1. anon(1464249)'s Avatar
    I'd rather see Apple Pay succeed than CurrentC. Even if you hate Apple, it's the lesser of two 'evils'.
    I'd rather see BlackBerry create something similar. Apple Pay is merely an NFC tool. BlackBerry can create the exact same system and it will be accepted by every NFC terminal like Apple Pay.
    The only thing that needs to be done is get the banks onboard but considering they love it when people spend money I don't think this would be a hard feat... Give Apple some competition or try and get in on the MCX and advise on the matter at hand. Scanning QR codes is a hassle and quite frankly ridiculous. They were popular like what, 1 year?

    Just give me a system, that allows me input my debit card and connect to my bank (like online paying) that gives me the option to pay by tapping my phone, quick easy and secure.
    10-28-14 09:59 AM
  2. xandermac's Avatar
    So if stores only accept apple pay it leaves everyone out that doesn't own apple products. Wow, what happened to standardization? Pretty soon we are going to have Toyota only gas pumps.
    That's actually irrelevant. Apple Pay uses the same NFC terminals as other payment systems. It's not a matter of "Just accepting Apple Pay". Look at it this way, if a retailer accepts NFC payments they CAN ALSO accept Apple Pay. It's just another NFC payment system, it just happens to be Apple's.

    Forget the term "Apple Pay" and substitute "NFC" instead.

    The confusion has happened because of the way the media is reporting this. "Retailers disable Apple Pay" should have read "Retailers disable ALL NFC payment systems".
    kbz1960 likes this.
    10-28-14 10:02 AM
  3. xandermac's Avatar
    Unless CurrentC partners disable NFC as they are doing. Like I said, this move doesn't only affect Apple.

    BlackBerry can create the exact same system and it will be accepted by every NFC terminal like Apple Pay.
    10-28-14 10:03 AM
  4. Ment's Avatar
    So if stores only accept apple pay it leaves everyone out that doesn't own apple products. Wow, what happened to standardization? Pretty soon we are going to have Toyota only gas pumps.
    Well you could use Google Wallet and Softcard(Isis) at the locations that accepted NFC based payments but CVS/Rite-Aid turned NFC off altogether to block Apple Pay.
    10-28-14 10:08 AM
  5. Ragbert's Avatar
    It wasn't functioning fine or even *at all* everywhere. My local cvs stores installed new hardware a year ago which is supposed to be NFC-capable, but nobody, including store managers, has been able to tell me how it works. Nobody knew how to set up an NFC account there so I can tap my NFC-enabled phone to pay, etc. I asked at multiple stores and nobody had a clue.

    This was all before the release of the iPhone 6 so perhaps retailers are finally scrambling to learn how their own machines work now. *sigh*

    So these two stores have disabled NFC, which was functioning just fine for everyone up till now, in favor of a system that doesn't even exist yet as a working product.


    Posted with my Q10, SQN100-2, 10.2.1.3253/3182 Radio
    10-28-14 10:09 AM
  6. xandermac's Avatar
    Well you could use Google Wallet and Softcard(Isis) at the locations that accepted NFC based payments but CVS/Rite-Aid turned NFC off altogether to block Apple Pay.
    No, they turned off NFC to block competing mobile payment systems per their MCX/CurrentC partner agreement. It just so happened that it was Apple Pay that brought the issue to the forefront.

    Had Google Wallet NFC (or a blackberry NFC payment system) been as popular the same would have happened as the MCX partner agreement forbids accepting those also. Other systems, however, failed to gain any traction. The market was waiting for Apple to get into the game and theirs was an instant success which terrified MCX.
    10-28-14 10:10 AM
  7. xandermac's Avatar
    It wasn't functioning fine or even *at all* everywhere. My local cvs stores installed new hardware a year ago which is supposed to be NFC-capable, but nobody, including store managers, has been able to tell me how it works. Nobody knew how to set up an NFC account there so I can tap my NFC-enabled phone to pay, etc. I asked at multiple stores and nobody had a clue.

    This was all before the release of the iPhone 6 so perhaps retailers are finally scrambling to learn how their own machines work now. *sigh*





    Posted with my Q10, SQN100-2, 10.2.1.3253/3182 Radio
    Its not up to the retailer to set up your NFC account. Its up to the consumer to set up their own preferred NFC payment system on their device, then it would have worked at CVS terminals. Not sure what options there are for BB users other than individual bank NFC payment apps.
    10-28-14 10:16 AM
  8. zocster's Avatar
    Moved to Apple section of the forums
    10-28-14 10:22 AM
  9. app_Developer's Avatar
    So if stores only accept apple pay it leaves everyone out that doesn't own apple products. Wow, what happened to standardization? Pretty soon we are going to have Toyota only gas pumps.
    It's not possible for a store to accept only Apple Pay. They either accept all approved NFC payment methods from MC/Visa/Amex or none.


    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
    kbz1960 likes this.
    10-28-14 10:39 AM
  10. tangozulu's Avatar
    Starbucks is accepting this now too. I received an email regarding it.
    I suspect Apples and Starbucks are cut from the same cloth. Doubt many berry's in their shops. $4 dollar coffee same as 800 dollar phones.
    10-28-14 10:48 AM
  11. Ment's Avatar
    No, they turned off NFC to block competing mobile payment systems per their MCX/CurrentC partner agreement. It just so happened that it was Apple Pay that brought the issue to the forefront.

    Had Google Wallet NFC (or a blackberry NFC payment system) been as popular the same would have happened as the MCX partner agreement forbids accepting those also. Other systems, however, failed to gain any traction. The market was waiting for Apple to get into the game and theirs was an instant success which terrified MCX.
    Of course if was to block ApplePay. Google Wallet existed for many months at MCX partner stores and MCX did nothing about it cause it had no marketshare due to device fragmentation and lack of partner cohesion. Same with Sofcard and the other NFC payment systems available on Android. Along comes the 800 pound gorilla and MCX thru its partners enforces its exclusivity provisions.
    southlander likes this.
    10-28-14 11:06 AM
  12. xandermac's Avatar
    Of course if was to block ApplePay. Google Wallet existed for many months at MCX partner stores and MCX did nothing about it cause it had no marketshare due to device fragmentation and lack of partner cohesion. Same with Sofcard and the other NFC payment systems available on Android. Along comes the 800 pound gorilla and MCX thru its partners enforces its exclusivity provisions.
    You just said exactly what I said... Thanks...

    However, I'll go by the terms of MCX's partner agreement and the actual facts, myself... I wish it were just a direct attack on Apple Pay because the CurrentC app would have surely been banned from the App Store if that were the case, however, their partner agreement states "any competing mobile payment solution" of which Apple Pay just happens to be the most popular after 1 week!.

    Expect the NFC terminals to be back on within a month.
    10-28-14 11:08 AM
  13. Ment's Avatar
    You just said exactly what I said... Thanks...
    So you agree with me that it they blocked it because of ApplePay. The others were collateral damage. Thanks.
    10-28-14 11:14 AM
  14. xandermac's Avatar
    So you agree with me that it they blocked it because of ApplePay. The others were collateral damage. Thanks.
    Yes, that's exactly it. You've hit the nail on the head without fact or reason. Good job.

    Here is what you're missing, had it been to block only Apple Pay it would have been disabled in advance of Apple Pays launch. When MCX realized that their partners were accepting a competing payment solution, which they only caught wind of because of Apple Pay, they ordered those partners to turn off NFC. Everyone, including Apple, was the "collateral damage". Enforcing the "partner agreement" was the purpose and the sole reason MCX had the power to do it. Had the agreement not existed MCX wouldn't have had the power to tell individual retailers to "disable Apple Pay" let alone turn off all NFC terminals. The agreement doesn't say "You can't accept Apple Pay"...

    Blocking competition, all competition, of which Apple is obviously the biggest, was the reason. Trust me, it won't last for long and if the affected parties can't work it out the banking regulators will and I know who they will side with....

    I will grant you that Apple pay brought the issue to the forefront. That's because Apple is good at what it does.
    Last edited by xandermac; 10-28-14 at 11:30 AM.
    10-28-14 11:17 AM
  15. early2bed's Avatar
    Expect the NFC terminals to be back on within a month.
    Or sooner than that. Right now, CurrentC is being introduced to consumers as anti-privacy, clunky, and anti-consumer and the are months away from launching their system. It's an absolute PR disaster for MCX. If they don't allow their members to open up the NFC terminals again then CurrentC will be DOA before it arrives. Apple isn't even complaining about the retailers - they are letting the media skewer them and enjoying the free press for Apple Pay.
    xandermac likes this.
    10-28-14 11:23 AM
  16. xandermac's Avatar
    Or sooner than that. Right now, CurrentC is being introduced to consumers as anti-privacy, clunky, and anti-consumer and the are months away from launching their system. It's an absolute PR disaster for MCX. If they don't allow their members to open up the NFC terminals again then CurrentC will be DOA before it arrives. Apple isn't even complaining about the retailers - they are letting the media skewer them and enjoying the free press for Apple Pay.
    MCX are history. Watch their partners start to walk away in droves before their grace period expires.


    Twitter: xandermac
    10-28-14 11:32 AM
  17. early2bed's Avatar
    MCX are history. Watch their partners start to walk away in droves before their grace period expires.
    My guess is that the retailer-owned mobile payment system that bypasses the credit/debit cards will eventually be an option. They can do all sorts of loyalty programs and coupons to incentivize consumers. There are plenty of consumers that will exchange their personal information for discounts, free merchandise, etc.

    One benefit may be that the competition may eventually drive down credit card transaction charges. I may not even mind maintaining various payment options if I can keep them all in one place on my smartphone and track the charges with the Mint or Personal Capital app.
    10-28-14 11:58 AM
  18. TBone4eva's Avatar
    Or sooner than that. Right now, CurrentC is being introduced to consumers as anti-privacy, clunky, and anti-consumer and the are months away from launching their system. It's an absolute PR disaster for MCX. If they don't allow their members to open up the NFC terminals again then CurrentC will be DOA before it arrives. Apple isn't even complaining about the retailers - they are letting the media skewer them and enjoying the free press for Apple Pay.
    I also believe that retailers will eventually have to accept Apple Pay, but I'm not sure it will be so soon. Retailers REALLY hate paying transaction fees to the banks. This is pretty much their only chance at a competing payment system that they control. They have also put a lot of time and money into CurrentC. I think they will hold out until they have had at least a chance to roll out and promote CurrentC early next year.
    10-28-14 11:59 AM
  19. insandouts's Avatar
    I'd rather see BlackBerry create something similar. Apple Pay is merely an NFC tool. BlackBerry can create the exact same system and it will be accepted by every NFC terminal like Apple Pay.
    The only thing that needs to be done is get the banks onboard but considering they love it when people spend money I don't think this would be a hard feat... Give Apple some competition or try and get in on the MCX and advise on the matter at hand. Scanning QR codes is a hassle and quite frankly ridiculous. They were popular like what, 1 year?

    Just give me a system, that allows me input my debit card and connect to my bank (like online paying) that gives me the option to pay by tapping my phone, quick easy and secure.
    Let's waste money to create a system for a platform that no one use..really smart! if you have missed it, Blackberry market share is less than 1%
    10-28-14 11:59 AM
  20. xandermac's Avatar
    I also believe that retailers will eventually have to accept Apple Pay, but I'm not sure it will be so soon. Retailers REALLY hate paying transaction fees to the banks. This is pretty much their only chance at a competing payment system that they control. They have also put a lot of time and money into CurrentC. I think they will hold out until they have had at least a chance to roll out and promote CurrentC early next year.
    They'll have a lot of barriers to overcome considering the lack of security

    In-depth look at CurrentC and the personal data they want to collect | iMore
    10-28-14 12:00 PM
  21. insandouts's Avatar
    They'll have a lot of barriers to overcome considering the lack of security

    In-depth look at CurrentC and the personal data they want to collect | iMore
    I read an article that says it was Walmart that practically force CVS/Rite aid to turn NFC off. They are the biggest MCX partner with lots of power but the smaller partners will eventually cave in.
    10-28-14 12:10 PM
  22. TBone4eva's Avatar
    Yes, that's exactly it. You've hit the nail on the head without fact or reason. Good job.

    Here is what you're missing, had it been to block only Apple Pay it would have been disabled in advance of Apple Pays launch. When MCX realized that their partners were accepting a competing payment solution, which they only caught wind of because of Apple Pay, they ordered those partners to turn off NFC. Everyone, including Apple, was the "collateral damage". Enforcing the "partner agreement" was the purpose and the sole reason MCX had the power to do it. Had the agreement not existed MCX wouldn't have had the power to tell individual retailers to "disable Apple Pay" let alone turn off all NFC terminals. The agreement doesn't say "You can't accept Apple Pay"...

    Blocking competition, all competition, of which Apple is obviously the biggest, was the reason. Trust me, it won't last for long and if the affected parties can't work it out the banking regulators will and I know who they will side with....

    I will grant you that Apple pay brought the issue to the forefront. That's because Apple is good at what it does.
    I don't think banking regulators will get involved anytime soon. We're talking about making payments using a phone. Apple Pay is just another method to use your credit cards. If Apple Pay doesn't work, you can still use your credit card at the very same retailers. So, the consumer is not really harmed. I would much rather the free market figure it out just like it did with Betamax vs VHS and Blu-ray vs HD-DVD than have governments pick a winner.
    10-28-14 12:11 PM
  23. early2bed's Avatar
    Another possibility is that retailers will split into: 1) high-margin/high-convenience models that support Apple Pay; and 2) low-margin/less convenience models that offer only retailer-driven mobile payments.

    Most retailers would be loathe to be pigeon-holed into the low-margin segment but if they are already turning down Apple Pay because they don't want to continue to pay credit card fees then they are signaling that customer service isn't their main priority. There's nothing wrong with that - I do most of my shopping at Costco which doesn't accept any major credit cards. However, if I'm going to buy coffee, lunch, or toothpaste, I'm going to value the convenience of Apple Pay.
    10-28-14 12:24 PM
  24. Ragbert's Avatar
    The retailer didn't even know that much. I don't keep banking info in my phone and wouldn't know the first thing about how to go about it. I don't use PayPal either, and I pay for apps via carrier billing. So this is all very new to me, and I had no idea who to ask. But I did think the retailers should know enough about their system to guide me in the right direction. Untrue, sad to say.

    Its not up to the retailer to set up your NFC account. Its up to the consumer to set up their own preferred NFC payment system on their device, then it would have worked at CVS terminals. Not sure what options there are for BB users other than individual bank NFC payment apps.
    Posted with my Q10, SQN100-2, 10.2.1.3253/3182 Radio
    10-28-14 01:21 PM
  25. undone's Avatar
    NFC and all payment schemes come down to the same thing. Money and who is getting paid/losing. Customers have a little bit of leverage, but in the end it will be the retailers that ultimately choose.
    10-28-14 01:24 PM
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