[igorsky]

Brother believe me I'm very secure in my manhood. And one of the ways in which I exercize my security is to buy a phone which suits my needs with ZERO regard for silly magazine articles.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[stuaw11]

The fact that the author suggests that Apple is "feminizing" its products by making them easier to use is probably a little insulting to women. And it's a little bit odd that he would say that, and then turn around in the same article and say that women just as easily can understand and use technology as men can.

According to this data, men use the iPhone much more than women do:

comscore-smartphone-iphone-total-mobile-usage-by-gender-may-2008.jpg

Yes people PLEASE read this link, especially the chart at the top. Its may be 2008 numbers and not the US, but the trend is VERY clear- about 70% male, 30% female iphone users

Just because some writer SAYS something is so without a drop of fact, is it really so?

What else did you expect from and EDITORIAL from a clearly feminist viewpoint writer? This "article" means nothing what so ever to anyone's desire to use the phone, so why bother trying to insinuate something?

[clitrenta]

Brother believe me I'm very secure in my manhood. And one of the ways in which I exercize my security is to buy a phone which suits my needs with ZERO regard for silly magazine articles.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Amen brother. I'm female and i don't avoid phones that some people think are "manly". I get what I need and I could care less what others think. I will however, that there was a time when I totally discounted getting a Sidekick because literally EVERYTHING I read screamed that this was a "kid's" phone and not suited for mature, rational adults. I don;t see it myself. It has a repuation for being for the teen crowd but in functionality, it's not much different than a lot of other phones. The marketing almost shames anyone over 25 from getting the thing. still, I'm more irriated that I let that influence me even if I do love my BB.

[berryite]

I'm very secure in my manhood.

What was it that Shakespeare wrote in Hamlet?

Oh yeah ... "thou doth protest too much."

Shakespeare was gay.

[berryite]

Yes people PLEASE read this link, especially the chart at the top. Its may be 2008 numbers and not the US, but the trend is VERY clear- about 70% male, 30% female iphone users

Just because some writer SAYS something is so without a drop of fact, is it really so?

What else did you expect from and EDITORIAL from a clearly feminist viewpoint writer? This "article" means nothing what so ever to anyone's desire to use the phone, so why bother trying to insinuate something?

The two are not mutually exclusive. Smartphone adoption may favor men. The iPhone sales stats would appear to follow that trend. That does not mean that Apple has not designed and marketed a phone to gain wider acceptance with women who as earlier noted represent the largest consumer buying group in the USA.

Cigarettes once were only bought by men. That changed. Apple is nothing if they are not consumer savvy. The Forbes article seems to insinuate that Apple has targeted design and marketing strategies on the iPhone to appeal to women. You can't disprove that by citing European sales statistics.

Nothing scientific here but I was in an Apple store several days ago (looking at the Mac Pro Book) and there were several sales people on the floor selling iPhones. ALL of the people buying them were women. BTW, Apple has exceptionally eye-catching packaging for the iPhone. As I suggested earlier, Apple is nothing if they aren't consumer and marketing savvy.

[sniffs]

A woman wrote this. LOL. That explains it.

Does the iPhone need a remote? How is a mac easier than a PC? This is why they have classes. How many times have I seen someone (especially females) say "these mice don't have a left and right click?"

That women probably likes other women, has short spikey hair, emo glasses and drives a toyota prius.


EDITED: I was thinking of the Honda Incite when I said "prius", but either work.

[berryite]

That women probably likes other women, has short spikey hair, emo glasses and drives a honda prius.

LOL. Hillarious.

(btw, it's a Toyota Prius)

[sniffs]

LOL. Hillarious.

(btw, it's a Toyota Prius)

omg, I totally knew that, wtf.. im a car guy and I got that wrong!

I'm ashamed.

[mdude85]

The two are not mutually exclusive. Smartphone adoption may favor men. The iPhone sales stats would appear to follow that trend. That does not mean that Apple has not designed and marketed a phone to gain wider acceptance with women who as earlier noted represent the largest consumer buying group in the USA.

The Forbes article seems to insinuate that Apple has targeted design and marketing strategies on the iPhone to appeal to women. You can't disprove that by citing European sales statistics.

Smartphone adoption may favor men, but if you look at the statistics of iPhone sales compared with overall smartphone sales in that article, you will see that the iPhone is generally adopted by women at the same rate as smartphones as a whole. In fact, the iPhone seems more adopted by men than overall smartphones, at least by taking the average of those 3 EU countries. So those statistics are indeed telling.

[Duvi]

I think this is where you're wrong. Apple is very intuitive and I believe makes some of the EASIEST things to use. If anything, it will only take a little time to tinker with (the new device) toy.

Which proves my point... you have to tinker with it. With windows, it's self explanatory. Go into Bestbuy (where I used to work) and watch mac/windows setups and see the confusion when someone's on mac. What attracts them is the colors and how sexy it looks, but when it comes to using it, that's a different story.

Once again, Apple doesn't have these tutoring sessions for no reason.

Macs aren't difficult, but it's not as easy as windows.

[berryite]

Smartphone adoption may favor men, but if you look at the statistics of iPhone sales compared with overall smartphone sales in that article, you will see that the iPhone is generally adopted by women at the same rate as smartphones as a whole. In fact, the iPhone seems more adopted by men than overall smartphones, at least by taking the average of those 3 EU countries. So those statistics are indeed telling.

You're just reposting what has already been said.

And my point was ...

<This> does not mean that Apple has not designed and marketed a phone to gain wider acceptance with women who as earlier noted represent the largest consumer buying group in the USA. ... Forbes believes Apple has filled that niche with a decidedly feminine approach to technology: the iPhone.

[berryite]

What attracts them is the colors and how sexy it looks, but when it comes to using it, that's a different story.

I enjoy spending time in coffee shops when I can to work on my computer. I use a Sony Vaio and while I am not unhappy with Sony, I am very unhappy with Bill Gates. I've been eyeing the Mac Pro Book for some time. And I never fail to stop and talk to anyone who might be using one to get their opinion. I've NEVER gotten a bad response on the Mac (and I've asked a LOT of people). Everyone loves their Pro Books.

I can't wait to get one. Bill Gates has earned his last dime off of me.

[mdude85]

You're just reposting what has already been said.

And my point was ...

<This> does not mean that Apple has not designed and marketed a phone to gain wider acceptance with women who as earlier noted represent the largest consumer buying group in the USA. ... Forbes believes Apple has filled that niche with a decidedly feminine approach to technology: the iPhone.

I am not just reposting what has already been said. You said the statistics I posted were not useful because smartphones as a whole are skewed toward use by men, and iPhone sales just follow that skew. That may be true, but my point was that the iPhone adoption by women is not much different from smartphones as a whole, which indicates that even if Apple were actively marketing its phones to women, then it is not working very well, since at least based on those statistics I posted earlier, iPhone adoption by women is about on par with overall smartphone adoption by women.

If iPhone adoption by women was higher compared with smartphones overall, then it would be evidence that the iPhone is the smartphone of choice for women.

I don't think Apple is really marketing its products to appeal to women. I think Apple is marketing its products to appeal to a wide variety of audiences, including men and women about equally. Just because women have an easy time purchasing usable electronics does not really indicate that Apple is marketing to them directly, or is even creating products with them in mind. I think if there were evidence that increased smartphone adoption by women was helped by the iPhone, it would just be evidence that men and women both like purchasing usable electronics, and not much more than that. But right now, there is not much evidence aside from anecdotal evidence.

[sniffs]

I enjoy spending time in coffee shops when I can to work on my computer. I use a Sony Vaio and while I am not unhappy with Sony, I am very unhappy with Bill Gates. I've been eyeing the Mac Pro Book for some time. And I never fail to stop and talk to anyone who might be using one to get their opinion. I've NEVER gotten a bad response on the Mac (and I've asked a LOT of people). Everyone loves their Pro Books.

I can't wait to get one. Bill Gates has earned his last dime off of me.

Have you tried Windows 7? I wasn't "too" impressed with Vista, but I've not had any issues with it either.. however, Windows 7 improves on Vista so much that it's a well worthy upgrade. I'll be buying it the first day it comes out.. It's that good.

I guess one thing that I never understood, was that Apple has alot of style/taste and pizzazz in their offerings.. I seriously cant understand is how they make the bottom dock just float there, it doesnt blend into the OS very well.. Itself is very cool, but I think I might be getting tumors in my head when I look at how asthetically pleasing it isnt.

[berryite]

I am not just reposting what has already been said.

You said the statistics I posted were not useful because smartphones as a whole are skewed toward use by men, and iPhone sales just follow that skew. That may be true, but my point was that the iPhone adoption by women is not much different from smartphones as a whole, which indicates that even if Apple were actively marketing its phones to women, then it is not working very well

The iPhone is still a relatively new device and it's hard to determine what is working well and what is not as it relates to marketing as far as it is concerned. Sooooo much of the traditional smartphone market has been established by BlackBerry and Palm ... both of whom have been around for years ... that one cannot really measure Apple's long-term direction when they've not really been a player in the game for any real length of time. And put your marketing hat on for just a second and ask yourself if you wanted to maximize sales in a particular market such as this, whom would you most likely want to target? WOMEN obviously, it's the most target rich environment for growth. Men were early adopters of smartphones. Their behaviors and biases have already been established. I'm a guy. I use smartphones. It's gonna be reallllll hard for Apple to get me away from BlackBerry. BUT if you have a large segment of consumers (WOMEN) who are out there as potential buyers, and who have no pre-existing behaviors or biases and you want to maximize your sales, why wouldn't you engineer and market to this (women) the largest consumer group in the country?

If iPhone adoption by women was higher compared with smartphones overall, then it would be evidence that the iPhone is the smartphone of choice for women.

You're just guessing here. You have no data to support your claims. You don't know that the iPhone isn't quite actually already the direction women buyers are moving toward and you have no long-term insights into Apple's strategy to maximize their penetration into the untapped segment of yet-to-be converted women who may move to smartphones in the months and years ahead.

The author of the Forbes article seems to infer that Apple's "secret plan" is to target the device to maximize marketing with women and I for one see merit in her point and her conclusions. It also might be added that it makes good business sense.

[blue_and_bold]

If only Apple could start making cars for them to drive...

[berryite]

Have you tried Windows 7? I wasn't "too" impressed with Vista, but I've not had any issues with it either.. however, Windows 7 improves on Vista so much that it's a well worthy upgrade. I'll be buying it the first day it comes out.. It's that good.

I guess one thing that I never understood, was that Apple has alot of style/taste and pizzazz in their offerings.. I seriously cant understand is how they make the bottom dock just float there, it doesnt blend into the OS very well.. Itself is very cool, but I think I might be getting tumors in my head when I look at how asthetically pleasing it isnt.

I'm afraid Mr. Gates has burned his bridge with me. You could try and convince me that Windoze 7 may have been secretly designed by Jesus and the apostles and I'd probably not be a buyer. A case of "too little, too late." Godspeed to Bill Gates. He and I are done.

[mdude85]

You're just guessing here. You have no data to support your claims. You don't know that the iPhone isn't quite actually already the direction women buyers are moving toward and you have no long-term insights into Apple's strategy to maximize their penetration into the untapped segment of yet-to-be converted women who may move to smartphones in the months and years ahead.

The author of the Forbes article seems to infer that Apple's "secret plan" is to target the device to maximize marketing with women and I for one see merit in her point and her conclusions. It also might be added that it makes good business sense.

The little data that I have, is the data that I have to support my claims (on the other hand, you have no data to support your claims other than the supposition that your claim would make good business sense).

Did you even look at the data I posted? Even though only a small sample in just a few countries, it shows that among smartphone users, females are still no more likely to use an iPhone than male users compared to the overall population of smartphone users.

I was just making conjecture that if indeed the iPhone was the smartphone of choice for women compared with other smart phones, then it would be evidence that Apple might be appealing to women more than other electronics companies. But the data does not really reinforce it, so it's tough to say whether the iPhone is actually appealing to women or if the author of the article is just using a combination of stereotypes and anecdotal evidence to bolster her claims.

And yes, I agree, marketing to women would be a good idea, and smart business sense. I have no problem with that argument. The argument I do have an issue with is that Apple is intentionally "feminizing" its brand just because the company is making its products easier for people to use. Seems a little sexist to me, and I'm a guy.

[berryite]

Did you even look at the data I posted?

You've now rehashed the same data over and over and over. Kinda hard to miss it.

The argument that old and dated European sales numbers have some sort of relationship to master corporate strategy from Cupertino is just a complete non starter.

But thanks for your thoughts. I just get the feeling I could go around and around and around here and you'd just keep serving up the same unrelated stuff which really isn't going anywhere.

Have a good day.

[fastfinger]

Because of this thread I bought a tire tread case and I'm learning to type with my fist.. thanks

[berryite]

Because of this thread I bought a tire tread case and I'm learning to type with my fist.. thanks

LOL. A real manly iPhone user indeed!

[igorsky]

You know one of the cool things about living in NY is that it is great people-watching over here. Why? Because people don't really seem to give a ****. Everyone just follows their own beat, doing themselves so to speak. One of the things I have observed (and this is as a Blackberry user myself) is that as many if not more women use Blackberrys as men. The other thing I've noticed is that noticeably more men use iPhones than women. Just an observation that's probably meaningless outside of a thread like this.

But the point is that I'm describing the real world, which is infinitely more valuable than the experience of one writer for one magazine written for a particular type of upscale clientele, not to mention one forum member who gets off on agitating others.

[misterzeno225]

Why yes I do berry I think Apples marketing is some of the best there is. And this article is one persons opinion. Is that a response that's worthy?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[John Yester]

Okay back on topic!!!!!


We favor sensible discussion and debates on the forums but when it get's personal and just plain out rude and not adding anything to the topic at hand, then action has/will be taken. If the parties involved wish to discuss your other issues, please take it to PM and not on the public forum......

Any further off topic discussion the thread will remain locked. Final warning, clean it up.

[berryite]

Why yes I do berry I think Apples marketing is some of the best there is.

Excellent. I agree.

Now, several questions.

1.) Do you believe there is merit in the article's contention that Apple is secretly targeting women as iPhone adopters? If so, why? If not, why?

2.) What makes Apple's marketing as good as it is?

Not an iPhone issue per se, but I am a huge fan of their anti PC commercials. I think these are master pieces of advertising. You know the commercials I'm referring to? The ones where there's a hip guy who represents a Mac and a stoggy frumpy guy who represents a PC? These are just genius in advertising as far as I'm concerned. The commercial CLEARLY differentiates an Apple from a Microsoft box. Real product clarity. Something the auto manufacturers have tried for years to do and failed.

Insofar as iPhone advertising is concerned, I can't think of anything Apple does that is innovative or unique to really market this device.

Your thoughts?