[phonejunky]

As the title says the iPhone 4 isn't the only one with this death grip issue just the most popular. YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[Sooks]

Yeah i can do it on my N1 as well , its just an issue , but its just not as noticeable as it is on other devices. To me its not that big of a deal , it happend but isnt really effecting the performance of the phone

[phonejunky]

My point exactly you can replicate this on plenty of phones. But for some reason with Apple it's this huge catastrophe.

[chirmer#CB]

I agree! My Tour loses 3 bars when I do it! Yet the media (and ignorant users on this site) refuse to acknowledge that Apple's NOT the only one with this issue... it's part of the design.

[pilsbury]

My point exactly you can replicate this on plenty of phones. But for some reason with Apple it's this huge catastrophe.

I guess when you're number 1, everybody's gunning for you. I cant MAKE mine do it.

[shawnomega]

My point exactly you can replicate this on plenty of phones. But for some reason with Apple it's this huge catastrophe.

The buzz and the media hype around it being " the best phone " in the world. When you sell 3 million in three weeks the haters come out of the wood works. Not to mention throw in the people who're die hard loyalist to there brand. ( Android, BlackBerry Users ). Not that there is anything wrong with loving your phone. But some people just don't like Apple. I say use what you want to use. Most often what ever your using is your favorite. You hold the power, and the choice. Even if the iPhone wasn't as hyped as it was I find it to be he best phone I've ever had. Would I change things about it? Sure. Would I ever buy a Mac? Not if you paid me too. Personally the iPhone/iPod is the only product I will buy from apple. Tells you how much I think of the phone it self.

[sookster54]

This can be reproduced by doing the "death grip" which isn't how most people hold their phones (it's usually tip of thumb and 3 fingers), my Flip doesn't budge and I did it on my sister's 9700 Bold and holding it the normal way (tip of thumbs on keypad and 2 of each fingers on battery cover for texting, or tip of thumb and 3 fingers on each end when talking) doesn't affect signal. When you hold it the same way on the iPhone one of your fingers has a good chance of covering the black area which can drop signal.

It's being said over and over, it's being overblown.

[Moonbase0ne]

I ordered my iP4 awhile back(still waiting "patiently"...) and I know a few people who donot have the reception issue. I got tired of my Bold 9000 and got tired of waiting for OS6 and the 9800. Was gonna go Android but figured I would try the iP4 and see how it goes.

The way I see it, if I do have any issues with the phone that I don't like, I will simply return it and keep my upgrade for something else. I can understand that people are pissed, and this seems like something that should have been spotted along time ago in testing.

My thing is, I will be using a Otter Box Defender case anyway, and a thinner case for the weekends, so if the issue is bare skin on the little slit, I am not really too concerned about it. Like I said, I have talked to people who don't have this issue, and If I do have it, I will simply return the phone.

[shawnomega]

I agree! My Tour loses 3 bars when I do it! Yet the media (and ignorant users on this site) refuse to acknowledge that Apple's NOT the only one with this issue... it's part of the design.

Its nice when people like you can chat about it objectively I never understood why some people defend their phone like it's their child, or like THEY created it. Do I think the iPhone is the best phone? Yes. Do I think it was issues? Of course. Am I so blind that I cant see that other phones like Droid, and BlackBerry make great phones as well? No. So it's cool when people can be objective about things.

[mas3222]

That's exactly what it comes down to is the loyalists don't want to let people be happy with their phones unless they approve of it. Goes for Apple, RIM and android. While I personally cannot duplicate a reduction in reception with my BB there are also plenty of iPhone users who can't either. But also if you go through the forums the haters for both brands are there. You always see Apple fans talking about the demise of RIM which made it just that much more of a big deal to go after the Apple fans after all the issues were announced. But RIM fans will go about hating on apple even before all this stuff so no parties are innocent. I personally think pick a phone that you like and leave everyone else alone if they choose something different.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[creepers]

Yea, a lot of phones do it, just not as bad as others do. My storm and curve do it, just at one bar and I have to really cover the things, not just a death grip. The ip4 can't really say for sure cause I never had it in my hands and never will. Its not my cup of tea lol. I'm also a windows fan. Apple doesn't suit my needs. I'm not saying I'm a bb fan, cause I also hate my storm lol

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[sivan]

Apple pulled a fast one here. It acknowledged the weak spot, but then demoed death grip on all phones. Those are separate things, no other phone was shown to have a weak spot right where you place your fingers in a casual holding position. And they cannot have a weak spot because the internal antenna never touches the skin.

The weak spot as a result of the bare antenna is the heart of the matter and is unique to the iPhone 4.

[scorpiodsu]

People will always criticize the "top dog" the most. Apple has to take it both ways. They get all the praise when they do something right so they should feel the backlash when they do something wrong. Just apart of the trade. For all the hype and free press Apple gets for their devices, they'll get the same level of press when something goes wrong. Gotta take the good with the bad. No one cares about the other phones because they aren't as mainstream as the iPhone.

[bloodofjupiter]

Apple pulled a fast one here. It acknowledged the weak spot, but then demoed death grip on all phones. Those are separate things, no other phone was shown to have a weak spot right where you place your fingers in a casual holding position. And they cannot have a weak spot because the internal antenna never touches the skin.

The weak spot as a result of the bare antenna is the heart of the matter and is unique to the iPhone 4.

FAIL, you're wrong.......

Don't Hold It Wrong

[sookster54]

What's he wrong about?

[LazyStarGazer]

What's he wrong about?

Synth mentions 'a casual holding position' as opposed to an unnatural position that may be required to make this death grip crap happen on a bb.

Now, I did not see Sals vid before it was pulled down, but he was likely holding the 9800 in 'a casual holding position'. If this caused a drop in signal, then fail for RIM.

[sivan]

The iPhone 4 is unique in using a bear antenna. It's enough to touch the black mark with one finger to eliminate the signal entirely.

Yes, other phone manuals warn against placing fingers on weak spots. But these weak spots, when covered, cause the antenna to use more power and the sound quality to degrade but not drop the connection. Further, those weak spots are placed in areas unlikely to be covered by the hand, like at the bottom, top of on the back cover. The iPhone 4 weak spot is right where fingers press against the frame.

Apple has only demonstrated "death grip" on other phones, it did not show that other phones also have a weak spot that drops the connection in a causal holding position just by touching the frame. That's the difference.

As for Electronista, I don't trust them. They are the ones who also twisted Mike Lazaridis' words and later had to backtrack and edit their post. I don't believe a word from them unless I see the original source they are paraphrasing or the alleged video.

In the end I'm asking a simple question: why did Apple design the iPhone such that a weak spot that stops data transmission is so inconveniently placed, and why should consumers just deal with it?

[evilhunter101]

The iPhone 4 is unique in using a bear antenna. It's enough to touch the black mark with one finger to eliminate the signal entirely.

Yes, other phone manuals warn against placing fingers on weak spots. But these weak spots, when covered, cause the antenna to use more power and the sound quality to degrade but not drop the connection. Further, those weak spots are placed in areas unlikely to be covered by the hand, like at the bottom, top of on the back cover. The iPhone 4 weak spot is right where fingers press against the frame.

Apple has only demonstrated "death grip" on other phones, it did not show that other phones also have a weak spot that drops the connection in a causal holding position just by touching the frame. That's the difference.

As for Electronista, I don't trust them. They are the ones who also twisted Mike Lazaridis' words and later had to backtrack and edit their post. I don't believe a word from them unless I see the original source they are paraphrasing or the alleged video.

In the end I'm asking a simple question: why did Apple design the iPhone such that a weak spot that stops data transmission is so inconveniently placed, and why should consumers just deal with it?

+1/2 The problem with the iPhone 4, while being blown out of proportion, is not the same as with other phones. To achieve a death grip style signal drop in phones other than the iP4 you actually have to fully grip the phone(s). With the iP4, you merely have to use a few fingers in the right location.

Even so, it's still being blown out of proportion. Just use a freakin case and get over it people. (to the only ones with the problems of course)

And to answer your question synthmole, they just did, companies make mistakes all the time. Also, if it isn't a safety issue they are not required to do anything about it unless a court of law tells them to. Just like the Storm 1's crappy screen mechanism, we had to fix it ourselves. (remember the torx screw fix?)

[sivan]

+1/2 The problem with the iPhone 4, while being blown out of proportion, is not the same as with other phones. To achieve a death grip style signal drop in phones other than the iP4 you actually have to fully grip the phone(s). With the iP4, you merely have to use a few fingers in the right location.

Not a few, just one finger, and at a location people are likely to place a finger when holding the phone in a normal position. It's just too easy to block the transmission on the iPhone 4.

Even so, it's still being blown out of proportion. Just use a freakin case and get over it people. (to the only ones with the problems of course)

I agree that it's still unclear how much of a problem this is for people in daily usage. I'm reading contradicting accounts of the problem and this will probably be clarified in time.

A case is a practical solution and many users don't mind cases. But this still raises the question of why is the iPhone designed in a way that requires a case, or at least makes consumers realize that they better get a case *after* they buy it?

What's interesting to me here is the nature of this design. What it lets Apple do is present a device in an idealized form as opposed to a usable one, giving it an unfair advantage over the competition. What consumers register is that idealized form, they don't envision it in a case when seeing ads or reading reviews with photos comparing thickness and "sexy" metal and glass construction. Apple's design seems disingenuous to me.

[Entertainment72]

It's very plain and simple, you can attenuate most phones in the market. The difference between Apple and other phone manufacturers is that unlike Apple they don't sell 3 MILLION of a particular phone model in 3 WEEKS, so no one cares about them.

For the record: I have purposely held my phone while talking with someone where the two antennas meet (black strip if you would) with no issues whatsoever.

[Chriz]

Uhh ahh..ohh...mine is Bigger then yours.

The Problem is not dropping Bars. Problem is dropping Calls!
If you drop Bars and maybe a Call with your Hand...Its not possible to make a call, because you cover the hole Phone with your Hands.
On the iPhone 4 its easier. But with the Bumper you fix the Problem. This is the only Problem. Better reception with the Bumper and less Call drops.

[Roo Zilla]

A case is a practical solution and many users don't mind cases. But this still raises the question of why is the iPhone designed in a way that requires a case, or at least makes consumers realize that they better get a case *after* they buy it?

What's interesting to me here is the nature of this design. What it lets Apple do is present a device in an idealized form as opposed to a usable one, giving it an unfair advantage over the competition. What consumers register is that idealized form, they don't envision it in a case when seeing ads or reading reviews with photos comparing thickness and "sexy" metal and glass construction. Apple's design seems disingenuous to me.

It comes down to numbers. 80% of iPhone 3GS buyers also bought a case at the same time they bought the phone. That probably means greater than 80% use cases with their previous iPhones as a lot of people buy them afterwards. I would expect similar for the i4, once there is sufficient supply of cases/bumpers. Also, lately, I've seen something like a band-aid for sale which should work just as well. As for detracting from the aesthetics of the device, I see women carry iPhones in hot pink, lime green, and baby blue cases that almost make me want to barf. They think it's cute as he11 though. I also see guys carry em in something that resembles body armor that makes the phones twice as thick. These guys swear by their cases too. For these people, touching the spot really has no significance.

Out of the remainder, a large number won't have issues anyway because they are in a strong signal area. This is especially true for the expected greater than 50% of buyers outside the USA. In general, the USA has pretty poor wireless signal compared to comparable places in Europe or Asia.

Out of the remainder of those, there will also be a significant number who naturally won't touch the spot when calling. I hold my phone with my left hand, but no part of my hand rests near the bottom left. I think most right handed people won't have a problem either.

Out of the remainder who don't fall into any of the previous categories, they'll just deal with it. They'll either change their grip to avoid the spot, or they'll flip it around if they're using it in landscape.

Basically, the vast majority of iPhone 4 buyers won't even be aware of the issue (unless they watch Letterman), let alone be a problem for them.

The people that are left? They'll return the phone, which is probably about 1.7%.

[LazyStarGazer]

The iPhone 4 is unique in using a bear antenna. It's enough to touch the black mark with one finger to eliminate the signal entirely.

Yes, other phone manuals warn against placing fingers on weak spots. But these weak spots, when covered, cause the antenna to use more power and the sound quality to degrade but not drop the connection. Further, those weak spots are placed in areas unlikely to be covered by the hand, like at the bottom, top of on the back cover. The iPhone 4 weak spot is right where fingers press against the frame.

Apple has only demonstrated "death grip" on other phones, it did not show that other phones also have a weak spot that drops the connection in a causal holding position just by touching the frame. That's the difference.

As for Electronista, I don't trust them. They are the ones who also twisted Mike Lazaridis' words and later had to backtrack and edit their post. I don't believe a word from them unless I see the original source they are paraphrasing or the alleged video.

In the end I'm asking a simple question: why did Apple design the iPhone such that a weak spot that stops data transmission is so inconveniently placed, and why should consumers just deal with it?

Actually, that would be 2 questions.

[Roo Zilla]

Not a few, just one finger, and at a location people are likely to place a finger when holding the phone in a normal position. It's just too easy to block the transmission on the iPhone 4.

iPhone 4 isn't the first iPhone with radio problems. If I touch a spot near the top right of my 3GS or my former 3G with my finger, it kills my WiFi reception if I'm in a weak WiFi area, if the indicator shows 1 quarter circle. Data stops transacting. The funny thing is, my natural hand position when holding it in landscape mode, which is how I usually use the browser, rests on the sensitive spot. It's annoying, but I deal with it by taking my finger off the spot.

[phonejunky]

Thanks everyone for being respectfulnfor the most part and keeping the thread open.

So yea my point is that although I believe Apples deaths grip issue is a little more extreme then others the fact remains it isn't alone in this problem. And this problem has just been totally blown way out of proportion as mentioned by others already.