02-11-12 01:04 AM
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  1. palmless's Avatar
    Ugh, what a day for Apple... is tomorrow here yet???
    02-09-12 07:10 PM
  2. dodger_moore's Avatar
    Well, they are free to quit, which negates the primary definition of slavery. And they do actually apply voluntarily for the work permits to get these jobs (there is tremendous demand for this because the wages are quite high comparatively).

    Now, you could say that if they quit, their families will suffer financially. But then again, isn't that true for most of us around the world who have mortgages and other bills to pay?

    But the point is, none of this is new. This has been part of China's economic strategy for at least 30 years that I'm aware of, possibly longer. Long before Apple ever had a contract with Foxconn. This is the engine that China created to make themselves an economic superpower.

    Everything we see now with the emergence of the Chinese middle class, and Chinese ownership of so much European and American debt, has been built on their 30 years of these so-called special economic zones.
    3rd and 4th paragraph very interesting.

    Re: definition of slavery - being able to 'quit' is arbitrary in this case I reckon. Sure, we all would suffer if we just quit our jobs, but we have the choice and means to freely pursue work which we find fulfilling AND financially rewarding. The fact that people are volunteering to work in these conditions either means a) conditions are orsum or b) they are desperate to provide for their families.

    Back to 3rd and 4th parag.-glad you bring this up as someone posted earlier that the Chinese Govt. should demand better for their workers. And exactly! As if the Chinese Govt. give a tuppence what happens to the odd worker here and there. Who audits Foxconn anyway?

    Drifting to a point I made earlier (in response to one saying China as a whole is a sweatshop), there are factories where workers have some sense of liberty thank God. Many sectors have seen manuf. price rises across the board as better conditions are bought into play for Chinese workers.

    I was in Nicaragua three years ago. The locals told me that they were working in factories making stuff for Chinese factories. Maybe China is outsourcing now...
    02-09-12 07:10 PM
  3. Dookieman's Avatar
    I hope everyone knows that Foxconn has other HUGE companies it caters too. Microsoft, Sony, AND Apple all use Foxconn facilities. This is NOT an Apple only issue. It's a country and an employer issue. Where was your 360 built? Foxconn. PS3? Foxconn. Probably 200 other electronic products? Foxconn or China.

    Belfast - This is not a money issue. Apple sells their phones at a very reasonable price. They are less expensive (Depending on the GB size) then most new Droids and your precious BB. Apple made huge profit because everyone (but the people on this forum) bought an iPhone, or wants to buy an iPhone.

    You are entitled to like whatever piece of electronics you want.

    Long story short: Apple's huge quarter = They broke sales records.

    There is zero correlation with their high profits because it was built at Foxconn or China.
    02-09-12 07:16 PM
  4. app_Developer's Avatar
    Re: definition of slavery - being able to 'quit' is arbitrary in this case I reckon. Sure, we all would suffer if we just quit our jobs, but we have the choice and means to freely pursue work which we find fulfilling AND financially rewarding.
    Consider yourself fortunate. It is a very, very, very small percentage of people who get to freely choose employment that is both fulfilling and economically rewarding.

    Most people are just trying to avoid having to watch their children grow up uneducated, starving, or diseased. Anything that puts rice into their child's belly to live another day is worth it, no matter how tough this work is.

    (My parents are immigrants from a very poor country that I visit every year)
    02-09-12 07:17 PM
  5. gjohnsto's Avatar
    Consider yourself fortunate. It is a very, very, very small percentage of people who get to freely choose employment that is both fulfilling and economically rewarding.

    Most people are just trying to avoid having to watch their children grow up uneducated, starving, or diseased. Anything that puts rice into their child's belly to live another day is worth it, no matter how tough this work is.

    (My parents are immigrants from a very poor country that I visit every year)
    much respect to you and your family... however, foxconn has put nets around the roofs of their taller buildings so people can no longer commit suicide by jumping of them; that is not indicative of the sort of sacrifice you're talking about.
    02-09-12 07:32 PM
  6. xandermac's Avatar
    much respect to you and your family... however, foxconn has put nets around the roofs of their taller buildings so people can no longer commit suicide by jumping of them; that is not indicative of the sort of sacrifice you're talking about.
    That's a company that cares about its staff. I personally wouldn't want my staff jumping onto my Benz either


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    02-09-12 07:38 PM
  7. xandermac's Avatar
    xandermac is it possible the parts come from china but the device is constructed in mexico? I would think that makes more sense.
    Absolutely. But shouldn't it say "made in china, assembled in mexico"?

    Car manufacturers are required to specify what percentage of parts are made in China and also specify where the car was assembled. Why should it be any different for electronics manufacturers?

    RIM try to mislead everybody by saying made in Mexico on the outside yet the internals clearly show it's actually made in China.

    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    Last edited by xandermac; 02-09-12 at 07:44 PM.
    02-09-12 07:40 PM
  8. app_Developer's Avatar
    much respect to you and your family... however, foxconn has put nets around the roofs of their taller buildings so people can no longer commit suicide by jumping of them; that is not indicative of the sort of sacrifice you're talking about.
    There are more than 3,000 suicides each year in Canada. Let's say half of them were employed. Does that mean Canadian employers are solely to blame for their depression?

    Let's say you took some other village of a million people in China or India or Cambodia. Or a small city of a million people in Europe. How many suicides would you expect to see in those cities or villages? Certainly more than 10, yes?
    Last edited by app_Developer; 02-09-12 at 07:46 PM.
    02-09-12 07:42 PM
  9. pri79269's Avatar
    Get over yourselves. This reminds me of the vegetarian who talks about animal cruelty while you enjoy a steak dinner. All while she wears a pair of leather heels.

    Unless you plan on dumping half the belongings in your home, this argument is headed nowhere fast.
    02-09-12 07:46 PM
  10. olblueyez's Avatar
    This China thing is not an Apple issue. It's worldwide economic issue. One that took decades to build and one that companies like Apple are actually helping.

    This article by PC Magazine best describes the situation:
    Your saying Apple is helping the situation because:

    "[Foxconn] could hire 3,000 people overnight," said Jennifer Rigoni, Apple's former worldwide supply demand manager, in an interview with the Times. "What U.S. plant can find 3,000 people overnight and convince them to live in dorms?"

    Really? That's how they help? A corporate insider spews out a few lines and that makes it ok?

    What they don't tell you is Apple made as much money as mobile oil and all the money saved by using slave labor in China goes directly into cororate pockets higher up at Apple.

    Apple has waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more Than enough money to demand better working conditions for those people. Anyone tells you other wise is a fool or a liar.
    Last edited by olblueyez; 02-09-12 at 08:22 PM.
    02-09-12 08:14 PM
  11. sosumi11's Avatar
    Apple has waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more Than enough money to demand better working conditions for those people. Anyone tells you other wise is a fool or a liar.
    So you think that just because Apple has money they can change all the population/poverty/employment issues in China?????

    Perhaps this Forbes article will enlighten you that what is considered poor pay, poor working conditions in one country is not in another.

    The Apple Boycott: People Are Spouting Nonsense about Chinese Manufacturing
    Last edited by sosumi11; 02-09-12 at 08:31 PM.
    02-09-12 08:28 PM
  12. xandermac's Avatar
    So you think that just because Apple has money they can change all the population/poverty/employment issues in China?????

    Perhaps this Forbes article will enlighten you that what is considered poor pay, poor working conditions in one country is not in another.

    The Apple Boycott: People Are Spouting Nonsense about Chinese Manufacturing
    Excellent article and his numbers are close to mine I guess some of us actually do our research.


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    Last edited by xandermac; 02-09-12 at 08:50 PM.
    02-09-12 08:47 PM
  13. kbz1960's Avatar
    Are people really comparing the rates of countries compared to a company?

    How large is foxcon?
    02-09-12 08:57 PM
  14. xandermac's Avatar
    Are people really comparing the rates of countries compared to a company?

    How large is foxcon?
    1.2 million workers.


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    02-09-12 09:00 PM
  15. pri79269's Avatar
    Excellent article and his numbers are close to mine I guess some of us actually do our research.


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    I love facts!
    02-09-12 09:24 PM
  16. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Get over yourselves. This reminds me of the vegetarian who talks about animal cruelty while you enjoy a steak dinner. All while she wears a pair of leather heels.

    Unless you plan on dumping half the belongings in your home, this argument is headed nowhere fast.
    LOL... it is funny...

    Mobile post via Tapatalk
    02-09-12 09:56 PM
  17. gord888's Avatar
    I like how everyone looks at the numbers. It makes it a whole lot easier to turn a blind eye when you turn worker deaths into statistics. This whole fiasco shed light on a situation in China that is deplorable, and yet many people choose to look at the numbers. I suppose we could look at soldiers deaths in Afganastan as just numbers too right? Death is death, and it is tragic no matter what - please don't lose sight of that.
    02-09-12 10:24 PM
  18. Waterloo User's Avatar
    Dont know if it has been stated, but I suspect 2 things;

    1. I suspect there a very specific laws that articulates exactly what must be stated on a product, wrt where is was made or assembled.

    2. I would not be surprised if key components of the blackberry were made at Foxconn in China.
    02-09-12 11:14 PM
  19. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Absolutely. But shouldn't it say "made in china, assembled in mexico"?

    Car manufacturers are required to specify what percentage of parts are made in China and also specify where the car was assembled. Why should it be any different for electronics manufacturers?

    RIM try to mislead everybody by saying made in Mexico on the outside yet the internals clearly show it's actually made in China.

    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    You're contradicting yourself now, so Rim tells you the phone is made in Hungary, some components tell you they're made in China, the battery tells you it was built in Japan and further processed in Indonesia.

    Sounds to me like they're not hiding anything.

    In any case, to stamp it "made in China" would be a lie too
    02-10-12 12:22 AM
  20. ritesh's Avatar
    Love the way, all the Apple users get all defensive,when something anti-apple is posted. I bet all of them must be from the USA. True patriots !
    maddie1128 likes this.
    02-10-12 12:31 AM
  21. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Love the way, all the Apple users get all defensive,when something anti-apple is posted. I bet all of them must be from the USA. True patriots !
    You're right, some pages ago the conversation turned to unfounded Rim bashing anyway.
    maddie1128 likes this.
    02-10-12 12:36 AM
  22. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Love the way, all the Apple users get all defensive,when something anti-apple is posted. I bet all of them must be from the USA. True patriots !
    Yep, they will NOT stand for the conditions in China... now that Apple has been called out about their labor practices...
    02-10-12 12:36 AM
  23. Kofi901's Avatar
    I don't get why all these rich companies cannot provide a "stable" living for these workers. Forget technology it should be about the treatment of human beings
    02-10-12 12:39 AM
  24. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    The Chinese government is willing to, and has, sacrificed its people to become a world power. Corporations are just taking advantage of that.
    02-10-12 12:51 AM
  25. RetroAndreas's Avatar
    Posters here should not be comparing Apple to RIM. RIM doesn't sell itself as an enlighten, ecological, environmentally friendly company trying to make the world a better place. My house is filled with Apple products partly for that reason. Todays majority of Apple purchasers are yesterdays M$ buyers who mostly never gave a damn about environmental/social issues. Am I going to stop buying Apple products? No, but I no longer sip the "think different" kool aid because as it turns out Apple is like every other company.
    02-10-12 01:11 AM
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