07-20-10 04:52 AM
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  1. weblou's Avatar
    Nice post. Please since you took the time to read and see my last 30 or 40 posts you would see that I did not mention any thing negative nor got involved in any Iphone bashing. Maybe I maid a joke about something's but that was a joke. In fact you would see most of my post are about telling people there's no need to whine and have a choice to return there device. You would also see I have a 3GS and planing on getting the 4 once in canada.
    So please tell me when did I complain about the Iphone 4? When was I loud and vocal about the antenna issues? All I said is that apple dropped the ball on this one by mentioning other companies ..... Is that being loud and Vocal???
    At the office I have an Imac, macbook pro, and we use Ipad's for when we can't be in front of our computers for any reason. I had an iphone 3G and still have 3GS that I plan on selling once the 4 comes.... So I have no right to be here?? Or you only want people to post positive thing about apple?
    And my post maid no reference to how my Iphone drops bars and my 9700 doesn't. So your question was irrelevant to my post... Since my post was about Apple mentioning other companies.
    No need to fight why can't we all just be friends

    Because I have both devices and can test this
    myself. Honestly, I don't understand why any-
    one without the device or doesn't plan on even
    getting the device is worried so much? It is
    very funny to me... and actually seems as
    though you're the "hurt" one. I don't have or
    use windows mobile anymore, so you'll never
    catch me constantly going into a winMo forum
    consistently (almost seems as much if not
    more than your current device) and pointing
    out so called "issues". Over 30, darn near 40
    of your last posts are about Apple and the
    iPhone. In fact, you will never catch me in
    one of those forums, let alone pointing out
    negatives with all my free time on the net.

    Why would I be hurt? I have a BB, Pre and
    Nexus One, so the "Did my post offend you"
    need not apply to me as I could care less about
    one phone or company... I use what works and
    what I like at the moment. In fact, one device
    that I always have and use is a BlackBerry,
    currently a 9700.

    I was actually asking as it sounded like you had
    the device and could not replicate it on YOUR
    9700 as (I thought) you did on an iPhone (that
    I thought you actually owned). It was my fault
    in ASSuming that someone who can comment so
    much about flaws on a device does not currently
    own one, but seems to be louder and more vocal
    than those who actually own it.
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-18-10 06:18 PM
  2. Entertainment72's Avatar
    Regular attenuation from holding the device has been shown to be slightly worse than other devices, but the problem is that touching the iPhone 4 at the black mark has been shown over and over to completely block data transfer and drop calls. Data transfers can recover from intermittent blocks, but calls are dropped because they require a persistent connection.
    Synthmole, so this happens with your iPhone 4 a lot?
    Last edited by Entertainment72; 07-18-10 at 06:26 PM.
    07-18-10 06:23 PM
  3. sivan's Avatar
    I have no seen "shown over and over again." Ive seen MAYBE a dozen youtube videos, but thats hardly a large percent of the 3 million sold.

    Even if it was 1000 people who could get a call to drop, its still statistically insignificant.
    Those are the reported cases, of those who bothered to create a video and upload to YouTube. Here is a clear and repeatable Cnet test that demonstrate complete blocking of voice when touching the black mark (though not long enough to drop the call):

    iPhone 4 antenna tests - CNET News

    It couldn't be any more obvious.
    07-18-10 06:26 PM
  4. sivan's Avatar
    Synthmole, so this happens with your iPhone 4 a lot?
    I don't own an iPhone 4.
    07-18-10 06:27 PM
  5. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Indeed. Regular attenuation from holding the device has been shown to be slightly worse than other devices, but the problem is that touching the iPhone 4 at the black mark has been shown over and over to completely block data transfer and drop calls. Data transfers can recover from intermittent blocks, but calls are dropped because they require a persistent connection.
    I think you're either exaggerating or misinformed or trying to mislead. Touching the dead zone does not "completely stop data transfer and block calls." It could possibly do that if you are in a bad reception area, but if you are not, nothing will happen. If you don't touch the spot, reception is better than any previous iPhone. Please read the complete Anandtech report to get a better understanding of the problem.
    Last edited by Roo Zilla; 07-18-10 at 06:57 PM. Reason: used "your" instead of "you're"
    07-18-10 06:35 PM
  6. sookster54's Avatar
    There's a few youtube videos this weekend in response to Jobs' pointing out the "death grip" causing the antenna problem on phones other than the iPhone and wix0ne is one of them and his 5 bars never dropped once in 3 minutes of gripping the 9700.
    07-18-10 06:38 PM
  7. sivan's Avatar
    I think your either exaggerating or misinformed or trying to mislead. Touching the dead zone does not "completely stop data transfer and block calls." It could possibly do that if you are in a bad reception area, but if you are not, nothing will happen. If you don't touch the spot, reception is better than any previous iPhone. Please read the complete Anandtech report to get a better understanding of the problem.
    I am not misleading anyone. Your post is incoherent: you deny that touching the dead zone completely stops data transfer and drops calls. And then you contradict yourself by saying that it actually would happen in a low signal area.

    I accept that it would be more likely to happen in a low signal area. Unfortunately with AT&T this is often the case.
    07-18-10 06:45 PM
  8. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    I had a conversation earlier with a good friend of mine and this may perhaps put a little perspective on how most people see this problem. He's not a techie by any means, I had to go over to his house to help him set up is Wifi network because he bought a new router earlier this year.

    Him: Hey, what do you think about the new iPhone, I'm thinking of ordering one.

    Me: It's real nice, but there's a problem with it.

    Him: What's the problem?

    Me: If you touch a small spot near the bottom of the phone, it might drop calls if you have bad reception.

    Him: What if I don't touch the spot?

    Me: It'll be fine.

    Him: Ok, so I won't touch the spot.

    Me: Get one for your hot girlfriend too so I can Facetime with her.

    Him: What's Facetime?

    Me: Forget it.

    I think for most people, it's not that big a deal. I mean really, are there people out there who are going to purposefully touch the spot to try and make their calls drop?
    07-18-10 06:49 PM
  9. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    I am not misleading anyone. Your post is incoherent: you deny that touching the dead zone completely stops data transfer and drops calls. And then you contradict yourself by saying that it actually would happen in a low signal area.

    I accept that it would be more likely to happen in a low signal area. Unfortunately with AT&T this is often the case.
    I think you understood me fine, as did others.
    07-18-10 06:49 PM
  10. stuaw11's Avatar
    Those are the reported cases, of those who bothered to create a video and upload to YouTube. Here is a clear and repeatable Cnet test that demonstrate complete blocking of voice when touching the black mark (though not long enough to drop the call):

    iPhone 4 antenna tests - CNET News

    It couldn't be any more obvious.
    So then your answer is no, there are no scientific tests or other evidence that can reproduce a dropped call every time touching the spot. As you just stated yourself the Cnet test is irrelevant here to this discussion as they couldnt get the calls to drop.

    Dont try to talk your way around the answer, just answer it. As I said, there are FEW reported cases of call drops and ATT stats say its right in line with the 3GS for number of dropped calls. Hence the ONLY real data out there on dropped calls is it isnt happening any more than the old iphones, spot or not.

    Again, even if 1000 people DID report it out of 3 million, is statistically insignificant. There cant be this mass call dropping problem touching the metal if no one is reporting it happening. That's merely a conclusion without evidence to support that conclusion.

    And admittedly you dont even have the phone to report such a problem either.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 07-18-10 at 07:04 PM.
    07-18-10 06:56 PM
  11. weblou's Avatar
    Hahaha on the gf part lol.
    But your totaly right we seem to think that everyone knows what we know about cell phones. Most of the consumers never even read any tech bloggs or join any forums.

    I had a conversation earlier with a good friend of mine and this may perhaps put a little perspective on how most people see this problem. He's not a techie by any means, I had to go over to his house to help him set up is Wifi network because he bought a new router earlier this year.

    Him: Hey, what do you think about the new iPhone, I'm thinking of ordering one.

    Me: It's real nice, but there's a problem with it.

    Him: What's the problem?

    Me: If you touch a small spot near the bottom of the phone, it might drop calls if you have bad reception.

    Him: What if I don't touch the spot?

    Me: It'll be fine.

    Him: Ok, so I won't touch the spot.

    Me: Get one for your hot girlfriend too so I can Facetime with her.

    Him: What's Facetime?

    Me: Forget it.

    I think for most people, it's not that big a deal. I mean really, are there people out there who are going to purposefully touch the spot to try and make their calls drop?
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-18-10 06:57 PM
  12. sivan's Avatar
    I had a conversation earlier with a good friend of mine and this may perhaps put a little perspective on how most people see this problem. He's not a techie by any means, I had to go over to his house to help him set up is Wifi network because he bought a new router earlier this year.

    Him: Hey, what do you think about the new iPhone, I'm thinking of ordering one.

    Me: It's real nice, but there's a problem with it.

    Him: What's the problem?

    Me: If you touch a small spot near the bottom of the phone, it might drop calls if you have bad reception.

    Him: What if I don't touch the spot?

    Me: It'll be fine.

    Him: Ok, so I won't touch the spot.

    Me: Get one for your hot girlfriend too so I can Facetime with her.

    Him: What's Facetime?

    Me: Forget it.

    I think for most people, it's not that big a deal. I mean really, are there people out there who are going to purposefully touch the spot to try and make their calls drop?
    Well, it's obvious that people are willing to tolerate dropped calls, as they have for 3 years now, use bumpers or try holding it differently. But all these things detract from the product for prospective buyers, and I'm one such prospective buyer after all.

    If it has to be used in a case, then it's really a lot thicker and less appealing than competing devices and it's misleading to continue marketing it using slick photos of a naked iPhone. And if it needs to be held in a specific manner that is different than what phone users expect, that also needs to be explained upfront.

    The entire iPhone on AT&T package is problematic. People are paying for service and suffer from dropped calls. Clearly, many consumers bought the phone from AT&T and are now in a contract. Can you honestly say they got a square deal?
    07-18-10 07:00 PM
  13. sivan's Avatar
    So then your answer is no, there are no scientific tests or other evidence that can reproduce a dropped call every time touching the spot. As you just stated yourself the Cnet test is irrelevant here to this discussion as they couldnt get the calls to drop.

    Dont try to talk your way around the answer, just answer it. As I said, there are FEW reported cases of call drops and ATT stats say its right in line with the 3GS for number of dropped calls. Hence the ONLY real data out there on dropped calls is it isnt happening any more than the old iphones, spot or not.
    LOL, you're just lawyering your way around this. The only proper reaction to that test on the video is "yikes".
    07-18-10 07:03 PM
  14. stuaw11's Avatar
    I think you're either exaggerating or misinformed or trying to mislead. Touching the dead zone does not "completely stop data transfer and block calls." It could possibly do that if you are in a bad reception area, but if you are not, nothing will happen. If you don't touch the spot, reception is better than any previous iPhone. Please read the complete Anandtech report to get a better understanding of the problem.
    Of course, its not just the iphone 4 either. If you "death grip" a phone with 1 bar in a low service area and it attenuates giving 0 bars then its the same thing.

    Most of this complaining is exaggeration of the truth anyways, mostly by people who dont even own the device to begin with to have any experience with it happening.
    07-18-10 07:06 PM
  15. stuaw11's Avatar
    LOL, you're just lawyering your way around this. The only proper reaction to that test on the video is "yikes".
    Excuses.

    you posted youself next to the link they couldnt get the call to drop. What were we discussing? Calls dropping. Thus the link means nothing towards dropped calls. No one sits there and says oh man I only have 2 bars instead of 4, geez this sucks (let alone when youre on a call the phone is on your cheek and youll never see any bar fluctuation anyways). If the phone works and doesnt drop the call it works.

    Its not lawyering its common sense. You dont make a conclusion without some kind of supporting proof of such. And a dozen or so youtube videos is not support for 3 million iphone users all having the issue. Well then what do you say about the few videos of the 9700 attenuating then? If theyre support enough for the iphone problem, then theyre fairly enough to say there's an equal 9700 attenuation problem. But again, that conclusion is unfounded from a slim few experiences.

    The only proper reaction is if you actually own the phone and have an issue, otherwise you have nothing to gripe about.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 07-18-10 at 07:14 PM.
    07-18-10 07:08 PM
  16. sivan's Avatar
    Of course, its not just the iphone 4 either. If you "death grip" a phone with 1 bar in a low service area and it attenuates giving 0 bars then its the same thing.
    Again, you don't need a death grip with the iPhone 4, just touching it in that are is enough. Even a natural holding position will often touch that area, a finger on it it is enough.
    07-18-10 07:09 PM
  17. sivan's Avatar
    Excuses.

    you posted youself next to the link they couldnt get the call to drop. What were we discussing? Calls dropping. Thus the link means nothing towards dropped calls.

    Its not lawyering its common sense. You dont make a conclusion without some kind of supporting proof of such. And a dozen or so youtube videos is not support for 3 million iphone users all having the issue.
    Did the test demonstrate that the voice was cut off once the black mark was touched, yes or no? How do you explain that if there is no problem?
    07-18-10 07:12 PM
  18. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Well, it's obvious that people are willing to tolerate dropped calls, as they have for 3 years now, use bumpers or try holding it differently. But all these things detract from the product for prospective buyers, and I'm one such prospective buyer after all.

    If it has to be used in a case, then it's really a lot thicker and less appealing than competing devices and it's misleading to continue marketing it using slick photos of a naked iPhone. And if it needs to be held in a specific manner that is different than what phone users expect, that also needs to be explained upfront.

    The entire iPhone on AT&T package is problematic. People are paying for service and suffer from dropped calls. Clearly, many consumers bought the phone from AT&T and are now in a contract. Can you honestly say they got a square deal?
    Here is how it is for me. I've been using versions of iPhone for a little over 2 years since I moved away from T-Mobile and Blackberry. I probably use my phone more than most, I go through about 5000-6000 minutes in any given month. I drop calls every day. I can't remember a day when I haven't dropped a call since I've had an iPhone. I'm one of those who have never believed that the dropped calls was an AT&T problem. My friends on AT&T who don't use iPhone have never had dropped call problems, so I've always assumed it's the phone.

    Furthermore, I have never used a case with my phones and when my iPhone 4 arrives, I don't plan to use one either, even if they give me one for free. It's not so much the aesthetic of the phone, I like my phones thin as possible since it's always in my pocket.

    Here are the issues I have had with iPhones over the years:

    1) dropped calls
    2) lousy speakerphone
    3) lack of features (things like copy paste, stereo bluetooth) although most have been addressed by now.
    4) slow responsiveness after jailbreaking (this was with iPhone 3G) so had to unjailbreak it.
    5) Wifi cuts out when I touch the upper right corner.
    6) crappy battery life.

    iPhone's not perfect, not by any means. There are probably other issues I'm forgetting at the moment. I stick with it though, because it does a lot of other crap that makes it worthwhile.

    It's all a tradeoff. You have to decide what's important to you. If dropped calls drive you crazy, iPhone was never meant for you. For me, it's annoying, but it takes me less than 2 seconds to call somebody back. If bad battery life is a concern, again, iPhone is not for you. If you need an LED notification on your phone, again, iPhone not for you. Anybody who has had an iPhone and couldn't suffer these problems (or others), they have left the platform already.

    As for whether I get a square deal from AT&T/Apple. Again, it's up to the consumer. They can try it out, and if it sucks for them, they can take it back. For me personally, it's obviously ok. I can get service from Boost Mobile for like $50 a month that gives me unlimited talk, text, and internet, but they don't have iPhone, so I pay an additional $70 a month to use it. I vote with my money, and despite all the problems, AT&T/Apple has my vote.
    Last edited by Roo Zilla; 07-18-10 at 07:22 PM.
    07-18-10 07:17 PM
  19. sivan's Avatar
    The only proper reaction is if you actually own the phone and have an issue, otherwise you have nothing to gripe about.
    This is not Apple's support forum or Apple Care. It's a discussion forum on the Internet.

    I am not griping, I am discussing a problem with the iPhone 4. I don't need to own one to discuss it. I can tell you one thing: it is always, always, wrong to stifle discussion no matter what your position is.
    07-18-10 07:18 PM
  20. stuaw11's Avatar
    Did the test demonstrate that the voice was cut off once the black mark was touched, yes or no? How do you explain that if there is no problem?
    So if someone can grip a 9700 and get it break up a call one time on video does that equally lead to the conclusion there is a 9700 issue as well? Further I didnt see the call drop in that video, please show where it disconnected. I heard some garble but thats about it. They also didnt even show how many bars he had on the call to begin with. No one has denied when youre in a low signal area attenuation could cause call disruption, it happens on all phones. If youve never experienced even a second of garble on a cellular, then youre in clear denial. But I still have yet to see placing your finger on this magical spot every single time no fail makes the call drop out and disconnect every time, or even near an astounding rate.

    Furthermore, this video evidence also states that gripping it didnt drop it from 5 bars. Does that mean there's no attenuation problem at all because one video said so?


    Using one piece of video with one person and one phone in one spot of the country in a non-scientific test to show a problem on 3 million devices out there is highly illogical.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 07-18-10 at 07:25 PM.
    07-18-10 07:19 PM
  21. Duvi's Avatar
    Nice post. Please since you took the time to read and see my last 30 or 40 posts you would see that I did not mention any thing negative nor got involved in any Iphone bashing. Maybe I maid a joke about something's but that was a joke. In fact you would see most of my post are about telling people there's no need to whine and have a choice to return there device. You would also see I have a 3GS and planing on getting the 4 once in canada.
    So please tell me when did I complain about the Iphone 4? When was I loud and vocal about the antenna issues? All I said is that apple dropped the ball on this one by mentioning other companies ..... Is that being loud and Vocal???
    At the office I have an Imac, macbook pro, and we use Ipad's for when we can't be in front of our computers for any reason. I had an iphone 3G and still have 3GS that I plan on selling once the 4 comes.... So I have no right to be here?? Or you only want people to post positive thing about apple?
    And my post maid no reference to how my Iphone drops bars and my 9700 doesn't. So your question was irrelevant to my post... Since my post was about Apple mentioning other companies.
    No need to fight why can't we all just be friends



    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    By all means, stay, I was just saying you
    won't catch me commenting so much
    about something I don't currently hold.

    So the "hold it the wrong way" or "bumper"
    jokes (as you call it) would not have come
    from me until I had the device.

    And my statement was honestly for a lot
    of people; pretty much anyone who fits
    that description.

    Edit: And yes I do realize and remember you
    wondering about the 3GS vs. i4 and the
    difference in speed... I may have been either
    1st or 2nd to comment.
    07-18-10 07:24 PM
  22. sivan's Avatar
    So if someone can grip a 9700 and get it break up a call one time on video does that equally lead to the conclusion there is a 9700 issue as well? Further I didnt see the call drop in that video, please show where it disconnected. I heard some garble but thats about it. They also didnt even show how many bars he had on the call to begin with. No one has denied when youre in a low signal area attenuation could cause call disruption, it happens on all phones. But I still have yet to see placing your finger on this magical spot every single time no fail makes the call drop out every time, or even near an astounding rate.

    Furthermore, this video evidence also states that gripping it didnt drop it from 5 bars. Does that mean there's no attenuation problem at all because one video said so?


    Using one piece of video with one person and one phone in one spot of the country in a non-scientific test to show a problem on 3 million devices out there is highly illogical.
    I'd be very interested to learn that the 9700 had such a problem but obviously we haven't heard anything so far. You insist that this is a case of mass delusion afflicting the media and the public, based on what evidence?
    07-18-10 07:29 PM
  23. stuaw11's Avatar
    I'd be very interested to learn that the 9700 had such a problem but obviously we haven't heard anything so far. You insist that this is a case of mass delusion afflicting the media and the public, based on what evidence?
    Based on the fact the its 99% media hype and little real information.

    Bars mean nothing if you can hold the call, all they do is represent the signal strength in dB. And I have yet to see any mass issue with calls being disconnected outside of a few cases where signal strength was already low. ATT's released stats say its on par with the 3GS dropped call rate per 100 calls. There's no statistical data of anything otherwise.

    So if people are really THAT concerned about being at 2 bars vs 4 lets say, then they have more issues than just this "antennagate" one.
    07-18-10 07:33 PM
  24. sivan's Avatar
    Here is how it is for me. I've been using versions of iPhone for a little over 2 years since I moved away from T-Mobile and Blackberry. I probably use my phone more than most, I go through about 5000-6000 minutes in any given month. I drop calls every day. I can't remember a day when I haven't dropped a call since I've had an iPhone. I'm one of those who have never believed that the dropped calls was an AT&T problem. My friends on AT&T who don't use iPhone have never had dropped call problems, so I've always assumed it's the phone.

    Furthermore, I have never used a case with my phones and when my iPhone 4 arrives, I don't plan to use one either, even if they give me one for free. It's not so much the aesthetic of the phone, I like my phones thin as possible since it's always in my pocket.

    Here are the issues I have had with iPhones over the years:

    1) dropped calls
    2) lousy speakerphone
    3) lack of features (things like copy paste, stereo bluetooth) although most have been addressed by now.
    4) slow responsiveness after jailbreaking (this was with iPhone 3G) so had to unjailbreak it.
    5) Wifi cuts out when I touch the upper right corner.
    6) crappy battery life.

    iPhone's not perfect, not by any means. There are probably other issues I'm forgetting at the moment. I stick with it though, because it does a lot of other crap that makes it worthwhile.

    It's all a tradeoff. You have to decide what's important to you. If dropped calls drive you crazy, iPhone was never meant for you. For me, it's annoying, but it takes me less than 2 seconds to call somebody back. If bad battery life is a concern, again, iPhone is not for you. If you need an LED notification on your phone, again, iPhone not for you. Anybody who has had an iPhone and couldn't suffer these problems (or others), they have left the platform already.

    As for whether I get a square deal from AT&T/Apple. Again, it's up to the consumer. They can try it out, and if it sucks for them, they can take it back. For me personally, it's obviously ok. I can get service from Boost Mobile for like $50 a month that gives me unlimited talk, text, and internet, but they don't have iPhone, so I pay an additional $70 a month to use it. I vote with my money, and despite all the problems, AT&T/Apple has my vote.
    Yes, we're been through this before and I understand your choice. Like I said, someone might care a lot certain about apps or services that work best or solely with the iPhone, or having a smooth video streaming experience, Apple Lossless codec with them, even if they drop calls. I understand this point.

    But this discussion is about the iPhone 4's antenna. Does it or does it not have a problem is what we are discussing. I'm sure there will be those who will take it even with the problems. The difference between you and stuaw11, is that he is alternately denying the problem and suggesting ways to live with it.
    07-18-10 07:36 PM
  25. stuaw11's Avatar
    LOL

    I have never denied there was a problem; just that it is not as serious as the media and some here make it to be.

    If youre not dropping calls then where is the problem? Because the bars moved from 4 to 2? Sounds more like OCD then a real true issue with the phone working.

    There's never been a denial that there's attenuation/bar loss going on. But there is also zero proof it happens on every phone every time, or that calls are dropping at any alarming rate. There's also videos of other phones losing bars, there's videos of iphone 4's not losing any bars, there's videos of the iphone 4 losing a few bars, there's a slim few videos of the ippone dropping a call when touching the spot.

    Nothing even close to conclusive.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 07-18-10 at 07:45 PM.
    07-18-10 07:39 PM
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