02-11-12 01:04 AM
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  1. Skier1960's Avatar
    Get over yourselves. This reminds me of the vegetarian who talks about animal cruelty while you enjoy a steak dinner. All while she wears a pair of leather heels.

    Unless you plan on dumping half the belongings in your home, this argument is headed nowhere fast.
    If you read the whole thread that's exactly my point. I don't want put words in Xandermac's mouth, but I THINK he would agree also...

    I can't believe how civilized this thread has been. Great arguments, some good facts, and good opinions (of course my opinions are correct HA HA). Ok now let's go at er a little Harder..
    pri79269 likes this.
    02-10-12 05:23 AM
  2. Kofi901's Avatar
    Posters here should not be comparing Apple to RIM. RIM doesn't sell itself as an enlighten, ecological, environmentally friendly company trying to make the world a better place. My house is filled with Apple products partly for that reason. Todays majority of Apple purchasers are yesterdays M$ buyers who mostly never gave a damn about environmental/social issues. Am I going to stop buying Apple products? No, but I no longer sip the "think different" kool aid because as it turns out Apple is like every other company.
    I agree they shouldn't be a comparison
    02-10-12 06:24 AM
  3. xandermac's Avatar
    If you read the whole thread that's exactly my point. I don't want put words in Xandermac's mouth, but I THINK he would agree also...

    I can't believe how civilized this thread has been. Great arguments, some good facts, and good opinions (of course my opinions are correct HA HA). Ok now let's go at er a little Harder..
    Yep. For those that haven't caught onto my point it's that "ignorance is bliss" and "Practice what you preach"

    RIM hide the fact that their supply chain is rooted in China. On the outside everything looks lovely "Made in Mexico" "Canada" etc... Dig a little deeper (as we all should) and a different story presents itself. RIM are misleading their customers and keeping them ignorant of the actual problem and until these customers (of all manufacturers) wake up and ask "why" there won't be any substantial changes. Apple can't fix manufacturing alone, as long as people believe that they can they're actually letting all companies slide, including Apple.

    Users should demand transparency. As long as there is a "Made in China" stamp hidden on the inside of my device I expect a little transparency, (Made where in China, by Whom and have you audited them? What is your policy on human right & working conditions etc...) especially if I'm going to make an issue of it publicly, lest look like a hypocrite when actual evidence is presented.

    I know exactly where I stand with Apple because they're transparent.

    Blackberry users have no idea where they stand because RIM hide this information from them. If they wish to remain blissfully ignorant and point fingers, that's up to them, nothing I can do about it. If they choose to ignore the made in China stamp hidden away on the inside of their devices, refuse to ask questions of RIM and demand some transparency, that's up to them, nothing I can do

    It's up to all of us to demand better and expect more from all companies.


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    Last edited by xandermac; 02-10-12 at 06:49 AM.
    pri79269 likes this.
    02-10-12 06:39 AM
  4. johnny316's Avatar
    Apple.. HomeDepot.. Rim.. Samsung.. Walmart factory workers are all exploited, but Apple is the Class and Special. Apple's workers seems to be located in a Class II, Division 1, Group E area or Special occupancies (National Electrical Code 2011, Section 500 - Hazardous Classified locations) or CEC Section 18 with no protection for a combustible dust explosion to occur. 2 explosions within 6 months (May 2011 & Dec 2011) truly demonstrates what a Classy company has turned out to be.
    02-10-12 06:54 AM
  5. xandermac's Avatar
    Apple.. HomeDepot.. Rim.. Samsung.. Walmart factory workers are all exploited, but Apple is the Class and Special. Apple's workers seems to be located in a Class II, Division 1, Group E area or Special occupancies (National Electrical Code 2011, Section 500 - Hazardous Classified locations) or CEC Section 18 with no protection for a combustible dust explosion to occur. 2 explosions within 6 months (May 2011 & Dec 2011) truly demonstrates what a Classy company has turned out to be.
    Roughly 250,000 of those 1,200,000 employees work on Apple products. Use a little common sense and ask yourself what do the remaining 950,000 work on? Foxconn make 40% of the worlds consumer electronics. I promise you that you own and use some of those products. Talk about classy.

    #hypocrite #practicewhatyoupreach


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    02-10-12 07:01 AM
  6. xandermac's Avatar
    Major Customers.

    Foxconn manufactures products for companies including: (there are plenty more)

    Acer Inc. (Taiwan)
    Amazon.com (United States)
    Apple Inc. (United States)
    ASRock (Taiwan)
    Asus (Taiwan)
    Barnes & Noble (United States)
    Cisco (United States)
    Dell (United States)
    EVGA Corporation (United States)
    Hewlett-Packard (United States)
    Intel (United States)
    IBM (United States)
    Lenovo (China)
    Microsoft (United States)
    MSI (Taiwan)
    Motorola (United States)
    Netgear (United States)
    Nintendo (Japan)
    Nokia (Finland)
    Panasonic (Japan)
    Samsung (South Korea)
    Sharp (Japan)
    Sony (Japan)
    Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)
    Vizio (United States)

    There were rumors in 2009 of RIM and Foxconn partnering. With flextronics Penang plant shutting down this now seems more likely. Not that many major ESMs to choose from these days.

    There was talk about RIM investing in its own Malaysian plants but as they're down to 1.5 billion in cash they just do not have the money now and i'll guarantee they won't find outside investment.


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    Last edited by xandermac; 02-10-12 at 07:46 AM.
    02-10-12 07:07 AM
  7. FRG_RC's Avatar
    Every-time I see this kind of thread pop up I can't help but laugh a how naive can people be.

    Protip: Corporations are profit-driven, period. If you believe that RIM is some kind of holier-than-thou company and Apple is just the villain you're dead wrong, both of them are evil, if you want it.

    People bashing at Apple for company's policies is what driven apple, out of profit AGAIN, to announce that they actually DO something about labor conditions on China, Apple, and RIM for that matter, don't give a damn about that people, the only thing they care is how much money they can make this quarter.

    If you believe that ANY corporation cares about ANYTHING but profits, you're just naive.
    02-10-12 07:43 AM
  8. Mrluky's Avatar
    yes most of the big time companys have connections to china and all those countrys over there.why do you think it is takeing the economy so long to rise this time around.the manufacturing jobs are all over seas now , us little americans cant find jobs to bring our own economy back..but dont worry george bush said the triccle down affect should take care of us americans right.
    02-10-12 08:02 AM
  9. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Every-time I see this kind of thread pop up I can't help but laugh a how naive can people be.

    Protip: Corporations are profit-driven, period. If you believe that RIM is some kind of holier-than-thou company and Apple is just the villain you're dead wrong, both of them are evil, if you want it.

    People bashing at Apple for company's policies is what driven apple, out of profit AGAIN, to announce that they actually DO something about labor conditions on China, Apple, and RIM for that matter, don't give a damn about that people, the only thing they care is how much money they can make this quarter.

    If you believe that ANY corporation cares about ANYTHING but profits, you're just naive.

    LOL... I don't own current Apple products and find it funny. The high-horsing is remarkable. They really believe that their "chosen" companies care about ethics.

    If it was not so funny, it would be sad. I say they should keep making a stand for mankind by using RIM.

    Wow.
    02-10-12 08:09 AM
  10. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    There were rumors in 2009 of RIM and Foxconn partnering. With flextronics Penang plant shutting down this now seems more likely. Not that many major ESMs to choose from these days.
    Flextronics is a major RIM partner. The folks clamoring for ethical practices here should research them. It's quite interesting.

    Of course, it doesn't really count because "RIM doesn't make as much money as Apple" (which, for the record, is the SILLIEST excuse I have ever heard on CB).
    02-10-12 08:19 AM
  11. NursingNinja's Avatar
    This is a mobile phone site, hence the related link to iphone sweat shop factories. I'm sure on cardiganenthusiast.com they too have "stop the Chinese sweat shop" days....but no one brings up iphones.
    We should all be concerned about Chinese sweat shops, they have a bad impact on American labor too.
    02-10-12 08:30 AM
  12. RetroAndreas's Avatar
    02-10-12 08:55 AM
  13. apengue1's Avatar
    So can anyone still provide any proof that other companies manufacturing at foxconn have had any explosions while doing so? If they did I'm sure we would have heard about it in the news..
    02-10-12 09:12 AM
  14. avt123's Avatar
    lol that's good stuff.
    02-10-12 09:25 AM
  15. apengue1's Avatar
    Haha that really was a funny video. I bookmarked it!

    Can I make a suggestion though? This whole thread.. its good for discussion, but in the end I think both sides are looking for a win, and are craving it soo much. They want their argument to be heard and approved. We all know that's never going to happen...

    There's been 8 pages already. How many more until you fulfill the need to want to be right?

    I think it would help if everyone from the blackberry side and the apple side say one bad thing they dont like about their device, or a con, or just something that another device maybe can do better than each of your respective devices. If everyone just points out one thing, just one, about their own devices, and then say no more, we may be surprised at how much it may help the situation! It solves nothing to be yelling at each other. We all know that if it ever came down to it and the world was ending and by chance you were next to that other person, you know you'd work as a team to get through it. You're not actual enemies.

    Ill start: I wish my 9700 had a better browser capabilites (OS6)
    As for my Playbook: I wish they were a little more consistent with the hardware (dead pixels, lump on back, and whatever else) Still very usable, but still.

    Next?
    02-10-12 11:14 AM
  16. xandermac's Avatar
    Haha that really was a funny video. I bookmarked it!

    Can I make a suggestion though? This whole thread.. its good for discussion, but in the end I think both sides are looking for a win, and are craving it soo much. They want their argument to be heard and approved. We all know that's never going to happen...

    There's been 8 pages already. How many more until you fulfill the need to want to be right?

    I think it would help if everyone from the blackberry side and the apple side say one bad thing they dont like about their device, or a con, or just something that another device maybe can do better than each of your respective devices. If everyone just points out one thing, just one, about their own devices, and then say no more, we may be surprised at how much it may help the situation! It solves nothing to be yelling at each other. We all know that if it ever came down to it and the world was ending and by chance you were next to that other person, you know you'd work as a team to get through it. You're not actual enemies.

    Ill start: I wish my 9700 had a better browser capabilites (OS6)
    As for my Playbook: I wish they were a little more consistent with the hardware (dead pixels, lump on back, and whatever else) Still very usable, but still.

    Next?
    iPhone keyboard sucks. Built in sharing between apps sucks. Notifications STILL suck (no reliability at all for FB). iMessage security flaw sucks (yes, it's a flaw regardless of how apple spin it).


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    02-10-12 11:26 AM
  17. shn'g's Avatar
    This forum is soo annoying to me! I am soon sick of RIM bashing so I join a blackberry forum.. Nope still bashing . I'm glad apple is getting what is coming to them!.... And I don't want one of those gay comments like oh you have blinders on.

    Yes post above is right! Maps SUCK on playbook! And browser I constantly hit a link when I am just trying to scroll! Uhh

    IPhone is attached to the worst piece of software I have ever used! (itunes) i need folders and files for quick drag and drop.
    Last edited by shn; 02-10-12 at 01:07 PM.
    sk8er_tor likes this.
    02-10-12 01:01 PM
  18. jivegirl14's Avatar
    Oh here we go, my battery is built in Japan and further proccesed in Indonesia, hardly "made" in China then, just my point exactly.
    It matters not one whit what you say, your battery or phone could have been built on the moon as long as there is some way to rope RIM in with something Apple's currently being blamed for. No one really cares where their tech toys (and all the things they've grown used to having) are made. Or at least they don't care enough. They only care if they don't get said things when they want them, if they don't work, and if they have to pay more for them. If they did care they'd be voting with their feet and refusing to purchase them because all or part of said things are made in China. Do you hear the tramping of feet?

    Didn't think so.
    02-10-12 02:53 PM
  19. sk8er_tor's Avatar
    Absolutely. But shouldn't it say "made in china, assembled in mexico"?

    Car manufacturers are required to specify what percentage of parts are made in China and also specify where the car was assembled. Why should it be any different for electronics manufacturers?

    RIM try to mislead everybody by saying made in Mexico on the outside yet the internals clearly show it's actually made in China.

    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    My fridge says Made in USA but do you think the steel, the comporessor, the hinges, etc all came from the USA? "Made in" is obviously the place that the components are assembled and made into a working product. RIM is not misleading anyone and is conforming to all laws. I don't know where you get off accusing RIM of "misleading" anyone.

    At least RIM assembles in Mexico, Canada, and other countries where employees get paid and treated fairly. The same can't be said about Apple. EVERYTHING from Apple is made and assembled in China by slave labor.
    02-10-12 02:55 PM
  20. thebignewt's Avatar
    My fridge says Made in USA but do you think the steel, the comporessor, the hinges, etc all came from the USA? "Made in" is obviously the place that the components are assembled and made into a working product.

    At least RIM assembles in Mexico, Canada, and other countries where employees get paid and treated fairly. The same can't be said about Apple. EVERYTHING from Apple is made and assembled in China by slave labor.
    The labor price of assembling an iPhone in China isn't that different from here. It would only cost $68 more to assemble it here. Unfortunately the USA no longer has a workforce that is as flexible as China's. Electonics parts are more plentiful there. Corning makes the glass for a lot of electonics, they used to make it here, but it takes a month to ship it to China so they make it there now. The USA doesn't have an engineering force as big as China's. Those are the sad facts. The sweatshop stories are cute, but that was long ago.
    02-10-12 03:38 PM
  21. tchocky77's Avatar
    Was RIM acused of anything? Why do they need to respond?

    Rim buys components from China, they don't build products in China, big difference.
    That's just dense. For all you know, producing components is more labor-intensive than assembling them into a finished product. But that doesn't matter as long as the finished product is no one wants, is that it? So it's only an injustice if the product is best in it's class an people are willing to pay for it? In fact, line up by the millions to pay for it?

    Please You're a clown.
    02-10-12 05:15 PM
  22. RetroAndreas's Avatar
    02-10-12 05:19 PM
  23. tchocky77's Avatar
    Flextronics is a major RIM partner. The folks clamoring for ethical practices here should research them. It's quite interesting.

    Of course, it doesn't really count because "RIM doesn't make as much money as Apple" (which, for the record, is the SILLIEST excuse I have ever heard on CB).
    EXACTLY!


    /thread.
    02-10-12 05:22 PM
  24. apengue1's Avatar
    Well, at least I tried. You guys should listen to yourselves.. you all sound ridiculous. No one has the upper hand in the conversation and no one will ever win. Its so pointless. I agree in the way it makes me frickin pissed off too.. but theres just no use anymore.
    02-10-12 06:40 PM
  25. Alex_Hong's Avatar
    saw this on twitter a few weeks back.

    "Boycotting Apple for better Foxconn wages & conditions is like having sex for virginity. Entirely counter-productiveÖ"

    The Apple Boycott: People Are Spouting Nonsense about Chinese Manufacturing - Forbes

    i kinda agree.
    02-10-12 09:19 PM
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