[LuvULongTime]

Actually the banks are very much on Apple's side on this one. CurrentC, which is what CVS etc are pushing, is terrible for banks.

Also terrible for any customers who wants to use her credit card or anyone who doesn't want to give Best Buy access to his bank account information.


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

No disagreement. But I doubt any of these companies would ever stop accepting the current traditional forms of payment. So no one will be forced onto CurrentC (hopefully!).

[MmmHmm]

The basic problem with Apple pay is the way it has been structured. Apple being Apple cozied up to the banks and of course the credit card companies to build a system where everyone gets a fee. Three layers of fees and the costs go directly to the retailer. We are know talking about 3.5-4.0 percent per transaction. This is basically legalized robbery.

The retailers absolutely hate and let me repeat hate this relationship. The fees are utterly inappropriate and are way out of control. Interestingly enough, the rival system will be independent of the credit card companies and the fees banks charge for credit cards use. It will be more like a debit card system directly linked to your bank account. So, it is cheaper for the retailer. In addition, this rival group will provide analytics on consumer habits for free. Apple provides squat (no surprise there).
This is just the first volley in a much bigger and longer battle. Closed systems like Apple have significant cost inefficiencies built into them and are really not very competitive. However, the companies backing it have money and power. It will be interesting to watch. Sort of a David and Gollaith scenario.

Posted via CB10

Where are you getting this information? It is my understanding that Apple's fee is 0.15% for Apple Pay purchases, and that fee is paid by the banks, not the merchant and not the consumer. Merchants will pay the same fee they have already been paying for credit card transactions.

http://time.com/3532199/apple-pay-winners-losers/

[Denise in Los Angeles]

The smart thing seems to me to not use these technologies, and pay with my credit card the way I normally do.

[DenverRalphy]

No disagreement. But I doubt any of these companies would ever stop accepting the current traditional forms of payment. So no one will be forced onto CurrentC (hopefully!).

Except that the current traditional form is being phased out in favor of more secure methods. CurrentC is just a bid to control a market, which will ultimately accomplish nothing more than delay progress in the US. Progress in an area of which the US is already sorely lagging.

CurrentC is using Exclusivity tactics to manipulate the market. CVS/Rite-Aid are locked into an exclusive agreement. Without the exclusivity, they could offer both CurrentC and NFC payments together.

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[early2bed]

The smart thing seems to me to not use these technologies, and pay with my credit card the way I normally do.

Nothing wrong with that. However, I was hoping to eventually move to a more secure method where I'm not handing my credit card to people all day or using the actual credit card number online. Once a year or so my card gets compromised and I end up having to dispute some charges and change my numbers.

I will be getting a new Amazon Rewards card that I plan to exclusively use with Apple Pay as much as possible and not even carry it around nor enter the number in online. I'm sure it will be years before I stop using physical credit cards.

[cbvinh]

Where are you getting this information? It is my understanding that Apple's fee is 0.15% for Apple Pay purchases, and that fee is paid by the banks, not the merchant and not the consumer. Merchants will pay the same fee they have already been paying for credit card transactions.

Apple Pay: Who Won and Who Lost?

I think what will actually happen is that the consumer will have the extra 0.15% passed onto them by the banks, just like how prices rose after credit card fees were built into consumer prices when merchants weren't allowed to have separate cash only prices, dictated by credit card companies. There's no way the banks will let their profits drop, even by 0.15% of billions. Their current hope is that the extra volume of new credit card purchases will increase their revenue, which will be true, but at some point, the volume will stabilize and that's when the fee will be passed on...

[MmmHmm]

I think what will actually happen is that the consumer will have the extra 0.15% passed onto them by the banks, just like how prices rose after credit card fees were built into consumer prices when merchants weren't allowed to have separate cash only prices, dictated by credit card companies. There's no way the banks will let their profits drop, even by 0.15% of billions. Their current hope is that the extra volume of new credit card purchases will increase their revenue, which will be true, but at some point, the volume will stabilize and that's when the fee will be passed on...

That's possible. There is no such thing as a free lunch. However, the fee isn't nearly as big as has been stated around here. Also, I think the consumer will benefit from Apple Pay, so a very small extra fee in the chain isn't completely unjustified. At least in the US, it is much more secure than typical credit card transactions, it keeps your CC number and transaction history out of the merchants' computers, makes it convenient to pay at the point of sale, and still gives all the fraud protection and other consumer protections that go along with credit cards.

In my opinion, you'd have to be crazy to voluntarily allow a merchant to direct withdraw from your checking account. This competing system to Apple Pay is a non-starter on that basis alone. If there is a fraudulent charge on my CC (whether or not through Apple Pay) there is a well established system in place, which is highly protective of the consumer. I can report the fraudulent charge, state that the charge is not mine, and boom, it's taken off my bill. However, if a hacker compromises the merchants' servers (not unheard of) and drains my bank account, what's my recourse? If there is adequate recourse at all, my guess is it will be a long road to resolve, all without your rent money available that month. No thanks.

[early2bed]

Not being able to get beyond the 0.15% that Apple charges for Apple Pay = functional fixation. As long as Apple is making money from something some people will never consider it a good thing.

[THBW]

People who want Apple Pay to fail and by extension NFC payments (Google Wallet is also now blocked by Rite-Aid and CVS) need to read the Techcrunch article and how stupid CurrentC is. CurrentC was developed for the benefit of the merchant not the consumer.

1) your bank acct is directly tied to the CurrentC payment platform
2) there are no fraud protections. If your rent payment goes down the tubes cause someone used your CurrentC acct then they, CurrentC aren't obligated to do anything.
3) The payment process is a clunky multi-step system using QR codes. This is 2014...really?
4) It extracts and holds more user info than needed for a simple financial transactions, including potential health info.
Attachment 309793

Until they change things drastically why would anyone want to use this.

Your comment is fair enough but there is no indication the CurrentC is going to roll out this particular platform. The Techcrunch article is a bit dated to be honest, as CurrentC has already moving away from this approach. Oddly enough, CurrentC was focused on QR codes mainly because of the iPhones lack of NFC capabilities.

[THBW]

Where are you getting this information? It is my understanding that Apple's fee is 0.15% for Apple Pay purchases, and that fee is paid by the banks, not the merchant and not the consumer. Merchants will pay the same fee they have already been paying for credit card transactions.

Apple Pay: Who Won and Who Lost?

Ok, now add in the other fees, structural costs and you can draw the rest of the picture, yourself. In most countries around the world, the banking system has set up a parallel debit card system that works at a fraction of the cost of proposed NFC systems using credit card companies. I'm not saying it isn't convenient just that it is expensive. When fee payments exceed profit margins, retailers get angry.

[early2bed]

It looks like some banks are willing front you Apple's cut for your first ~$13K of purchases before they raise their fees to get their $20 back.



If the big banks are going to start throwing money at consumers like this in an effort to reduce credit card fraud then this should get interesting.

[THBW]

It looks like some banks are willing front you Apple's cut for your first $10K or more of purchases.

And do you understand why the banks are doing this? Give with one hand and take, take, take with the other. Hidden fees my friend, the American banks excel at it.

[TGR1]

The smart thing seems to me to not use these technologies, and pay with my credit card the way I normally do.

Except the mag stripe cc prevalent in the US is very vulnerable security wise.

[TGR1]

Except that the current traditional form is being phased out in favor of more secure methods. CurrentC is just a bid to control a market, which will ultimately accomplish nothing more than delay progress in the US. Progress in an area of which the US is already sorely lagging.

CurrentC is using Exclusivity tactics to manipulate the market. CVS/Rite-Aid are locked into an exclusive agreement. Without the exclusivity, they could offer both CurrentC and NFC payments together.

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I know Walmart is a big driver/founder of the MCX. Are they the ones essentially calling the shots?

[DenverRalphy]

I know Walmart is a big driver/founder of the MCX. Are they the ones essentially calling the shots?

Oh gawd hell no. Walmart was popular when Sam held the reigns. Now that he's gone, popular opinion is that his children are idiots. While Walmart has a huge presence, their reputation is forever soured.

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[Bla1ze]

I'd rather see Apple Pay succeed than CurrentC. Even if you hate Apple, it's the lesser of two 'evils'.

[tchocky77]

I'd rather see Apple Pay succeed than CurrentC. Even if you hate Apple, it's the lesser of two 'evils'.

I think any tech enthusiast, if they're honest, has to admit that.

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[sentimentGX4]

The reason I'm harping on fees centers on the fact that retailing margins are very very thin. A 4% fee is massive and cuts sizably into profit. This sector is not gushing in profits.

Where does this 4% fee figure come from?

I read retailers pay at most 3% and that is if they have very bad credit. A large retail chain like Walmart pays ~1.75%. Apple is paid a flat fee of $0.005 per transaction under Apple Pay.

Fees for retailers do not increase nor decrease; but retailers are responsible for covering the cost of NFC readers. The retailers are mandated by the credit card companies to install NFC readers in all stores by some deadline in 2015 regardless of the existence of Apple Pay.

[early2bed]

This is a result of the exclusivity contract that the retailers signed on to. However, dragging CurrentC through the mud months before it is launched isn't going to help those retailers or CurrentC.

They don't have to shut out Apple Pay or any other payment system. They can still use loyalty programs to get people to sign up so long as their perception isn't trashed before people have a chance to sign up.

I'm predicting that the Apple-Pay-enabled NFC units will be turned back on soon.

[melb_me]

Welcome to Canada. We have debit cards. Transaction fee 6 to 8 CENTS per transaction. The debit card has a chip and will soon be NFC. Use your debit card or it is YOU paying that 3% "Transaction Robbery Fee" directly to the Banks in higher retail and restaurant prices.

[Ment]

Your comment is fair enough but there is no indication the CurrentC is going to roll out this particular platform. The Techcrunch article is a bit dated to be honest, as CurrentC has already moving away from this approach. Oddly enough, CurrentC was focused on QR codes mainly because of the iPhones lack of NFC capabilities.

CurrentC is not going to use QR codes? I'd like to see your source of this info.

[Prem WatsApp]

Nothing surprising here.....

However, I wouldn't be too dismissive of Apple as they are masters of manipulation for thier own gain. I'm sure they have thought this through and have contingencies in place to "force" the retailers to conform. Remember Apple has very deep pockets and they can simply buy them off or even buy a bank to create a monopoly thery're so good at setting up. I'm sure they have a plan to provide financial incentives to retailers to put the market to sleep in the short term and then exploit once all the competitive players are all gone. Classic industrialist tycoon behavor.

I can just see it.....The Apple Bank of America !

iBanking for everyone... !!

iAccount Plus?
iAccount Gold?

--------

Not here to dump on Apple, I'm for the most secure and private solution that makes it to the market.

However, experience tells that will likely be the least favored one...


? ? ? Passposted via CB Chen ? ? ?

[DenverRalphy]

CurrentC is not going to use QR codes? I'd like to see your source of this info.

Not from CurrentC themselves... http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/25/currentc/ but this article shows a hands on with the CurrentC app. Granted, the app is out, but the service is still in beta. The hands on shows them still planning to use QR codes. Dunno where he claims that they're no longer going that route.

The currentc.com site itself doesn't show much.

[DenverRalphy]

Your comment is fair enough but there is no indication the CurrentC is going to roll out this particular platform.

Other than their currently deployed app for testing?

The Techcrunch article is a bit dated to be honest, as CurrentC has already moving away from this approach. Oddly enough, CurrentC was focused on QR codes mainly because of the iPhones lack of NFC capabilities.

If by dated, you mean 2 days ago... then sure.

[Variante Alta]

I heard a rumour today that the Chinese government has developed a system used to pay for items at retail outlets to rival Apple's new Pay system - they're calling it 'cash'...an Apple spokesman refused to comment officially, but was heard to suggest most 'regular folks' wouldn't want to bother to learn how to use such a complicated method of payment...

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