07-15-10 08:35 AM
46 12
tools
  1. phonejunky's Avatar
    Is the iPhone 4 controversy much ado about nothing or a really big problem?

    This article is kind of sum up of the the whole situation and some choices Apple has to make sooner then later.
    Last edited by CrackberryBrandon; 07-14-10 at 01:08 PM.
    07-14-10 01:06 PM
  2. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    It's a good objective article that takes no sides. I think it's pretty accurate. Most people are happy with their phone (whether or not they are experiencing the issues) while there are a large number of people that aren't because of the issues. Everyone will just have to wait and see if Apple does anything.
    07-14-10 01:31 PM
  3. phonejunky's Avatar
    Samething I thought about it not taking any sides. I only have a couple friends that didn't like it. And both took it back and received full refunds. (now they're back on the 3Gs), but most love it.
    07-14-10 01:35 PM
  4. weblou's Avatar
    Good article. And it's true some people don't care about the problem or just don't have it.... And for others it's a no go. It's all up to the individual to decide if the phone works for them or not.
    Now one thing that Apple needs to do is talk more open or find a solution to this. There PR was one of the worst ever on this problem. They only made it bigger... Is this going to stop apple loyal's from buying apple products?? I don't think so.... But I do think it will hurt them with getting new users.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-14-10 02:22 PM
  5. Tlynnsmith's Avatar
    My phone works, but it's the principle of the matter that makes me struggle, which is why I'm not sure if I'm going to keep my iPhone, as much as I love it.

    Sure, all phones have issues and I can name my issues with my very first BB, the 9000. But I don't ever remember RIM suggesting that I buy something additional to make the phone work, without having to hold it in a certain position. If someone can make me remember, give it a go. That's what makes me continue to scratch my head, trying to process that kind of logic.

    Of course I can take the phone back, and if the Samsung Captivate had a flash camera, I would probably be on my way back to the Apple Store right now. No, I don't buy a phone for the camera, but I just think AT&T's first SERIOUS Android phone should come with a flash camera.
    07-14-10 02:35 PM
  6. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    My phone works, but it's the principle of the matter that makes me struggle, which is why I'm not sure if I'm going to keep my iPhone, as much as I love it.

    Sure, all phones have issues and I can name my issues with my very first BB, the 9000. But I don't ever remember RIM suggesting that I buy something additional to make the phone work, without having to hold it in a certain position. If someone can make me remember, give it a go. That's what makes me continue to scratch my head, trying to process that kind of logic.

    Of course I can take the phone back, and if the Samsung Captivate had a flash camera, I would probably be on my way back to the Apple Store right now. No, I don't buy a phone for the camera, but I just think AT&T's first SERIOUS Android phone should come with a flash camera.

    Whatever floats your boat. RIM did absolutely nothing about the Storm they released. That thing was awful from the hardware to the software. What did RIM and VZW do? Nothing. Just kept exchanging them. Here's what I think, either you keep the device, plain and simple. To me, it's not about principle or anything like that. Either the device works for you or not. Is Apple a little arrogant about the situation? Yes but let's be honest companies release stuff with problems all the time especially tech stuff but obviously Apple is under more scrutiny.

    Google is still selling Nexus ones that if your laying down and holding the phone up and you touch the top of the screen, it will select something on the the bottom. Does anyone care? No. Because it's the Nexus one. It's not a safety issue so all the recall talk is ridiculous. Either deal with the issues (if you have them) or bounce. I don't see how it gets any easier than that. Anyone feeling like they are entitled to more than that is irrational. Just my thoughts.
    07-14-10 02:54 PM
  7. Tlynnsmith's Avatar
    Whatever floats your boat. RIM did absolutely nothing about the Storm they released. That thing was awful from the hardware to the software. What did RIM and VZW do? Nothing. Just kept exchanging them. Here's what I think, either you keep the device, plain and simple. To me, it's not about principle or anything like that. Either the device works for you or not. Is Apple a little arrogant about the situation? Yes but let's be honest companies release stuff with problems all the time especially tech stuff but obviously Apple is under more scrutiny.

    Google is still selling Nexus ones that if your laying down and holding the phone up and you touch the top of the screen, it will select something on the the bottom. Does anyone care? No. Because it's the Nexus one. It's not a safety issue so all the recall talk is ridiculous. Either deal with the issues (if you have them) or bounce. I don't see how it gets any easier than that. Anyone feeling like they are entitled to more than that is irrational. Just my thoughts.

    ...and that's what I said. I may "bounce". For ME it is about principle, which is why I am sharing what I struggle with.

    Okay? Yes...okay.
    07-14-10 02:58 PM
  8. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    Good article. And it's true some people don't care about the problem or just don't have it.... And for others it's a no go. It's all up to the individual to decide if the phone works for them or not.
    Now one thing that Apple needs to do is talk more open or find a solution to this. There PR was one of the worst ever on this problem. They only made it bigger... Is this going to stop apple loyal's from buying apple products?? I don't think so.... But I do think it will hurt them with getting new users.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I agree. I think the issue may be they can't do anything about it with the devices already out. Unfortunately, the easiest thing for them maybe to release a software update (as a smoke screen) and then if people are still experiencing issues, replace them since they are still under warranty. Since the majority of people probably don't have/admit or don't care about the issue, a case by case basis may be the easiest route. If anyone thinks an American tech company will admit they messed up something then we are kidding ourselves. Microsoft couldn't admit vista was crap, so what did they do?... release Windows 7. LOL. Here's how Apple appeases it's loyal customers, next year those who stuck with the phone will get special pricing on a new one and then that makes people love them even more.
    07-14-10 02:58 PM
  9. Username00089's Avatar
    Good article. Short, and to the point. More about Apple's reputation than anything else.

    I've already said I'm not having these problems no matter how many times I've
    seriously have tried to replicate this reduced bars thing. However, I can understand
    people being a tad bit riled up because they are actually experiencing this problem.
    It's human nature. But as long as that 30 day window is open for a full refund
    that's where I start to lose sympathy for them. Apple doesn't, and in my opinion,
    SHOULD NOT give away a thing for free. Bumper, or whatever case. The problem
    was already out in the open two days before the phone was actually released. The
    problem was out there, even before the thing went on sale. I still bought mine with
    this thought process: If I have this problem that I'm reading about, I can take my
    phone back. Why would I keep it? And yes, I know the average consumer may not
    be very knowledgable on the amount of tech blogs that are out there. But still,
    took no more than a day for this issue to be reported on the mainstream. Think
    CNN, etc.

    It is nothing but ignorance to continue to hold on to the phone if it's giving you the
    problems that it's giving you. Sitting, complaining, waiting, and hoping that Apple
    is going to give you something for free is ignorant. Take the thing back.
    07-14-10 02:58 PM
  10. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    ...and that's what I said. I may "bounce". For ME it is about principle, which is why I am sharing what I struggle with.

    Okay? Yes...okay.
    Yes I know and I was stating that for me it's not about principles. Is it ok to respond/debate on a discussion forum? It may be a principle issue to you and I'm sure a lot of other people feel the same but in the grand scheme of thing, these companies don't care about that. If they did, then each one will be admitting something everyday. Instead, the issues are revealed on tech blog sites through other users. So if it's about principle, you may as well bounce already because these companies simply don't care. The only thing that speaks to them is money. If out og 1.7 million device only 100,000 come back. They still win. I wish it was different but if you really want to make it about principal you'd take it back solely on the fact that Apple said we are all holding the phone wrong. How's that for principle.
    07-14-10 03:02 PM
  11. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    Good article. Short, and to the point. More about Apple's reputation than anything else.

    I've already said I'm not having these problems no matter how many times I've
    seriously have tried to replicate this reduced bars thing. However, I can understand
    people being a tad bit riled up because they are actually experiencing this problem.
    It's human nature. But as long as that 30 day window is open for a full refund
    that's where I start to lose sympathy for them. Apple doesn't, and in my opinion,
    SHOULD NOT give away a thing for free. Bumper, or whatever case. The problem
    was already out in the open two days before the phone was actually released. The
    problem was out there, even before the thing went on sale. I still bought mine with
    this thought process: If I have this problem that I'm reading about, I can take my
    phone back. Why would I keep it? And yes, I know the average consumer may not
    be very knowledgable on the amount of tech blogs that are out there. But still,
    took no more than a day for this issue to be reported on the mainstream. Think
    CNN, etc.

    It is nothing but ignorance to continue to hold on to the phone if it's giving you the
    problems that it's giving you. Sitting, complaining, waiting, and hoping that Apple
    is going to give you something for free is ignorant. Take the thing back.
    Exactly. People want to make this about morals and stuff. Take it back or deal with it. Plain and simple. I mean, I would just take it back, wait a couple weeks to see if the issues have been fixed and buy it again. How hard is that? Sometimes people just exaggerate everything and make it like it's a life or death thing when you can easily move on. Shoot, if you are going to stay on AT&T, you can still sell a 16GB for like 700. Major profit if you paid 200.
    07-14-10 03:05 PM
  12. Tlynnsmith's Avatar
    Yes I know and I was stating that for me it's not about principles. Is it ok to respond/debate on a discussion forum? It may be a principle issue to you and I'm sure a lot of other people feel the same but in the grand scheme of thing, these companies don't care about that. If they did, then each one will be admitting something everyday. Instead, the issues are revealed on tech blog sites through other users. So if it's about principle, you may as well bounce already because these companies simply don't care. The only thing that speaks to them is money. If out og 1.7 million device only 100,000 come back. They still win. I wish it was different but if you really want to make it about principal you'd take it back solely on the fact that Apple said we are all holding the phone wrong. How's that for principle.
    Yeah...but I'm not debating with you. I already said, that I have the choice to take the phone back, AND said that I probably will. I also said I'm struggling, because I do love the phone. So I don't get the reply.

    I guess I'm detecting an attitude, and I'm not sure why.
    07-14-10 03:07 PM
  13. Username00089's Avatar
    Exactly. People want to make this about morals and stuff. Take it back or deal with it. Plain and simple. I mean, I would just take it back, wait a couple weeks to see if the issues have been fixed and buy it again. How hard is that? Sometimes people just exaggerate everything and make it like it's a life or death thing when you can easily move on. Shoot, if you are going to stay on AT&T, you can still sell a 16GB for like 700. Major profit if you paid 200.
    Not only that but I could have sworn they waived the re-stocking fee?
    07-14-10 03:07 PM
  14. mas3222's Avatar
    Good article. Short, and to the point. More about Apple's reputation than anything else.

    I've already said I'm not having these problems no matter how many times I've
    seriously have tried to replicate this reduced bars thing. However, I can understand
    people being a tad bit riled up because they are actually experiencing this problem.
    It's human nature. But as long as that 30 day window is open for a full refund
    that's where I start to lose sympathy for them. Apple doesn't, and in my opinion,
    SHOULD NOT give away a thing for free. Bumper, or whatever case. The problem
    was already out in the open two days before the phone was actually released. The
    problem was out there, even before the thing went on sale. I still bought mine with
    this thought process: If I have this problem that I'm reading about, I can take my
    phone back. Why would I keep it? And yes, I know the average consumer may not
    be very knowledgable on the amount of tech blogs that are out there. But still,
    took no more than a day for this issue to be reported on the mainstream. Think
    CNN, etc.

    It is nothing but ignorance to continue to hold on to the phone if it's giving you the
    problems that it's giving you. Sitting, complaining, waiting, and hoping that Apple
    is going to give you something for free is ignorant. Take the thing back.
    I disagree with Apple should not give anything away for free statement you made. Sure the problem was out in the open but as someone who frequents forums you have more of a chance to see that it has an issue unlike the average joe who will walk into the store and buy it or see the fancy commercial, or even the news broadcasts hyping it as the best phone ever. The problem didn't hit mainstream media until well after they sold a couple million or so of the devices.

    Apple then came out stating it would be fixed by a software update. That kept a lot of people holding on to what a lot would have returned. So yeah, Apple made an error and should correct it either by giving the refund, or a free case. If Apple had just come out with either a solution (free case) or even at least admitted it has a problem then at least their reputation would come through unscathed.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-14-10 03:08 PM
  15. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    Not only that but I could have sworn they waived the re-stocking fee?
    The best way to make these companies hear your voice is by not using their products. Holding on to it and complaining without planning to return it means nothing. All it shows is that no matter how bad something may be, you are still willing to keep it which shows their device/product is the best even with it's problems. Hit them where it hurts, the bottom line. If you really want to make a statement, return the phone. Shoot you can even buy 4 of them and return all 4 of them in a week just to prove a point.
    07-14-10 03:11 PM
  16. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    I disagree with Apple should not give anything away for free statement you made. Sure the problem was out in the open but as someone who frequents forums you have more of a chance to see that it has an issue unlike the average joe who will walk into the store and buy it or see the fancy commercial, or even the news broadcasts hyping it as the best phone ever. The problem didn't hit mainstream media until well after they sold a couple million or so of the devices.

    Apple then came out stating it would be fixed by a software update. That kept a lot of people holding on to what a lot would have returned. So yeah, Apple made an error and should correct it either by giving the refund, or a free case. If Apple had just come out with either a solution (free case) or even at least admitted it has a problem then at least their reputation would come through unscathed.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I don't think Apple NEEDS to give anyway anything, but I do think passing out free bumpers to those who want it will help cause less damage to their rep. Anyone else who doesn't want a bumper has freely chosen to live with the problems, get rid of the device or use some other means to cover up the issue.
    07-14-10 03:13 PM
  17. Username00089's Avatar
    I disagree with Apple should not give anything away for free statement you made. Sure the problem was out in the open but as someone who frequents forums you have more of a chance to see that it has an issue unlike the average joe who will walk into the store and buy it or see the fancy commercial, or even the news broadcasts hyping it as the best phone ever. The problem didn't hit mainstream media until well after they sold a couple million or so of the devices.

    Apple then came out stating it would be fixed by a software update. That kept a lot of people holding on to what a lot would have returned. So yeah, Apple made an error and should correct it either by giving the refund, or a free case. If Apple had just come out with either a solution (free case) or even at least admitted it has a problem then at least their reputation would come through unscathed.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    It only took 4 days to sell nearly 2 million of them. Four days is quite fast
    enough in this caffeinated society for things like this to hit the mainstream as
    it did. And you made my point on the average consumer.

    Apple's solution was hold it a different way or buy a case. A solution doesn't
    mean that they HAVE to give a case away for free. That's your solution.

    And they corrected it by waiving the re-stocking fee on a refund. They also
    did admit that they would correct the issue with a software update. That
    sounds like they're admitting something right there.

    If people are willing to hold on to the phone in the hopes of something
    changing, then that's their problem. But they don't deserve to get a thing
    for free. This is business.

    The fact that the problem is out there and people are still trying to get
    one tells you the type of people we're discussing here.
    07-14-10 03:17 PM
  18. Tlynnsmith's Avatar
    I disagree with Apple should not give anything away for free statement you made. Sure the problem was out in the open but as someone who frequents forums you have more of a chance to see that it has an issue unlike the average joe who will walk into the store and buy it or see the fancy commercial, or even the news broadcasts hyping it as the best phone ever. The problem didn't hit mainstream media until well after they sold a couple million or so of the devices.

    Apple then came out stating it would be fixed by a software update. That kept a lot of people holding on to what a lot would have returned. So yeah, Apple made an error and should correct it either by giving the refund, or a free case. If Apple had just come out with either a solution (free case) or even at least admitted it has a problem then at least their reputation would come through unscathed.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Plus...and I get it's just me who thinks this way, regardless of whether or not the issue was known beforehand (I wasn't aware, and it's not really realistic to think that the average consumer would have been aware), and the fact that I still have the phone (which may not be the case for long), you don't release a phone with antenna issues (as a direct result of your design decisions), and tell your customers to buy a case to mask the problem.

    If it was known beforehand that the antenna could cause problems for some consumers, if not all, and you went full speed ahead and didn't correct it before release, OR at the very least added a few duct tape strips in the box, then you're a bit shady...and yes, so are most corporate giants. And????

    You admit there's an issue, state what you're going to do to address the problem, state the customer's options (return the phone without a restocking fee, within the 30-day window), and tell them how they can manage the problem, if they decide to keep the phone....with a bit of humility to soften the blow.

    But don't ever come off as if it's "no big deal", or respond with some "JUST buy this, or JUST hold the phone this way", like it's some kind of "duh" moment, and we're stupid for not thinking we would have to hold a phone a certain way, or buy something else to help with the basic operation of the phone.

    "JUST" take the phone back...would have been the closest to anything resembling a correct response, if Jobs was truly trying to be terse. Apple goofed, and they figured they could press on anyway...and they did, counting on their brand name to save them. Well, perhaps it's not going to be as neat and clean as they thought.

    People love the phone (because it is a great device, but it wasn't part of the "free phone with contract" lineup, so my expectations are higher, right or wrong), like me, and I would like to give Apple the opportunity to do right, before exercising my right to return the phone.

    I'm not a "whiner", nor am I stupid, a moron, or delusional.
    07-14-10 04:34 PM
  19. phonejunky's Avatar
    Tlynnsmith you seem to have a major issue with the way Apple handled te situation. Why not just tale it back and save yourself the pain of complaining about the situation. I'm not saying you are a complainer by any means but it seems you don't like their PR. So take it back tell them how you feel email Steve or what have you, and move on is what I would do if I felt as passionate as you about this mishap.
    07-14-10 04:48 PM
  20. Tlynnsmith's Avatar
    Tlynnsmith you seem to have a major issue with the way Apple handled te situation. Why not just tale it back and save yourself the pain of complaining about the situation. I'm not saying you are a complainer by any means but it seems you don't like their PR. So take it back tell them how you feel email Steve or what have you, and move on is what I would do if I felt as passionate as you about this mishap.
    Because, as I stated earlier, I'm waiting for Apple to release a fix.
    07-14-10 04:50 PM
  21. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    Tlynnsmith you seem to have a major issue with the way Apple handled te situation. Why not just tale it back and save yourself the pain of complaining about the situation. I'm not saying you are a complainer by any means but it seems you don't like their PR. So take it back tell them how you feel email Steve or what have you, and move on is what I would do if I felt as passionate as you about this mishap.
    Exactly. If the situation really makes a person that distraught, how about washing your hands of it? I just don't get it. People rather hold on to it and complain than moving on. You make yourself look silly by holding on to something that seems to be causing so much anguish. Good grief, it's a phone and people act like they are making a life or death choice.
    07-14-10 04:52 PM
  22. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    Because, as I stated earlier, I'm waiting for Apple to release a fix.
    How about taking the phone back just in case the "fix" doesn't come in time or it doesn't work?

    I mean honestly, you can't fix a hardware problem with a software update. Just take it back and get your money. If they fix it, buy it again. If not, you're free. Seems quite simple than being so upset about a situation you can actually change yourself. But I digress.
    07-14-10 04:53 PM
  23. Tlynnsmith's Avatar
    Exactly. If the situation really makes a person that distraught, how about wasshing your hands of it? I just don't get it. People rather hold on to it and complain than moving on. You make yourself look silly by holding on to something that seems to be causing so much anguish. Good grief, it's a phone and people act like they are making a life or death choice.
    You're the one who seems to be in anguish. Why is that?
    07-14-10 04:54 PM
  24. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    You admit there's an issue, state what you're going to do to address the problem, state the customer's options (return the phone without a restocking fee, within the 30-day window), and tell them how they can manage the problem, if they decide to keep the phone....with a bit of humility to soften the blow.
    Didn't they already do this?

    "We have discovered the cause of this dramatic drop in bars, and it is both simple and surprising.

    Upon investigation, we were stunned to find that the formula we use to calculate how many bars of signal strength to display is totally wrong. Our formula, in many instances, mistakenly displays 2 more bars than it should for a given signal strength. For example, we sometimes display 4 bars when we should be displaying as few as 2 bars. Users observing a drop of several bars when they grip their iPhone in a certain way are most likely in an area with very weak signal strength, but they don't know it because we are erroneously displaying 4 or 5 bars. Their big drop in bars is because their high bars were never real in the first place.

    To fix this, we are adopting AT&T's recently recommended formula for calculating how many bars to display for a given signal strength. The real signal strength remains the same, but the iPhone's bars will report it far more accurately, providing users a much better indication of the reception they will get in a given area. We are also making bars 1, 2 and 3 a bit taller so they will be easier to see.

    We will issue a free software update within a few weeks that incorporates the corrected formula. Since this mistake has been present since the original iPhone, this software update will also be available for the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 3G.

    We have gone back to our labs and retested everything, and the results are the same-- the iPhone 4's wireless performance is the best we have ever shipped. For the vast majority of users who have not been troubled by this issue, this software update will only make your bars more accurate. For those who have had concerns, we apologize for any anxiety we may have caused.

    As a reminder, if you are not fully satisfied, you can return your undamaged iPhone to any Apple Retail Store or the online Apple Store within 30 days of purchase for a full refund."


    There's even the word "apologize" towards the end.

    It may not have been what you wanted to hear, but the the basics of what you are asking for is there, admitting the issue, offering a solution, offering the option to return without restocking fee, and even a half-hearted apology.
    07-14-10 04:56 PM
  25. Tlynnsmith's Avatar
    How about taking the phone back just in case the "fix" doesn't come in time or it doesn't work?

    I mean honestly, you can't fix a hardware problem with a software update. Just take it back and get your money. If they fix it, buy it again. If not, you're free. Seems quite simple than being so upset about a situation you can actually change yourself. But I digress.
    Because I don't want to. Why do you care so much?

    It's not an issue of me being upset with the phone. I'm making GENERAL comments, based on the responses of OTHERS to this issue, not Apple's response.

    I know my rights as a consumer. If my responses irritate you so much, then why do you continue to respond to my posts?

    I said I LOVE the phone, yet I'm torn. Ever had that issue with...anything? If not, then good for you. If so, then reflect and relax...and stop gettin' bent out of shape, because I don't disagree with you. And yes...you've "digressed" from day one.
    Last edited by Tlynnsmith; 07-14-10 at 05:07 PM.
    07-14-10 04:58 PM
46 12
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD