View Poll Results: Will BB OS6 top iPhone OS4?

Voters
68. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    11 16.18%
  • No

    52 76.47%
  • Other

    5 7.35%
04-22-10 02:24 PM
59 123
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  1. Raneciansamaiya's Avatar
    I think what everyone is not seeing is the fact that these are two different OS with two different purpose! The BB is more business so, no it will never top the media factor of the IPhone's OS! Apple is more media! Its like night & day with the BB & IPhone! The BB is business, and IPhone is more personal! So my vote was no because they are both different! I like them both!
    Last edited by Raneciansamaiya; 04-18-10 at 07:59 PM. Reason: spell check
    04-18-10 07:58 PM
  2. killswitchX13's Avatar
    Didn't know all apps didn't run through BIS. When I disabled my data plan and tried using any of the apps I had, it said I needed a BlackBerry data plan (which runs on the BIS).

    Then again, I only had about 5 or 6 apps on my BB so I wouldn't know.
    04-18-10 08:04 PM
  3. sivan's Avatar
    She's saying its inefficient because bloated databases have to be parsed when queried, and this happens locally, on the device.
    She didn't say they were bloated. She only said that parsing and manipulating databases is inefficient.

    You are saying they need to be parsed when queried. What do you mean by "parsed"?
    04-18-10 08:11 PM
  4. travelingfool's Avatar
    Civic is saying the databases are on the BlackBerry, not on BIS. What data are you referring to?
    Sorry synthmole, when I started my reply, you hadn't posted that yet. After I posted, I saw yours. I had to put down the bb for a bit, hence the 10 minute difference.

    I hate posting redundant posts

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-18-10 08:12 PM
  5. killswitchX13's Avatar
    21-3

    If only RIM could buy Palm....
    04-18-10 08:15 PM
  6. Duvi's Avatar
    Didn't know all apps didn't run through BIS. When I disabled my data plan and tried using any of the apps I had, it said I needed a BlackBerry data plan (which runs on the BIS).

    Then again, I only had about 5 or 6 apps on my BB so I wouldn't know.
    BIS and carrier data. Most, if not all streaming apps run through the carrier. When you turn data off, you're also turning off the ability for certain apps from using data through the carrier.
    04-18-10 08:19 PM
  7. sivan's Avatar
    First, I'm no expert. I was just setting the record straight that civic was talking about parsing localized data, not cloud-based data.

    Second, bloated was my term, not hers. I simply meant that as a database grows, it becomes larger; hence bloated.

    My laymen's understanding of parsing is that something has to take the source code, tell it to query certain data, and display it in a wysiwyg fashion to the end user. That's probably very simplistic to an expert, but that's how I've always thought of it.

    When I jumped in there, I wasn't offering my expertise on parsing databases, of which I have none, lol. I was just showing that databases on the bb are local.


    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    NP, I'm just trying to keep track of who said what so the debate doesn't get derailed.

    So to recap, Civic said that the apps on the BlackBerry OS parse and manipulate databases, and that's why it's buggy and inefficient. My question is, given that databases are the primary way for apps to store and manipulate data on every OS out there, desktop or smartphone, why is it bad that the BlackBerry OS does this too?

    One thing that still remains unclear is the term "parsing". That's different than querying. Hopefully Civic can explain.
    04-18-10 08:40 PM
  8. travelingfool's Avatar

    One thing that still remains unclear is the term "parsing". That's different than querying. Hopefully Civic can explain.
    Well, I wasn't saying that parsing is the same thing as querying. I said that parsing is when the database is queried and told to display the requested data in a WYSIWYG fashion to the end user.

    Again, I'm probably all wet with this answer, but that's how I've understood it as a layman.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-18-10 08:46 PM
  9. MobileMadness002's Avatar
    As long as it is based on Java, then not a chance in ****.
    04-18-10 08:47 PM
  10. travelingfool's Avatar
    Civic...HELP!

    I'm in over my head!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-18-10 08:49 PM
  11. Cleveland's Avatar
    not always rim's fault. sometimes it's the carrier.
    I've got plenty of gripes with verizon... so don't get me started there lol it was a lose lose situation lol
    04-18-10 08:53 PM
  12. sivan's Avatar
    As long as it is based on Java, then not a chance in ****.
    Well, Android is also based on Java, and Windows Phone 7 will require C#, similar to Java. No chance?

    RIM's biggest problem is the SDK, not the OS.
    04-18-10 08:54 PM
  13. travelingfool's Avatar
    Well, Android is also based on Java, and Windows Phone 7 will require C#, similar to Java. No chance?

    RIM's biggest problem is the SDK, not the OS.
    Although Android is based on Java, it uses SQLite for its database management system. I wonder what RIM uses? Anyone know?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-18-10 09:01 PM
  14. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    It's not the nativity of database/app that is the problem. It is the coding that pulls that data out and presents it to the user. There are issues here. There are also parts of apps that poll different databases in order to present the user with a set of information... this coding sometimes pulls incorrect data. Also, the apps sometimes change the way the data is being saved into these databases, meaning that with some OS releases, the info within the database becomes formulated in a new way, so the restored data from a user doing a database restore after an OS update, actually can contribute to corrupt/problamatic databases. Of course, since we don't know when this happens, it's hard to sometimes pinpoint if these are the causes of the issues.

    A good example of the above is the threaded SMS redesign. The coding was (and is still) so buggy that sometimes you have threads that that get corrupt for certain users. The only way to clear this up is a complete wipe of the SMS database or just delete all your SMSs and start fresh.

    With some of the redesigns in OS5, for some reason RIM coders have also introduced additional databases which double up on something that was already there. Now there's a Phone Call Logs and Phone Call History database. What's the need for this redundancy? I have a feeling it has something to do with them wanting to filter out some things like VoiceMail calls and Unknown Caller calls (which no longer show up in the Call Log view in the Phone app, but they do show if you go to Messages/View Call Logs. Again, stupid move because some people want to see ALL these calls listed... now we can't even easily delete them from the Call Log view in the Phone app, we have to take multiple steps to get to Messages/Menu/View Folder/Phone Call Logs... dumb!

    Anyway, there's a lot of issues which some of you don't even realize... but this is starting to become a explaining/debating thread for issues which should be discussed in the appropriate threads for this... most of which I've written when the bugs were found (yes, they've been happeing for a while in multiple OS5 builds and some even in 4.7). Some of you (synthmole) should go and read some of those detailed threads so that we don't have to rediscuss these issues in threads like this and end up derailing the topic and hijacking the thread.

    No offense synth, I think you're just curious, but I wish I could show you all the issues without having to retype them all out. Check out the Storm section for a lot of bug reporting threads... keep in mind that a couple of months ago, I kinda gave up on the constant reporting (with details) of bugs and started on my RIM bashing spree. I felt it was a waste of my time since even once reported to RIM, the bugs would take several builds to fix and it seems we're not going to see further releases for the S1 that will resolve a lot of these. Let me put it this way... myself and a few others have found several bugs and procedures for duplication and reporting to RIM which both RIM testers and carrier testers HAVE MISSED... and they were the ones getting paid to do the job.

    When you put that time in to detail out bugs and how to duplicate them and then get people to report them to the proper people (which actually shoot it back as "we can't duplicate the issue" or "it doesn't exist") and then you reexplain it step by step like you would to a child and they actually try it per the writeup AGAIN, then notice the issue is real and tell you they'll fix it... and then you don't even see a freaking handout of a leaked OS containing the fix because RIM expects those same careless carrier employees (i.e. Verizon testers) to certify the builds before release... ya, you get bitter... and you start bashing their ways of doing things... from fixing issues, to developing, to updating, to building, etc.
    04-18-10 09:22 PM
  15. travelingfool's Avatar
    Wow. I'm in awe. AWE, I tell you. That was very informative response, civic. Thank you.

    However, now you have me questioning my fidelity to RIM, which I didn't think would happen.

    Android looks promising. Apple just isn't my style, and I don't mean the phone; I mean the whole package.

    What to do...

    Wait and watch, I guess.




    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by travelingfool; 04-18-10 at 11:33 PM. Reason: Cleaned up some unessesary vitriol
    04-18-10 09:37 PM
  16. mahen915's Avatar
    As long as it is based on Java, then not a chance in ****.
    What is all this negativity with Java?! Java is a programming language, that's it. It's high-level and VERY secure. Android uses it, so does Blackberry. That isn't the issue here. The issue here is the underlying kernel, which drives any OS. Android chose a Linux kernel. RIM chose a JVM, which is a Java Virtual Machine. If you're referring to the JVM, then yes, there is a hurdle there, because that's where a lot of low level issues come from. It's highly secure but it's not without issue.
    Last edited by Kill3r.Conc3ptz; 04-18-10 at 10:38 PM.
    04-18-10 10:34 PM
  17. MobileMadness002's Avatar
    I made a stupid comment not doing my research.

    /bow head in shame.
    04-18-10 10:43 PM
  18. sivan's Avatar
    Good post Civic. I can understand not wanting to rehash everything, but the constant bashing begs the question.

    What you are describing is a very common pattern of bugs in any product. I am not belittling problems, but we need to ask what is the standard to go by?

    Here is an example bug in Android that deletes all the user's SMS messages irretrievably. It was reported 5 months ago and is marked with priority medium:

    Issue 5669 - android - Droid deleting all Messaging/SMS conversation threads at random or triple sending - Project Hosting on Google Code

    When do you think it will be fixed? No developer has been assigned to it yet. Oh, and some commenters are threatening to go back to BB if this isn't fixed. The irony.

    I'm showing this just to illustrate that there are bugs everywhere and they don't always get fixed promptly, for a variety of reasons. Of course, RIM has a lot of legacy stuff to work with, that is a disadvantage. But what can someone realistically do, switch to Android and then deal with its own particular bugs?

    Anyway, I understand your frustration (I reinstalled the OS twice this weekend). But we need a better perspective that takes into account what the OS does for what we need. Bugs are just one aspect and moving to another OS entails other risks.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-18-10 10:43 PM
  19. sivan's Avatar
    What is all this negativity with Java?! Java is a programming language, that's it. It's high-level and VERY secure. Android uses it, so does Blackberry. That isn't the issue here. The issue here is the underlying kernel, which drives any OS. Android chose a Linux kernel. RIM chose a JVM, which is a Java Virtual Machine. If you're referring to the JVM, then yes, there is a hurdle there, because that's where a lot of low level issues come from. It's highly secure but it's not without issue.
    Both Android and BlackBerry apps run in a JVM. On Android, the JVM runs on top of a Linux kernel. On a BlackBerry, on top of a proprietary kernel developed by RIM.

    Linux is a fine kernel but it's not automatically better just by dint of being famously open source.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-18-10 11:00 PM
  20. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Both Android and BlackBerry apps run in a JVM. On Android, the JVM runs on top of a Linux kernel. On a BlackBerry, on top of a proprietary kernel developed by RIM.

    Linux is a fine kernel but it's not automatically better just by dint of being famously open source.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Then explain to us why memory management is more stable on Android then it is on Blackberry.

    As for your bug listing above with Android, I'm not on Android for other reasons, so I'm not working on hammering Google to fix that. The last big Google bashing I did was to get them to rewrite the GPS polling code in GMM for BB so it would work right on the Storm. We actually had a dev team leader in their forum say we were wrong. Then we got our own community person to publish the correct code to do the polling and Google went silent for a couple of days. Then all of a sudden a new release came out that worked great. Google Devs - 0, Snarky Forum Brains - 1. Lol!

    As an example of a bug I found on the iPhone 2.0 OS when it came out was that if you tied it into ActiveSync corporate email and the email address and userid didn't match the same case as it was entered in Active Directory on the Exchange server, when the calendar sync would happen, all the appointment were listed as invites and you couldn't modify them on the device. Seriously dumb mistake. Email addresses are not case sensitive Apple. Lol. But hey, it was fixed pretty quick, like 2 weeks or less I think. There was also a WIFI code problem with reattaching an iPod Touch to a hidden SSID network under 2.0. That wasn't fixed until 3.0 however... sucked big time dealing with it.

    Bottom line, nothing's perfect it seems, but RIM's OS is currently the leader in the race for the big can of RAID. Lol

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-18-10 11:45 PM
  21. sivan's Avatar
    Then explain to us why memory management is more stable on Android then it is on Blackberry.
    Is it? My G1 does alright with the little memory it has but apps sometimes quit or become non-responsive.

    Apps in the JVM enjoy automatic garbage collection (memory reclamation), that is a definite advantage and a reason for using Java in a mobile device. But it's not fool proof. Database connections and threads can be left dangling even after apps exit due to programmer mistakes. Sometimes the API is not strict enough, sometimes the API implementation is just buggy.

    I don't know. I haven't seen memory issues myself.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-19-10 12:01 AM
  22. flyawaymike's Avatar
    As long as it is based on Java, then not a chance in ****.
    yep, that's always been it's achilles' heel. (well that a few other are issues, but it's definitely in the top 5)
    04-19-10 01:19 AM
  23. flyawaymike's Avatar
    Android chose a Linux kernel. RIM chose a JVM, which is a Java Virtual Machine. If you're referring to the JVM, then yes, there is a hurdle there, because that's where a lot of low level issues come from. It's highly secure but it's not without issue.
    yep, that's the problem, they went with a JVM.. sluggish implementation and bloated inefficient code = fail.

    they seriously need to scrap it all, and start over, fresh from the ground up.
    04-19-10 01:25 AM
  24. berryaddictnoza's Avatar
    Anyway, I understand your frustration (I reinstalled the OS twice this weekend).
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Ah, man I hate hearing synthmole of all people, saying stuff like this, as I'm planning on getting the Bold 9650 when released. Hopefully, you were beta testing something or running a leaked OS. I don't want to re-live my Windows Vista experence (ahhh, hammers ARE useful )
    04-19-10 04:50 AM
  25. tedzone's Avatar
    Do you think BlackBerry OS6 will top iPhone's OS4?

    YES!!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-19-10 06:11 AM
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