[sivan]

LOL

I have never denied there was a problem; just that it is not as serious as the media and some here make it to be.

If youre not dropping calls then where is the problem? Because the bars moved from 4 to 2? Sounds more like OCD then a real true issue with the phone working.

There's never been a denial that there's attenuation/bar loss going on. But there is also zero proof it happens on every phone every time, or that calls are dropping at any alarming rate. There's also videos of other phones losing bars, there's videos of iphone 4's not losing any bars, there's videos of the iphone 4 losing a few bars, there's a slim few videos of the ihpone dropping a call when touching the spot.

So where exactly is the conclusive evidence of there 100% being a problem for 100% of users?

Not talking about bars. We all understand it's an inaccurate measurement.

Hypothetical question: if you personally held an iPhone 4 at that spot and it stopped data transmission or dropped the call, would this convince you it was a real problem or would you deny what you saw?

[weblou]

Well I don't comment on the device performance since I don't have one. I only made jokes on current events surrounding the device. So technically you don't need a device to make a joke about it but you most defiantly need to have if you plan to complain or point out flaws in it. I always post and tend to hang more in forums about products that I am considering to get. Once I get it not so much lol. Just my way of keeping up to date I guess.
And yes now that you mentioned it. I do remember your reply and I will be getting the 4. I will be the judge of how the device works for me and not some YouTube video .
Anyways to end this I wasn't trying to start crap... I usually never do. I just don't see a reason to insult another company or product because I don't use it. And definitely don't see a reason to defend one since they make buy there product lol. I'm a big believer in if it works for you keep if not change it. .

By all means, stay, I was just saying you
won't catch me commenting so much
about something I don't currently hold.

So the "hold it the wrong way" or "bumper"
jokes (as you call it) would not have come
from me until I had the device.

And my statement was honestly for a lot
of people; pretty much anyone who fits
that description.

Edit: And yes I do realize and remember you
wondering about the 3GS vs. i4 and the
difference in speed... I may have been either
1st or 2nd to comment.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[stuaw11]

Until you can show it happens every time you touch the sport for every user its moot question.

12 reports or however many out of 3 million where touching the spot gives a dropped call are insignificant if youve ever taken a statistics class in your life. It GREATLY revolves around your starting signal strength and other factors. If you have 5 bars and touch the spot lets say you get 2 bars. If you start with 2 bars and touch then obviously the chances of the call dropping are a lot higher.

There are too many factors at play for there to be one answer. And THAT is my exact point, there is no one answer here like some want to project.

[sivan]

Until you can show it happens every time you touch the sport for every user its moot question.

12 reports or however many out of 3 million where touching the spot gives a dropped call are insignificant if youve ever taken a statistics class in your life. It GREATLY revolves around your starting signal strength and other factors. If you have 5 bars and touch the spot lets say you get 2 bars. If you start with 2 bars and touch then obviously the chances of the call dropping are a lot higher.

There are too many factors at play for there to be one answer. And THAT is my exact point, there is no one answer here like some want to project.

I personally went to the Apple store, picked a random iPhone 4, started loading a web page and then touched the black mark. Download paused until I released my finger.

Was I wrong to conclude that merely touching the black mark stops data transmission?

[stuaw11]

When projected to all 3 million users then yes. To your ONE experience, in ONE location, at ONE time in the day, on ONE phone, then no.





I guess you just discount these user's experiences then as "less meaningful" than your own with the iphone on a quick visual test. Does this mean because they personally saw it drop to zero bars that there's a huge 9700 problem too?

I can take a video right now and reproduce it on a 3GS too. Does this mean there was some huge issue all along with the 3Gs that people just didnt notice after 14 months of release?


See the point now? One (or a slim few compared to units sold) experience means little. It takes a lot of similar experiences to reach anything close to a solid conclusion.

[sivan]

When projected to all 3 million users then yes. To your ONE experience, in ONE location, at ONE time in the day, on ONE phone, then no.

What are you saying? I don't get it. Should I have said to myself that I'm wrong and buy it anyway?

[Roo Zilla]

But this discussion is about the iPhone 4's antenna. Does it or does it not have a problem is what we are discussing. I'm sure there will be those who will take it even with the problems. The difference between you and stuaw11, is that he is alternately denying the problem and suggesting ways to live with it.

I don't think anybody is denying there is a problem. It's the degree to which the problem exists. Too many make it out to be that the phone is unusable when that's not the case at all. Since the vast majority use cases on their phones, it won't be an issue. For another large group, they live in areas of good reception, again, no problem. Yet another group will just deal with it, either live through the dropped calls or just not touch the deadzone.

What it basically comes down to is that a small minority that wants the phone will have problems that they can't deal with because they live in a bad area and don't want a case and like to touch the spot. Those people can return the phone. This small minority though, seems very vocal about it.

[stuaw11]

What are you saying? I don't get it. Should I have said to myself that I'm wrong and buy it anyway?

That's your choice, but to suggest or yell out loud from the hillside that no one should buy it because it will be inherently flawed for everyone is ridiculous. And that is exactly what the media and some here are portraying, which is far from reality; and why it's so disturbing people buy it at face value with no logical thought put in.

[sivan]

That's your choice, but to suggest or yell out loud from the hillside that no one should buy it because it will be inherently flawed for everyone is ridiculous. And that is exactly what the media and some here are portraying, which is far from reality; and why it's so disturbing people buy it at face value with no logical thought put in.

I did not say that no one should buy it and I'm sure many still do and would buy it. I just think it should be acknowledged.

[stuaw11]

I did not say that no one should buy it and I'm sure many still do and would buy it. I just think it should be acknowledged.

Wasnt specific to you, the media is even more guilty of this than anyone else.

And I think its been acknowledged to death by now. Everyone and their mother knows about it by now.

Yes there is signal drop; no not everyone sees it.

Yes there are some dropped calls but very few over the norm for an iphone.

As anything else, buy at your own risk and use the 30 day refund period to try it yourself in your area. So everything is way overblown past where it really needs to be.

[sivan]

I don't think anybody is denying there is a problem. It's the degree to which the problem exists. Too many make it out to be that the phone is unusable when that's not the case at all. Since the vast majority use cases on their phones, it won't be an issue. For another large group, they live in areas of good reception, again, no problem. Yet another group will just deal with it, either live through the dropped calls or just not touch the deadzone.

What it basically comes down to is that a small minority that wants the phone will have problems that they can't deal with because they live in a bad area and don't want a case and like to touch the spot. Those people can return the phone. This small minority though, seems very vocal about it.

Sure. But if Apple thinks the phone should be used within a case, then the design is flawed. Apple took a risk with this design, it did it first and foremost to stand out from the competition with a slim profile. If there are downsides to this design, Apple should own up to it instead of pretending that the iPhone is slick when it should in fact be put in a bumper. So it's good that this is being discussed.

[stuaw11]

Sure. But if Apple thinks the phone should be used within a case, then the design is flawed. Apple took a risk with this design, it did it first and foremost to stand out from the competition with a slim profile. If there are downsides to this design, Apple should own up to it instead of pretending that the iPhone is slick when it should in fact be put in a bumper. So it's good that this is being discussed.

Giving away a $2 piece of plastic to keep their customers the highest satisfied in the industry is hardly an admission of anything. Apple thrives on consumer satisfaction; that's their bread and butter to sell products. $2 is much better than people finding all kinds of ways to produce bad results and spreading that word around.

[grover5]

I think they charge 30 for the bumpers so if that is 3 million customers I believe that is 90 million dollars. Man, Apple loves y'all.

[sookster54]

If it was 12 out of 3 million, then the press conference wouldn't have happened. The death grip vs covering the black spot is an unfair comnparison, who on earth grips a phone in a death grip form anyways?

[stuaw11]

I think they charge 30 for the bumpers so if that is 3 million customers I believe that is 90 million dollars. Man, Apple loves y'all.

$30 is retail price after a huge markup. Honestly, what do you think it cost Apple to make them give them away? $2-3 a piece tops?

[sivan]

Giving away a $2 piece of plastic to keep their customers the highest satisfied in the industry is hardly an admission of anything. Apple thrives on consumer satisfaction; that's their bread and butter to sell products. $2 is much better than people finding all kinds of ways to produce bad results and spreading that word around.

It doesn't matter if they admit it. You yourself suggested people use a bumper or duct tape. I'm saying that Apple went too far with this design if this is the result.

Do you know of any other phone that has special holding requirements or requires a bumper and was accepted as having no problems?

[sivan]

$30 is retail price after a huge markup. Honestly, what do you think it cost Apple to make them give them away? $2-3 a piece tops?

Actually I think it's a loss for them. Not because the bumpers really cost anywhere near $30 to make but because they anticipated revenue from sales which will now won't happen. Any additional sales Apple projected along the device subsidized it.

[grover5]

It costs them lost revenue on what they would have charged. I can't believe I had to explain that.

[stuaw11]

Actually I think it's a loss for them. Not because the bumpers really cost anywhere near $30 to make but because they anticipated revenue from sales which will now won't happen. Any additional sales Apple projected along the device subsidized it.

Which is better, gaining an additional 500,000 phone sales at $400 or so profit each, or profit on even 5 million bumpers at $20 profit they planned to sell? (a VERY generous estimate of bumper sales)

Those 500k in phones is $200 million profit and the bumpers are a $100 million profit. Giving away a $20 profit is nothing compared to the $400 profit off an additional phone sale

[sivan]

Good stuff stuaw11

I think it would be best if Apple just designed their phones such that they don't require bumpers even if the phone looks less sexy.

[LazyStarGazer]

It costs them lost revenue on what they would have charged. I can't believe I had to explain that.

Yes, but they wouldn't have sold 3 million bumpers, so it's not that big of a hit against lost bumper revenue.

[Sooks]

It costs them lost revenue on what they would have charged. I can't believe I had to explain that.

lol , bro as others have said .... the profit alone on the iphone is 5 times over what a bumper would be ... so they sell 3 million iphones at 400.00 profit = 1 billion 200 million dollars profit ... now lets say then need to provide each iphone with a bumper , they odds are pay no less then 7 dollars for the bumper ( rough estimate based on materials ) so lets minus 7 dollars from each i4 profit .... 400 - 7 = 393.00 which still at 3 million = 1 billion 179 million. so they lose 21 million in potential profits per every 3 million iphones sold .... THAT IS VERY LITTLE LOSS when a MAJOR RECALL IS THE OTHER OPTION

[grover5]

Look guys. The point of the 90 million is simply that stuaw is kidding himself if he feels this is not a product flaw. I'm sure you can all sleep well at night knowing your beloved company is still turning profit. If you are going to discuss my statements then I ask you remain focused and respect context.

[Roo Zilla]

THAT IS VERY LITTLE LOSS when a MAJOR RECALL IS THE OTHER OPTION

Given the low rate of returns, I'm pretty sure the the "other" option was "do nothing."

[Roo Zilla]

Good stuff stuaw11

I think it would be best if Apple just designed their phones such that they don't require bumpers even if the phone looks less sexy.

iPhone 5 = iPhone 4 with non-conductive coating on the antenna.