[sivan]

I love stuaw11's homespun iPhone advices: juice packs, chargers and now duct tape. Perfection has never been this attainable.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[loki993]

For every person who can reproduce the issue there is one who cant. So I dont call it confirmed 100% of anything unless it was every single device able to reproduce it every time. There has to be a reason some can reproduce it and some cant, theyre the same phones.

But again, there are proactive measure to take to solve the problem that are pretty painless and easy. But its easier to whine on the internet then go find a solution that works for you be it a case or some strip screen protector or something over the spot (or just honestly changing how you hold the thing and adapting).

I actually posted that before I saw your post. As I'm on Verizon I don't really know much about the iphone,aside from what I read about it, so if you say thats all it takes to remedy the problem than I believe you. As easy as it is though when someone spends 200 dollars on a phone they generally expect it to work without any modifications, no matter how cheap and painless they are. I see what your saying though.

[stuaw11]

I love stuaw11's homespun iPhone advices: juice packs, chargers and now duct tape. Perfection has never been this attainable.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Lets not even get into BBs' many hardware/design flaws of recent past (Storm 1, sticking/dead trackballs, creaky battery doors needing paper/cardboard in them to sit properly, loose nameplate piece below the keyboard, wobbly unlevel trackpads, etc etc etc)

[sivan]

LOL. You own both an iPhone and a BlackBerry, there's no way you're going to win this.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[DenverRalphy]

I don't think this particular event with Consumer Reports will affect the iPhone 4, as pretty much most Apple loyalists have already purchased or ordered theirs. The bulk of apple iProducts are gambling on initial sales upon release.

I myself am not an iProduct user, however I will concede that the iPhone is a decent device (it's just not for me).

However what I speculate from this event with Consumer Reports is that now there is a well known consumer advocacy group stepping up to the plate and basically saying... "This isn't the be-all end-all product like many would like to believe." Which may very well be the catalyst that sparks a momentum in which many so-called reliable reviewers won't just praise iProducts simply because it's Apple. There will probably be more an more sites that will not balk at criticizing iProducts in fear of ostracizing themselves.

My guess is that the next iPhone release won't be as 'stellar' in initial sales as previous releases. Sure you'll still see iSheep camping out a week in advance to get their hands on their next products... and the initial sales will be good. It'll probably just not be as big as this latest release.

[Entertainment72]

For every person who can reproduce the issue there is one who cant. So I dont call it confirmed 100% of anything unless it was every single device able to reproduce it every time. There has to be a reason some can reproduce it and some cant, theyre the same phones.

But again, there are proactive measure to take to solve the problem that are pretty painless and easy. But its easier to whine on the internet then go find a solution that works for you be it a case or some strip screen protector or something over the spot (or just honestly changing how you hold the thing and adapting).

I have two iPhone 4's and CANNOT reproduce the issue.. this reception thing is most definitely not 100%.

[Fnord]

I have two iPhone 4's and CANNOT reproduce the issue.. this reception thing is most definitely not 100%.

I believe that it is 100%.

It has to do with the formula Apple is using to display reception bars.

Reception is measured in DB, and right now Apple has it set that a drop from 5 bars to 4 equals -50db, 4 to 3 is -10db, 3 to 2 is -10db, 2 to 1 -10db...

The antenna issue in question results in a drop of around -20db. So if you are in a strong signal area you can easily loose 20db and maintain 5 bars.

If you are in a weak signal area (to the point where you are barely within the 5 bar range), a drop of around -20db can easily take you down 3 bars.

It's a physics related hardware issue so all phones will be effected, you just might never notice the problem is you live and work in an area with strong signal strength.

[infamyx]

I have two iPhone 4's and CANNOT reproduce the issue.. this reception thing is most definitely not 100%.

This is an issue that is found on 100% of iphone 4s, its causes -20dbm disturbance if you hold it in that left corner. If you are in a high/perfect signal area then the antenna issue will have minimal impact as it wont cause much issue or isn't noticeable.

If you are in a low/mediocre signal area that -20dBm is enough to kill service completely. With the way Apple displays signal (hint: its incorrect) its why some peoples phones are unusuable, because they are in mediocre signal areas but the phone displays 5 bars, they touch the "g-spot", boom dead phone.

This is an issue that effects all the 4s. This is why people are having a fit, it's not a bad batch of phones. Its every phone regardless of network.

[sookster54]

Yes it's a bad thing if revirews don't recommend it. And I found it funny that the fix for bad reception is putting duct tape on the corner of the phone, lol Apple needs to admit they goofed up and recall the models.

[stuaw11]

LOL. You own both an iPhone and a BlackBerry, there's no way you're going to win this.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

There was no attempts to win anything. Just point out EVERY device has its flaws, just the iphone takes more public flack because of its popularity.

[Entertainment72]

I'm am not going to get into a pissing match, I just know I have no reception or signal bar issues no matter how I hold it. I think for the people having issues Apple should replace their units, simple as that.

[Totalimmortal363]

This will deter very few.

[Rooster99]

... However what I speculate from this event with Consumer Reports is that now there is a well known consumer advocacy group stepping up to the plate and basically saying... "This isn't the be-all end-all product like many would like to believe." Which may very well be the catalyst that sparks a momentum in which many so-called reliable reviewers won't just praise iProducts simply because it's Apple. There will probably be more an more sites that will not balk at criticizing iProducts in fear of ostracizing themselves.

My guess is that the next iPhone release won't be as 'stellar' in initial sales as previous releases. Sure you'll still see iSheep camping out a week in advance to get their hands on their next products... and the initial sales will be good. It'll probably just not be as big as this latest release.

Very well said, and borne out by the poll results so far - 50%+ saying it made them full stop or at least reconsider.

And anecdotally, I have very technically savvy friends who love their iPhones and before had always defended them as the perfect be-all and end-all. Even to the point of saying the "death grip" was a non-issue, which totally surprised me. After the CR report, they now say yes, there is a problem, Apple should fix it, etc. Very subdued.

"... now there is a well known consumer advocacy group stepping up to the plate and basically saying... "This isn't the be-all end-all product like many would like to believe."

The emperor has no clothes!

- R.

[stuaw11]

Very well said, and borne out by the poll results so far - 50%+ saying it made them full stop or at least reconsider.

And anecdotally, I have very technically savvy friends who love their iPhones and before had always defended them as the perfect be-all and end-all. Even to the point of saying the "death grip" was a non-issue, which totally surprised me. After the CR report, they now say yes, there is a problem, Apple should fix it, etc. Very subdued.

"... now there is a well known consumer advocacy group stepping up to the plate and basically saying... "This isn't the be-all end-all product like many would like to believe."

The emperor has no clothes!

- R.

I wouldnt call a poll here exactly scientific since its anonymous and a lot of BB fanboys liek to troll and vote just to much up the results who never would buy an iphone either way.

[pkcable]

How about E. Wasn't gonna get it EVEN before the CS article!

[Rooster99]

How about E. Wasn't gonna get it EVEN before the CS article!

Good point. Just need to have 5 poll options. And to previous poster, I recognize this isn't scientific - look at the sampled audience and size. It's still one step above anecdotal evidence.

- R.

[stuaw11]

I guess I still dont get why if the person had no intentions either way to buy it why thats even relevant to the question presented either way then.

Id also be willing to be if we revealed what users voted for which, the majority of the "full stop" people would be the notorious BB trolls who have nothing better to do and never had any intention of getting the phone no matter what it was. How that is relevant to the question alludes me.

So Id take a poll in a mainly BB forum with a huge grain of salt with the chilidish bickering and trolling that goes on around here. A more accurate poll would be on something like TIPB or such where most users are iphone users and arent voting simply "to spite the Apple users."

[Roo Zilla]

People who get iPhones are like people who get BBs. They're locked into the experience. Whether you value the BBM or whether you value the browser, there are reasons for making the choice for a particular device.

The thing the BB people don't really get is that once people start using iPhone for a length of time they get used to how it works, it's really difficult to change to something else. The same can be said for BBs. Since the majority of iPhone purchases are from previous users, I have strong doubts those people are going to all of a sudden change their minds.

For sure the antenna thing is an issue, but it's not like it's the first ever problem with an iPhone. iPhone users have always had to make certain concessions to use their device, and I don't think this particular issue is so bad it's going to turn people off, even new converts.

I think the one thing forum people occasionally forget is that they are not typical users of these devices. The vast majority here tend to be power users. Most people might use their phones to make calls for perhaps 15-20 minutes per day, and most people don't use their devices for mission critical communications. If a call gets dropped, so what? It's annoying, but it's not the end of the world. It all comes down to what you can live with and what you can't. As long as they can make a couple of calls a day, and send some text messages, most people are happy. The rest of the time, they play the games, and use the iPod features.

[sivan]

I actually had the intention of trying the iPhone 4. I played it with it at the store and was impressed, and with reports on great camera and good battery life I was willing to give it a try. I was on a waiting list but when Apple notified me it arrived this Saturday, I declined.

I've already been "fooled once" by AT&T. I'm not going to see for myself if there is an issue or not, now they have to convince me that there are no problems. I have friends I no longer text to because it's impossible to know if and when they'll receive the message, and I heard even from the most ardent Apple defenders that calls are still dropping like crazy, it's just they they are willing to put up with it.

So yeah, I'm actually open minded and have known AT&T first hand. But in fact I didn't answer the poll yet.

I think that even if Apple does some kind of a recall or offers an acceptable free case that alleviates the problem, there's some irreversible damage done. From now on iPhone reception will be a pet peeve with reviewers and, especially with the iPhone displaying AT&T signal strength more accurately, Apple will no longer be able to feign ignorance about their problematic relationship with AT&T.

People want to believe and for a while Apple gave them something to believe in. Lots of reviewers cut Apple slack just to keep the image intact.

[Rooster99]

I think that even if Apple does some kind of a recall or offers an acceptable free case that alleviates the problem, there's some irreversible damage done. From now on iPhone reception will be a pet peeve with reviewers and, especially with the iPhone displaying AT&T signal strength more accurately, Apple will no longer be able to feign ignorance about their problematic relationship with AT&T.

People want to believe and for a while Apple gave them something to believe in. Lots of reviewers cut Apple slack just to keep the image intact.

Good points, synth - I have to agree. The media and crowds are fickle, and this will be remembered. Jobs' reaction made it worse.

I, like you, was actively considering the iPhone 4 once I'd read about the improved battery life and new multi-tasking capabilities. Now I'm on the fence.

How do you feel about the "tape" solution? An inch or so of clear cello or perhaps screen protector. Seems innocent enough, no? What are your thoughts there?

- R.

[phonejunky]

When was the last time someone read consumer reports before they bought their Blackberry, Android, or iPhone? Yea never get out of here haters

[sivan]

How do you feel about the "tape" solution? An inch or so of clear cello or perhaps screen protector. Seems innocent enough, no? What are your thoughts there?

No, it just feels defective to me. I like to buy stuff that works out of the box and keep it stock.

I never used cases. The first thing I noticed when I held it is that it was uncomfortable to hold securely in the hand, because it's thin and has no curves. So with the antenna issue, the lack of secure grip and the glass shell, it seems that a case is a must. So that would be a first.

It bothers me that Apple doesn't play by the rules, so to speak. They create alluring designs that are meant to sell, even if the customer realizes later that they need to wrap it in a case. At least they started getting serious about battery life, but at the same time threw ergonomics and reception out the window. They need to get real, nail down the basics, even if it means that their phone might resemble a BlackBerry or some other more practical device. Johnny Ive needs to be reined in.

[stuaw11]

When was the last time someone read consumer reports before they bought their Blackberry, Android, or iPhone? Yea never get out of here haters

Well I have to agree with that. A washing machine or a lawn mower, ok. but a cell phone? I HIGHLY doubt the average consumer goes to CR for cell phone recommendations.



And if the phone is "too thin" or "not rounded enough" then get a case and it solves both problems (antenna too), its really not the end of the world as people make it out to be. Incipio makes a GREAT feather case that is barely 1mm thin and you can barely tell its on there size wise. I personally could not fathom carrying a phone that is glass on front and back without at least a thin grippy shell to keep it from getting all scratched up even from being on a table.

Just because the phone is pretty doesnt mean thats all it is good for with all of the improvements they made to the internals. The case shouldnt change someone's choice to use a particular phone unless they are truly more concerned with looks than functions.

[weblou]

Well you don't have to read it.. It was everywhere.. Even on TV, WSJ, ect. Most of us here won't care because we would rather try it out for our self and usually take the time to read a little more on the issue than the "regular buyer" that doesn't visit these sites. So I do believe that this will affect apple. Already I have friends over here that decided not to get it because of the antenna problem. Even if you surf the web a lot of Apple loyalist are not getting this one or returning the one they got.
You could love apple as much as you want but one thing is for sure... this is very bad press. The Iphone was already the Joke of not being able to make calls and now this??? And SJ reply to all this mess was icing on the cake.
Personally I might still get it and give it a try for my self but if it involves me putting a case or tape on it to make a call forget it.

When was the last time someone read consumer reports before they bought their Blackberry, Android, or iPhone? Yea never get out of here haters

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[stuaw11]

But again no one is asking the IMPORTANT questions.

Everyone is so wrapped up in "bars" and "dB" and no one has even bothered to find out if the iphone 4 is dropping more calls than previous iphones. Thats what really matters 2 vs 4 bars means nothing, -110dB vs 90dB means nothing if the call is just fine and doesnt drop. Why be so wrapped up in semantics when no one is even asking the right questions?

Its clear people just are actively looking for something to whine about. Its happened with every iphone release, people find things to moan and complain over and over and over again about while Apple sells millions of devices.