[sivan]

It comes down to numbers. 80% of iPhone 3GS buyers also bought a case at the same time they bought the phone. That probably means greater than 80% use cases with their previous iPhones as a lot of people buy them afterwards. I would expect similar for the i4, once there is sufficient supply of cases/bumpers. Also, lately, I've seen something like a band-aid for sale which should work just as well. As for detracting from the aesthetics of the device, I see women carry iPhones in hot pink, lime green, and baby blue cases that almost make me want to barf. They think it's cute as he11 though. I also see guys carry em in something that resembles body armor that makes the phones twice as thick. These guys swear by their cases too. For these people, touching the spot really has no significance.

Out of the remainder, a large number won't have issues anyway because they are in a strong signal area. This is especially true for the expected greater than 50% of buyers outside the USA. In general, the USA has pretty poor wireless signal compared to comparable places in Europe or Asia.

Out of the remainder of those, there will also be a significant number who naturally won't touch the spot when calling. I hold my phone with my left hand, but no part of my hand rests near the bottom left. I think most right handed people won't have a problem either.

Out of the remainder who don't fall into any of the previous categories, they'll just deal with it. They'll either change their grip to avoid the spot, or they'll flip it around if they're using it in landscape.

Basically, the vast majority of iPhone 4 buyers won't even be aware of the issue (unless they watch Letterman), let alone be a problem for them.

The people that are left? They'll return the phone, which is probably about 1.7%.

Great post, though I obviously don't think it answers my question. I'm calling this a defective design. That many people are willing to work around it is a separate matter.

It's an interesting subject concerning Apple, because it's consistent with Apple's history of innovating on aesthetics and arguing that they are inseparable from function. In this instance I think they overreached.

[sivan]

iPhone 4 isn't the first iPhone with radio problems. If I touch a spot near the top right of my 3GS or my former 3G with my finger, it kills my WiFi reception if I'm in a weak WiFi area, if the indicator shows 1 quarter circle. Data stops transacting. The funny thing is, my natural hand position when holding it in landscape mode, which is how I usually use the browser, rests on the sensitive spot. It's annoying, but I deal with it by taking my finger off the spot.

Interesting. I did not follow this problem and don't know how widely it was reported at the time.

I still think though that cell reception is an essential part of a phone, and calls require a persistent connection that's less tolerant of blocked transmissions, and with the general anxiety of iPhone owners over dropped calls, I can see why this case is more noticeable.

[phonejunky]

But the thing is reception loss for average users isn't horrible, listening to the media outlet would misguide people to believe it is, but it clearly is not according to statistics. Most are saying they've had better reception then ever, and Apples customer satisfaction rate hasn't taken any huge blows either. So that's why I believe yes there is a problem but it isn't what the media would want you to believe.

[sivan]

But the thing is reception loss for average users isn't horrible, listening to the media outlet would misguide people to believe it is, but it clearly is not according to statistics. Most are saying they've had better reception then ever, and Apples customer satisfaction rate hasn't taken any huge blows either. So that's why I believe yes there is a problem but it isn't what the media would want you to believe.

Really? No one is saying that you can't make calls, people are discussing the problem in a straightforward manner. Consumer Reports is very clear on the matter.

[phonejunky]

What consumer reports said in a nutshell is that they can't recommend it because of it's antenna issues. Which Apple proved they aren't the only smartphone that suffers from this delima. So then what should consumer reports not recommend any smartphones with a death grip issue. I'm just taking it to an extreme as the media is doing with Apples case

[sivan]

You keep conflating signal attenuation which is shared by all cell phones with the unique iPhone 4's weak spot on the external frame, where even a casual and normal holding position (e.g. a touch of a single finger) will block the signal. The iPhone 4 is unique in that regard.

Consumer Reports liked the iPhone, they said so clearly. But Consumer Reports can't recommend a device with an obvious defect.

[phonejunky]

I'm sorry if I'm ignoring your consumer reports comments I'll address them now. The only reason I personally don't care about consumer reports in this argument is because they don't hold much weight over the type of customer Apple draws in. People who are buying the iPhone 4 aren't subscribing to consumer reports. Sad maybe but very true. Evidence of that is iPhone sales continually rising regardless of what had been written by them. You seem to be living and dying over an article that has already been forgotten in mainstream media.

[belfastdispatcher]

I've seen the facetime add at least 10 times tonight on tv, funny as they all seem to hold the iphone 4 in the "don't hold it that way" death grip. It's getting annoying, they play it way too often.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[sivan]

It doesn't matter how many people read Consumer Reports. The point is that they judged this to be a defect and it's unreasonable to expect them to recommend a device with a defect, irrespective of how much they liked it. They still gave it high marks, it just didn't make it to their recommended device list because it has a defect.

You posted this thread to say that this problem is shared by all phones. I clarified the distinction between general attenuation issues common to all cellphones and having a weak spot on a bare antenna susceptible to touch in normal use, which is unique to the iPhone.

Your response to this has been one of two: you either conflate the two separate problems or you claim that people don't care anyway.

[phonejunky]

I've seen the facetime add at least 10 times tonight on tv, funny as they all seem to hold the iphone 4 in the "don't hold it that way" death grip. It's getting annoying, they play it way too often.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

FaceTime is done over wifi the death grip wouldn't effect those calls anyway.

[phonejunky]

It doesn't matter how many people read Consumer Reports. The point is that they judged this to be a defect and it's unreasonable to expect them to recommend a device with a defect, irrespective of how much they liked it. They still gave it high marks, it just didn't make it to their recommended device list because it has a defect.

You posted this thread to say that this problem is shared by all phones. I clarified the distinction between general attenuation issues common to all cellphones and having a weak spot on a bare antenna susceptible to touch in normal use, which is unique to the iPhone.

Your response to this has been one of two: you either conflate the two separate problems or you claim that people don't care anyway.

Owners don't care synth. The people that own the iPhone 4's are happy with them. The people that don't are mad at Apple as if they did own them. And then there is that 1.7% that got a full refund now let's all smile. Now I know that isn't entirely true I'm being a bit extreme but in a nutshell the people doing most of te complaining don't even use the iPhone.

[sivan]

Maybe they don't care. We'll see.

But clearly, Apple sold them a defective product.

[pilsbury]

I dont care.

[phonejunky]

I dont care.

A overwhelming majority don't. For sone reason everyone that doesn't own one wants us to.

[stuaw11]

People dont care, the numbers speak for themselves. A 1.7% return rate is INCREDIBLY low for the sheer volume theyve sold already.

Caring more about Consumer Reports than real user opinions makes no sense at all. One person's opinion with the title Consumer Reports on it doesnt make it a more credible opinion towards what someone should or shouldnt choose to but versus a few million users who just arent returning them.

And I agree its quite disturbing people who doesnt even own the phone wants us to care so much about an article instead of letting it go and us being happy with what be bought with out own money after making an educated decision and not returning it.

[sivan]

Earlier in the thread I commented that sometimes the real world testimonies of actual owners are the least credible. There was some confusion about what I meant.

With the exception of Roo Zilla, owners in this thread denied any problem, and finally resorted to dismissing it, bypassing the issue altogether. I think that explains the concept.

[stuaw11]

Because were all sick of hearing about it and dont find it THAT big a deal to keep droning on and on about it. The real question is why you care so much if were happy with what we have and not having a huge issue with it. What you see as a deal breaking issue doesnt make it so for everyone else here.

[sivan]

Because were all sick of hearing about it and dont find it THAT big a deal to keep droning on and on about it. The real question is why you care so much if were happy with what we have and not having a huge issue with it. What you see as a deal breaking issue doesnt make it so for everyone else here.

Why do you think I care about this so much? I don't. CrackBerryBrandon posted a thread saying that all phones exhibit the same problem. I clarified that they in fact don't.

[bloodofjupiter]

Why do you think I care about this so much? I don't. CrackBerryBrandon posted a thread saying that all phones exhibit the same problem. I clarified that they in fact don't.

But they in fact do, you're trying to twist the arguement in your favour.

The only thing unique to the iPhone is the bare external antenna and ONLY that.

ALL phones have weak spots, get it ?

[stuaw11]

No offense but no one cares what you think, or anyone else, because people are going to buy what they want despite it. Its their money and theyre going to spend it as they see fit.

But sitting here saying over and over and over again how there's this huge earth shattering problem, which not every single user out there is experiencing, is jsut old by now. If it was so earth shattering, there wouldnt be only a 1.7% return rate.

So what exactly is your motive then going on and on about it? To convince as many people as u can not to buy one out of some kind of spite because you personally dont like the thing?

[ladybold]

I just did a death grip on my Bold 9000. Guess what, my bars went down too.

Now what?

[sivan]

But they in fact do, you're trying to twist the arguement in your favour.

The only thing unique to the iPhone is the bare external antenna and ONLY that.

ALL phones have weak spots, get it ?

All these manuals that were posted state that one should avoid placing fingers over such spots because reception would *degrade* and require the phone to use more power to maintain the connection.

In contrast the iPhone weak spot only requires a touch of the finger to block the signal. Additionally, that spot is located in a place where fingers usually rest. The manuals that point to weak spots, show them in less accessible locations, such as the back of the phone, top or bottom.

So the way to show that this is not unique to the iPhone is by demonstrating that other phones have such weak spots that are easily touched when holding the phone in a normal position. Lets see if such a demonstration exists, I haven't seen one yet.

[sivan]

No offense but no one cares what you think, or anyone else, because people are going to buy what they want despite it. Its their money and theyre going to spend it as they see fit.

But sitting here saying over and over and over again how there's this huge earth shattering problem, which not every single user out there is experiencing, is jsut old by now. If it was so earth shattering, there wouldnt be only a 1.7% return rate.

So what exactly is your motive then going on and on about it? To convince as many people as u can not to buy one out of some kind of spite because you personally dont like the thing?

No offence taken. By replying I know you do care. It is disappointing that you prefer to discuss me instead of the issue at hand.

This is interesting to me because it's a demonstration of form over function from a company that has historically generated controversy around this distinction. It's not that interesting to me to discuss it all day but people reply so I engage with them and try to explain and see what other points of view exist. No big deal.

[pilsbury]

No offense but no one cares what you think, or anyone else, because people are going to buy what they want despite it. Its their money and theyre going to spend it as they see fit.

But sitting here saying over and over and over again how there's this huge earth shattering problem, which not every single user out there is experiencing, is jsut old by now. If it was so earth shattering, there wouldnt be only a 1.7% return rate.

So what exactly is your motive then going on and on about it? To convince as many people as u can not to buy one out of some kind of spite because you personally dont like the thing?

+1 for this. This is getting old.

[bloodofjupiter]

All these manuals that were posted state that one should avoid placing fingers over such spots because reception would *degrade* and require the phone to use more power to maintain the connection.

In contrast the iPhone weak spot only requires a touch of the finger to block the signal. Additionally, that spot is located in a place where fingers usually rest. The manuals that point to weak spots, show them in less accessible locations, such as the back of the phone, top or bottom.

So the way to show that this is not unique to the iPhone is by demonstrating that other phones have such weak spots that are easily touched when holding the phone in a normal position. Lets see if such a demonstration exists, I haven't seen one yet.

You were saying.....