09-26-10 02:48 PM
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  1. sivan's Avatar
    You were saying.....



    I already saw these. The second video is a "death grip", we know it's common.

    The first video shows one finger, but it covers half the side of the phone. I'm talking about just touching the black strip with the tip of a finger. Why? Because people usually hold the phone with the ring finger tip supporting that area.
    07-20-10 08:52 PM
  2. bloodofjupiter's Avatar
    I already saw these. The second video is a "death grip", we know it's common.

    The first video shows one finger, but it covers half the side of the phone. I'm talking about just touching the black strip with the tip of a finger. Why? Because people usually hold the phone with the ring finger tip supporting that area.
    I beg to differ, the second video although called "deathgrip" is how most people hold their phones.

    The first video clearly shows that touching the bottom left corner , like the iphone4 will cause the signal to degrade. Just because the phone doesn't have a visible x marks the spot, like the iP4, doesn't mean it doesn't have the same problem.
    07-20-10 09:10 PM
  3. bloodofjupiter's Avatar
    On another note, here is a video of a iP4 with mega death grip and NO signal degradation whatsoever.

    What defect?

    07-20-10 09:13 PM
  4. sivan's Avatar
    I beg to differ, the second video although called "deathgrip" is how most people hold their phones.
    If that's how they hold the phone then we would see that making calls on any phone is very hard.

    The first video clearly shows that touching the bottom left corner , like the iphone4 will cause the signal to degrade. Just because the phone doesn't have a visible x marks the spot, like the iP4, doesn't mean it doesn't have the same problem.
    No, it only takes a tip of the finger, the ring finger is very commonly placed precisely where the black mark is. The holding position in that video is contrived.
    07-20-10 09:14 PM
  5. sivan's Avatar
    On another note, here is a video of a iP4 with mega death grip and NO signal degradation whatsoever.

    What defect?

    There is no spoon.
    07-20-10 09:14 PM
  6. RetroAndreas's Avatar
    I just did a death grip on my Bold 9000. Guess what, my bars went down too.

    Now what?
    I don't know why people have no idea what the apple antenna issue is about after knowledgeable people here keep explaining it?

    Oh well :-(
    07-20-10 09:24 PM
  7. bloodofjupiter's Avatar
    If that's how they hold the phone then we would see that making calls on any phone is very hard.



    No, it only takes a tip of the finger, the ring finger is very commonly placed precisely where the black mark is. The holding position in that video is contrived.
    I don't know who it is you think you're fooling, you like twisting things in any possible way to favor you,unfortunately for you , you've lost this one.

    So where did you get the evidence that anyone holding an iPhone 4 will PRECISELY have their ring finger hitting the black mark. Show me, I'll be waiting......

    We can go round in circles, but I think I'll pass, you're a complete waste of time who clearly has an agenda.

    ALL phones have weak spots, live with it,and don't you dare buy anything with a defect.
    07-20-10 09:34 PM
  8. sivan's Avatar
    I went to the Apple store myself and touched the black mark and was able to pause all data connections.

    That is also the test Consumer Reports carried out.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-20-10 09:46 PM
  9. LazyStarGazer's Avatar
    Part of the reason this affects a small percentage of users is that you have to hold the phone in your left hand. Apparently, MOST right handed people will hold their device in their right hand, thereby NOT triggering this issue.

    This issue is most likely to occur for left handed individuals, or ambidextrous weirdos like me.
    If 10% of the population is left handed, then out of the 3 million sold, 300,000 people could potentially be affected by this.

    But wait, theres more...
    80% of iPhone 3gs owners use a case. No reason to assume that would change for iP4, so...

    300,000 @ 80% = 60,000 users could potentially be affected by this.


    60,000 divided by 3 million = 2% of iPhone 4 owners may experience this issue.

    OOOPS! Almost forgot! You have to be in a weak signal area too. I'll be extreme and say that the average user is in a weak signal area half the time.

    We are now down to 1% of users may be affected by this issue.

    OH MY GOD! IT'S AN EPIDEMIC!!!!

    Synth:
    Yes, this is a design flaw, but one that will affect only a tiny minority of users.
    Last edited by LazyStarGazer; 07-21-10 at 12:11 AM.
    07-20-10 11:30 PM
  10. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    LazyStarGazer,

    Your math is wrong. 60,000 of 3,000,000 is actually 2%.
    07-20-10 11:49 PM
  11. LazyStarGazer's Avatar
    LazyStarGazer,

    Your math is wrong. 60,000 of 3,000,000 is actually 2%.
    Well, that's possible. I've had a couple glasses of wine. That's enough to make my math sloppy. Let me double check.

    Ah yes. 0.02 = 2%, NOT 0.02%.

    MY BAD!!

    I will now correct that post.

    Edit:
    1%... still a joke.
    Last edited by LazyStarGazer; 07-21-10 at 12:13 AM.
    07-21-10 12:10 AM
  12. stuaw11's Avatar
    Of course its a joke and an extremely small % of people who will even notice this or be truly affected by it (as in dropping calls).

    Fear mongers who dont even own the damn thing just like to make one little possibility of maybe seeing a flaw into some type on pandemic that "OMG this phone sucks no one buy it its horrible horrible horrible, worst ever!!" for their own sh*ts and giggles or whatever drives them to go out of their way do so.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 07-21-10 at 12:33 AM.
    07-21-10 12:28 AM
  13. sivan's Avatar
    Part of the reason this affects a small percentage of users is that you have to hold the phone in your left hand. Apparently, MOST right handed people will hold their device in their right hand, thereby NOT triggering this issue.

    This issue is most likely to occur for left handed individuals, or ambidextrous weirdos like me.
    If 10% of the population is left handed, then out of the 3 million sold, 300,000 people could potentially be affected by this.

    But wait, theres more...
    80% of iPhone 3gs owners use a case. No reason to assume that would change for iP4, so...

    300,000 @ 80% = 60,000 users could potentially be affected by this.


    60,000 divided by 3 million = 2% of iPhone 4 owners may experience this issue.

    OOOPS! Almost forgot! You have to be in a weak signal area too. I'll be extreme and say that the average user is in a weak signal area half the time.

    We are now down to 1% of users may be affected by this issue.

    OH MY GOD! IT'S AN EPIDEMIC!!!!

    Synth:
    Yes, this is a design flaw, but one that will affect only a tiny minority of users.
    Well, I hold it in my right hand with the ring finger right on that area. And if I use it in my left hand then the palm supports that area. It's just too easy to touch that area unintentionally. It's a usability problem.

    The number games are entertaining but beside the point.

    I do want to raise a question about why so many iPhone users buy cases, and how it compares to other smartphones. My hunch, I don't have any figures, is that the iPhone 4 is just the most extreme in a line of designs that emphasize style over durability. It's optimal for a product to be designed from the start for durability in stock form rather than requiring add-ons such as a case.

    I'm looking at my Bold 9700. Its back is rubberized plastic, the antenna is internal, the screen is made of flexible plastic. I see no reason to use a case with it (I rarely drop my phone in any case), reception is great. Of course, there are some who do use a case with it, but I very much doubt it's anywhere near 80%.

    Placed side by side with the 9700, of course the iPhone looks sexy with an all metallic and glass construction and impressively thin profile. And that's the product image that appeals to consumers. But at the end, someone who buys an iPhone is far more likely to end up with a bulky rubber bumper enclosed device once they step out of the store. So who really has the thin and slick device when all is said and done?

    Apple saw the 80% figure of iPhone owners using a case and its response was to get in on the action. A more customer centered response would have been to make the device more rugged. 80% is a red flag that the majority of customers perceive the device as fragile, even if they still want it.
    07-21-10 12:44 AM
  14. stuaw11's Avatar
    Because anyone who wants a Mattel Toy looking rubber and plastic phone that youd give to a 3 year old to play with got a BB already.

    The iphone doesnt NEED a case and never has if you take normal care of it. Personally I use a case to keep it from getting any type of scratches which maintains resale value as well as a little extra grip. There are TONS of BB users who use skins and cases too. Id bet any mod could find out and vouch for the Crackberry store sales numbers that the #1 selling product is cases.

    Just stop nitpicking; now its fragile and needs a case. You dont even know what youre trying to bash on anymore other than finding something someone will actually agree with you on. I think you just proved my previous point precisely.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 07-21-10 at 01:05 AM.
    07-21-10 01:03 AM
  15. sivan's Avatar
    Because anyone who wants a Mattel Toy looking rubber and plastic phone that youd give to a 3 year old to play with got a BB already.

    The iphone doesnt NEED a case and never has if you take normal care of it. Personally I use a case to keep it from getting any type of scratches which maintains resale value as well as a little extra grip. There are TONS of BB users who use skins and cases too. Id bet any mod could find out and vouch for the Crackberry store sales numbers that the #1 selling product is cases.
    I'd be very interested to know if it's anywhere near iPhone users. But aside from that, just looking at the construction, a rubberized back doesn't get scratched and the flexible plastic screen will survive drops much more than glass. It's much easier to forgo a case with the 9700.

    In the end, your iPhone is in a bulky case because it's too precious, and now even reception is a reason to use a case. The only time you got to see how beautiful it is was when you took it out of the box. It sold you on it, but now it's just a bulky device.
    07-21-10 01:53 AM
  16. stuaw11's Avatar
    I couldnt care how "sexy" it looks, I use it because its functional, the apps, etc, and not some trophy piece for everyone to see. I bought an iphone 4 for the big upgrade in specs, not what it looks like.

    Again, MANY BB users use cases too so its beyond a moot point. Both phones can survive just fine without cases, and the majority of people with both phones like to keep their phones looking nice and use a case. The solution for drops is DONT DROP IT. People abuse their phones period, much more than anyone here would believe and then wonder why they crack and chip. I cant tell you the last time I dropped a phone, at LEAST 5 years or more. Its just about treating it like the expensive piece of electronics it is.

    But the iphone (at least the 4) isnt as fragile as one thinks. It took a good 4 drops waist high on concrete in tests ( ) to get the glass to crack, right perfectly flat on the glass mind you. Im sure some break the first time but theyre pretty strong if youre not an id**t with the phone dropping it over and over on concrete. One accidental drop wont usually crack anything.

    And besides, its merely an assumption everyone who bought a case uses it every day the whole time they have the phone. Just because 80% walked out with one (which I find hard to believe to begin with) it doesnt mean they all used that case or still do. I dont use my case every day either just because I have one, it depends on the day and how many pockets I have (ie. wearing a suit, no need for a bulky case).

    But this is getting way off topic now.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 07-21-10 at 02:20 AM.
    07-21-10 02:00 AM
  17. titusilvering's Avatar
    Ip4 is really a piece of ****ty antenna.

    Apple been showing all videos of other phones on how other phones bars drop but they never prove a single case of call drop.

    Never in the history of mankind we ever hear so much complaints of call drop on a phone. Ip4 is the 1st.

    Ok we all give in to you all apple supporters ok? All phones have problems ok? But ip4 is crown king of antennagate!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-21-10 02:01 AM
  18. sivan's Avatar
    I couldnt care how "sexy" it looks, I use it because its functional, the apps, etc, and not some trophy piece for everyone to see.

    Again, MANY BB users use cases too so its beyond a moot point. Both phones can survive just fine without cases, and the majority of people with both phonese like to keep their phones looking nice and use a case.
    But if the device ends up in a case, what is the fancy glass shell and steel antenna perimeter for? Why make an impractical design that forces people to wrap it in a case?
    07-21-10 02:09 AM
  19. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Apple saw the 80% figure of iPhone owners using a case and its response was to get in on the action. A more customer centered response would have been to make the device more rugged. 80% is a red flag that the majority of customers perceive the device as fragile, even if they still want it.
    I think people in general, like cases for their phones. I know about..... 50 people who carry smartphones (all kinds), and off the top of my head, I can't think of a single one of them who doesn't use a case. I think I might be the only person I know of who doesn't use some kind of case for his phone.

    Reasons for using a case vary quite a bit I believe. Most women carry phones in their purse, so using a case doesn't make it any more bulkier to carry around, and I believe a lot of them like the personalization aspect of a case. Thus I see a lot of women carrying them in various colors. Maybe it's just where I live, for some reason, I think a disproportionate number of housewives in my neighborhood carry iPhones and Blackberries.

    A lot of guys use cases because they don't like carrying phones in their pockets. This is especially true of recent Android phones, all 5 guys I know who have them use some kind of belt case. The guys with company issued BBs all have a case because they all got issued one with the phone. There's also some people who like to keep their phone in "mint" condition, for either resale value or personal preference. I don't use a case and the back of my 3GS looks like crap.

    As for fragility, he11 ya the iPhone is fragile. It's got a glass touchscreen. One bad drop and it's $199 at the Apple Store. It's a trade off though, nice clear touchscreen (oleophobic too), but it'll crack like an eggshell if you drop it on concrete. The i4 should be more durable though, with gorilla glass (or similar) for the touchscreen. My understanding is that the back is just regular glass, but easy to replace if broken. This issue though, isn't unique to iPhone. All Android phones AFAIK also have glass screens, and those things are selling like hotcakes.
    Last edited by Roo Zilla; 07-21-10 at 02:24 AM.
    07-21-10 02:11 AM
  20. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    There are TONS of BB users who use skins and cases too. Id bet any mod could find out and vouch for the Crackberry store sales numbers that the #1 selling product is cases.
    Most of the older people I know with BBs got one from their company. At the same time, they also got issued a case. I remember commenting to one friend, "man that's an ugly case." He said, "company gave it to me with the phone." I don't know if this is common practice but I would think any large corporation would get some kind of "perk" with their bulk BB purchases.
    07-21-10 02:15 AM
  21. stuaw11's Avatar
    Most of the older people I know with BBs got one from their company. At the same time, they also got issued a case. I remember commenting to one friend, "man that's an ugly case." He said, "company gave it to me with the phone." I don't know if this is common practice but I would think any large corporation would get some kind of "perk" with their bulk BB purchases.
    Well Id be willing to bet the mentality (whether free or purchased cases) was since the company shells out the money for the phones they want them protected from being broken all the time and having to shell out more for new ones.


    Even for consumers, would you rather have a $20 case on or pay the $7/month insurance and $150 deductible. Its a no-brainer. You take risks when you dont use a case on any phone honestly.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 07-21-10 at 02:29 AM.
    07-21-10 02:23 AM
  22. stuaw11's Avatar
    As for fragility, he11 ya the iPhone is fragile. It's got a glass touchscreen. One bad drop and it's $199 at the Apple Store. It's a trade off though, nice clear touchscreen (oleophobic too), but it'll crack like an eggshell if you drop it on concrete. The i4 should be more durable though, with gorilla glass for the touchscreen. My understanding is that the back is just regular glass, but easy to replace if broken. This issue though, isn't unique to iPhone. All Android phones AFAIK also have glass screens, and those things are selling like hotcakes.
    Very true, but of course the test in the link I posted showed 4 drops on concrete. Thats pretty darn durable for glass on both sides if you ask me. I think most of the cracking issues is true abuse of the phone in most cases (of course some do crack the first drop but Id be willing to bet that number is pretty low).


    And yes, this isnt solely an iphone thing as people like to point the blame finger. Drop any touchscreen a few times (even, yes a BB in the Storm) and the screen will crack. Bigger screen with more real estate, more chance or cracking. Its basic properties of materials and physics.
    07-21-10 02:25 AM
  23. amrk47's Avatar



    the iphone 4 is truly a joke
    07-21-10 02:44 AM
  24. pilsbury's Avatar
    I like my joke.
    07-21-10 05:29 AM
  25. mrsadkins9399's Avatar
    I like my iPhone too. I was a bb user for 2 years and after using the iPhone,I will never go back to a BB.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-21-10 05:39 AM
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