[Skier1960]

Double post oops..

Thanks.

Nexus 5

[Skier1960]

Here in Canada I use my Visa with tap to pay. Will a Visa card holder in Canada be able to use Apple Pay, and does tap to pay use NFC? If that makes sense

Nexus 5

[app_Developer]

Here in Canada I use my Visa with tap to pay. Will a Visa card holder in Canada be able to use Apple Pay, and does tap to pay use NFC? If that makes sense

Nexus 5

Visa and MC (and Amex) are the payment networks that are part of this, but your bank needs to support this also. So as it gets rolled out to other countries, it will depend on your bank.

[walt63]

Its going to interesting to see if/how NFC payments takes off. I find it bizarre that banks/merchants are willing to pay Apple just for the convenience when Apple isn't needed to make this sort of technology happen. Im having a hard time fathoming that logic. Never known a business to give away money. Sooner or later, NFC payments will become a premium service with a cost. Merchants/banks are going to want that percentage to Apple back if millions buy into this.

[app_Developer]

Its going to interesting to see if/how NFC payments takes off. I find it bizarre that banks/merchants are willing to pay Apple just for the convenience when Apple isn't needed to make this sort of technology happen. Im having a hard time fathoming that logic.

My guess is that the reason you are finding it hard to fathom the logic is because you are ignoring the impacts of reducing risk and not having to share the transaction stream with a 3rd party. Here again you are talking about convenience and ignoring the other features of Apple Pay.

You can't understand why so many banks support this because you keep insisting that Apple has brought nothing new to the table. All I can say is that banks certainly disagree with you. Our leadership, including our board, decided more than a year ago to invest with Apple in this implementation.

Banks see the economic and strategic advantages that you keep refusing to accept even exist. So in order words, people who run huge banks, including technology leadership, looked at the options and chose to commit billions of dollars to this plan. And it wasn't just one or two banks, Apple is getting consistent agreement on this from our industry.

In fact, we all had experience with Google Wallet and Isis and advised Apple on how to make their system better for us and our customers.

It's possible all of us are just foolish and none of us understand our own business or the options we have available to us. I find that somewhat unlikely.

[jeffydude05]

�JPMorgan Chase has been pleased to collaborate on Apple Pay to create a better, faster and safer payments system, which puts the customer first, creating an exceptional customer experience for consumers and merchants. Everyone wins,� said Jamie Dimon, chairman and CEO, JPMorgan Chase & Co.

�We�re providing our customers with tools to make their financial lives better, including our 30 million digital banking customers,� said Brian Moynihan, CEO of Bank of America. �For them, better means simple and convenient. Apple Pay is another exciting move in that direction.�

�Apple Pay is the kind of innovative thinking that brings the worlds of online and offline commerce closer together,� said Ken Chenault, CEO of American Express. �We�re excited to work with Apple to offer Card Members and merchants a simple and secure way to make purchases in stores and on apps.�

[Mr.G_under]

Let's be honest.

Apple's implementation is far superior to anything else on the market. Because of them, a large number of retail outlets are going to be adopting the ability to use NFC to pay. BlackBerry hasn't really done anything intriguing with NFC. Even if they did, not many major brands would pay attention.

Now that Apple has brought NFC into the limelight, BlackBerry/Android can finally start using NFC payment methods at more retailers.

Let me guess, this is why BBM Money is being used in sub APAC countries. Some people just do not know what they speak off. Find facts then report rather than jumping on other mere assumptions and hear-say.

[robert_in_la]

Here in Canada I use my Visa with tap to pay. Will a Visa card holder in Canada be able to use Apple Pay, and does tap to pay use NFC? If that makes sense

Nexus 5

Apple Pay will only work on the US at launch.

Posted via CB10

[Glenn Biddle]

When the US merchants upgrade their terminals to tap and pay it's not like the only thing that will work on them is iPhones all they will be doing is upgrading their systems to international standards. Chip and pin tap and go we have had this in Canada and Europe for years the vast majority of people will continue to use their credit cards, some will use isis or whatever it will end up being called, some will use Google pay, and some will use apple pay. NFC is useful for more than just a payment system. The only ones getting screwed here are the people are the people who bought an iPhone over the past couple of years and were told that they didn't need NFC and will now be told that their phones are obsolete because their phones don't have it.

Posted via CB10

[JeepBB]

Fanbois don't care about security.

B10

I read this on CB all the time but sheer repetition doesn't make it true.

But even ignoring that fallacy, Banks care about security - are on the hook if fraud occurs - and they're all-in on Apple Pay. What does that tell you?

[Yatezy]

Great read from app_developer here! very informative posts. Personally I'm looking forward to Apple Pay pushing the technology forward, as a HTC user I still can't actually use my phone to pay for items over here in the UK even though it is NFC capable. There are plenty of NFC payment points as I have it on my card so use it as much as I can.

[BBPandy]

Someone who actually knows something about this topic chimes in with some useful info. How refreshing.

So, perhaps this isn't the same NFC method that some people here have been using for years but most people have never heard of. The banks are counting on replacing a lot of cash transactions - that's why they have made the investment in manpower and processes. Are they iSheep, too?

No Apple is timing this with an overall upgrade in the US of their banking terminals. By October 2015 US banks are required to upgrade to chip systems (like Canada & many companies did years ago) What Apple is saying is that when u upgrade all your terminals include our system

Posted via CB10

[walt63]

My guess is that the reason you are finding it hard to fathom the logic is because you are ignoring the impacts of reducing risk and not having to share the transaction stream with a 3rd party. Here again you are talking about convenience and ignoring the other features of Apple Pay.

You can't understand why so many banks support this because you keep insisting that Apple has brought nothing new to the table. All I can say is that banks certainly disagree with you. Our leadership, including our board, decided more than a year ago to invest with Apple in this implementation.

Banks see the economic and strategic advantages that you keep refusing to accept even exist. So in order words, people who run huge banks, including technology leadership, looked at the options and chose to commit billions of dollars to this plan. And it wasn't just one or two banks, Apple is getting consistent agreement on this from our industry.

In fact, we all had experience with Google Wallet and Isis and advised Apple on how to make their system better for us and our customers.

It's possible all of us are just foolish and none of us understand our own business or the options we have available to us. I find that somewhat unlikely.

How about you comment on the second part of my post. Will the mobile user eventually pay for this service? You kind of avoided that question twice since we've started talking. And we're talking about banks here...Wall St. It's always about making money. If they invest a penny, they want a $1 in return.

So be real, who's paying for the banks and merchants to pay Apple?

Posted via CB10

[Skier1960]

No Apple is timing this with an overall upgrade in the US of their banking terminals. By October 2015 US banks are required to upgrade to chip systems (like Canada & many companies did years ago) What Apple is saying is that when u upgrade all your terminals include our system

Posted via CB10

NFC is NFC. They will be using it like everyone else. They won't have to include "there system". Go back and read the thread.

Nexus 5

[Ohok]

...And Apple will be laughing all the way to the bank with 180 billion in revenue this year.

[app_Developer]

How about you comment on the second part of my post. Will the mobile user eventually pay for this service? You kind of avoided that question twice since we've started talking. And we're talking about banks here...Wall St. It's always about making money. If they invest a penny, they want a $1 in return.

So be real, who's paying for the banks and merchants to pay Apple?

Posted via CB10

Actually, if you read my earlier response to your question, I said very clearly that charging the user for this would violate several agreements and laws in several jurisdictions. Plus it's mechanically impossible anyway.

I will repeat this for a third time so it is crystal clear: banks are paying for this out of the interchange because it has economic value to us. Users will not pay any additional fee for this.

[Tkarps]

Oh the irony. Many Crackberry natives praise BlackBerry endlessly for their security, and call for a day of reckoning for all others, some going as far as hoping for massive security breaches. But when Apple is involved with creating a standard that, by all appearances, goes far beyond current security measures in the payment processing realm, it's met with insults and bickering about why it's even needed.

Can't we all take it as a win for technology and see it for what it is, furthering the game and making everything else better through adoption and competition?

I don't think the issue is that Apple came up with something useful. I think the problem is that they always make it so proprietary that no one else can take advantage of it. Apple Pay, really? Why not NFC+ or Secure NFC or anything else? This is what people are against, not innovation. They spent some time collaborating with banks that actually know what they want and then take credit for a whole industry and technology that has been around forever. It's annoying to anyone who can see past the fluff.

The other odd thing about this whole process is that from everything I've read it seems that the banks did most of the work and told Apple what was and wasn't working with all the other wallets / nfc pay systems. I don't think Apple came up with all of this just that the bank needed a large partner to take some of the hit $$$.

The proper way to have done this would have been to make some sort of consortium consisting of banks and many of the larger technology companies and mobile manufacturers. Together, using open standards, they would have come up with the same solution that benefits everyone.

This is a great step forward for NFC payments but it was done with a single partner that has shown time and time again not to play nice with others.

Shame on the banks for jumping on a bandwagon. Car manufacturers are doing this also.

Tim

Posted via CB10 app on my Q10

[Ohok]

I don't think the issue is that Apple came up with something useful. I think the problem is that they always make it so proprietary that no one else can take advantage of it. Apple Pay, really? Why not NFC+ or Secure NFC or anything else? This is what people are against, not innovation. They spent some time collaborating with banks that actually know what they want and then take credit for a whole industry and technology that has been around forever. It's annoying to anyone who can see past the fluff.

The other odd thing about this whole process is that from everything I've read it seems that the banks did most of the work and told Apple what was and wasn't working with all the other wallets / nfc pay systems. I don't think Apple came up with all of this just that the bank needed a large partner to take some of the hit $$$.

The proper way to have done this would have been to make some sort of consortium consisting of banks and many of the larger technology companies and mobile manufacturers. Together, using open standards, they would have come up with the same solution that benefits everyone.

This is a great step forward for NFC payments but it was done with a single partner that has shown time and time again not to play nice with others.

Shame on the banks for jumping on a bandwagon. Car manufacturers are doing this also.

Tim

Posted via CB10 app on my Q10

...And Blackberry have had NFC for how long, and what have they done with it? Why didn't they get the banks on board? This is why I don't understand people who bash Apple for not being apart of the "spec war." What good is it to add a specific element to a phone if there is no plan for its use, sort of like Samsung with their "heart rate monitor." Adding features just to say such is added to a phone, with little to no advantage of using it/support for the end user.

[app_Developer]

.

The other odd thing about this whole process is that from everything I've read it seems that the banks did most of the work and told Apple what was and wasn't working with all the other wallets / nfc pay systems. I don't think Apple came up with all of this just that the bank needed a large partner to take some of the hit $$$.

It's definitely not fair to say the banks did most of the work. We did a lot of work and brought a lot of ideas, but so did the payment networks and so did Apple.

The proper way to have done this would have been to make some sort of consortium consisting of banks and many of the larger technology companies and mobile manufacturers. Together, using open standards, they would have come up with the same solution that benefits everyone.

In theory I agree with you, but in practice that's how we ended up with Isis, the baby that no one loves. Design by committee. We cannot do this with the phone companies, and until Apple Pay leaked Google wasn't willing to go to war with the phone companies. They never are willing to do that until pushed.

This is a great step forward for NFC payments but it was done with a single partner that has shown time and time again not to play nice with others.

I agree with you on that, which is why we are actively working on Android solution. I'm sure Google will improve their system. They have no choice now but to fix Google Wallet. That will happen quickly, and I think most banks will be able to support a new and improved Wallet more easily because of all the work we already did to support Apple Pay.

Shame on the banks for jumping on a bandwagon. Car manufacturers are doing this also.

Testing this week shows us that users disagree. We'll see how people like it over the next year.

[walt63]

Actually, if you read my earlier response to your question, I said very clearly that charging the user for this would violate several agreements and laws in several jurisdictions. Plus it's mechanically impossible anyway.

I will repeat this for a third time so it is crystal clear: banks are paying for this out of the interchange because it has economic value to us. Users will not pay any additional fee for this.

Okay. You were clear on the surcharge. Buy not whether this will become a premium service that users will have to pay for. Example...Amazon Prime has a fee. In that fee, the user get free 2day shipping. Pretty much, you are paying for the shipping cost unless you order a lot of products that exceeds the cost of Amazon Prime.

So, I'll ask this way...will banks that are connected with Apple Pay charge a service fee. Right now, I can start a bank account for free. In the near future, will users have to pay for an account because their ability to use Apple Pay? Or will products purchased at Target be slightly marked up to keep the profit margins reasonable to what they were prior to Apple Pay?

And what's the economic value to us? How are we benefiting from this economically?

Posted via CB10

[Playbook007]

Are you sure about that? There are vending machines in NY with NFC. This week alone I've made tap purchases at CVS, grocery stores, Subway and McDonalds. MasterCard lists 100 active tap terminals in downtown Philly.

Using what device?

Posted via CB10

[app_Developer]

Okay. You were clear on the surcharge. Buy not whether this will become a premium service that users will have to pay for. Example...Amazon Prime has a fee. In that fee, the user get free 2day shipping. Pretty much, you are paying for the shipping cost unless you order a lot of products that exceeds the cost of Amazon Prime.

So, I'll ask this way...will banks that are connected with Apple Pay charge a service fee. Right now, I can start a bank account for free. In the near future, will users have to pay for an account because their ability to use Apple Pay? Or will products purchased at Target be slightly marked up to keep the profit margins reasonable to what they were prior to Apple Pay?

And what's the economic value to us? How are we benefiting from this economically?

Posted via CB10

What is the difference between a surcharge and a premium up charge versus a service charge? You're just asking the same question again, aren't you?

So User A buys a $100 item. User B buys the same $100 item.

User A uses his normal plastic card. User B uses her iPhone. They will both pay exactly the same amount. There will no additional charge (hidden or otherwise) to User B.

Absolutely no additional charge to the user to use Apple Pay instead of a plastic swipe or EMV. No charge either on a per transaction or a subscription basis.

Both the Apple Pay user and the plastic user will pay *exactly* the same amount with exactly the same terms from exactly the same account.

The economic value to banks again is:

1.) not having to share the transaction stream with a 3rd party. This is huge!

2.) the reduced risk of fraud and stolen cards.

3.) convenience of using our cards for small purchases versus the user using cash. (This is why we give people reward points and cash back in the first place. This is the exact same idea)

[early2bed]

The proper way to have done this would have been to make some sort of consortium consisting of banks and many of the larger technology companies and mobile manufacturers. Together, using open standards, they would have come up with the same solution that benefits everyone.

Well, they had plenty of time to do it before Apple came along so why didn't it work? I'm guessing that the consortium you propose is missing the customer.

And who better to make this happen then the company that makes technology easier for consumers?

And Apple Pay is a great name for it because is no mistaking whether it will work for you or not. "NFC+" sounds great until someone comes up with "NFC Premium" which accepts NFC Plus but adds other features. Pretty soon yours have a list of accepted formats just like you have Visa, MasterCard, Discover, diners club, American Express, Choice, is this a debit or credit card?

[app_Developer]

Using what device?

Posted via CB10

iPhone. We are in active testing still. That's public information.

[JeepBB]

What is the difference between a surcharge and a premium up charge versus a service charge? You're just asking the same question again, aren't you?

So User A buys a $100 item. User B buys the same $100 item.

User A uses his normal plastic card. User B uses her iPhone. They will both pay exactly the same amount. There will no additional charge to User B.

Absolutely no additional charge to the user to use Apple Pay instead of a plastic swipe or EMV.

Both the Apple Pay user and the plastic user will pay *exactly* the same amount.

The economic value to banks again is:

1.) not having to share the transaction stream with a 3rd party. This is huge!

2.) the reduced risk of fraud and stolen cards.

3.) convenience of using our cards for small purchases versus the user using cash. (This is why we give people reward points and cash back in the first place. This is the exact same idea)

I'm extremely impressed by the wealth of information you've provided in this thread. Thank you.

I'm equally impressed by your patience in calmly answering the same question, is it five times now?

Will we get to double figures for the question, I wonder?

Apple Pay seems to me to a win for everyone. Convenience and security for consumers, security and fraud protection for the financial institutions. My only concern would be in Apple establishing a lock over it all, but that concern is eased by your revelation that an Android version is likely. And, eventually, maybe even a WinPhone variant for my Lumia.