02-27-13 10:41 AM
44 12
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  1. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    It is also hard to not see one of Bob's points. Would you say the Z10 is less secure than previous offerings? I'm referring to the vast majority (non-BES ones).
    For consumers, the new BB10 devices do not encrypt your emails. That is the only less secure feature. Who cares if your browsing is encrypted or other web based stuff is. From all the complaints about BIS not being enabled for browsing and data apps, I mainly see people complain that their data usage would be higher. But it was a double edge sword. People on OS7 devices complained about how the device was slow. That is because encryption takes CPU time. And when the NOC had problems, either by RIM or a carrier, it was like the world ended and was front page news. This won't happen anymore as BB10 consumer devices are going to be subject to the exact same level of connection as other platforms. RIM also had problems with governments all across the world with law enforcements. Something that Apple or Samsung did not. They are on the same footing now.

    For business, BB10 devices are just as secure as OS7 and way better than iOS and Android as they were built from the ground up as secure and don't need to have walls installed to make it so.
    02-26-13 06:49 AM
  2. bobauckland's Avatar
    For consumers, the new BB10 devices do not encrypt your emails. That is the only less secure feature. Who cares if your browsing is encrypted or other web based stuff is. From all the complaints about BIS not being enabled for browsing and data apps, I mainly see people complain that their data usage would be higher. But it was a double edge sword. People on OS7 devices complained about how the device was slow. That is because encryption takes CPU time. And when the NOC had problems, either by RIM or a carrier, it was like the world ended and was front page news. This won't happen anymore as BB10 consumer devices are going to be subject to the exact same level of connection as other platforms. RIM also had problems with governments all across the world with law enforcements. Something that Apple or Samsung did not. They are on the same footing now.

    For business, BB10 devices are just as secure as OS7 and way better than iOS and Android as they were built from the ground up as secure and don't need to have walls installed to make it so.
    You've either conveniently ignored my question, or don't have the knowledge to back up your statements.
    In what way is bb10 more secure than android or ios for consumers?

    Posted via CB10
    02-26-13 06:54 AM
  3. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    And everyone's ok with using them in Enterprise.. personal phones should be kept for personal use and business for business..

    wait a sec.. that's .. why we have the z10/q10 from BB
    To play devil's advocate, has anyone ever heard of an enterprise iPhone being hacked and critical business information being leaked? It's easy to say "there's a flaw", it's much harder to point to actual damage.
    02-26-13 07:09 AM
  4. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    As I said earlier, go to the apps thread.
    Explain to Devcellent how they can get their app to tell when the phone is on silent.
    Or in the holster.
    I don't know why your app would care. Personally, if I turn the phone to silent, I want it silent. If they do need to disturb the user,

    Override system sound - BlackBerry Support Community Forums

    Personally, I would get pissed if an app made a sound when it wasn't supposed to.

    Or to customise alerts and less for BBM messages.
    Send a notification to the HUB. That what is if for. Sometimes you need to rethink old ways of doing things in a new platform.

    Or how to run headless apps.
    I think you mean background apps. That is a big no no for security. That is why Android has security flaws. Apps running in the background without the user knowing, taking photos or recording conversations is a security issue.


    Go on, I'll even thank you for it.

    Or if you can't do that or lack the knowledge, that's fine, tell us what you've programmed so we know whether you haven't had any problems because you've done an ebook app or one of the other apps on BlackBerry world that serves no real purpose.

    Posted via CB10
    I work in the corporate world and develop for our company.
    02-26-13 07:11 AM
  5. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Bb10, for a consumer, is less functional and secure at present than os7
    Oh Bob, will you ever drop the sweeping statements and just focus on the specifics?!!!! You have such good insight, once you dig past the blanket remarks and get specific ...
    02-26-13 07:15 AM
  6. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    You've either conveniently ignored my question, or don't have the knowledge to back up your statements.
    In what way is bb10 more secure than android or ios for consumers?

    Posted via CB10
    How many bots have been released for BB devices? How many for Android? This is a good example.

    Attack Turns Android Devices Into Spam-Spewing Botnets - Security -

    This couldn't happen on a BB10 phone as the APIs will record the traffic in the hub. So your touting flexibility limits in APIs are actually designed to protect the users phone. And the developer who wants to override BBM, while it may be for good, it could also be used to spam. I always look at things with security in mind.
    lynxs_claw likes this.
    02-26-13 07:16 AM
  7. kbz1960's Avatar
    BIS was never that secure to begin with. BES is where all of that is at. BB10 is more secure as it isn't a target yet.
    02-26-13 07:21 AM
  8. ibpluto's Avatar
    Bb10 is not flexible.
    Not for devs not for users.
    The notifications, hooks and apis are not flexible. The multitasking is not flexible.
    Look in the app thread to get an idea as to what hoops devs have to jump through to get basic functionality.

    I don't think you really understand the issues facing users and devs at the moment.

    Posted via CB10
    Are we supposed to take this post seriously?

    The very nature of the QNX microkernal dictates the entire OS is flexible. There are multiple devs that have expressed how easy it is in fact to develop for BB10. What the heck are you going on about?
    02-26-13 07:33 AM
  9. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    As I said earlier, go to the apps thread.
    Explain to Devcellent how they can get their app to tell when the phone is on silent.
    Or in the holster.
    Or to customise alerts and less for BBM messages.
    Or how to run headless apps.

    Go on, I'll even thank you for it.

    Or if you can't do that or lack the knowledge, that's fine, tell us what you've programmed so we know whether you haven't had any problems because you've done an ebook app or one of the other apps on BlackBerry world that serves no real purpose.

    Posted via CB10
    Oh, unless you can explain the need for those features, they all can be used to exploit the phone. The user should control the phone and apps, the apps should never control the phone. So what you say are limited on development are actually security issue. SO you are saying tha BB10 is less secure than OS7 and you want to make it even less secure.
    lynxs_claw likes this.
    02-26-13 07:40 AM
  10. bobauckland's Avatar
    Oh Bob, will you ever drop the sweeping statements and just focus on the specifics?!!!! You have such good insight, once you dig past the blanket remarks and get specific ...
    Honestly though, you always pull me up for blanket statements.
    The other day you pulled me up for saying the email client on bb10 is worse than any other major os.

    I thought about it, I suppose the other way of looking at it is, how is the email client in bb10 better than any other major os. If no one can come up with one way it's better and I can come up with at least one way it's worse, is it then fair to make sweeping statements considering they're still accurate?

    Also, all the people saying qnx will save the world, it will change everything, it will revolutionise mobile computing, throwing the word micro kernel out there and making sweeping statements with no specifics and no evidence to back that up, why aren't you climbing all over them?

    Come on Chicken, at least be fair!

    The biggest sweeping statements on this forum are that bb10 is better because of qnx, micro kernel this or that, rtos, all catchphrases and marketing speak with absolutely no real world impact, at least so far.

    Posted via CB10
    02-26-13 07:43 AM
  11. bobauckland's Avatar
    I don't know why your app would care. Personally, if I turn the phone to silent, I want it silent. If they do need to disturb the user,

    Override system sound - BlackBerry Support Community Forums

    Personally, I would get pissed if an app made a sound when it wasn't supposed to.



    Send a notification to the HUB. That what is if for. Sometimes you need to rethink old ways of doing things in a new platform.



    I think you mean background apps. That is a big no no for security. That is why Android has security flaws. Apps running in the background without the user knowing, taking photos or recording conversations is a security issue.



    I work in the corporate world and develop for our company.
    I don't think I explained myself clearly.
    The app they put out makes noises even when the phone is on silent. The dev says there's no way to disable that as the app can't tell when them phone is on silent so mute the apps sounds. That sounds like a huge problem to me.

    Re background apps, you have a point re security, but the bottom line is without headless apps, and with an 8 app active frame limit multitasking is near useless on thin phone. Heck many programs say they don't even get notifications when the app is active framed. That's a big problem for consumers.

    And hang on you write a private app for a private company and you're getting a dev device from BlackBerry?
    Wow.

    I had no idea they were also giving devices out to people writing apps most of us will never see.

    Posted via CB10
    02-26-13 07:49 AM
  12. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I don't think I explained myself clearly.
    And hang on you write a private app for a private company and you're getting a dev device from BlackBerry?
    Wow.

    I had no idea they were also giving devices out to people writing apps most of us will never see.

    Posted via CB10
    Gee,

    I guess you don't want BB10 to succeed in the Enterprise space. How is the corporate world going to accept BB10 if they can't see the benefits?
    Our company has bought 10 Z10 phones to start, will be getting Q10s, installed BES10 and will be managing about 80 Playbooks and about 50 other BB phones with BES10 and Balance because we were able to see the benefits of the platform with a Dev Alpha device. So we have spent more on Blackberry products in the last 2 months than you will in your whole lifetime. All because they seeded me and our company with a Dev Alpha.

    Glad you aren't working for Blackberry.
    lynxs_claw and bombastic like this.
    02-26-13 07:59 AM
  13. lynxs_claw's Avatar
    My take on security is this.. you need to give up something in order to be secure. Nobody offers a device out there that is completely flexible and is completely secure. So the question is how much do you have to give up to be the most secure and I've read the arguments here - IMO Bluenoser63 has certainly made all the right points here. you simple have to give up too much with iOS and Android using MDM than BB10 using BES10 if you want to stay on par with secutiry. As he's stated BB is the only company and knowledgable in this area building from the ground up to maximize security while at the same time maximizing the corporate/consumer flexibility. Sure the phone is new in the consumer market and the apps are coming .. but it is important to note that the BB10 phones are equipped to handle the latest and greatest apps better than BBOS.

    Update: I should add BB10/BES10 is not just the design from the ground up, it's also the fact that the BB10 devices (hardware/software) have been designed to work specifically and securely with the BES10 server. It's not an MDM solution service that has been designed afterwards to work with an already established consumer device and OS .
    Last edited by lynxs_claw; 02-26-13 at 09:55 AM.
    bombastic likes this.
    02-26-13 09:37 AM
  14. xandermac's Avatar
    This kind of EXPLOIT would not happen on a BlackBerry.

    Reply #7 said apple has fixed this issue in a new release....NOT TRUE. the exploit was just posted online on Monday, this is still an active problem. The fix was for the old EXPLOIT which had a similar nature.


    If you have an iPhone you are vulnerable to this!!!!!!!!! BEWARE!!!

    Files and information can be viewed!!!

    Safest bet is a blackberry.
    Yes, assuming the attacker has physical access to the device. Same goes for pretty much any device though, give someone physical access and all bets are off. Remote wipe won't work either if they disable the radio or pop out the SIM. Physical access is pretty much the worst thing that anyone could allow to happen.
    Last edited by xandermac; 02-26-13 at 10:48 AM.
    02-26-13 10:36 AM
  15. agp101's Avatar
    So yeah.. We're supposed to be talking about how the iPhone is a joke in security...
    Some people are actually trying to debate BlackBerry's security? Cmon, they've been doing this since 1999..... lol

    Shows how screwed up these forums really are. Like seriously. Weird.
    02-26-13 11:23 AM
  16. bobauckland's Avatar
    Oh, unless you can explain the need for those features, they all can be used to exploit the phone. The user should control the phone and apps, the apps should never control the phone. So what you say are limited on development are actually security issue. SO you are saying tha BB10 is less secure than OS7 and you want to make it even less secure.
    I think I can see why you think everything that's needed is already available, in your world everything is a potential security risk.
    May be fine for the enterprise arena but it's a daft point of view for consumers.
    Suddenly wanting personalisation for holster settings and proper multitasking is a security risk.
    Right then, I might as well stop, you're not even being reasonable any more.

    Gee,

    I guess you don't want BB10 to succeed in the Enterprise space. How is the corporate world going to accept BB10 if they can't see the benefits?
    Our company has bought 10 Z10 phones to start, will be getting Q10s, installed BES10 and will be managing about 80 Playbooks and about 50 other BB phones with BES10 and Balance because we were able to see the benefits of the platform with a Dev Alpha device. So we have spent more on Blackberry products in the last 2 months than you will in your whole lifetime. All because they seeded me and our company with a Dev Alpha.

    Glad you aren't working for Blackberry.
    Lol, you throw all that in like someone is supposed to know it. Or believe it. Personally, I don't do either of those things, not with your posting history.
    I've asked some reasonable qs given the fact you jumped around saying you're a dev when I said other devs were struggling. Your solution was the devs are security risks. Basically, you don't know how to do what they're trying to do.
    I work in a UK Trust and have a chair on a group looking at tech usage in the Trust, we have ordered plenty of PlayBooks as a Trust for a pilot program and all consultants are issued BlackBerries, the Trust has been a part of a BlackBerry commercial highlighting BlackBerry usage in healthcare in the UK.
    Interestingly enough, we haven't had any Dev devices.

    Anyway, bottom line, try and stay focused on the questions and topic at hand, instead of starting a pissing match.

    My take on security is this.. you need to give up something in order to be secure. Nobody offers a device out there that is completely flexible and is completely secure. So the question is how much do you have to give up to be the most secure and I've read the arguments here - IMO Bluenoser63 has certainly made all the right points here. you simple have to give up too much with iOS and Android using MDM than BB10 using BES10 if you want to stay on par with secutiry. As he's stated BB is the only company and knowledgable in this area building from the ground up to maximize security while at the same time maximizing the corporate/consumer flexibility. Sure the phone is new in the consumer market and the apps are coming .. but it is important to note that the BB10 phones are equipped to handle the latest and greatest apps better than BBOS.

    Update: I should add BB10/BES10 is not just the design from the ground up, it's also the fact that the BB10 devices (hardware/software) have been designed to work specifically and securely with the BES10 server. It's not an MDM solution service that has been designed afterwards to work with an already established consumer device and OS .
    Which is all fine for Enterprise. And means squat for consumers.

    So yeah.. We're supposed to be talking about how the iPhone is a joke in security...
    Some people are actually trying to debate BlackBerry's security? Cmon, they've been doing this since 1999..... lol

    Shows how screwed up these forums really are. Like seriously. Weird.
    The Z10 is the second device that allows Android sideloading.
    The Playbook was the first, and was rooted at some point as well.
    You could sideload apps on your Z10 and have no idea where they were signed or converted, you have no idea what you are putting on your device.
    There will likely be a big security scare at some point, assuming these devices
    become popular enough.
    Your email is not secure, it doesn't go through the NOC anymore.

    The device hasn't been released in the States and has been around the rest of the world less than a month, and we are supposed to say it's the most secure thing ever?

    And as someone else said, have you heard of enterprise ready iPhones or Androids causing major security breaches?
    That's ignoring the fact that there was a botnet a few months ago found to affect BBs as well, wasn't there?

    I agree, these forums can be weird at times. Amazing what people will believe, and what they won't, blindly.
    02-26-13 12:37 PM
  17. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I think I can see why you think everything that's needed is already available, in your world everything is a potential security risk.
    May be fine for the enterprise arena but it's a daft point of view for consumers.
    Suddenly wanting personalisation for holster settings and proper multitasking is a security risk.
    Right then, I might as well stop, you're not even being reasonable any more.

    I work in a UK Trust and have a chair on a group looking at tech usage in the Trust, we have ordered plenty of PlayBooks as a Trust for a pilot program and all consultants are issued BlackBerries, the Trust has been a part of a BlackBerry commercial highlighting BlackBerry usage in healthcare in the UK.
    Interestingly enough, we haven't had any Dev devices.
    Thank god I won't be using the healthcare in the UK with the attitude that you have about security. I don't want my BB10 dumbed down and insecure just to get some consumers who don't care if their phone gets hacked. But with your attitude I can see peoples health records compromised so they can override the SOP of the phones. As for the Dev Alpha, did any of your developers go any one of the BB Developer Jams and try to qualify for one? I did.

    You can believe what you want. I deal with security everyday to protect the company data and infrastructure. I'm done with talking to someone who doesn't take it seriously.
    02-26-13 02:47 PM
  18. agp101's Avatar
    I think I can see why you think everything that's needed is already available, in your world everything is a potential security risk.
    May be fine for the enterprise arena but it's a daft point of view for consumers.
    Suddenly wanting personalisation for holster settings and proper multitasking is a security risk.
    Right then, I might as well stop, you're not even being reasonable any more.



    Lol, you throw all that in like someone is supposed to know it. Or believe it. Personally, I don't do either of those things, not with your posting history.
    I've asked some reasonable qs given the fact you jumped around saying you're a dev when I said other devs were struggling. Your solution was the devs are security risks. Basically, you don't know how to do what they're trying to do.
    I work in a UK Trust and have a chair on a group looking at tech usage in the Trust, we have ordered plenty of PlayBooks as a Trust for a pilot program and all consultants are issued BlackBerries, the Trust has been a part of a BlackBerry commercial highlighting BlackBerry usage in healthcare in the UK.
    Interestingly enough, we haven't had any Dev devices.

    Anyway, bottom line, try and stay focused on the questions and topic at hand, instead of starting a pissing match.



    Which is all fine for Enterprise. And means squat for consumers.



    The Z10 is the second device that allows Android sideloading.
    The Playbook was the first, and was rooted at some point as well.
    You could sideload apps on your Z10 and have no idea where they were signed or converted, you have no idea what you are putting on your device.
    There will likely be a big security scare at some point, assuming these devices
    become popular enough.
    Your email is not secure, it doesn't go through the NOC anymore.

    The device hasn't been released in the States and has been around the rest of the world less than a month, and we are supposed to say it's the most secure thing ever?

    And as someone else said, have you heard of enterprise ready iPhones or Androids causing major security breaches?
    That's ignoring the fact that there was a botnet a few months ago found to affect BBs as well, wasn't there?

    I agree, these forums can be weird at times. Amazing what people will believe, and what they won't, blindly.
    dude.. Email is connections are still encrypted. You think active sync just transmits through plain text? Your argument for it not being released in the US is absurd. Fact is it is being released so it is secure, and the delay really isn't justification for saying it has bad security.
    Do you think all technology is safe? Like you thought it was absolutely impossible that BB could be susceptible to anything? Oh so you were being unrealistic. Fact is everything has breach points, the probability of that happen is what changes.
    I really can't comment on on the Android sideloading thing because I don't know exactly how it works, but I trust its rather safe. Why? Because bb's track record thus far is practically perfect in regards to security. If it wasn't, we would have heard by now because media has loved to hate on them the past 2 years.
    What I have heard of though is IPhone having lockscreen security flaws, only to be even WORSE after a "fix" from Apple. Apple and Google have 0 track record for security. They are not yet proven in enterprise. Being allowed in is one thing but being proven is another. It's only a short While they're in the game.


    I really don't know why you're putting up such a fight. Just move on already. No side will win here these arguments are so fricking pointless its crazy....... Just like these forums can be.
    02-26-13 05:25 PM
  19. xandermac's Avatar
    I guess the pentagon is OK with iPhone/Android security

    Pentagon to allow iOS and Android devices in 2014 - TodaysiPhone.com
    bobauckland likes this.
    02-27-13 10:41 AM
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