03-26-10 06:58 PM
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  1. Cleveland's Avatar
    After years with RIM and at least a half dozen BB's (from coming from the original 2G iPhone) and joining forums such as crackberry and once going back to the iPhone, and also joining forums as iphonefans.com and modmyi.com ... '

    Has anyone really noticed the difference in the troubleshooting section of the forums ?? I'll be honest no device is perfect without a problem or two in every stockpile, but especially on here vs. modmyi.com or even on apple.com their iphone forum....

    The list of issues with one model of BB are seriously alarming... holy crap...there are hardly any forums with a troubleshooting section for the iPhone... here comes the topic for debate, is the iPhone really that far superior of a device when it comes to problems and troubleshooting OR is it just a lack of forums with a troubleshooting section....

    After pondering this questions and going and looking in the different forums... the answer is obvious and I'm still not getting over it ...

    Ok I'm done ranting for the day lol
    03-24-10 12:16 PM
  2. evilhunter101's Avatar
    From a blackberry user that doesn't have to do battery pulls and didn't even notice the outages until I came to Crackberry.com to check up on things... I think the reason there are so many less issues with the iPhone is because there is only one device out for any given year, and two if you count storage capacity.

    With only one device and a locked down OS with little backgrounding I would think you would have no problems aside from maybe a manufacturer defect here and there, which in my opinion seems to be the case for iPhones. RIM on the other hand has what 12+ devices currently in production? That is the sole reason there are so many problems with BB's.

    Every OS has to be custom tailored for every device and tailored for sub-devices (EDIT:think 9520 and 9550, 8900 and 8910 and so on and so forth) because of different chip-sets...and it really shouldn't be that way but that seems to be the price you pay for one company to put out so many different devices, no matter how alike they might be.

    EDIT: Something that may work to help them have better devices is to go the Android route and just create and maintain a solid OS and allow other handset manufacturers to license it and put it on their phones. Though I am not sure how this would implement and maintain security. For PIN's however, each manufacturer could be allotted a certain range of numbers i.e 10000000-1ZZZZZZZ would be given to Motorola etc.

    That would give them more than enough combinations I'm sure and when they run out they could apply for more. This format would include all single digit numbers and all letters of the alphabet for any one digit except for the first. An example PIN would be 136GE1B4.
    Last edited by evilhunter101; 03-24-10 at 01:04 PM. Reason: Edited for Clarity and Extra Input
    03-24-10 12:48 PM
  3. Cleveland's Avatar
    And unless it's a difference between CDMA and GSM there is no reason for this... but you even look the pearl and curve line.. they had different models for vzw alltel and sprint and they are ALL CDMA.... doesn't make much sense... since sprint roams on vzw and alltel did as well...
    03-24-10 01:49 PM
  4. Cleveland's Avatar
    I can honestly say I do not miss the battery pulls and the outages.... Alot of people try to compare the BB and iPhone. I loved my BB and I think it is a good device but now that i have tried the iPhone, I am in love :-) I have not had one single issue with my iPhone and I love that!!! I agree that all phones will have some type of issue, but I am happy that I have had 0 :-)


    Exactly, I couldn't have said it better myself... I think I've had to reboot mine maybe 6 times since I crossed in Dec... can't believe the difference from the 9550
    03-24-10 01:50 PM
  5. crackvegas78's Avatar
    With only one device and a locked down OS with little backgrounding I would think you would have no problems aside from maybe a manufacturer defect here and there, which in my opinion seems to be the case for iPhones. RIM on the other hand has what 12+ devices currently in production? That is the sole reason there are so many problems with BB's.

    Every OS has to be custom tailored for every device and tailored for sub-devices (EDIT:think 9520 and 9550, 8900 and 8910 and so on and so forth) because of different chip-sets...and it really shouldn't be that way but that seems to be the price you pay for one company to put out so many different devices, no matter how alike they might be.

    EDIT: Something that may work to help them have better devices is to go the Android route and just create and maintain a solid OS and allow other handset manufacturers to license it and put it on their phones. Though I am not sure how this would implement and maintain security. For PIN's however, each manufacturer could be allotted a certain range of numbers i.e 10000000-1ZZZZZZZ would be given to Motorola etc.
    You hit the nail on the head here. I think this is a great point that you have made. Why is it that RIM cannot just make one OS for every single berry not counting the Storm and then on single OS for the storm. One thing that used to really frustrate me was having to wonder if I really had the newest OS or if my carrier was going to get it. I do not have to worry about anything like that with the iPhone I know that the phone will just work all the time,
    03-24-10 01:57 PM
  6. mikeo007's Avatar
    You hit the nail on the head here. I think this is a great point that you have made. Why is it that RIM cannot just make one OS for every single berry not counting the Storm and then on single OS for the storm. One thing that used to really frustrate me was having to wonder if I really had the newest OS or if my carrier was going to get it. I do not have to worry about anything like that with the iPhone I know that the phone will just work all the time,
    It's hardware segmentation. They don't release all devices at the same time with equal specs. That's why you can get a $50 Blackberry, all the way up to a $600 Blackberry.

    It would be lovely to see a single, universal OS; but due to segmentation, it's not going to happen any time soon.

    Also, take a look at the problems people have. About 50% of them are minor quibbles about a loose piece of trim or a wobbly trackpad/keyboard key. Apple's device is very sturdy and well built, but it also has the additional benefit of having almost no mechanical parts, compared to a blackberry that has dozens of them.
    03-24-10 05:53 PM
  7. crackvegas78's Avatar
    It's hardware segmentation. They don't release all devices at the same time with equal specs. That's why you can get a $50 Blackberry, all the way up to a $600 Blackberry.

    It would be lovely to see a single, universal OS; but due to segmentation, it's not going to happen any time soon.

    Also, take a look at the problems people have. About 50% of them are minor quibbles about a loose piece of trim or a wobbly trackpad/keyboard key. Apple's device is very sturdy and well built, but it also has the additional benefit of having almost no mechanical parts, compared to a blackberry that has dozens of them.
    That's kinda my point. I think that one of the big issues with RIM today is that there are far too many devices on the market. Really do we need 12 different models of Blackberry's. I get that they are making different price points but I still do not see a very good reason to have that many devices and OS's on the market. If RIM really wants to take back it's crown as the number one smartphone maker then I think this is something that they should change. Just my .002 but until RIM does some house cleaning I will never consider another RIM deivce.
    03-24-10 06:07 PM
  8. evilhunter101's Avatar
    And unless it's a difference between CDMA and GSM there is no reason for this... but you even look the pearl and curve line.. they had different models for vzw alltel and sprint and they are ALL CDMA.... doesn't make much sense... since sprint roams on vzw and alltel did as well...
    Exactly my point, man I like how you think lol. Could you imagine how much the quality would improve even if BB's were just limited to say a Bold series and a Storm series? I think it would be amazing.

    You hit the nail on the head here. I think this is a great point that you have made. Why is it that RIM cannot just make one OS for every single berry not counting the Storm and then on single OS for the storm. One thing that used to really frustrate me was having to wonder if I really had the newest OS or if my carrier was going to get it. I do not have to worry about anything like that with the iPhone I know that the phone will just work all the time,
    I must say my S2 just works all the time so they must be doing something right i.e, heading in the right direction. I think they too are trying to find a way to make OS building easier as I'm sure it costs them quite a bit to work on every one of them individually.

    It's hardware segmentation. They don't release all devices at the same time with equal specs. That's why you can get a $50 Blackberry, all the way up to a $600 Blackberry.

    It would be lovely to see a single, universal OS; but due to segmentation, it's not going to happen any time soon.

    Also, take a look at the problems people have. About 50% of them are minor quibbles about a loose piece of trim or a wobbly trackpad/keyboard key. Apple's device is very sturdy and well built, but it also has the additional benefit of having almost no mechanical parts, compared to a blackberry that has dozens of them.
    I actually think a universal BBOS is possible. One for GSM and one for CDMA's, one for touchscreen GSM and one for touchscreen CDMA... ok so maybe thats not universal. But, a way they could do it is one, give us more app memory, two build one OS then build in what every device needs to use said OS. Then upon install, the OS could read the PIN, check the servers/device BIOS to verify device model, then just disable the features the phone won't need. I really can't see why this isn't possible.

    Since the touchscreen-trackpad-keyboard slider exists, they should already have the foundation required to do this. And since the CDMA phones are becoming GSM compatible, then they can write that into the code to and on GSM only devices just disable the CDMA. Another plus from this? Wait for it, wait for it.... No more hybrids!

    That's kinda my point. I think that one of the big issues with RIM today is that there are far too many devices on the market. Really do we need 12 different models of Blackberry's. I get that they are making different price points but I still do not see a very good reason to have that many devices and OS's on the market. If RIM really wants to take back it's crown as the number one smartphone maker then I think this is something that they should change. Just my .002 but until RIM does some house cleaning I will never consider another RIM deivce.
    I agree with you on this, i.e why is there a Bold series and still Curve series' still in production? Do we really need that many traditional style devices? I find it ridiculous. Cut it down to four product lines. Bold, Storm, BBSlider, and Pearl, then use my above OS arrangement and bam, build quality goes on the rise and OS issues go down... *sigh* if only it were that easy...

    Man, I should really suggest some of this to RIM lol...
    03-24-10 07:24 PM
  9. mitchell209's Avatar
    I doubt RIM will ever get just one universal OS. They already have too many different phones. Google's going to end up like RIM eventually, IMO. Android is too fragmented now. It would have been better if they kept things locked down like Apple and Palm.
    03-24-10 08:52 PM
  10. evilhunter101's Avatar
    I doubt RIM will ever get just one universal OS. They already have too many different phones. Google's going to end up like RIM eventually, IMO. Android is too fragmented now. It would have been better if they kept things locked down like Apple and Palm.
    I doubt it too, but it is definitely possible, and I don't think Android is too fragmented. Android is gaining momentum as it is so I'm sure when its more powerful devices come out it'll be a tough contender for the iPhone, that is unless Jobs announces something huge this summer.
    03-24-10 09:42 PM
  11. Cleveland's Avatar
    From a blackberry user that doesn't have to do battery pulls and didn't even notice the outages until I came to Crackberry.com to check up on things... I think the reason there are so many less issues with the iPhone is because there is only one device out for any given year, and two if you count storage capacity.

    With only one device and a locked down OS with little backgrounding I would think you would have no problems aside from maybe a manufacturer defect here and there, which in my opinion seems to be the case for iPhones. RIM on the other hand has what 12+ devices currently in production? That is the sole reason there are so many problems with BB's.

    Every OS has to be custom tailored for every device and tailored for sub-devices (EDIT:think 9520 and 9550, 8900 and 8910 and so on and so forth) because of different chip-sets...and it really shouldn't be that way but that seems to be the price you pay for one company to put out so many different devices, no matter how alike they might be.

    EDIT: Something that may work to help them have better devices is to go the Android route and just create and maintain a solid OS and allow other handset manufacturers to license it and put it on their phones. Though I am not sure how this would implement and maintain security. For PIN's however, each manufacturer could be allotted a certain range of numbers i.e 10000000-1ZZZZZZZ would be given to Motorola etc.

    That would give them more than enough combinations I'm sure and when they run out they could apply for more. This format would include all single digit numbers and all letters of the alphabet for any one digit except for the first. An example PIN would be 136GE1B4.

    I think that is RIM's biggest fault... get rid of apps in flash memory that don't need to be run thru BIS.... which is the other thing that hinders apps on BB is they are run thru BIS
    Last edited by cleverocks22; 03-24-10 at 11:49 PM.
    03-24-10 11:47 PM
  12. mitchell209's Avatar
    I doubt it too, but it is definitely possible, and I don't think Android is too fragmented. Android is gaining momentum as it is so I'm sure when its more powerful devices come out it'll be a tough contender for the iPhone, that is unless Jobs announces something huge this summer.
    Yeah, it is gaining momentum, but because it's on so many different phones with so many different versions on each phone, it's harder for developers to make apps that work on all phones. Some don't have compatible hardware and others may not have the correct version.
    03-25-10 12:47 AM
  13. stuaw11's Avatar
    Same thing as RIM.

    Some newer, some older hardware. Some on 4.5 some on 5.0, and multiple versions of each.

    Android is becoming just as fragmented and RIM or Win Mo was with all the different hardware plus 1.5,1.6,2.0,2.1, etc. Its just a lot to support at one time. Probably wasnt the best road for Google to o with it, sometimes 1 or 2 routes like Apple is the way to go instead of a dozen.




    But no, I dont think RIM's quality is horrible. I think its pretty average for a phone, just Apple's is above average. There's nothing wrong with being average though and every mass produced product will have some minor issues. Even Apple had an issue with cracking plastic on the 3G/3GS on some units. You cant get a perfect unit every time in mass production- just look at cars, the fit and finish arent near always perfect Plus as others have said the iphone has a LOT less moving parts to worry about.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 03-25-10 at 03:48 AM.
    03-25-10 03:40 AM
  14. Entertainment72's Avatar
    I definitely see Google turning into RIM with multiple devices, multiple OS's all at the same time. One thing that will hurt Google in the long run is having to rely on others for hardware, that can be a shaky situation.
    Google is already a borderline Microsoft as it is, ALL SOFTWARE and no hardware. Google will give Apple a good thump but Apple will come out on top in the long run due to a better business model.

    Google understands geeks and nerds...
    Apple understands the plain and simple.. the plain and simple outweigh the geeks 1000 to 1.. you do the math.

    Thats how you have to take a screenshot Google.. really?

    no seriously I mean really?
    Microsoft and Google are about the latest and greatest.. HD, processors, ram.. speed..
    Apple is only about user experience... When you go into a store and the Verizon rep (average person) can't show you how to use a Droid.. really Google?

    When my 5 year old niece can use an iPhone without me even saying anything.. really Apple?

    Apple --> yes really Entertainment72.
    Last edited by Entertainment72; 03-25-10 at 07:34 AM.
    03-25-10 07:28 AM
  15. evilhunter101's Avatar
    I think that is RIM's biggest fault... get rid of apps in flash memory that don't need to be run thru BIS.... which is the other thing that hinders apps on BB is they are run thru BIS
    I agree with you, that is a huge fault on RIM's part about app memory, and I believe they are trying to figure out some way to change that, but I also believe that way won't be made public for quite some time, definitely not next month but I hope I am wrong.

    As for the BIS thing, I don't see that as a problem, it isn't BIS that slows down the apps, its the way apps talk to BIS. Take a look at the current browser, the slowest part of it is when it is "requesting," that, and the fact that they completely re-did the way the new browser talks to BIS shows that BIS isn't the problem. Apps such as Facebook, use the same underlying protocols and proxies as the current browser, if they too, switch to the new proxies and protocols when the next browser is released, we should see a dramatic increase in speed. Once again though, I don't expect these improvements for quite a while.

    Yeah, it is gaining momentum, but because it's on so many different phones with so many different versions on each phone, it's harder for developers to make apps that work on all phones. Some don't have compatible hardware and others may not have the correct version.
    I don't think it is nearly as hard for developers to make apps for all phones as most people think. Why? because all android phones have two essential things, a touchscreen and on-screen keyboard. As long as those two things are on each and every phone, one app can be used across all phones. Sure, it may run slower on some than others, but that's the price you pay for having an inferior phone.

    Same thing as RIM.

    Some newer, some older hardware. Some on 4.5 some on 5.0, and multiple versions of each.

    Android is becoming just as fragmented and RIM or Win Mo was with all the different hardware plus 1.5,1.6,2.0,2.1, etc. Its just a lot to support at one time. Probably wasnt the best road for Google to o with it, sometimes 1 or 2 routes like Apple is the way to go instead of a dozen.
    I think this fragmentation won't be nearly as problematic as RIM's or Win Mo's but I do see your point. And the only thing I have to add is that from 1.5 to 1.6 to 2.0 to 2.1, the underlying way that things work and api's work doesnt change all that much. With that in mind, I don't think it will ever become as hard to keep up for Android as it is with RIM.

    But no, I dont think RIM's quality is horrible. I think its pretty average for a phone, just Apple's is above average. There's nothing wrong with being average though and every mass produced product will have some minor issues. Even Apple had an issue with cracking plastic on the 3G/3GS on some units. You cant get a perfect unit every time in mass production- just look at cars, the fit and finish arent near always perfect Plus as others have said the iphone has a LOT less moving parts to worry about.
    I beg to differ here, I think Rim's quality is slightly below average as a whole, but at different levels per device. And Apple's build quality is now the new average. Most Android phones meet that average now. Phones like RIM's will always be just below average to way under average because of all the moving parts as you mentioned. Occasionally, devices will come out that are just disasters, e.g. original palm pre. Industry-wide however, most devices are living up to Apple's new standard of build quality, and that, is a great thing to be able to say.

    I definitely see Google turning into RIM with multiple devices, multiple OS's all at the same time. One thing that will hurt Google in the long run is having to rely on others for hardware, that can be a shaky situation.
    Google is already a borderline Microsoft as it is, ALL SOFTWARE and no hardware. Google will give Apple a good thump but Apple will come out on top in the long run due to a better business model.

    Google understands geeks and nerds...
    Apple understands the plain and simple.. the plain and simple outweigh the geeks 1000 to 1.. you do the math.

    Thats how you have to take a screenshot Google.. really?

    no seriously I mean really?
    Microsoft and Google are about the latest and greatest.. HD, processors, ram.. speed..
    Apple is only about user experience... When you go into a store and the Verizon rep (average person) can't show you how to use a Droid.. really Google?

    When my 5 year old niece can use an iPhone without me even saying anything.. really Apple?

    Apple --> yes really Entertainment72.
    On your statement, everything above applies, well, most everything. The only thing I will add is directed at the part in bold. I have a 6 year old little sister, and let me tell you, she is not the brightest bulb in the world, but she shocked the crap out of me a month ago when I got my (then new) S2. I left it out on the table, she picked it up and started playing with it. I figured she could do no damage, right? It's a BlackBerry, she could never figure it out.

    Boy, was I wrong. A few minutes later, It rang, I took the phone from her (she was playing a game I have called RHex) turns out she sent a text to her mom, asking when her mom was gonna get home. Here's the kicker, her mom isn't in my address book. Now, from all the stories people put out there you would think a child that doesn't own a phone, and doesn't have access to BlackBerry phones would not be able to figure out a BB in under 5 minutes.

    Moral of the story, people whine too much about usability, intuitiveness, and simplicity of every OS, they are all simple, intuitive, usable when you put them in the hands of a child that doesn't have any preset notions of intuitiveness and/or how an operating system should work.
    03-25-10 11:52 AM
  16. dcgore's Avatar
    ^^^Great story!
    03-25-10 02:08 PM
  17. Cleveland's Avatar
    I agree with you, that is a huge fault on RIM's part about app memory, and I believe they are trying to figure out some way to change that, but I also believe that way won't be made public for quite some time, definitely not next month but I hope I am wrong.

    As for the BIS thing, I don't see that as a problem, it isn't BIS that slows down the apps, its the way apps talk to BIS. Take a look at the current browser, the slowest part of it is when it is "requesting," that, and the fact that they completely re-did the way the new browser talks to BIS shows that BIS isn't the problem. Apps such as Facebook, use the same underlying protocols and proxies as the current browser, if they too, switch to the new proxies and protocols when the next browser is released, we should see a dramatic increase in speed. Once again though, I don't expect these improvements for quite a while.


    I don't think it is nearly as hard for developers to make apps for all phones as most people think. Why? because all android phones have two essential things, a touchscreen and on-screen keyboard. As long as those two things are on each and every phone, one app can be used across all phones. Sure, it may run slower on some than others, but that's the price you pay for having an inferior phone.


    I think this fragmentation won't be nearly as problematic as RIM's or Win Mo's but I do see your point. And the only thing I have to add is that from 1.5 to 1.6 to 2.0 to 2.1, the underlying way that things work and api's work doesnt change all that much. With that in mind, I don't think it will ever become as hard to keep up for Android as it is with RIM.


    I beg to differ here, I think Rim's quality is slightly below average as a whole, but at different levels per device. And Apple's build quality is now the new average. Most Android phones meet that average now. Phones like RIM's will always be just below average to way under average because of all the moving parts as you mentioned. Occasionally, devices will come out that are just disasters, e.g. original palm pre. Industry-wide however, most devices are living up to Apple's new standard of build quality, and that, is a great thing to be able to say.


    On your statement, everything above applies, well, most everything. The only thing I will add is directed at the part in bold. I have a 6 year old little sister, and let me tell you, she is not the brightest bulb in the world, but she shocked the crap out of me a month ago when I got my (then new) S2. I left it out on the table, she picked it up and started playing with it. I figured she could do no damage, right? It's a BlackBerry, she could never figure it out.

    Boy, was I wrong. A few minutes later, It rang, I took the phone from her (she was playing a game I have called RHex) turns out she sent a text to her mom, asking when her mom was gonna get home. Here's the kicker, her mom isn't in my address book. Now, from all the stories people put out there you would think a child that doesn't own a phone, and doesn't have access to BlackBerry phones would not be able to figure out a BB in under 5 minutes.

    Moral of the story, people whine too much about usability, intuitiveness, and simplicity of every OS, they are all simple, intuitive, usable when you put them in the hands of a child that doesn't have any preset notions of intuitiveness and/or how an operating system should work.
    Speed isn't the only issue here, especially like apps like facebook, the facebook iphone app inlcudes fb chat, searching for friends and just about everything that the facebook page does except for all the facebook apps/games....

    They still have a long ways to go just on this one particular app.. not to mention the lack of quality twitter apps... ubertwitter was alright.. but twittelator is unbelievable just to state another one lol
    03-25-10 03:07 PM
  18. evilhunter101's Avatar
    Speed isn't the only issue here, especially like apps like facebook, the facebook iphone app inlcudes fb chat, searching for friends and just about everything that the facebook page does except for all the facebook apps/games....

    They still have a long ways to go just on this one particular app.. not to mention the lack of quality twitter apps... ubertwitter was alright.. but twittelator is unbelievable just to state another one lol
    Ok I see what you mean, The BB facebook can include all that stuff also, they just have to put it in there. Unfortunately, they wont do that unless we bug them enough to do it. All that has nothing to do with the BIS though. Since you mentioned BIS, I figured that was a reference to how slow the apps are, my bad. About the twitter apps though, I find twitter useless, so I have no idea what content is in BB twitter apps or iPhone twitter apps, sorry.

    Edit: One more thing, to get all those iPhone-like Facebook features into BB Facebook we would need tons more app memory, so this plays in perfectly to your first point about app memory.
    Last edited by evilhunter101; 03-25-10 at 04:24 PM.
    03-25-10 03:29 PM
  19. crackvegas78's Avatar
    Ok I see what you mean, The BB facebook can include all that stuff also, they just have to put it in there. Unfortunately, they wont do that unless we bug them enough to do it. All that has nothing to do with the BIS though. Since you mentioned BIS, I figured that was a reference to how slow the apps are, my bad. About the twitter apps though, I find twitter useless, so I have no idea what content is in BB twitter apps or iPhone twitter apps, sorry.

    Edit: One more thing, to get all those iPhone-like Facebook features into BB Facebook we would need tons more app memory, so this plays in perfectly to your first point about app memory.
    So if RIM can do a FB app that is as good as the iPhone then why don't they. Either they can't do it at this time or they do not care enough about their own customer base to give them a full featured FB app. Again I am not a Berry hater, I used to use them, but when it comes to apps there is just no way to compare a Berry and an iPhone and have the Berry come out looking better.
    03-25-10 05:16 PM
  20. mikeo007's Avatar
    So if RIM can do a FB app that is as good as the iPhone then why don't they. Either they can't do it at this time or they do not care enough about their own customer base to give them a full featured FB app. Again I am not a Berry hater, I used to use them, but when it comes to apps there is just no way to compare a Berry and an iPhone and have the Berry come out looking better.
    Apple didn't make the Facebook app, Facebook did. RIM has made the BB Facebook app because FB has yet to step up to the plate. You could call it temporary if you want, but I don't know if Facebook will ever bother since they seem more interested in crappy flash games.
    03-25-10 05:37 PM
  21. stuaw11's Avatar
    Or maybe Facebook has no interest in messing with RIM developer tools to make a facebook app? Doesnt mean theyre too lazy too if its just too hard or not worth their time to do.
    03-25-10 06:31 PM
  22. mikeo007's Avatar
    Or maybe Facebook has no interest in messing with RIM developer tools to make a facebook app? Doesnt mean theyre too lazy too if its just too hard or not worth their time to do.
    That's one of the many possible reasons. The Blackberry dev tools are definitely not friendly compared to the iPhone or Palm Pre.
    03-25-10 07:35 PM
  23. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Because of the locked-down nature of the iPhone, it is going to be less prone to problems. That's great for the beginner to intermediate user. The advanced user won't be happy within those constraints and will probably jailbreak it to give themselves more options. There seem to be a lot of forums about fixing problems on jailbroken phones.

    The BBs are open from the start which gives more possibilities for problems with 3rd party apps,themes, etc. I'm the admin for over 100 BBs and I see very few problems for most of the users. The ones that seem to have the most problems are the ones loading up any app they choose. If RIM was closed off like the Apple environment, you'd see fewer issues.

    Also, a lot of the BB problems are solvable to an average user, hence the prevalence of forums. Most iPhone issues involve a trip to the Genius Bar and I've noticed a line there every time I pass by the Apple Store.

    You won't have loose battery door issues on an iPhone, but that comes at the price of being stuck with that 1 battery. There's trade-offs...
    03-25-10 08:08 PM
  24. Cleveland's Avatar
    Because of the locked-down nature of the iPhone, it is going to be less prone to problems. That's great for the beginner to intermediate user. The advanced user won't be happy within those constraints and will probably jailbreak it to give themselves more options. There seem to be a lot of forums about fixing problems on jailbroken phones.

    The BBs are open from the start which gives more possibilities for problems with 3rd party apps,themes, etc. I'm the admin for over 100 BBs and I see very few problems for most of the users. The ones that seem to have the most problems are the ones loading up any app they choose. If RIM was closed off like the Apple environment, you'd see fewer issues.

    Also, a lot of the BB problems are solvable to an average user, hence the prevalence of forums. Most iPhone issues involve a trip to the Genius Bar and I've noticed a line there every time I pass by the Apple Store.

    You won't have loose battery door issues on an iPhone, but that comes at the price of being stuck with that 1 battery. There's trade-offs...
    Then what about all the jailbroken iPhones out there ?? as the only way you'd have to take an iPhone into Apple is if it was a hardware issue, all software issues are solved with iTunes just as BB's software issues are solved by DM... as an owner of BB for two years, I fixed and solved more BB problems to keep them from going into whatever carrier they had... bricked phones, buggy phones... memory leaks you name it, I was involved in it repair software related.

    And if there is a line at a Genius Bar, what about Mac users that have a hard drive go down, or what about iPod users.... or whatever the case may be... There are more than just iPhone users in there... And I'm not talking about battery door issues... I'm talking about this not working and that not working... let's get real here LOL
    Last edited by cleverocks22; 03-25-10 at 10:47 PM.
    03-25-10 10:43 PM
  25. crackvegas78's Avatar
    Apple didn't make the Facebook app, Facebook did. RIM has made the BB Facebook app because FB has yet to step up to the plate. You could call it temporary if you want, but I don't know if Facebook will ever bother since they seem more interested in crappy flash games.
    This is what cracks me up, I never said that Apple made the app for the iPhone. That was not even the point that I was making. So once again the point is that apps are better on the iPhone and not so great on the Berry. And as another poster said maybe it has more to with FB not really caring about having to deal with the dev tools that are needed to make apps for the Berry. I say this with respect but you really need to read my posts before you quote me a respond, or we will end up in another pointless debate.
    03-25-10 11:19 PM
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