[ugahairydawgs]

Not to be too pedantic, but LIGHT YEARS is a unit of distance not time.
So 1997 cannot be "light years" away. It was only 15 years ago.
If 1997 was in fact "light years" away then it would follow that 1997 is very far off but you can still travel to it in a sufficiently fast vehicle. Which would be absurd.

Anyway, now that my tryst with pedantry is over, carry on with your post. You should get your flame suit out. Just some friendly advice.

[omniusovermind]

lol. Anyway, aren't light years a measurement of both space and time? What do you think of all this Mr. Spock?

[ugahairydawgs]

I really cant see why people will be just fine with two platforms, apple and google!! what happen to diversity or market niche. I relate this to movie or music genres, if the same two type of movies come out weekly will people continue to flock to the movies or get bored with the movies all together?

Blackberry is the most secure platform period. Sure they miss the boat on the upgrades and all BUT compared to Apple whom holds back on their product innovations to get the most money it can get out of consumers before they truly upgrade to something better ie. the suppose new Iphone 5. Apple users are suckers for falling for this every single time.

The reason why BB World did so great and the new CEO is on the right path in leading its 75 million subscribers is because of niche nothing more nothing less BB loyalist know why they love the product and hate it and why they will and wont in the future it all boils down to niche which for the first time since i've been a bb supporter is define. I dont need millions of apps in a cell phone I need a phone that can help me succeed and be my "right hand man" aka jarvis from Iron man not Siri from Apple and with the new direction of BB I have no doubt bb will produce the Jarvis like interface to help people succeed.

I don't think anyone wants lack of choice. But people aren't going to prop up the garbage that RIM currently offers just for the sake of keeping competition alive.

Truth be told, and I know hardcore Blackberry fans don't want to hear this, at this point RIM is no longer "competition" with Apple and Google. The Blackberry platform is barely more than a blip on the radar. Hopefully they can come back and provide a shot in the arm of the mobile industry....but I'm not holding my breath.

[Frosty_Power]

I don't think anyone wants lack of choice. But people aren't going to prop up the garbage that RIM currently offers just for the sake of keeping competition alive.

Truth be told, and I know hardcore Blackberry fans don't want to hear this, at this point RIM is no longer "competition" with Apple and Google. The Blackberry platform is barely more than a blip on the radar. Hopefully they can come back and provide a shot in the arm of the mobile industry....but I'm not holding my breath.

I think the OP was trying to point out this in his original post. Take your post and replace "RIM" with Apple and "Blackberry Platform" with iOS. The OP's points exactly, don't count RIM out yet, as mentioned with Apple's troubles in the past.

[roderickwill]

I am a fan of bb and a realistic all the same. Your avg consumer is less than educated when it comes to technology and what goes on under the hood so they can be sold in on anything ie M.S. before they bailed out Apple and now Apple before the Heins took over and is helping lead RIM in a new direction like Jobs did when Apple was heading down the toilet. Am I saying Heins on the same level has Jobs now but I am saying he is gathering the right resources to compete. The U.S. is always the last country to catch onto technology and the advances of it. We're years behind in the wireless technology Globally and what does RIM have more so than Droid and I will admit Apple is creeping in on Global they not there yet. RIM has a Global market following outside of the US and lets not forget the U.S. Dollar is very weak in this global economy the Canadian dollar is stronger than the dollar.

If RIM fails its because they didnt innovate well enough in a consumer brainwash field because I believe the new UI on BB10 can compete with Apple and Google yet I have yet to see a Apple or Goolge Admit its like they just want either those two. What's left?

I don't think anyone wants lack of choice. But people aren't going to prop up the garbage that RIM currently offers just for the sake of keeping competition alive.

Truth be told, and I know hardcore Blackberry fans don't want to hear this, at this point RIM is no longer "competition" with Apple and Google. The Blackberry platform is barely more than a blip on the radar. Hopefully they can come back and provide a shot in the arm of the mobile industry....but I'm not holding my breath.

[MartyMcfly]

I am a fan of bb and a realistic all the same. Your avg consumer is less than educated when it comes to technology and what goes on under the hood so they can be sold in on anything ie M.S. before they bailed out Apple and now Apple before the Heins took over and is helping lead RIM in a new direction like Jobs did when Apple was heading down the toilet. Am I saying Heins on the same level has Jobs now but I am saying he is gathering the right resources to compete. The U.S. is always the last country to catch onto technology and the advances of it. We're years behind in the wireless technology Globally and what does RIM have more so than Droid and I will admit Apple is creeping in on Global they not there yet. RIM has a Global market following outside of the US and lets not forget the U.S. Dollar is very weak in this global economy the Canadian dollar is stronger than the dollar.

If RIM fails its because they didnt innovate well enough in a consumer brainwash field because I believe the new UI on BB10 can compete with Apple and Google yet I have yet to see a Apple or Goolge Admit its like they just want either those two. What's left?

Average consumer wants Netflix angry birds, hbo go, skype and other popular applications. Currently ios/android/winmo7 offers the best consumer experience. How would you educate/persuade consumers to choose a bb over the other three?


Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk

[apengue1]

Average consumer wants Netflix angry birds, hbo go, skype and other popular applications. Currently ios/android/winmo7 offers the best consumer experience. How would you educate/persuade consumers to choose a bb over the other three?


Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk

Let you know when BB10 is available.

[RetroAndreas]

Average consumer wants Netflix angry birds, hbo go, skype and other popular applications. Currently ios/android/winmo7 offers the best consumer experience. How would you educate/persuade consumers to choose a bb over the other three?

BB10 needs to give the consumer 90% of your list above and 100% of the BB experience/security to stay relevant.

I really hope RIMM pulls it off.

[roderickwill]

To follow up my point with the U.S. as oppose to the rest of the world in regards to bb. In america lets face it netflixs, social media and games run amuck. The education system in this country sucks its rapidly declining in world rankings. Which is why the national reading avg for this country is six grade. Now look at other countries where BB is exceling these are countries where they are more focus on productivy and production as oppose to a netflixs or a angry birds. Thus it brings me back to RIM's marketing niche BB are phones built for Success first and all the other stuff is there but its not as important. BUT you need those netflixs and angry birds to gain some form of recovery in a what's popular consumer market which is the U.S. market.

Here's a snapshot of some of the other markets RIM is competing in, in comparison with one of the worldwide smartphone market leaders - Apple (AAPL):

In Latin America, RIM sold 10.6M smartphones in 2011. For comparison purposes, Apple sold 2.1M.
In the Middle East and Africa, RIM sold 8.3M smartphones in 2011, versus only 2.5M for Apple.
Indonesia, the world's fourth most populous nation with 237M people, RIM is estimated to have 50% of the market share of smart phones, and approximately 7M Blackberry users.
In Canada, RIM's home market - much fanfare has occurred around Apple recently passing them for top spot in the smart phone market. Although this is true from a new sales perspective - RIM sold 2.08M smartphones in 2011 versus Apple's 2.85M smartphones - a recent Ipsos Reid survey showed Blackberry had 33% of the smartphone market penetration as of Jan. 2012 versus Apple's 28%, equivalent to just under 4M users. There are still more Blackberry users in Canada than Iphone users, they just didn't all buy those phones in 2011. The difference in any case is meaningless. The importance is that RIM is still a dominant player in this market. This is underscored by the fact that the survey also found that 40% of respondents intended to purchase a Blackberry over the next year - the highest of any manufacturer.
In India, RIM held only 15% market share in 2011, good enough for the third position but still significantly ahead of Apple. That market share is equivalent to about 1.7M in sales. The Blackberry brand is still in a favourable view in India. In a survey of the most aspirational brands for Indians, Blackberry came in second and tied with Apple (which includes Macs and all other Apple products). It was ahead of iconic brands like BMW and Mercedes, and behind only Samsung.
In the U.K., RIM claims to have 8.5M subscribers, and research from GFK shows that RIM had a 26% share of smartphones in December. RIM is thus still a dominant player in this market as well.
There too are numerous other markets where RIM is performing extremely well. But what is the significance of all this? Clearly RIM can't be too late in these markets for the launch of their consumer-friendly BB10 products. RIM has been lambasted endlessly for its failure to address the growing threat of Apple's IOS and phones using Android operating systems earlier than it has. To these analysts and media, RIM would be in much better shape in North America and its brand stronger had it addressed this and launched phones that would better compete against these two operating systems years ago. And to this point they are correct.

However, if ever there was such thing as a corporate mulligan, RIM is about to use it. The situation it is in in most of its other markets is similar to where it was in the U.S. years ago. In many markets, it is just as dominate today as it once was in the U.S., and the Blackberry brand just as strong. In many of the developing nations, their carrier networks are mostly 2G and in transition to 3G - reminiscent of years past in North America - before there was an iPhone or an Android operating system. In those markets, even with the availability of iPhone or Android phones today, the user experience on these phones is impacted by the speed of the networks they run on, and the high cost of data packages that allow a fraction of the downloads that North American packages offer. With the data compression of the proprietary RIM servers, you can do much more and do it faster with Blackberry than you can with most other phones, and that is a very different reality than what exists in North America. Doesn't mean this isn't going to change. But RIM is only months away from launching their own user-friendly touch-screen devices that will have the ever popular BBM, secure e-mail and data compression, on a brand that is still cool and widely loved in many markets around the world. This will give it the chance to see first-hand what could have been had it had these phones in North America several years ago. But this reality is virtually ignored when the "too little too late judgments" are being delivered. This is surprising, because if you really believed RIM could have done something to stem the tide in the U.S., wouldn't it make sense that it could do something to hold its ground in other markets (that represent the majority of their business) where they still have a successful brand? It isn't too late in those markets, and we'll need to wait and see if it is in fact too late in the U.S..

[omniusovermind]

Well let's look at all the other fine, refined, high quality products modern NA culture also brought the world -

McDonald's,
Walmart,
those sturdy, never-bail-me-out detroit automakers,
over-sized restaurant chairs (see #1)
stretchy pants + halter top fashion (see #'s 1+2)
"Real Housewives" reality TV shows
"Tots in tiaras" reality TV shows
Reality show hosts and kooky actors getting voted into office based on their fictional TV/Movie personas

Now... which of the two options below do you think iPhones need most to thrive in a market like that?

a) quality
b) trendy

I'm really really not shocked to see iPhones not doing as well in Europe or Asia as they do here. Honestly, you could sell dog turds well in this continent as long as it has the proper celebrity and media endorsed logo stamped on it.

PS: coincidentally, both of the first two options in the earlier list can now always be found within the same building. Or not coincidentally.

[brucep1]

Well let's look at all the other fine, refined, high quality products modern NA culture also brought the world -

McDonald's,
Walmart,
those sturdy, never-bail-me-out detroit automakers,
over-sized restaurant chairs (see #1)
stretchy pants + halter top fashion (see #'s 1+2)
"Real Housewives" reality TV shows
"Tots in tiaras" reality TV shows
Reality show hosts and kooky actors getting voted into office based on their fictional TV/Movie personas

Now... which of the two options below do you think iPhones need most to thrive in a market like that?

a) quality
b) trendy

I'm really really not shocked to see iPhones not doing as well in Europe or Asia as they do here. Honestly, you could sell dog turds well in this continent as long as it has the proper celebrity and media endorsed logo stamped on it.

PS: coincidentally, both of the first two options in the earlier list can now always be found within the same building. Or not coincidentally.

Modern NA also brought Windows Phone, iOS, Android, and Blackberry. I'm not sure what these companies have to do with smartphones, however.

[avt123]

Now... which of the two options below do you think iPhones need most to thrive in a market like that?

a) quality
b) trendy

You only need option b most of the time (pet rocks?), but the iPhone happens to be both options.

[LazyStarGazer]

My favorite part of Microsoft bailing out Apple?

Years later, on camera at an All Things D event, Steve Jobs saying that Microsoft
'had no taste'.

Translation: You still p*** me off.

[xandermac]

No words can describe the hypocrisy of this statement!

will you stop trolling almost every thread you post in, Mr Mcfly?

Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using CrackBerry Forums App/Tapatalk

Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk

[xandermac]

Of course people want to upgrade to the latest & greatest. That's the entire point of releasing an upgraded device, to sell the damn thing. Never go into business if you don't understand this.

Maybe RIM need a bailout to get back on track.

I completely disagree with you. Don't actually attempt to differentiate the 4 and the 4s. They are almost identical except for Siri.

No one I know who has a 3gs (comparable to a tour or 9650 in terms of age) has ios5 running smoothly. Yeah, Apple makes you upgrade but they know the user experience is going to suck, and they make it so that if you are on outdated apple software, your device gets limited and in some cases people have reported not being able to access appstore without the latest apple software.

Because of all this, Apple users want (and need) to upgrade to the latest and greatest hardware, especially when they have all the magical apple ads flashing in their faces. Apple makes it this way. Propaganda.
They want you to get the latest apple phone. They pretty much give you no choice but to upgrade and give you a crappy user experience or else your stuck with a limited outdated os. RIM supports the older OS's still whereas Apple doesn't. With an older RIM os, you can still do ALOT. and very easily.


This is why I completely disagree with you. Its because of the veil they put forth in regards to this that actually lead you to believe (apple leads people to believe things very well) that this circumstance is better. Its not. Apple wins, you lose. Apple always wins, brucep.

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[xandermac]

LOL. Spoken like someone with zero knowledge. Apple do force obsolescence (as all manufacturers do) but unlike RIM Apple make sure their devices are supported for at least two years & that those devices can run the newest OS. I'm sorry you don't like that I guess you're happy on your 9700, is it running OS6? I'll bet you get a LOT of browser crashes? I always did. But that's the point of upgrading isn't it. Well, to any normal person anyway.

. Who knows if ios 6 will be nice on your 4. Chances are you'll have to get the IP5

Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk

[BlackBerry Guy]

I think it shows you need to do whatever it takes to survive - past history and what others may think be damned.

It sounded like a lot of Apple fans back then hated the idea of having Microsoft bail them out, and how it looks turning to a rival to make a deal. But guess what, the fans don't run the company, and had Apple not partnered with Microsoft, they wouldn't be where they are today.

RIM doesn't need a bail out, but what we're seeing is them doing whatever it takes to survive - the CEO change, the management shakeup, the building of an entire new platform and ecosystem. You read CB and you do find the users that don't want touch screens, or are pissed off that their soon to be legacy devices won't support BB10, or are perfectly happy with the old Java based OS, or who are miffed as to why the first of the new breed of devices is going to sport a virtual keyboard. But breaking from the past, re-focusing, evolving, and learning to do things differently is exactly what RIM needs to do to survive, and at this point, they can't afford to care who they on the way to doing it.