07-20-10 04:52 AM
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  1. stuaw11's Avatar
    There is a difference between holding your phone normally in one spot and seeing the signal drop and trying to duplicate this signal drop by squeezing the life out of your phone. I played with a couple iphone 4 devices. They are beautiful and perform many things well. They also have a design flaw with their antenna that other phones do not have.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    No one is "squeezing the life out of their phones." Its all about how each INDIVIDUAL holds their own phone whether they have the problem or not.

    On the 9700 its at the bottom, on the iphone 4 its the bottom left, on the Droid Eris its the top. Its all about how you personally hold the phone.

    Not everyone will see the same results as everyone holds it differently.

    Again, I cant replicate the behavior on my 9700 and 3GS (even with a thick candyshell case on) holding it around the bottom even very lightly. Its all about where you place your hand normally for you. Could Apple have done it better or coated the metal? Sure. But that doesnt mean mostly every phone has its spot where if you hold it youll see attenuation case or not. Your hand is shielding/covering the antenna and your body absorbs radiation naturally, which radio waves are. So of course youll see at least some attenuation. You cant defy the laws of physics here on any device unless you have dual antennas at the top and bottom and then you cant really cover both fully.

    It all depends how that person normally holds their device- there is no right way for everyone
    Last edited by stuaw11; 07-17-10 at 01:37 PM.
    07-17-10 01:32 PM
  2. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Agreed. Steve just flipped the switch on everyone else, and now anyone who saw or read about the conference might think differently before buying any smartphone. The man can make you believe anything. Good thing his effect doesn't work on me, but for the masses, it does.
    Here's the best part, how many websites are having polls about other phones doing the same thing? Helluvalot. How many of those polls are going to show some percentage of other phones exhibiting the same behavior? All of them. This is what's going to stick in people's minds. It's crazy, he gets other people to do his work for him.
    07-17-10 01:33 PM
  3. stuaw11's Avatar
    Here's the best part, how many websites are having polls about other phones doing the same thing? Helluvalot. How many of those polls are going to show some percentage of other phones exhibiting the same behavior? All of them. This is what's going to stick in people's minds. It's crazy, he gets other people to do his work for him.
    Yeh but to be fair people were looking at other devices even before Job's presentation, just maybe not as closely as when its shown by Jobs himself on stage. I think its fair to say other devices exhibit similar behavior sometimes, but people just like to deny it in an attempt to bash Apple like its unique to the. Afterall, its always the top dog who has the most media exposure by far who takes the most heat from everyone else.
    07-17-10 01:37 PM
  4. grover5's Avatar
    I think y'all are going a little overboard with your admiration for the brilliance of Steve Jobs and his press conference. At any right stuaw11 I think we will have to agree to disagree. In my opinion the iphone 4 has a design flaw that is not present in other phones.
    07-17-10 01:50 PM
  5. avt123's Avatar
    Here's the best part, how many websites are having polls about other phones doing the same thing? Helluvalot. How many of those polls are going to show some percentage of other phones exhibiting the same behavior? All of them. This is what's going to stick in people's minds. It's crazy, he gets other people to do his work for him.
    Yup. The guy is ridiculous. He is also a ********* and the Antichrist.
    07-17-10 02:16 PM
  6. weblou's Avatar
    On my 9700 I never dropped a call. I don't care what jobs says but never happened to my 9700. I tried to replicate the issue after seeing the conference and couldn't get it to drop.... People need to remember that no one was talking about this before "Jobs" mentioned it could happen on other devices. So that alone shows that even if you managed to drop a bar or 2 holding your device it was never an issue till the Iphone 4.
    I think it was a bad move for apple to mention/show other devices doing this. I could just see other companies advertising there next phone models as able to make calls lol.
    RIM already went online saying that it's clients don't need a case to use there phones.
    And for all those that admire jobs... Even you have to admit the he dropped the ball on this one

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by TheBBman; 07-17-10 at 02:29 PM.
    07-17-10 02:26 PM
  7. sookster54's Avatar
    At my house the bars on my BB goes up and down alot but when I'm out in the open (away from the mountains and woods) it sits at 5 bars and doesn't budge no matter hwo I move it. I caught his calling out other phones as well and sort of ignored it at first but yeah... I haven't heard of any BB having that issue that he was talking about. My sister hasin't had any issues with her 9700. *shrug*
    07-17-10 05:30 PM
  8. sookster54's Avatar
    There are times when I think Steve Jobs isn't really that great a PR guy. Then he comes along and shows a couple videos and pretty much through smoke and mirrors gets RIM, Motorola, and Nokia to issue comments. Good Lord people, don't you see what's happened? The blogosphere and news pundits are now all talking about free bumpers and how RIM, Moto, and Nokia responded. With an hour long press conference, he's pretty killed the story in one fell swoop and made people start talking about other companies. How many sites have commented on the videos he showed? Only every tech site in the known universe. This was Steve Job's plan all along, put everybody else in the same boat in the minds of the general public. Now when you think smartphone, you can't help but think about those other videos and the defensive comments released by the other companies. There really is a reality distortion field around that guy.
    The Jedi mind trick, a pretty effective strategy if done right.
    07-17-10 05:39 PM
  9. artisticme's Avatar
    Unfortunately for the Apple haters out there other phones DO exhibit similar behavior. Maybe not as visible because of the algorithm Apple used and then changed, but it still exists.

    There are lots of posts on various sites of people with 9700's, HTC devices, etc who tried it and are able to replicate it. Again, maybe not as much loss in terms of "bars" but every manufacturer uses a different algorithm so its not an apples to apples comparison per say. BUT the behavior DOES exist outside the iphone.

    Now, before you posts "but but my BB doesnt do that, BB FTW!" consider that not all iphone 4's are showing the behavior as well, just like not all HTC's or BB's etc. It will depends on your coverage area, etc. It really depends what dB youre sitting at and the algorithm of how the bars are displayed- the dB cutoff range for each bar displayed

    If you cant admit other people can replicate this on other types of phones then you are too blinded by your fanaticism of your own device to see the reality. Could Apple have handled it better? Sure of course. BUT I think a free case is quite a good gesture by a company who sold 3 million in about 3 weeks, and still have huge waiting lists and didnt really HAVE to offer anything as sales are still going strong and returns are still extremely low.

    I personally think Jobs was ok in pointing out other phones doing it. People are ripping the iphone 4 like its the only phone ever to see this kind of behavior and the uneducated people about tech simply believe the media at face value who simply regurgitate each others story. If you dont think businesses point out each other's flaws, then you havent been around much or know much about marketing/advertising because you see it daily.

    I find RIM's response a little absurd when there are TONS of reports of being able to replicate this, at least on the new Bold series (Can you make your current phone lose signal depending on how you hold it? Boy Genius Report as one example). Search youtube and the web and youll see plenty of undeniable video evidence of such. Global leading antenna design my ****, it exhibits the SAME behavior and people can in fact show it very clearly. People just didnt notice or care before until something as huge and popular as the iphone got into the media showing it and everyone started checking their phones feverishly.

    I think people need to get a grip (no pun intended) and use the phone they choose to use and stop the childish bickering over this antenna thing. If you like the phone go use it and take the free case, if you dont return it and get something else. But dont expect other phones cant possibly exhibit similar behavior.
    +1 ...

    While I don't own a 9700 Bold, I've definitely been able to replicate this issue with my defunct 9630 Tour. It's a flaw (one of many) that I noticed shortly after I got the phone last summer. Signal fluctuation (read: loss in 'bars') occurs whenever I hold my phone in the palm of my hand, regardless of whether or not I'm using a case/skin. Naturally, this becomes a more serious issue when I'm in areas with inadequate coverage (e.g. my house, lol).
    Last edited by artisticme; 07-17-10 at 08:35 PM.
    07-17-10 07:44 PM
  10. Duvi's Avatar
    On my 9700 I never dropped a call. I don't care what jobs says but never happened to my 9700. I tried to replicate the issue after seeing the conference and couldn't get it to drop.... People need to remember that no one was talking about this before "Jobs" mentioned it could happen on other devices. So that alone shows that even if you managed to drop a bar or 2 holding your device it was never an issue till the Iphone 4.
    I think it was a bad move for apple to mention/show other devices doing this. I could just see other companies advertising there next phone models as able to make calls lol.
    RIM already went online saying that it's clients don't need a case to use there phones.
    And for all those that admire jobs... Even you have to admit the he dropped the ball on this one

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    How many times have you performed this test on
    your iPhone 4 ???
    07-17-10 08:23 PM
  11. weblou's Avatar
    Your question is irrelevant to my post. I am talking about Apple mentioning of RIM, Nokia, Samsung at the conference. So I really don't see how me having, not having, getting or not getting an Iphone 4 has anything to do with Jobs mentioning RIM.
    Did my post offend you in anyway??
    Because I am clearly talking about my 9700. So maybe you want to ask how many times I performed this on my 9700?? About 20 times since the conference and never even dropped a bar.


    How many times have you performed this test on
    your iPhone 4 ???
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by TheBBman; 07-17-10 at 10:27 PM.
    07-17-10 10:22 PM
  12. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Couple of points:

    1) Hands down, this is the most entertaining thread I have ever read. Period.

    2) I am grateful that enthusiast sites like these were not around when the STARtac was in it's prime. Goodness...

    Carry on!
    07-17-10 11:33 PM
  13. weblou's Avatar
    STARtac was my first cell phone .

    Couple of points:

    1) Hands down, this is the most entertaining thread I have ever read. Period.

    2) I am grateful that enthusiast sites like these were not around when the STARtac was in it's prime. Goodness...

    Carry on!
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-18-10 01:58 AM
  14. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    I could just see other companies advertising there next phone models as able to make calls lol.
    They've already been doing this. Most notably verizon's Droid X.

    From ibtimes.com quotes an ad in the NY Times:

    "The kind that allows you to hold the phone any way you like and use it just about anywhere to make crystal clear calls," the ad said."
    07-18-10 02:13 AM
  15. weblou's Avatar
    Yea I figured they would lol... Sorta obvious that Apples competition would use this to market there phone's.

    They've already been doing this. Most notably verizon's Droid X.

    From ibtimes.com quotes an ad in the NY Times:

    "The kind that allows you to hold the phone any way you like and use it just about anywhere to make crystal clear calls," the ad said."
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-18-10 02:45 AM
  16. stuaw11's Avatar
    Ok lets put this into perspective here.

    Ive said it 2 or 3 times but it doesnt seem to be sinking in with the Apple haters here.

    Are people holding the phone and dropping calls? Not more than any other iphone on ATT

    Are people holding the phone and cant get email or use Safari? No

    Bars mean NOTHING. Its a display of the dB strength of signal. People seem to 100% negate this fact that bars going up and down means absolutely nothing if you can still use the phone.

    This is just WAY overblown past where it really is. ATT released the stats and the iphone 4 call drops are less than 1 more per 100 compared to the 3GS. So calls are NOT dropping a ton more, hence its not as big an issue as people/media make it out to be. Bars mean nothing if you can use the phone. After all, how many time do you check your bars with the phone up to your face using it


    It has nothing to do with fanboying or hating Apple on either extreme. Its just sheer ignorance to make outlandish claims by 2 groups about this situation who: 1) dont even own the phone to test it for yourself or reason to be so angry; or 2) have no more dropped calls then normal. And the stats from the horse's mouth say there are barely any more dropped calls than the 3GS.

    Its way overblown past the point of reality now and its sad to see people eating up the media regurgitated BS instead of using their own brains. NOTHING shows that people are having massive life ending problems because of their iphone 4s; its mostly all hype from the media fueling this debate.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 07-18-10 at 03:16 AM.
    07-18-10 03:09 AM
  17. Radius's Avatar
    Ok lets put this into perspective here.

    Ive said it 2 or 3 times but it doesnt seem to be sinking in with the Apple haters here.

    Are people holding the phone and dropping calls? Not more than any other iphone on ATT

    Are people holding the phone and cant get email or use Safari? No

    Bars mean NOTHING. Its a display of the dB strength of signal. People seem to 100% negate this fact that bars going up and down means absolutely nothing if you can still use the phone.

    This is just WAY overblown past where it really is. ATT released the stats and the iphone 4 call drops are less than 1 more per 100 compared to the 3GS. So calls are NOT dropping a ton more, hence its not as big an issue as people/media make it out to be. Bars mean nothing if you can use the phone. After all, how many time do you check your bars with the phone up to your face using it


    It has nothing to do with fanboying or hating Apple on either extreme. Its just sheer ignorance to make outlandish claims by 2 groups about this situation who: 1) dont even own the phone to test it for yourself or reason to be so angry; or 2) have no more dropped calls then normal. And the stats from the horse's mouth say there are barely any more dropped calls than the 3GS.

    Its way overblown past the point of reality now and its sad to see people eating up the media regurgitated BS instead of using their own brains. NOTHING shows that people are having massive life ending problems because of their iphone 4s; its mostly all hype from the media fueling this debate.
    The bars are an approximation of the dBm level, so it does mean something.

    I've read in places they are offering free bumpers to help with the issue so I think it's more than a trivial issue. I've used more than a few phones in my life and none experience dropped calls no matter how you hold it. If the iPhone 4 does this then it's a flaw plain and simple. They need to learn from this and move forward and hopefully not make such a horrible mistake in the future.
    07-18-10 03:45 AM
  18. deeddawg's Avatar
    The bars are an approximation of the dBm level, so it does mean something
    But that something is only meaningful if the dBm level is dropping below the threshold required to maintain a call or data transfer.

    Signal bars were of greater relevance when phones were using analog voice transmission; there was a real difference in voice quality then.

    Now-a-days, provided the digital signal is getting through, it doesn't matter how many bars are showing.
    07-18-10 02:48 PM
  19. Username00089's Avatar

    Signal bars were of greater relevance when phones were using analog voice transmission;
    You just took me back to the 10th grade when I was using a Motorola StarTac
    07-18-10 04:19 PM
  20. stuaw11's Avatar
    But that something is only meaningful if the dBm level is dropping below the threshold required to maintain a call or data transfer.
    Precisely the point
    07-18-10 05:53 PM
  21. Duvi's Avatar
    Your question is irrelevant to my post. I am talking about Apple mentioning of RIM, Nokia, Samsung at the conference. So I really don't see how me having, not having, getting or not getting an Iphone 4 has anything to do with Jobs mentioning RIM.
    Did my post offend you in anyway??
    Because I am clearly talking about my 9700. So maybe you want to ask how many times I performed this on my 9700?? About 20 times since the conference and never even dropped a bar.




    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Because I have both devices and can test this
    myself. Honestly, I don't understand why any-
    one without the device or doesn't plan on even
    getting the device is worried so much? It is
    very funny to me... and actually seems as
    though you're the "hurt" one. I don't have or
    use windows mobile anymore, so you'll never
    catch me constantly going into a winMo forum
    consistently (almost seems as much if not
    more than your current device) and pointing
    out so called "issues". Over 30, darn near 40
    of your last posts are about Apple and the
    iPhone. In fact, you will never catch me in
    one of those forums, let alone pointing out
    negatives with all my free time on the net.

    Why would I be hurt? I have a BB, Pre and
    Nexus One, so the "Did my post offend you"
    need not apply to me as I could care less about
    one phone or company... I use what works and
    what I like at the moment. In fact, one device
    that I always have and use is a BlackBerry,
    currently a 9700.

    I was actually asking as it sounded like you had
    the device and could not replicate it on YOUR
    9700 as (I thought) you did on an iPhone (that
    I thought you actually owned). It was my fault
    in ASSuming that someone who can comment so
    much about flaws on a device does not currently
    own one, but seems to be louder and more vocal
    than those who actually own it.
    07-18-10 06:00 PM
  22. stuaw11's Avatar
    Exactly Duvi, I find it more than hilarious people who dont own nor plan to own an iphone 4 are so whiny and concerned about this.

    Then some of us refute their (and the other manufacturer) claims, and all of the sudden youre an Apple fanboy for actually owning the device and not seeing the behavior or having a reasonable explanation for it why its not such a big deal.

    Seems the only people who think its a life-ending big deal are people who dont even own the device and have no intentions to get one!
    07-18-10 06:15 PM
  23. sivan's Avatar
    Precisely the point
    Indeed. Regular attenuation from holding the device has been shown to be slightly worse than other devices, but the problem is that touching the iPhone 4 at the black mark has been shown over and over to completely block data transfer and drop calls. Data transfers can recover from intermittent blocks, but calls are dropped because they require a persistent connection.
    07-18-10 06:16 PM
  24. stuaw11's Avatar
    I have not seen "shown over and over again." Ive seen MAYBE a dozen youtube videos, but thats hardly a large percent of the 3 million sold.

    Even if it was 1000 people who could get a call to drop, its still statistically insignificant- .033% of total iphone 4 users.
    07-18-10 06:17 PM
  25. sivan's Avatar
    Exactly Duvi, I find it more than hilarious people who dont own nor plan to own an iphone 4 are so whiny and concerned about this.

    Then some of us refute their (and the other manufacturer) claims, and all of the sudden youre an Apple fanboy for actually owning the device and not seeing the behavior or having a reasonable explanation for it why its not such a big deal.

    Seems the only people who think its a life-ending big deal are people who dont even own the device and have no intentions to get one!
    Strangely you sound as if you don't find it hilarious at all but rather threatening.
    07-18-10 06:18 PM
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