[xandermac]

Back around 2008 steve said "people don't want to rent music, they want to buy". Now he'll say "people don't want to rent music, they want to buy it, THEN pay an additional subscription fee to stream it from our iCloud".

I don't see the point of a cloud music locker when we all have iPods and we all have carriers that are terrified of us actually using data.

[papped]

People don't want 7" tablets, they are insta fail...

[xandermac]

How is that different from any other manufacturing company, RIM for example, or Sony or HTC? That's the name of the game, you don't have to play along.

I'm glad someone brought up the apple yearly refreshes because I always wanted to make this comparison.

Apple=Madden games

With iphone or ipad2 there was no mind blowing jump in spec or OS to me it always seemed like a roster update. Yeah they do release big upgrades but the yearly releases are just to have you buy something new.

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[xandermac]

Mmmm, I guess a 7" tablet is outselling all the rest and we didn't know about it? They played to the mass market and guess what, it worked, 10" has been pretty successful.

People don't want 7" tablets, they are insta fail...

[papped]

They claimed 7" was a complete failure that no one would want, which was false. Also you seem to imply the ipad sells better because of the 10" form factor instead of 7". If so I have a bucket of laughs @ you.

[Foreverup]

How is that different from any other manufacturing company, RIM for example, or Sony or HTC? That's the name of the game, you don't have to play along.

true take bb for example they make different form factors for different users. but the comparison is way easier to make because apple makes one phone/tablet then update that only. i can go into a more depth description but i want to keep the post short.

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[xandermac]

"Making an unusual appearance on the financial results call, Jobs dismissed 7-inch slates � like Samsung�s Galaxy Tab and including the ongoing rumors of a smaller iPad version � as �tweeners� falling in-between smartphone and iPad and likely to be dead on arrival, while also saving a few obituary words for RIM"

"complete failure"? Where exactly?

Jobs: 7-inch Tablets DOA; Android is fragmented, not open - SlashGear

And yes, the 10" tablet has proven infinitely more popular, hence all the 10" tabs now appearing and the 10" playbook that will appear shortly. Bookmark this thread.

They claimed 7" was a complete failure that no one would want, which was false. Also you seem to imply the ipad sells better because of the 10" form factor instead of 7". If so I have a bucket of laughs @ you.

[papped]

Wow you have some serious apple cool-aid going on if you think "likely DOA" is not roughly the same thing...

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

and the 10" playbook that will appear shortly. Bookmark this thread.

Actually that's just a rumour. It might not come true. Show me where it's set in stone that RIM are releasing a 10" tablet, and from a reliable source please.

[Economist101]

But you did specifically point out that the iPad2 is too thin for anything more than VGA on the front facing camera, which isn't true. The iPad2's front facing camera is arbitrarily low quality to draw people back to buy another iPad later.

No, I didn't say that either. I never said the iPad 2 was "too thin" for anything more than VGA (in fact I never used the term VGA at all); I merely stated that dimensions of the device limit the size of what can be included. Also, if the current iPad 2 camera is something shoppers are concerned about, why do you assume they'll buy an iPad 2 anyway?

Overall, Apple to make good hardware. But there are some shortcomings, some would say deliberately so. Their non-removable batteries are a particular gripe of many people due to their short life, and of course, only an Apple technician can replace it for you..

There are shortcomings in all hardware. As for the non-removable batteries and "short life," which devices are you referring to specifically? I haven't heard complaints about iPhone 4/iPod Touch or iPad batteries and "short life," nor have I heard it to be an issue on any of the laptops with built-in batteries. As for where the batteries can be replaced, Google "Apple battery replacement" and you'll see pages and pages of 3rd party services and kits.

You're right, force is the wrong word. What I meant is that people see these new features that are incompatible with their current device, and they have to upgrade if they want them. I mean, isn't MMS disabled on the original iPhone still? There's no good reason for that. The most basic, awful old Nokia phones handle picture messaging.

Those same "awful old Nokia phones" couldn't browse the web, run apps, send/receive e-mail, etc, so it's not as though this is a value question.

I can answer this question, and it's quite simply no. Holding back desirable features doesn't harm you at all if you have a raft of other desirable features to take the attention away from a device's shortcomings. The original iPhone had plenty of features which made it stand out in the marketplace, so they didn't need to put decent cameras in - because that would secure upgrade sales in the next cycle.

Ah. So in other words, people purchase the device because of desirable features, not because they are "forced" or anything similar. I hate to break it to you, but being desirable is the entire point. As for "securing upgrade sales," you're playing both sides. One the one hand, you're saying that the presence of desirable features more than makes up for missing features, but then you say that once new features are released, people absolutely must have them. I just don't think that's true; there's no amount of features that would make the average iPhone owner purchase a phone off-contract. They are just too expensive. Are there people that buy every model? Sure. But they are the exception, and would probably buy the devices even if there weren't any new features at all.

As for RIM's upgrade cycle, sure, they upgrade their phones yearly as well. But RIM are so far behind anyway that I get the impression their attitude is more "will this do?" than "let's leave this off to secure upgrades".

RIM is not "behind" as much as they have a different strategy than iOS or Android. Don't kid yourself; RIM is delivering devices it believes will succeed in the market; they take their market position very seriously, which is how they grew to become a $25 billion company. The idea that they are sending devices into the market hoping no one notices their shortcomings is rather naive, especially when RIM is pushing to get a fair accounting for its success and position in the mobile industry from analysts, investors and consumers.

[papped]

Even if they are it doesn't mean crap other than that RIM is offering 2 flavors for variety.... Such a concept, I know...

[xandermac]

Actually I'm a staunch blackberry user, but sure, I use an apple product. I'm also a staunch believer in accuracy, no, "likely DOA" is not the same as "been a complete failure", different tense to begin with. I'm also not naive enough to dismiss apple just because I don't like them like so many analysts that put their foot in their mouth.

Wow you have some serious apple cool-aid going on if you think "likely DOA" is not roughly the same thing...

[xandermac]

Really? Are you naive enough to think they won't?

Actually that's just a rumour. It might not come true. Show me where it's set in stone that RIM are releasing a 10" tablet, and from a reliable source please.

[papped]

Actually I'm a staunch blackberry user, but sure, I use an apple product. I'm also a staunch believer in accuracy, no, "likely DOA" is not the same as "been a complete failure", different tense to begin with. I'm also not naive enough to dismiss apple just because I don't like them like so many analysts that put their foot in their mouth.

They announced the "likely DOA" before the tablet launched, so obvious the tense would HAVE to be different... Also I can't help but laugh at the concept of analysts being anti Apple... They have it better in that regard than most...

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

Really? Are you naive enough to think they won't?

No, I'm not. I just want to see the proof that they're releasing a 10" tablet. I work on the ideal of "I'll believe it when I see it". Rarely get disappointed as a result.

[ericlc2]

Way to drag all the ifans out from under the trolls bridge

[Foreverup]

Really? Are you naive enough to think they won't?

no offense i agree with you in thinking they will release a 10'' but don't call someone out for not using the exact wording then call someone naive for not believing a rumor. you start to look stupid

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[xandermac]

Fair enough, but I ask you this, when we know for certain that it's going to happen, and it will, is it still merely a rumor? which we would be stupid not to believe? Anyone that says RIM will not release a 10" tablet is thick. And if you're going to quote someone To defend a position it should be remotely accurate.

no offense i agree with you in thinking they will release a 10'' but don't call someone out for not using the exact wording then call someone naive for not believing a rumor. you start to look stupid

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[PlayBookGeek]

Debating screen sizes seems rather pointless to me. If Apple introduces a superior run-time environment, small hardware differences may not matter. RIM used to be able to claim they had the best infrastructure. Now? Not so much.

We should be rating essential Cloud elements. Beginning next week, it may suddenly be a very important mobile topic. I hope RIM is ready to debate this topic too. Silence will be a poor strategy.

[ekafara]

I went and read about the iCloud over at tipb.com and pretty much everyone over there didn't like it. They didn't want to pay to stream their owb music and are thinking it will only be used to stream music bought from iTunes. I would hate to have to pay to stream music I already own and have to be in a good area for it to work well.

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[xandermac]

I have to agree, but someone would have to pay for the bandwidth. It'll be interesting to see what they announce.

. I would hate to have to pay to stream music I already own and have to be in a good area for it to work well.

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[Foreverup]

Fair enough, but I ask you this, when we know for certain that it's going to happen, and it will, is it still merely a rumor? which we would be stupid not to believe? Anyone that says RIM will not release a 10" tablet is thick. And if you're going to quote someone To defend a position it should be remotely accurate.

Just because I want to belive something does not make it true in anyway. It is an opinion not fact. RIM in no way has reported that a 10" playbook is being released.

Again if you want to slam people do it with facts.

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[xandermac]

Believe what you want, everyone else knows a 10" is on the way.

Just because I want to belive something does not make it true in anyway. It is an opinion not fact. RIM in no way has reported that a 10" playbook is being released.

Again if you want to slam people do it with facts.

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[lamewad]

Believe what you want, everyone else knows a 10" is on the way.

That's what she said?

Sorry, everyone else was being sooo mature, I had to.

[Foreverup]

Believe what you want, everyone else knows a 10" is on the way.
.

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Ok kid well you keep going and telling people they have to believe the exact words Steve Jobs says and not read in between the lines. Then call them thick from not believing a rumor that started on BGR because you do. To each their own I guess

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