvement over what I'm currently using, I'm not forkin out hundreds of $ for it. I don't buy hype.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    It probably is asubstantial improvement over what you are currently using.
    10-11-11 09:41 PM
  23. ADGrant's Avatar
    Believe it or not, I am not a hater. I just feel that the iPhone is incredibly over-rated. Touch screen technology was not an innovation with the iPhone, it just wasn't popular yet. Tablets have been around for years, they just weren't popular yet. Apple has truly set a new standard in marketing by making these products "gotta haves". But don't mistake that for innovation. That's why the latest release of the iPhone 4s was such a disappointment, it was boring. Nothing exciting. This is the reality of new product releases just like someone stated earlier. Apple has marketed hype for so long that they are shooting themselves in the foot. They can't possibly deliver for the long-term. Apple customers are used to be told about something new that they just gotta have. The 4s didn't deliver and the iPhone 5 will probably be the same. But I'll bet that the iPhone 5 sets a new record in sales as well. The hype will still be there to make sure it does but that hype won't carry Apple for long. Hype is temporary and so is the iPhone/iPad era.
    You are temporary also (we all are). The iPhone/iPad will doubtless disappear eventually but probably long after the Playbook and Blackberry smart phones do.

    You may feel the iPhone and iPad are overrated but clearly the ma
    10-11-11 09:59 PM
  24. zwoof's Avatar
    But it still looks the same, how lame.

    J/K
    I hope they don't change the look. The glass front and back make it a great looking phone. The screen size is perfect. Any bigger, it'll feel like lugging around a brick.
    moiselles likes this.
    10-11-11 10:05 PM
  25. YourMobileGuru's Avatar
    That's purely speculation, and I do not agree with it.

    If this were the case, why is demand still the highest of all Apple competitors even after Apple catches up with demand?
    Apple is the second most valuable company in the world, trust me they could afford to have enough units to meet demand if they chose to. Demand is still high because they use their marketing and supply chain power to stretch out the sales of the phone well past the original release date. Some people give up on getting one during times of peak demand and instead wait a few months. Additionally Apple arranges "early upgrade" arrangements with their carrier partners to allow people to upgrade up to a year earlier than they are entitled to according to their contract in exchange for paying $200 more for the phone. No other OEM does this and it further sells the idea that the iPhone is some kind of superior product.

    Everything we all say here is speculation, and you don't have to agree with it, but withholding your agreement does not make it any less accurate.
    10-11-11 10:50 PM
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