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Sent from my iPhone4s using TapatalkSkier1960 likes this.02-09-12 01:55 PMLike 1 -
- Excellent. Did you dump your blackberry also? The RIM supply chain is rooted in china, but I'm sure you know that? RIM also contribute to 7 million death/murders in the Congo by their continued use of conflict mineral, again, I'm sure you know that. You wouldn't just blindly sign a petition without researching the matter I'm sure. I'm glad you're a man of principal.
RIMs supply chain is deeply embedded in china. Everything in the article (and the Bloomberg article it links to) is verifiable.
RIM publish no corporate responsibility report, no supply chain responsibility guidelines, they don't audit their supply chain or have a human rights code of conduct. Only Apple does.
Do You Know Who Manufactured Your Blackberry? - Forbes
And of course all your accessories.
Click to view quoted image
Eagerly awaiting your announcement that you're becoming Amish.
Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk02-09-12 02:15 PMLike 0 - avt123O.G.
But my point was still that this is not something that Apple can settle on their own. The Chinese government needs to step up and demand better policies for their citizens.
I do agree Apple should do something (and it seems like they are or are going to), but like I said, this is much bigger than Apple.Skier1960 likes this.02-09-12 03:06 PMLike 1 - Why do they need better policy at Foxconn?
Workplace deaths in the United States 35 deaths per million.
Workplace deaths at Foxconn 4 deaths per million.
Suicide rates.
18 per million. Foxconn
223 per million. China
111 per million. USA
They're doing better than us with workplace safety!
Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk02-09-12 03:12 PMLike 2 - That wasn't my point. And we don't know if other companies are just as bad or worse.
But my point was still that this is not something that Apple can settle on their own. The Chinese government needs to step up and demand better policies for their citizens.
I do agree Apple should do something (and it seems like they are or are going to), but like I said, this is much bigger than Apple.avt123 likes this.02-09-12 03:15 PMLike 1 - avt123O.G.Ok I lied I'm back on this thread (OCD). Now that's a very valid point. The only thing is that "The Chinese government needs to step up and demand better policies for their citizens" as we all know will not happen any time soon. The Chinese government is as corrupt as any Regime in the world..02-09-12 03:22 PMLike 0
- HE'S CONFUSED???? Made-built,Cycle-Cycling,TV-Television,Plant-Factory,Hockey-Ice Hockey,Boxing-Sweet Science Etc Etc...02-09-12 03:31 PMLike 0
- Why do they need better policy at Foxconn?
Workplace deaths in the United States 35 deaths per million.
Workplace deaths at Foxconn 4 deaths per million.
Suicide rates.
18 per million. Foxconn
223 per million. China
111 per million. USA
They're doing better than us with workplace safety!
Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk02-09-12 03:39 PMLike 0 - Nothing? Really? Way to trivialize life.
2011.
Foxconn had 1 million workers. (1.2 actually but for rounding sake. The rates are actually lower/better than I stated)
18 suicides.
4 deaths.
Far far lower than the Chinese or American average (and probably Canada considering its Canada )
Sent from my iPhone4s using TapatalkLast edited by xandermac; 02-09-12 at 03:52 PM.
app_Developer likes this.02-09-12 03:47 PMLike 1 - Sorry if this has been covered, but since when does Made in Mexico equal the high, moral labor standards of first-world countries? Isn't Mexico the place so corrupt and depressing that their own people load up in trucks and sneak across the borders for better jobs like picking berries in fields for slave wages here in the states?
Also, how many people actually die working in a Chinese factory as opposed to the thousands dying as a direct result of conflict minerals?
Finally, why are almost all of these pro-labor, anti-Apple posts being typed on machines made in those very same factories? I can't figure out if I'm supposed to isolate China from the rest of the world, or just eliminate Apple from China so that RIM and other competitors can have more use of the factories and cheap Chinese labor.02-09-12 05:26 PMLike 0 - Sorry if this has been covered, but since when does Made in Mexico equal the high, moral labor standards of first-world countries? Isn't Mexico the place so corrupt and depressing that their own people load up in trucks and sneak across the borders for better jobs like picking berries in fields for slave wages here in the states?
Also, how many people actually die working in a Chinese factory as opposed to the thousands dying as a direct result of conflict minerals?
Finally, why are almost all of these pro-labor, anti-Apple posts being typed on machines made in those very same factories? I can't figure out if I'm supposed to isolate China from the rest of the world, or just eliminate Apple from China so that RIM and other competitors can have more use of the factories and cheap Chinese labor.02-09-12 05:36 PMLike 0 - Meh, I'll be keeping my blackberry. Just about everything in walmart is made in china except the food and my fujitsu tablet pc. Probably even your power tools and car parts are also made in china, even batteries for all our stuff, including all but a few makes/models of our computers/tablets are made in china.02-09-12 05:39 PMLike 0
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- Look at the label on most things you buy, "Made in China". Almost everything made in China is from a sweat shop, and I say almost but I think it would be safe to say all... China IS a sweat shop. Go look in your closet and work shops etc.. Then look in the mirror. Most manufacturers are guilty of this practice, it's sad but true. Did I mention Walmart, Target,Best Buy etc etc... Apple gets the ink because their the big bad kid on the block..
Interesting day for naive people...
Did you just make all that nonsense up on the spot? I wonder what experience you have of manufacturing in China to back your comment up.
I work (like many) in an industry that has the majority of its products made in China. Conditions are far from 'sweatshop'. Not saying that Foxconn isn't a foul place to work but why not wind your neck in with the sweeping categorisations.02-09-12 06:05 PMLike 0 -
Suicides and suicide rate, by sex and by age group
This is not to trivialize the tragedy of suicide, but just to put this all in perspective.
Apple's success no doubt attracts more scrutiny (a good thing in my opinion), and I hope Apple will push Foxconn to do more for its workers. But I can't understand the lack of perspective in comparing Foxconn to China as a whole or the world as a whole.02-09-12 06:24 PMLike 0 - This is compared to about 220 suicides per million in China, and 112 suicides per million in Canada in 2008:
Suicides and suicide rate, by sex and by age group
This is not to trivialize the tragedy of suicide, but just to put this all in perspective.
Apple's success no doubt attracts more scrutiny (a good thing in my opinion), and I hope Apple will push Foxconn to do more for its workers. But I can't understand the lack of perspective in comparing Foxconn to China as a whole or the world as a whole.
So some of those 220 per million Chinese that killed themselves could have been made up of Foxconn employees who killed themselves while not on the premises and thusly not counted in the Foxconn stats?02-09-12 06:30 PMLike 0 - The innards of my "made in mexico" 9700.
Click to view quoted image
Really? 2 for 2. This kind of deceit really is troubling. Especially when the users "truly" care about human rights and want to believe they're supporting a company that is making a difference.
Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
And I people are going after Apple. Apple is the top dog right now so they are the one to mention. Using their name gets the word out. Doing so might change things there. Thats not a bad thing.
James02-09-12 06:38 PMLike 0 -
Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk02-09-12 06:40 PMLike 0 - I could be wrong but I thought the point was they committed suicide and died while at work - because of work?
So some of those 220 per million Chinese that killed themselves could have been made up of Foxconn employees who killed themselves while not on the premises and thusly not counted in the Foxconn stats?02-09-12 06:44 PMLike 0 -
EDIT: Or here's a different yet still grim way to look at it: The Independent reported on a survey that found people can suffer an increased risk of suicide whilst on anti-depressants. The theory (anecdotal among NHS doctors) is because the 'liberation' of the drugs enables them to get 'organised' and to a place of perspective required to commit the act. Maybe going home from the factory could do that.Last edited by dodger_moore; 02-09-12 at 06:54 PM.
02-09-12 06:47 PMLike 0 - Well, they are free to quit, which negates the primary definition of slavery. And they do actually apply voluntarily for the work permits to get these jobs (there is tremendous demand for this because the wages are quite high comparatively).
Now, you could say that if they quit, their families will suffer financially. But then again, isn't that true for most of us around the world who have mortgages and other bills to pay?
But the point is, none of this is new. This has been part of China's economic strategy for at least 30 years that I'm aware of, possibly longer. Long before Apple ever had a contract with Foxconn. This is the engine that China created to make themselves an economic superpower.
Everything we see now with the emergence of the Chinese middle class, and Chinese ownership of so much European and American debt, has been built on their 30 years of these so-called special economic zones.02-09-12 06:57 PMLike 0 - kbz1960Doesn't MatterWell, they are free to quit, which negates the primary definition of slavery. And they do actually apply voluntarily for the work permits to get these jobs (there is tremendous demand for this because the wages are quite high comparatively).
Now, you could say that if they quit, their families will suffer financially. But then again, isn't that true for most of us around the world who have mortgages and other bills to pay?
But the point is, none of this is new. This has been part of China's economic strategy for at least 30 years that I'm aware of, possibly longer. Long before Apple ever had a contract with Foxconn. This is the engine that China created to make themselves an economic superpower.
Everything we see now with the emergence of the Chinese middle class, and Chinese ownership of so much European and American debt, has been built on their 30 years of these so-called special economic zones.02-09-12 07:02 PMLike 0
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