[dandbj13]

http://rss.macworld.com/click.phdo?i...a3fc72d550c815

Now that RIM is retrenching around the enterprise, it is time for them to get out of the tablet business. There is just nowhere for the PB to go. It fails in the consumer space, and it fails worse in the corporate space.

Worse, yet, customer satisfaction for the iPad is higher than ever. The newest survey shows satisfaction for the new iPad at 98%. It is not a fad. It is not something that people just try because they were caught up in the hype, then later, regret.

I sincerely hope RIM kills the PB 2 before it sinks them completely. They need all hand on BB10 phones. Developers are not going to get on board without phones. Corporate is not just leaving BB; they are adopting iPads. What are they seeing at RIM HQ that the rest of us don't? What will it take for RIM to abandon this hobby?

[avt123]

Obvious. There is no competition.

[pilsbury]

Schools too. PlayBook is dead.

[LMG1963]

Just a side note...it's a good thing companies like hyundai didn't take advice from pessimistic people...it's only a few years ago they were told to abandons building vehicles..and today they are building the Canadian and north American. Card of the year and with some of the highest sales.......my point being..everything takes time...ya know...Rome wasn't built in a day......apple too started of as a seed...and barely weathered the storm..but look at them today..we always talk about media rim bashing..but in essence there is quite a lot of it that goes on here too. So how about just trying to be optimistic...when shares go down it affects more than just big business..individuals too are affected.....then again,,as the saying goes.."they're. Are some who take great pride in others grief".

[pinkert11]

Odd that I have been rolling out Playbooks for Region Sales Managers, internal staff and various other work stations such as our shipping and receiving docks. No way would we use ipads. The server back-end and controls simply are not there.

I have also been in communication with peers at RBC and Scotia Bank as well as others who are installing Fusion servers and testing playbook roll-outs. To simply state that the ipad rules the work place is very short sited. Now the playbook may or may not be adopted but it is generating interest for those who value control and security.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Tapatalk

[dandbj13]

Just a side note...it's a good thing companies like hyundai didn't take advice from pessimistic people...it's only a few years ago they were told to abandons building vehicles..and today they are building the Canadian and north American. Card of the year and with some of the highest sales.......

RIM is not a start-up with fresh ideas. They are not on the way up; their on the way down and out. It is somewhat disingenuous to pretend that RIM is like a new company entering the space and getting exposure for the first time.

RIM is the incumbent. We know exactly who and what they are. This is not about giving the new guy a chance to succeed. This is about the incumbent being rejected by its most loyal customer base. There is no comparison with Hyundai.

Odd that I have been rolling out Playbooks for Region Sales Managers, internal staff and various other work stations such as our shipping and receiving docks...

There will always be outliers. Understand that 10 to 1 figure is not ten iPads to 1 PB. That's 10 iPads to 1 everything else. The PB will never be a mass consumer hit. RIM as much as said so. They think that can focus on enterprise. Well, as far as tablets go, there is even less room there. The PB has nowhere to get a foothold. It is costing RIM money and time.

It is as silly as RIM deciding to build notebook computers to compete with the MBA, OS and all. Why? They don't have the time or money for that kind of side project. I'm sure if they did it, the would be a few thousand diehard fans who swore by it. But that is not what you build a business on. If RIM can't see that with the PB, their already dead. They need to get out of the tablet business, NOW!

[pinkert11]

dandbj13, you are out to lunch, first of Hyundai is not a fresh start up company it has been in business since 1915 and Hyundai Motor company has been part of that business since 1939 as Hyundai Auto Service. Lets set the record straight that you are talking out of the side of your head.

Second, lets look at other tablets in the last year, non of them have sold close to a million units like rim has, even combined rim is still selling almost as many tablets as Android.

Third lets look at the adoption rates new products always have low adoption rates. And yes it is true that the ipad had a very high adoption rate but it was basically the same as the iphone, but bigger so people had a very good idea of what the product was and what it could do. In the case of the playbook it is 100% new - new platform and new hardware. It is not a big brother to a Blackberry phone as it is the first item with a new OS. Therefore adoption rate will be slower more traditional and it could take two to three years for traction. A million units sold in a year to not make a product a failure, in comparison to the ipad it is moving slow but in the market place it is really on the way to the number two spot.

Finally not all of us want or care for apple products. Not all of us want our life controlled and use of a product so handed to us we do not get to say how we use it, or what media, files or items we want on it. To further this not all business want to bent to the inflexibility of Apple in order to try to make their products try to work in a existing environment. Some want a product that enables managers and system managers to lock down the purchasing of apps, or roll out company approved apps. Some want to be able to use network shares and access to network shares out of the box and not jump through hoops to get there. Some want to be able to run their company SharePoint sites, libraries and infrastructures as well as work-flows right out of the box in a native browser and not have to use some crappy third party 'app'. You seem to have drank a bit too much of the cool-aid.

[dandbj13]

dandbj13, you are out to lunch, first of Hyundai is not a fresh start up company it has been in business since 1915 and Hyundai Motor company has been part of that business since 1939 as Hyundai Auto Service. Lets set the record straight that you are talking out of the side of your head.

Second, lets look at other tablets in the last year, non of them have sold close to a million units like rim has, even combined rim is still selling almost as many tablets as Android.

Third lets look at the adoption rates new products always have low adoption rates. And yes it is true that the ipad had a very high adoption rate but it was basically the same as the iphone, but bigger so people had a very good idea of what the product was and what it could do. In the case of the playbook it is 100% new - new platform and new hardware. It is not a big brother to a Blackberry phone as it is the first item with a new OS. Therefore adoption rate will be slower more traditional and it could take two to three years for traction. A million units sold in a year to not make a product a failure, in comparison to the ipad it is moving slow but in the market place it is really on the way to the number two spot.

Finally not all of us want or care for apple products. Not all of us want our life controlled and use of a product so handed to us we do not get to say how we use it, or what media, files or items we want on it. To further this not all business want to bent to the inflexibility of Apple in order to try to make their products try to work in a existing environment. Some want a product that enables managers and system managers to lock down the purchasing of apps, or roll out company approved apps. Some want to be able to use network shares and access to network shares out of the box and not jump through hoops to get there. Some want to be able to run their company SharePoint sites, libraries and infrastructures as well as work-flows right out of the box in a native browser and not have to use some crappy third party 'app'. You seem to have drank a bit too much of the cool-aid.

I fully accept being wrong about the car company. Egg on face. As for the rest, it changes nothing. Corporate is selecting iPad over everything else 10-1. What part of that are you disputing? What do you see RIM doing to change that?

[kbz1960]

Cool the pb is dead again.

[dandbj13]

Cool the pb is dead again.

That would only be true if it was ever alive. The PB was stillborn, and went downhill from there. RIM's pride is in the way of them recognizing the obvious.

[kbz1960]

That would only be true if it was ever alive. The PB was stillborn, and went downhill from there. RIM's pride is in the way of them recognizing the obvious.

LOL cool. I've heard it's dead since before it was born.

Edit: I wonder how many lives it has?

[FSeverino]

LOL cool. I've heard it's dead since before it was born.

Edit: I wonder how many lives it has?

Lol. i agree. the playbook SUCKS, yet every single person i have shown it to LOVES IT.

I think the problem is that NO BODY KNOWS ABOUT IT, or if they do it is false information due to the incredibly bad reporting/bias that the media has had towards it. (and obviously the horrible job RIM has done marketing it)

Articles like: "Playbook FINALLY gets email" are VERY damaging to a device, especially when the devices DID have email THE WHOLE TIME, just not a native app.

[dandbj13]

I think the problem is that NO BODY KNOWS ABOUT IT, or if they do it is false information due to the incredibly bad reporting/bias that the media has had towards it. (and obviously the horrible job RIM has done marketing it)

If this world-beating device just needed to be marketed, the RIM should be sued by it's shareholders for malpractice.

Here's an example: Two doctors gaze at a patient who may have less than six months to live. Rather than acknowledge the problems, they talk about how great he looks. They both agree that all he needs is one dose of prednisone to completely heal him.

Either they need to just give the man a pill, or the family of the patient should sue for malpractice, or the problem is a lot worse than what is being said, and the doctors know it.

That is the PB.

Either RIM needs to market it, or they should be sued for not marketing it and losing so much shareholder value over such an oversight, or they know the problem is a lot bigger than some seem to think it is. Time to end this marketing canard.

[FigureThisOut]

I agree with FSeverino that nobody knows about the PB. Not literally. But outside of enterprise not anyone really knows about it other than us enthusiasts. Consumers, especially, that have used Blackberry's in the past may know about the PB but only think of their experiences with BB's and basing their opinion on the PB based on their user experience with phones. They have no idea what QNX is. PB is a great device, but nobody really knows the ins and outs of it offhand.

[FSeverino]

If this world-beating device just needed to be marketed, the RIM should be sued by it's shareholders for malpractice.

Here's an example: Two doctors gaze at a patient who may have less than six months to live. Rather than acknowledge the problems, they talk about how great he looks. They both agree that all he needs is one dose of prednisone to completely heal him.

Either they need to just give the man a pill, or the family of the patient should sue for malpractice, or the problem is a lot worse than what is being said, and the doctors know it.

That is the PB.

Either RIM needs to market it, or they should be sued for not marketing it and losing so much shareholder value over such an oversight, or they know the problem is a lot bigger than some seem to think it is. Time to end this marketing canard.

I think that if i was a shareholder i would look into the possibility of that. That is just like me PAYING an advertising agency and them not doing the work. I know that Marketing can be done be retailers, but what were the documents/details given TO the retailers FROM RIM? I think that if the people in charge of purchasing inventory for major retailers sat down with the PB they would be amazed.

I went to a BB Mobile store to look for a stylus and the guy said... "oh, the playbook... ummm well we have ones for ipads but i dont think they work for PB" ... really? is it not YOUR JOB to know that the PB and iPad have the same types of screens? Further, the stylus did NOT say 'for ipad' it said for capactive screens... so he KNEW what type of screen the iPad had but DIDNT know what the PB had... this is unacceptable and the only reason this happens is because there is no NEED to know about the PB bc the BUYERS dont even know about it... it is a vicious circle. No one cares about the PB so no one buys it, no one buys it so retailers care less, someone goes into buy one and the retailers dont know anything so the person doesnt buy it, sales are bad, less care is given, sales get worse, less care is given... so on.

[jd914]

Schools too. PlayBook is dead.

Amen!

10char

[pilsbury]

LOL cool. I've heard it's dead since before it was born.

Edit: I wonder how many lives it has?

As long as RIM continues to beat this dead horse, I guess there's still some life in its veins. Especially if they continue to discount it like they have. A co-worker bought a new PB at Radio Shack for $168 plus tax. Quite a difference from the original $500 price tag. Does this sound like a device that's doing well in the marketplace? Soon they'll be giving them away.

[kbz1960]

As long as RIM continues to beat this dead horse, I guess there's still some life in its veins. Especially if they continue to discount it like they have. A co-worker bought a new PB at Radio Shack for $168 plus tax. Quite a difference from the original $500 price tag. Does this sound like a device that's doing well in the marketplace? Soon they'll be giving them away.

Well I'm not going to continue this off topic. I only came in go read until I saw....PB is dead.

[dandbj13]

I went to a BB Mobile store to look for a stylus and the guy said... "oh, the playbook... ummm well we have ones for ipads but i dont think they work for PB" ... really? is it not YOUR JOB to know that the PB and iPad have the same types of screens? Further, the stylus did NOT say 'for ipad' it said for capactive screens... so he KNEW what type of screen the iPad had but DIDNT know what the PB had... this is unacceptable and the only reason this happens is because there is no NEED to know about the PB bc the BUYERS dont even know about it... it is a vicious circle. No one cares about the PB so no one buys it, no one buys it so retailers care less, someone goes into buy one and the retailers dont know anything so the person doesnt buy it, sales are bad, less care is given, sales get worse, less care is given... so on.

I understand your story and frustration well. Any longtime Mac user knows what that's like. At some point, though, Apple had to start taking retail seriously, and into their own hands. Before that, it was merely a small but faithful cult following of super geeks. Sound familiar?

Apple did Five things that changed everything:

1. They refined their product line down to just a few products they could manage and market, including a hero product that stood as a symbol of the company: the original iMac.

2. They stopped depending on the Windows dominated retail channel, and built their own chain of unique stores while other vendor stores (Gateway, Sony) were going out of business. They took control of their message.

3. When they returned to the traditional retail channels, they took control of the whole experience, leaving nothing to blue shirts. Apple made sure their products were displayed and marketed the way Apple wanted. To this day, the only, fully-functional computers in stores are usually Macs and iPads.

4. They took control of their marketing message.

5. iTunes. Since then, the world has lined up for their products built for that carefully crafted ecosystem.

RIM hasn't done any of that. At this point RIM's perception problems are RIM's fault, alone.

[brucep1]

Lol. i agree. the playbook SUCKS, yet every single person i have shown it to LOVES IT.

I think the problem is that NO BODY KNOWS ABOUT IT, or if they do it is false information due to the incredibly bad reporting/bias that the media has had towards it. (and obviously the horrible job RIM has done marketing it)

Articles like: "Playbook FINALLY gets email" are VERY damaging to a device, especially when the devices DID have email THE WHOLE TIME, just not a native app.

Or the fact that people can get Netflix on it, they just need to buy another service and keep their computer on the whole time.

When people said "PlayBook FINALLY gets email", they knew they could get it from the browser, but how functional is that exactly? Are you gonna keep the browser open and refresh every 5 minutes? Saying people didn't think they could get email through the browser implies that people didn't think the PlayBook has an internet connection. No one thought that.

[FSeverino]

Or the fact that people can get Netflix on it, they just need to buy another service and keep their computer on the whole time.

When people said "PlayBook FINALLY gets email", they knew they could get it from the browser, but how functional is that exactly? Are you gonna keep the browser open and refresh every 5 minutes? Saying people didn't think they could get email through the browser implies that people didn't think the PlayBook has an internet connection. No one thought that.

How functional is a browser with no flash... your point has been said dozens of times and no one can come at it with a valid reasoning.

lol @ netflix. Try a new excuse. If you NEED netflix then that is YOUR NEED. I have a playbook that can watch ANY tv show or movie EVER RELEASED becasue it can PLAY FLASH... you lose, sorry. I have netflix and would love it on the PB, but it isnt there so i use flash based websites with 100x the choice, you should try it to... o wait, nvm.


Ok, PB doesnt have native email... new ipad doesnt have 4G internet outside of North America... It has a native app for email, but what are you going to do... stay beside a wifi hotspot all day?

[FSeverino]

I understand your story and frustration well. Any longtime Mac user knows what that's like. At some point, though, Apple had to start taking retail seriously, and into their own hands. Before that, it was merely a small but faithful cult following of super geeks. Sound familiar?

Apple did Five things that changed everything:

1. They refined their product line down to just a few products they could manage and market, including a hero product that stood as a symbol of the company: the original iMac.

2. They stopped depending on the Windows dominated retail channel, and built their own chain of unique stores while other vendor stores (Gateway, Sony) were going out of business. They took control of their message.

3. When they returned to the traditional retail channels, they took control of the whole experience, leaving nothing to blue shirts. Apple made sure their products were displayed and marketed the way Apple wanted. To this day, the only, fully-functional computers in stores are usually Macs and iPads.

4. They took control of their marketing message.

5. iTunes. Since then, the world has lined up for their products built for that carefully crafted ecosystem.

RIM hasn't done any of that. At this point RIM's perception problems are RIM's fault, alone.

I agree that this is where the problem started. no one can doubt that. but to say it is RIM alone is also being a bit ignorant. If i say FOCUS and you say CLOSE SHOP/GIVE UP there is a little bit of fault on you for total disregard of my word. RIM has done a horrible job of marketing one of the best devices in a long time (PB), but the media has also done a horrible job at 'supporting' RIM.

When apple faulters (iphone4 reception, iOS 5 battery, new iPad 4G) it is always 'user error' or 'oh a fix will be coming in a few days' (and to apples credit a few days means less then a year)... so how is something as big as all those dropped calls or NO 4G on a 4G device NOT in the news when someone saying that they will be trying to focus on business models and partnerships becomes plastered EVERYWHERE as RIM THROWING IN THE TOWEL?

explain that in a way that is ONLY RIMs fault

(and for the mods that will say I brought this off topic... i never said ANYTHING negative about apple devices, i said the BB employee didnt know about PB... didnt mention ANYTHING about apple device other then the screen type...)

[Vindicators]

Ok, PB doesnt have native email... new ipad doesnt have 4G internet outside of North America... It has a native app for email, but what are you going to do... stay beside a wifi hotspot all day?

3G or HSPA+, even AT&T marketed it as 4G lol

And the new iPad 4G feature is work exactly like any other LTE 4G (galaxy tab lte, lumia 900,....), nothing fault or missing from the device
If anything it is fail ads.

Talking about the Playbook, it is missing basic function like PIM,calendar, email client (POP3, IMAP,Exchange, event/note sync,.... not just a app for check email)

Not only that, the Playbook are market as a bussiness tablet, yet its dont even have a decent handwriting or pdf annotate software, let alone more advanced, sophiscated business/productivity apps.

Even the current OS itself and API support for development is a fraction compared to iOS. push notification, system-wise document sync, automatic push content, geofence reminder,.... just name a few.


Oh, but it is not fair, right? Those crap iPad fail so much because it only have LTE speed on compatible network, and 3G HSPA+ for the rest. ROFL

[Thunderbuck]

I fully accept being wrong about the car company. Egg on face. As for the rest, it changes nothing. Corporate is selecting iPad over everything else 10-1. What part of that are you disputing? What do you see RIM doing to change that?

Now, the Playbook is running a precursor OS to BB10, and it is drawing developers to the platform.

Doesn't that alone justify continuing to sell them? RIM is making some revenue from media channels, and they make a small profit off the 64GB devices.

Keeping the Playbook on the market will help ensure the success of the BB10 phones.

[Thunderbuck]

3G or HSPA+, even AT&T marketed it as 4G lol

And the new iPad 4G feature is work exactly like any other LTE 4G (galaxy tab lte, lumia 900,....), nothing fault or missing from the device
If anything it is fail ads.

Talking about the Playbook, it is missing basic function like PIM,calendar, email client (POP3, IMAP,Exchange, event/note sync,.... not just a app for check email)

I'm going to assume you haven't seen the new native e-mail client on PB 2.0...

Not only that, the Playbook are market as a bussiness tablet, yet its dont even have a decent handwriting or pdf annotate software, let alone more advanced, sophiscated business/productivity apps.

There are a variety of such apps out there, including Jotsy for online collaboration and qPDF.

When you take shots, you should make sure you're not firing blanks