[leftypepper716]

A Sprint customer service tech (call center, NOT store) told me today that Sprint as NO plans picking up the upcoming Apple iphone 4S later this summer. Company mantra is that Sprint is doing very fine, thank you with the enormous success of the HTC EV0 and EV0 shift and have great hopes for Evo 3D as well as their other Androids selling well. But when pushed, the main reason seems Apple wants to "Mob-like" mentality Sprint, nickle and dime them while Apple reaps the huge dollars. Also he noted that Sprint was actually offered to carry the iphone 4 before Verizon, and they passed at the time, for the same reason. Seems pretty logical to me. And again, this is no official statement, just some info.

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[Economist101]

The problems with this are as follows:

One, a "Call center tech" isn't exactly the best source for why a particular device is or is not being carried.

Two, Dan Hesse was quoted in April as acknowledging the effect the Verizon iPhone 4 had on Sprint's business, so if he passed on it then the Board and shareholders are going to want a better explanation than "Apple was nickel and diming us by charging us the same price they charge everyone else."

Three, if Apple were going to build a CDMA iPhone, do you HONESTLY believe they would approach Sprint before Verizon? That doesn't make any sense at all.

[Snipperdo17]

Yeah every part of that isn't right. If they have the chance to carry the iPhone, they will carry it. It would be their best seller, and since the merge of AT&T and T-Mobile is probably going to pass, Sprint needs to get the best handsets to have a chance of competing.

[leftypepper716]

Hey I totally agree. But if Apple is say, selling Sprint the iphone4S for $400 per unit, and Sprint sells for $200, they're losing $200 per phone (which I know, all carriers actually lose money on the device itself, they make it back on contracts to customers) But maybe Apple wanted a bigger cut of profits that Sprint didn't want to give up? Just because Apple makes HUGE obsence profits, does not mean the carriers themselves make that same profit.

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[lnichols]

Yeah I'm sure that a company hemorrhaging customers like Sprint would turn down the iPhone.

[Economist101]

Hey I totally agree. But if Apple is say, selling Sprint the iphone4S for $400 per unit, and Sprint sells for $200, they're losing $200 per phone (which I know, all carriers actually lose money on the device itself, they make it back on contracts to customers) But maybe Apple wanted a bigger cut of profits that Sprint didn't want to give up? Just because Apple makes HUGE obsence profits, does not mean the carriers themselves make that same profit.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

It sounds like you're trying to find a way to make what you believe sound plausible. You're right about profits, and I don't think anyone's claiming that carriers make profits similar to Apple. But your hypothetical fails for two key reasons. One, it would be foolish to ignore Verizon in favor of Sprint. Two, Sprint wouldn't turn down a chance to carry the iPhone when they have cited the absence of the iPhone as one of their primary reasons for customer churn.

[leftypepper716]

Not unless Apple is asking too much from Sprint, whereas Sprint may have a better profit margin with say, HTC . I myself find it odd that Sprint wouldnt JUMP at getting an iphone in thier stores, iphones DO make money, and a heck of alot. If Sprint IS making great sells from thier flagship Evo 4G, Evo Shift and antisipating a huge summer in the Evo 3D, just maybe the Sprint tech was telling the truth. He also noted that Sprint has an excellent relationship with RIM, and that Sprint will definatly be getting the Bold 9930. Getting back to the iphone 4S coming to Sprint, maybe Dan Hesse is still in negotiations with Apple to bring the iphone to Sprint, but i'm sure Sprint wants a nice piece of the iphone pie too, if they do carry it.

[thecoach1999]

Apple is in total control when they deal with the carrier's. Go into Rogers, Bell or telus store and see if there is an iPhone on display. There won't be. When I worked for the Source Apple had verry strict guildline on how we could display the iPhone. All the other makers paid to be on display, Apple refused too. We had to carry it on our hips so it would be handy to give to the cus to walk around with.

I onle gave a cus my BB to play with and he went ahead and purchased. After I told my distrcit mngr, he flipped cause Apply had an agreement that only their fones would be in assoc pockets not BB, and they specifically said BB.

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[scorpiodsu]

Anyone is crazy to believe that a carrier doesn't want the iPhone right now. No matter how good they are doing (even though Sprint isn't) having the single most popular smartphone on your network is a good thing. Since when does it make sense to say "we don't want the iPhone because we have the EVO". That would be the most idiotic thing ever because I bet many customer jumped from Sprint to AT&T and VZW just for the iPhone. It doesn't hurt to have it IN ADDITION to all your other devices.

"the main reason seems Apple wants to "Mob-like" mentality Sprint, nickle and dime them while Apple reaps the huge dollars"

Uh, and the carrier gets to lock millions of users into contracts. Yeah carriers don't like to do that

[scorpiodsu]

I myself find it odd that Sprint wouldnt JUMP at getting an iphone in thier stores, iphones DO make money, and a heck of alot.

The problem with this is that it assumes that it's up to Sprint to carry an iPhone. At this point in time, it's Apple's call. You don't think carriers make a lot of money on the iPhone by locking people into contracts and the data services people have to pay for? Whether we like it or not, there would not be nearly as many people now paying for data services from their carrier if it wasn't for the iPhone. AT&T has used the iPhone as a reason to cap data plans. And that still doesn't stop people. It is to the carriers' benefit to carry the iPhone. Regardless of how good other devices are selling. No question about it. I'd bet my left arm that no other device in history has caused so many people to ditch their carrier and/or continue to lock into contracts with their carriers to get the newest release. Just stop it.

[greggebhardt]

Sprint would give their left ba|| to carry the iPhone, any iPhone.

Blackberry said it would release the phone this summer, summer does not end until Sept 22.

Just sayin

[Jake Storm]

Meh.
The iPhone 4S is just a refresh that's been delayed 6 months past Apple's normal upgrade cycle.
Apple is running out of "magical" ideas. iOS is showing it's age.

[Economist101]

Meh.
The iPhone 4S is just a refresh that's been delayed 6 months past Apple's normal upgrade cycle.
Apple is running out of "magical" ideas. iOS is showing it's age.

Except it's not going to be a 6-month delay; I'd expect to see it in September, which is 2-3 months behind their typical launch date of late June/July. As far as running out of "magical" ideas, I don't think there is a tech company out there that wouldn't trade its balance sheet for Apple's, certainly none of the mobile device OEMs/Microsoft/Google/etc.

[leftypepper716]

Hey! guess what? i'm NOT Dan Hesse OR the Sprint tech who without hesitaton said Sprint wasn't getting the iphone. Do not cast all this on me Like all of you, I found it VERY odd that Sprint would'nt have iphone. There must be some kind of inpasse between Apple and Sprint at the moment. I am not taking Sprint's side on this at all. To me, if ALL four major carriers did have iphone 4S, that makes HTC, Samsung, Motorola and yes, BlackBerry raise thier bar of quality that much higher. More market competition is ALWAYS better for the consumer. Don't hate the messenger for the message.

[Jake Storm]

Except it's not going to be a 6-month delay; I'd expect to see it in September, which is 2-3 months behind their typical launch date of late June/July. As far as running out of "magical" ideas, I don't think there is a tech company out there that wouldn't trade its balance sheet for Apple's, certainly none of the mobile device OEMs/Microsoft/Google/etc.

What does their balance sheet have to do with my comment?
Just because the iSheep keep buying a dated OS, doesn't mean it's cutting edge.
The iPhone 4S ad campaign should read "This doesn't change anything".

It's basically the same phone they've been putting out for 4 years with a slight refresh every year. Add cut-and-paste and people buy it by the millions... magical

[Snipperdo17]

What does their balance sheet have to do with my comment?
Just because the iSheep keep buying a dated OS, doesn't mean it's cutting edge.
The iPhone 4S ad campaign should read "This doesn't change anything".

It's basically the same phone they've been putting out for 4 years with a slight refresh every year. Add cut-and-paste and people buy it by the millions... magical

How is iOS an outdated OS? They are adding features that people want, and the OS is obviously what people want as well. It is easy to develop for and people can do many things on iOS. Would love to hear how the OS is dated, especially when they continually add more and more features that the OS is obviously capable of handling.

[Economist101]

What does their balance sheet have to do with my comment?
Just because the iSheep keep buying a dated OS, doesn't mean it's cutting edge.
The iPhone 4S ad campaign should read "This doesn't change anything".

It's basically the same phone they've been putting out for 4 years with a slight refresh every year. Add cut-and-paste and people buy it by the millions... magical

You're right. Maybe other manufacturers should follow suit. Launch a device, offer virtually no updates and sell millions. Makes perfect sense to, well, you I guess.

[Snick Snack]

How is iOS an outdated OS? They are adding features that people want, and the OS is obviously what people want as well. It is easy to develop for and people can do many things on iOS. Would love to hear how the OS is dated, especially when they continually add more and more features that the OS is obviously capable of handling.

I see Jake's point. Perhaps it's not an outdated OS, but really tell me what was the major upgrade from iPhone3 to 3S and from 3S to 4 and now to 4S? Perhaps a camera or at least a 3 mpx camera?

My colleague had a iPhone3 and never could open jpeg and PDFs on her phone. She's finally upgraded to an iPhone 4 now and at least she can open jpegs other people send her although she still has to download to PDF app converter or whatever you call it onto her phone so she can open PDFs.

Getting back to the point, how much internally has the iPhones changed? I would suppose it could be faster but that is not necessarily OS that could be different processor...

Whatever the case I think we have all wandered of the topic here about iPhones not being available for Sprint.

If Sprint is CDMA then perhaps the simple reason is that that iPhone is not compatible with Sprint's system. iPhones are GSM phones. I don't know any iPhones that are CDMA. I could be wrong, but why would Sprint have a phone not compatilble with their system?

[southlander]

I see Jake's point. Perhaps it's not an outdated OS, but really tell me what was the major upgrade from iPhone3 to 3S and from 3S to 4 and now to 4S? Perhaps a camera or at least a 3 mpx camera?

My colleague had a iPhone3 and never could open jpeg and PDFs on her phone. She's finally upgraded to an iPhone 4 now and at least she can open jpegs other people send her although she still has to download to PDF app converter or whatever you call it onto her phone so she can open PDFs.

Getting back to the point, how much internally has the iPhones changed? I would suppose it could be faster but that is not necessarily OS that could be different processor...

Whatever the case I think we have all wandered of the topic here about iPhones not being available for Sprint.

If Sprint is CDMA then perhaps the simple reason is that that iPhone is not compatible with Sprint's system. iPhones are GSM phones. I don't know any iPhones that are CDMA. I could be wrong, but why would Sprint have a phone not compatilble with their system?

Verizon iPhone has a CDMA chipset.

[Snick Snack]

Verizon iPhone has a CDMA chipset.

It that's the case then there could be some major financial costs that Apple is requiring Sprint to put out that we are not aware of.

At some point you have to say no to a deal if you're going to only break even or take a lost on it... it's the risk of doing business, knowing when to walk away and when to stay. I've been on both sides, walking away from a deal and having a deal walk away from me.

[southlander]

It that's the case then there could be some major financial costs that Apple is requiring Sprint to put out that we are not aware of.

At some point you have to say no to a deal if you're going to only break even or take a lost on it... it's the risk of doing business, knowing when to walk away and when to stay. I've been on both sides, walking away from a deal and having a deal walk away from me.

Sprint is by far weakest of the carriers. I am sure Apple would be dictating the terms.

[Snick Snack]

Sprint is by far weakest of the carriers. I am sure Apple would be dictating the terms.

Yep, I think you're right! And they probably won't be able to recoup the costs even with new users and existing users picking up the iphone. They would have to compete with pricing plans that Verizon would have to offer and they may take an additional lost on that as well if they're not that big a carrier company.

[Economist101]

I see Jake's point. Perhaps it's not an outdated OS, but really tell me what was the major upgrade from iPhone3 to 3S and from 3S to 4 and now to 4S? Perhaps a camera or at least a 3 mpx camera?

Ah. So it's not enough to build a device that people want to buy; there must also be "major upgrades" between generations. Got it. Sounds to me like you're grading on a curve, but to each their own.

My colleague had a iPhone3 and never could open jpeg and PDFs on her phone. She's finally upgraded to an iPhone 4 now and at least she can open jpegs other people send her although she still has to download to PDF app converter or whatever you call it onto her phone so she can open PDFs.

This might be the first time I've heard something that suggested iOS might be too complicated. FYI, iOS has always supported JPEG and PDF viewing (i.e. since June 2007).

[Snick Snack]

Ah. So it's not enough to build a device that people want to buy; there must also be "major upgrades" between generations. Got it. Sounds to me like you're grading on a curve, but to each their own.



This might be the first time I've heard something that suggested iOS might be too complicated. FYI, iOS has always supported JPEG and PDF viewing (i.e. since June 2007).

When I buy a phone whether it is an iPhone or a BB I would like to know that each successive phone is better then the phone I previously had by a lot, not just a minor upgrade.

I don't have the disposable income to get a phone every 6 -8 month because that same phone now comes out with some "tweaks" albeit useful tweaks. I would really start to get upset with my phone provider because I just spent $199 or $299 or $499 to get this phone but realize that I need the new functions on the new phone more and now I have to pay that same amount for that new phone or be stuck with my old phone until my contract runs out.

If you consider that building a device people want, good on you. I consider that a rip off..

I also did not state anywhere that the iOS was complicated. Where did you see I wrote that?

I said my colleague's iPhone 3 couldn't open jpegs for whatever reason and she wasn't the only person not able to do that with an iPhone 3 in our company. I was there when I sent her the jpeg and she couldn't open it on her phone, so I'm not making it up.

If the iOS controls the ability of the phone to open jPegs without downloading an app for it, then obviously there is an issue with the iOS. Does that make it complicated? No. It just makes it an issue.

[Jake Storm]

Ah. So it's not enough to build a device that people want to buy...

There's a difference between building a device that people want to buy, or building a mediocre device and then marketing the heck out of it until you can brainwash people into thinking that it's magical.