[robert_in_la]

Now, please understand that I am screamingly ignorant with respect to tech toys. Only recently I found out that Android has had a product similar to Apple Pay (Google wallet or Isis wallet, I think?) but I didn't know that Blackberry has had it built in their devices since 2011.

NFC Is the Not-So-New Kid on the Block | Inside BlackBerry

The things I learn in a day.

Although NFC protocols have been around for more than a decade Apple actually built a usable and uniformed system around it and got the backing of over 200 of the major lending institutions to jump on board with them. Which they all agreed to pay Apple a slight processing fee.

Don't have to agree with or like it but you'll see more NFC payment options with merchants because of them.

It's no different than when the auto industry around the world embraced iPod integration into their vehicles because they saw the demand from consumers for it.

So I'm not sure what's really funny about it as the only people laughing will be Apple... right to the bank.

[robert_in_la]

Can you elaborate exactly what they did un one day?


Posted from my powerful tool Z30.

Yes, they showed uniformity and a system using NFC that is actually backed by hundreds of lending institutions and merchants.

[robert_in_la]

i think the nfc payment platform is a standard, i really dont think any stores with an nfc/rfid payment capable atm would replace its current hardware for apple.

They don't have too. Apple just built a system around it - they obviously didn't invent the tech - that truly usable for the vast majority of people who have no idea what NFC is.

[app_Developer]

I understand how the NFC technology will be great and improve folks lives, but with all the security breaches and hacks going on lately. I have started to use cash at the major retailers, that's the best way to combat the hackers.

That is one way to do it, I'm not sure it's the right way for everyone. People like the convenience and record keeping that comes from electronic payments. People also like the 1.5% refund or equivalent value that is the norm now.

One cool thing about Apple Pay is I will no longer worry about Target or Home Depot type breaches. That's one source of headache gone. There's no reason for Amazon or Target or Home Depot to ever see my credit card number.

[Eumaeus]

app_Developer deserves some kind of award for (a) being super informative, and (b) not losing patience or temper with posters who would rather wage platform war than read carefully and learn.

There is one super popular straw man here: The notion that there are millions of people who believe (and care) that "Apple invented [some widely used technology] first." Along with this there is some notion that it violates universal Justice for a company to get credit (in the form of consumer $$s) for implementing very well something they did not invent.

Blackberry invented neither cellular communication, nor e-mail, nor keyboards. They were the king, back in the day, for implementing all of these extremely well at the right moment in history. Acquiring QNX (which BB did not invent) was smart because we are at the moment in history when there are truly compelling possibilities for smart technology in cars.

Here's what Apple did invent: a situation where they could go to major retailers and major financial institutions and say, "Our payment system, which will require a lot of work and expense on your part, will only work with hardware that no one has yet; but happily, unlike any of our competitors, we can virtually guarantee that tens of millions of people are going to have that new hardware within a year."

Once upon a time, Blackberry was the company who could have made that sales-pitch. It is really sad that they lost it, through sheer, arrogant complacency. Maybe they'll regain enough position to act on a grand scale like this; I am alternatively hopeful and pessimistic.

[TgeekB]

app_Developer deserves some kind of award for (a) being super informative, and (b) not losing patience or temper with posters who would rather wage platform war than read carefully and learn.

There is one super popular straw man here: The notion that there are millions of people who believe (and care) that "Apple invented [some widely used technology] first." Along with this there is some notion that it violates universal Justice for a company to get credit (in the form of consumer $$s) for implementing very well something they did not invent.

Blackberry invented neither cellular communication, nor e-mail, nor keyboards. They were the king, back in the day, for implementing all of these extremely well at the right moment in history. Acquiring QNX (which BB did not invent) was smart because we are at the moment in history when there are truly compelling possibilities for smart technology in cars.

Here's what Apple did invent: a situation where they could go to major retailers and major financial institutions and say, "Our payment system, which will require a lot of work and expense on your part, will only work with hardware that no one has yet; but happily, unlike any of our competitors, we can virtually guarantee that tens of millions of people are going to have that new hardware within a year."

Once upon a time, Blackberry was the company who could have made that sales-pitch. It is really sad that they lost it, through sheer, arrogant complacency. Maybe they'll regain enough position to act on a grand scale like this; I am alternatively hopeful and pessimistic.

Can't agree more.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[anon8656116]

So much apparent hurt because of an Apple solution. Who cares whether Apple is late to the party, their first priority is with their customers, not their competitors. Those millions of customers who will now have the benefit of a simple and secure payment solution, with the side effect that NFC payments may become even more widespread as a result. As a tech enthusiast, electronic payments is the one area where I think there is not much to learn about in my country. It’s dispersed, almost never used and just not very trustworthy to me. Apple made a really convincing case for its service and I hope that it catches on.

By the way, I thought that Apple was very modest about the ApplePay introduction and they did imply that NFC implementations like Google Wallet existed before. People here seem to have this misguided notion of ‘iSheep’ and put words into the general public’s mouth that Apple would always be called ‘innovative’. I suppose this bias makes people feel better about the lack of momentum for BlackBerry, despite it offering similar technologies before. As with Xerox and conversely Ford, if the company doesn’t get much attention by customers and the technology is not put to good use, no one cares who invented it. The execution and adoption is what matters.

// Edit

There is one super popular straw man here: The notion that there are millions of people who believe (and care) that "Apple invented [some widely used technology] first." Along with this there is some notion that it violates universal Justice for a company to get credit (in the form of consumer $$s) for implementing very well something they did not invent.

Blackberry invented neither cellular communication, nor e-mail, nor keyboards. They were the king, back in the day, for implementing all of these extremely well at the right moment in history. Acquiring QNX (which BB did not invent) was smart because we are at the moment in history when there are truly compelling possibilities for smart technology in cars.

Here's what Apple did invent: a situation where they could go to major retailers and major financial institutions and say, "Our payment system, which will require a lot of work and expense on your part, will only work with hardware that no one has yet; but happily, unlike any of our competitors, we can virtually guarantee that tens of millions of people are going to have that new hardware within a year."

Once upon a time, Blackberry was the company who could have made that sales-pitch. It is really sad that they lost it, through sheer, arrogant complacency. Maybe they'll regain enough position to act on a grand scale like this; I am alternatively hopeful and pessimistic.

Can’t add anything to this.

[app_Developer]

.

Here's what Apple did invent: a situation where they could go to major retailers and major financial institutions and say, "Our payment system, which will require a lot of work and expense on your part, will only work with hardware that no one has yet; but happily, unlike any of our competitors, we can virtually guarantee that tens of millions of people are going to have that new hardware within a year."
.

Interesting point about the device not existing! This was before we had even seen the iPhone 5S!

Fun times.

[Paintman321]

Laughable!
Blackberry Market share is less than 2% worldwide. what is 10% in Canada and 1% in the US? It will take off because Apple has market share and enough users to get banks and CC companies interested.

I think you miss understood it. In Canada all NFC payments that go through Bell, Telus or Rogers goes through BlackBerry's NOC regardless of the OS which is over 50% if you take out Apple.



Posted via CB10

[BigRob673]

Maybe now I'll be able to buy smart tags in the stores.

10,4 on the 10.3 good buddy....it may or may not have a squircle, it's to fast to tell.

[MmmHmm]

I've learned a lot from this thread. Cool.

[robert_in_la]

app_Developer deserves some kind of award for (a) being super informative, and (b) not losing patience or temper with posters who would rather wage platform war than read carefully and learn.

There is one super popular straw man here: The notion that there are millions of people who believe (and care) that "Apple invented [some widely used technology] first." Along with this there is some notion that it violates universal Justice for a company to get credit (in the form of consumer $$s) for implementing very well something they did not invent.

Blackberry invented neither cellular communication, nor e-mail, nor keyboards. They were the king, back in the day, for implementing all of these extremely well at the right moment in history. Acquiring QNX (which BB did not invent) was smart because we are at the moment in history when there are truly compelling possibilities for smart technology in cars.

Here's what Apple did invent: a situation where they could go to major retailers and major financial institutions and say, "Our payment system, which will require a lot of work and expense on your part, will only work with hardware that no one has yet; but happily, unlike any of our competitors, we can virtually guarantee that tens of millions of people are going to have that new hardware within a year."

Once upon a time, Blackberry was the company who could have made that sales-pitch. It is really sad that they lost it, through sheer, arrogant complacency. Maybe they'll regain enough position to act on a grand scale like this; I am alternatively hopeful and pessimistic.

An honest and unbiased posting that sums it up perfectly.

[Tkarps]

After reading all these posts I think I'll add my. 02 cents to all of this.

I see this happening all the time now with car manufacturers and I can't for the life of me undertand why you would want to alienate all your non Apple purchasers. In this case the banks and merchants are saying if you don't have an iphone you can't use ApplePay.

This will cause the same problem that banks have now with the carriers. Samsung will figure out what Apple is doing and create their own version of it. Windows and BlackBerry will also follow and in the end instead of having different apps to get the job done you'll have 3 or 4 different, but similar, technologies that the banks have to manage. This is not a streamlined approach and any business putting all their eggs on the Apple train should pray it doesn't derail.

I won't even start on the security aspect of all of this since my understanding is that this system will be tied into iTunes in some fashion. If I had to guess at a security breach it would be there.

Having said all this I think the system they have is far superior to regular NFC. Too bad no one can share in the effort.

Tim

Posted via CB10 app on my Q10

[early2bed]

The term "NFC" really means little more than virtual swiping, here. We are talking about completely different kinds of transactions, aren't we?

[andre3030]

You know how we've been waiting and begging and still waiting for basic banking apps to be offered for BB10?

Received this earlier today:


Attachment 297651


It hasn't even launched and banks are already hyping it up, while almost two years of actual users begging has achieved nothing for BB10.

The only one that can't stop laughing here is Apple.

Posted via CB10

Agreed, it's a shame really

Posted via CB10

[Bonsaibo]

After reading all these posts I think I'll add my. 02 cents to all of this.

I see this happening all the time now with car manufacturers and I can't for the life of me undertand why you would want to alienate all your non Apple purchasers. In this case the banks and merchants are saying if you don't have an iphone you can't use ApplePay.

This will cause the same problem that banks have now with the carriers. Samsung will figure out what Apple is doing and create their own version of it. Windows and BlackBerry will also follow and in the end instead of having different apps to get the job done you'll have 3 or 4 different, but similar, technologies that the banks have to manage. This is not a streamlined approach and any business putting all their eggs on the Apple train should pray it doesn't derail.

I won't even start on the security aspect of all of this since my understanding is that this system will be tied into iTunes in some fashion. If I had to guess at a security breach it would be there.

Having said all this I think the system they have is far superior to regular NFC. Too bad no one can share in the effort.

Tim

Posted via CB10 app on my Q10

Of course, what will most inevitably happen, is that the banking regulators will get involved, regulate the hell out of this, and either it will die (unlikely), or become commoditized (probable) and will be something that will be offered on all mobile platforms, simply to assure uniformity in availability for all consumers.

[anon6040766]

Sorry if this was mentioned, but in order for Apple Pay to work there are 2 things necessary. First, the credit card company must agree to Apple's Terms, etc. Second, retailers must update their POS (Point of Sale Card Readers). Some will hold out. Example: Walmart the largest US retailer has said it will not update its system while Target has said it will. So Apple Pay's success depends on more than the user. I'd never use it simply due to security reasons and yes I've read all the measures in place.

"Fly Eagles Fly" | White Q10 on VZW from Philly

[Blue787]

That's what I want to k ow as well, what exactly they did in one day

Posted via CrackBerry App

[app_Developer]

After reading all these posts I think I'll add my. 02 cents to all of this.

I see this happening all the time now with car manufacturers and I can't for the life of me undertand why you would want to alienate all your non Apple purchasers. In this case the banks and merchants are saying if you don't have an iphone you can't use ApplePay.

Everyone is looking for a good viable option for Android. We will find one. Hopefully this forces Google to fix Google Wallet so that it becomes a good option for more banks.

Then between Android and iOS you have almost everyone covered.

This will cause the same problem that banks have now with the carriers. Samsung will figure out what Apple is doing and create their own version of it. Windows and BlackBerry will also follow and in the end instead of having different apps to get the job done you'll have 3 or 4 different, but similar, technologies that the banks have to manage. This is not a streamlined approach and any business putting all their eggs on the Apple train should pray it doesn't derail.

None of that means we shouldn't support Apple. It just means Google needs to respond, and I'm sure they will. The others really don't matter so much at this point. Of course that may change in the future.

I won't even start on the security aspect of all of this since my understanding is that this system will be tied into iTunes in some fashion. If I had to guess at a security breach it would be there.

The iTunes team didn't design this. This was Apple working with experts from MasterCard, Visa, and major banks. Again, Apple will not have user's credit card numbers. And banks approved the system, not just Apple.

iTunes does have credit card numbers from before Apple Pay but that is a different issue.

Having said all this I think the system they have is far superior to regular NFC. Too bad no one can share in the effort.

Again, I am quite sure Google will respond with a better system of their own. Competition is a good thing.

[app_Developer]

Sorry if this was mentioned, but in order for Apple Pay to work there are 2 things necessary. First, the credit card company must agree to Apple's Terms, etc. Second, retailers must update their POS (Point of Sale Card Readers). Some will hold out. Example: Walmart the largest US retailer has said it will not update its system while Target has said it will. So Apple Pay's success depends on more than the user. I'd never use it simply due to security reasons and yes I've read all the measures in place.

You're confusing two different issues. Merchants do not need to update POS systems. What Target is upgrading is their app, which can also benefit from Apple Pay for online transactions. That's different from NFC tap transactions.

A nice benefit of Apple Pay is that it works online as well and is much, much smarter than entering your credit card numbers in an online checkout.

[gariac]

No....if someone stole my card, they still need my PIN to confirm the transaction. It's just like a ATM card, you cant withdraw cash without the PIN. So there's the security aspect of it.

Also, if the banks/merchants pay Apple pennies on the dollar, wouldn't they be losing money? I'm using my $100 to make a purchase. That's it. The bank/merchant pays (for ex. lets say 3%) to Apple for that transaction. That's $3 gone. Times that by, let's say 50,000 customers with Apple Pay = $150,000 to Apple. That seems pretty steep. Can we assume that the banks/merchants will surcharge the Apple Pay user to cover this cost?

The Apple cut is 0.15%. I believe that was on Forbes.

Personally, I would never want Apple in the loop. They suck at security. The Isis scheme had an extra level of security in theory because the service is coded in the simcard.

For a cellular carrier, security is a big deal. People stealing service is lost revenue. These cellular companies are substantially smarter than in the old analog days.

Security for Apple is a low priority. The fanbois buy their gear if secure or not. The effect of the Fappening is zero. Fanbois don't care about security.

Posted via CB10

[Skier1960]

The Apple cut is 0.15%. I believe that was on Forbes.

Personally, I would never want Apple in the loop. They suck at security. The Isis scheme had an extra level of security in theory because the service is coded in the simcard.

For a cellular carrier, security is a big deal. People stealing service is lost revenue. These cellular companies are substantially smarter than in the old analog days.

Security for Apple is a low priority. The fanbois buy their gear if secure or not. The effect of the Fappening is zero. Fanbois don't care about security.

Posted via CB10

"Fanbois don't care about security"

And you know that as fact???? Did you take a pole? Did you pull that out of your @&+?

Nexus 5

[Troy Tiscareno]

You're confusing two different issues. Merchants do not need to update POS systems. What Target is upgrading is their app, which can also benefit from Apple Pay for online transactions. That's different from NFC tap transactions.

Actually, merchants DO need to update their POS systems, at least, all of the vast majority in the US that don't have NFC terminals. Of course, they're going to do that anyway, since they're going to have to upgrade them to support "smartcard" credit cards, as credit card issuers are finally deprecating the magnetic stripe, given how insecure it is.

The relative few merchants who already have NFC won't need to upgrade their hardware, sure, but they are a small minority in the US.

[mornhavon]

Oh the irony. Many Crackberry natives praise BlackBerry endlessly for their security, and call for a day of reckoning for all others, some going as far as hoping for massive security breaches. But when Apple is involved with creating a standard that, by all appearances, goes far beyond current security measures in the payment processing realm, it's met with insults and bickering about why it's even needed.

Can't we all take it as a win for technology and see it for what it is, furthering the game and making everything else better through adoption and competition?

[app_Developer]

Actually, merchants DO need to update their POS systems, at least, all of the vast majority in the US that don't have NFC terminals. Of course, they're going to do that anyway, since they're going to have to upgrade them to support "smartcard" credit cards, as credit card issuers are finally deprecating the magnetic stripe, given how insecure it is.

The relative few merchants who already have NFC won't need to upgrade their hardware, sure, but they are a small minority in the US.

Yes, sorry, I meant that they don't need to upgrade to Apple Pay specifically.

But yes, NFC and EMV upgrades will still have to happen! This may even help to move that along a bit.