1. the_boon's Avatar
    They can rent or buy a brand. Those are easy to find nowadays (ask OM)

    A PKB is a niche tool. A professional pair of pliers from snap-on costs 7-8, even 10 times as much as ones normal people get on Amazon.

    If this is truly a viable niche, then people have to pay niche prices, or it can’t work. The math will never add up (considering support, marketing, distribution costs)

    So if even $1000 won’t fly for a niche phone then I just don’t see PKBs making it beyond a fun little Kickstarter now and again.
    If Unihertz licensed the BB logo, then grabbed some patents from BB and made a decent Priv 2 type phone, maybe it could sell okay for $800...I don't think it would do well at $1000, unless offered by carriers with deals etc.
    06-09-21 06:06 PM
  2. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    The vast majority of people don't pay $1000 dollars for renowned brands that are not carrier subsidized. One need look no further than Sony. Sony's latest candy bar slab possesses all the "premium" traits people supposedly want but by sales only truly when discounted heavily on a trade in, "free" or on a carrier BOGO.

    When these carrier sweetners and "official" support are void from an OEM it's game over.
    The vast majority of people are outside the USA so BOGO and similar promotions aren't really a consideration.

    Even in the USA, the promotions are usually onetime deals for new customers.
    pdr733 likes this.
    06-09-21 07:05 PM
  3. bh7171's Avatar
    The vast majority of people are outside the USA so BOGO and similar promotions aren't really a consideration.

    Even in the USA, the promotions are usually onetime deals for new customers.
    I am speaking to US carriers as that's where I/you reside and all the "free", discounted trade ins and BOGO's are applicable now more so than ever to existing and new users. (see many of the recent links I have posted) Especially for new "free" midrange Samsung 5G devices.

    If a person pays full price here in the US for a "flagship" slab (that we know don't do anything materially different than exceptional midrange devices) I feel for them. They obviously didn't do their homework and that includes researching deals with their existing carrier and or Apple and Samsung.

    I had not researched new device sales outside of the US but China, India and Asia lead the US and Europe by significant margins. Devices in those regions tend to be Android and far more affordable when selling in China and India.


    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ales-by-region

    My buddy that now lives in Flennsburg Germany confirmed lack of carrier deals in that region on new iPhones and Samsung. He noted they are absurdly priced (more so than here before carrier subsidies) so most, he noted, use prior iPhone devices or a newer midtier Android. In his case he continues to use his iPhone 7.

    Apples biggest market by a large margin remains the America's with those ongoing carrier deals. I don't know why that is so hard for people to understand? I mean it's logical right? "Trade in and up for the new iPhone 12 now", " New iPhone SE for free", "Buy one iPhone 12 and get one on us"
    (For Android just insert Samsung)

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...rahical-region
    Last edited by bh7171; 06-09-21 at 10:48 PM.
    06-09-21 08:46 PM
  4. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I am speaking to US carriers as that's where I/you reside and all the "free", discounted trade ins and BOGO's are applicable now more so than ever to existing and new users. (see many of the recent links I have posted) Especially for new "free" midrange Samsung 5G devices.

    If a person pays full price here in the US for a "flagship" slab (that we know don't do anything materially different than exceptional midrange devices) I feel for them. They obviously didn't do their homework and that includes researching deals with their existing carrier and or Apple and Samsung.

    I had not researched new device sales outside of the US but China, India and Asia lead the US and Europe by significant margins. Devices in those regions tend to be Android and far more affordable when selling in China and India.


    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ales-by-region

    My buddy that now lives in Flennsburg Germany confirmed lack of carrier deals in that region on new iPhones and Samsung. He noted they are absurdly priced (more so than here before carrier subsidies) so most, he noted, use prior iPhone devices or a newer midtier Android. In his case he continues to use his iPhone 7.

    Apples biggest market by a large margin remains the America's with those ongoing carrier deals. I don't know why that is so hard for people to understand? I mean it's logical right? "Trade in and up for the new iPhone 12 now", " New iPhone SE for free", "Buy one iPhone 12 and get one on us"
    (For Android just insert Samsung)

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...rahical-region
    Yes but those various promotions have become more for new customer lines and existing customers don’t qualify to just replace devices.

    What does any of this matter though? This is simply how business is done. We all know life isn’t fair and the “best” or “first” doesn’t win unless you factor in multiple probabilities. Apple has factored in what people want or at least what people believe what they want.
    06-10-21 04:58 AM
  5. bh7171's Avatar
    Yes but those various promotions have become more for new customer lines and existing customers don’t qualify to just replace devices.

    What does any of this matter though? This is simply how business is done. We all know life isn’t fair and the “best” or “first” doesn’t win unless you factor in multiple probabilities. Apple has factored in what people want or at least what people believe what they want.
    According to AT&T's site the promotions include new and existing customers, similar to Verizon and T-Mobile. This has been ongoing for sometime. They really ramp up @ the release of new devices and holidays.

    https://forums.crackberry.com/e?link...token=Taioceoo
    06-10-21 10:17 AM
  6. conite's Avatar
    According to AT&T's site the promotions include new and existing customers, similar to Verizon and T-Mobile. This has been ongoing for sometime. They really ramp up @ the release of new devices and holidays.

    https://forums.crackberry.com/e?link...token=y24pK8Mp
    You seem to be overly focused on a subset of a single market. It doesn't translate in any significant way to global numbers.
    06-10-21 10:40 AM
  7. bh7171's Avatar
    You seem to be overly focused on a subset of a single market. It doesn't translate in any significant way to global numbers.
    Read my response a few posts up. In regards to Apple over 40% of device sales are here in the America's with deals galore. (I would bet almost identical number as far as Samsung and their "flagship" Galaxy S devices.)

    It's just the way it is here in US (where I reside and thus experience) plain and simple. Nobody here has to or does pay full flagship prices for new devices and most amortize. All the devices are discounted for new and existing customers in some fashion ALL the time. If those "sweetners" were to stop sales would immediately see a massive correction.
    06-10-21 11:03 AM
  8. pdr733's Avatar
    You seem to be overly focused on a subset of a single market. It doesn't translate in any significant way to global numbers.
    Actually I somehow lost track of what bh7171`s problem is:
    - failure of BBOS/BB10 OS?
    - lack of mainstream PKB phones?
    - second or third tier OEMs like LG, HTC etc. struggling in the market or giving up making phones altogether?

    These are different questions.
    06-10-21 11:05 AM
  9. pdr733's Avatar
    If those "sweetners" were to stop sales would immediately see a massive correction.
    Massive correction towards what? Absent deals, financing, etc. in your view what would be the consumer's preference?
    I think this is an important question to answer in order to understand where are you coming from.
    06-10-21 11:09 AM
  10. idssteve's Avatar
    One of Apple's attributes contributing to their continued success among consumers AND enterprise has included "consistency". "Re-invention of the wheel" demands skill set development learning curve investment. Investment demanding justification. Many skill sets mastered on Apple many years ago remain relevant. Quite a few of folks in my circles are "acquiescing" into Apple simply out of "drama fatigue".

    Fast as my motorcycle might be, it needs to be two or three times faster than a four seat car to transport 3 or 4 persons. Lol.

    My Bold is 3x faster wpm than K1 or D60, in my hand. That speed makes Bold worth the trouble for my use case. My K2 achieves barely double wpm of D60. Still a worth while trade off for MY use case but barely. Maybe not fast enough to attract mass consumer interest?

    Failure of a given PKB device to deliver anticipated (Bold like?) experience might tarnish PKB enthusiasm. Already has?
    06-10-21 11:38 AM
  11. conite's Avatar
    Read my response a few posts up. In regards to Apple over 40% of device sales are here in the America's with deals galore. (I would bet almost identical number as far as Samsung and their "flagship" Galaxy S devices.)

    It's just the way it is here in US (where I reside and thus experience) plain and simple. Nobody here has to or does pay full flagship prices for new devices and most amortize. All the devices are discounted for new and existing customers in some fashion ALL the time. If those "sweetners" were to stop sales would immediately see a massive correction.
    But people are still paying for the hardware anyway - either via cash or carrier fees. Money is money.
    06-10-21 12:14 PM
  12. howarmat's Avatar
    But people are still paying for the hardware anyway - either via cash or carrier fees. Money is money.
    And that is what it comes down to. 5 lines via ATT @$35/line for 36 months equates to about $2500 more than with xfinity even with the discounts on the phones added in for both ATT and XM. I will gladly pay extra on the phones and not be locked into 36 months of bill credits to get my “savings” especially when it actually costs more.
    pdr733 and 3800 like this.
    06-10-21 12:31 PM
  13. idssteve's Avatar
    And that is what it comes down to. 5 lines via ATT @$35/line for 36 months equates to about $2500 more than with xfinity even with the discounts on the phones added in for both ATT and XM. I will gladly pay extra on the phones and not be locked into 36 months of bill credits to get my “savings” especially when it actually costs more.
    Sorta a SAF model disguised as a "freebie"... Lol.
    06-10-21 01:36 PM
  14. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    And that is what it comes down to. 5 lines via ATT @$35/line for 36 months equates to about $2500 more than with xfinity even with the discounts on the phones added in for both ATT and XM. I will gladly pay extra on the phones and not be locked into 36 months of bill credits to get my “savings” especially when it actually costs more.
    But are your getting the same service from Xfinity?

    Xfinity is a MVNO and has the same limitations as any other MVNO.... those might not be an issue for you most the time, but they are there. I've used Xfinity for a bit (more as a temp way to come back as a new customer to Verizon after 90 days), and I know their service is great. But I also know that when we had a natural disaster here, that being 3rd class on a network was not something I wanted to experience. I've also been to big football games where folks using a MVNO on the same network as me, had almost no data connection at all, while I was able to stream another game with no issue.
    Yesterday 07:29 AM
  15. saint300's Avatar
    And here's Adam's full review of TP:

    the_boon and bh7171 like this.
    Yesterday 08:32 AM
  16. howarmat's Avatar
    But are your getting the same service from Xfinity?

    Xfinity is a MVNO and has the same limitations as any other MVNO.... those might not be an issue for you most the time, but they are there. I've used Xfinity for a bit (more as a temp way to come back as a new customer to Verizon after 90 days), and I know their service is great. But I also know that when we had a natural disaster here, that being 3rd class on a network was not something I wanted to experience. I've also been to big football games where folks using a MVNO on the same network as me, had almost no data connection at all, while I was able to stream another game with no issue.
    There is a small chance of deprioritization but since I am not unlimited I have higher priority than most. And never had an issue in the last 3-4 years with them
    Yesterday 10:16 AM
  17. saint300's Avatar
    There is a small chance of deprioritization but since I am not unlimited I have higher priority than most. And never had an issue in the last 3-4 years with them
    I am sorry to interrupt, but isn't all this slightly off-topic?
    Yesterday 11:32 AM
  18. saint300's Avatar
    And this is from Unihertz:

    "Dear Backers,

    Great news!

    We are glad to announce that the Titan Pocket had passed CE/FCC and JATE/TELEC certification, which is ahead of our current schedule!

    There's only one week left to the campaign. We are happy to see that the campaign is 1,503% funded with $752,598 USD raised and the support of 3,240 backers."
    the_boon, app_Developer and bh7171 like this.
    Yesterday 11:33 AM
  19. the_boon's Avatar
    And this is from Unihertz:

    "Dear Backers,

    Great news!

    We are glad to announce that the Titan Pocket had passed CE/FCC and JATE/TELEC certification, which is ahead of our current schedule!

    There's only one week left to the campaign. We are happy to see that the campaign is 1,503% funded with $752,598 USD raised and the support of 3,240 backers."
    About $20k away from Titan Kickstarter amount, though they got a bit backers for this one.

    Adam's review is nice, I wish the keys weren't as hard to press as he says they are initially, but if that's something that breaks in over a few weeks then it's a non-issue for me.
    saint300 and bh7171 like this.
    Yesterday 12:24 PM
  20. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I am sorry to interrupt, but isn't all this slightly off-topic?
    Not really since it will determine usability in the USA for many in the coming months as 3G is shutdown and this device will then only have VoLTE or it won’t.
    Yesterday 01:36 PM
  21. saint300's Avatar
    Not really since it will determine usability in the USA for many in the coming months as 3G is shutdown and this device will then only have VoLTE or it won’t.
    What you are sayin' is totally absurd, not to mention you are again off-off topic.

    First off, this device will have 4G, therefore 3G shutdown is irrelevant here. Next, all the above discussion was about anything but the device relevant. Please go check again what this discussion was about and prove to me that it was not off-topic. Because dear Chuck, this is not a thread about how good, price-wise is a given network, it is about the upcoming device, which you are not fond of at all, I know. And that's ok with me, but please focus on the actual thread for once, could you?
    Yesterday 01:51 PM
  22. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    What you are sayin' is totally absurd, not to mention you are again off-off topic.

    First off, this device will have 4G, therefore 3G shutdown is irrelevant here. Next, all the above discussion was about anything but the device relevant. Please go check again what this discussion was about and prove to me that it was not off-topic. Because dear Chuck, this is not a thread about how good, price-wise is a given network, it is about the upcoming device, which you are not fond of at all, I know. And that's ok with me, but please focus on the actual thread for once, could you?
    In the USA, VoLTE won’t be guaranteed for the new PKB from Unihertz by all or any carriers. That’s a simple fact.
    Yesterday 02:03 PM
  23. saint300's Avatar
    In the USA, VoLTE won’t be guaranteed for the new PKB from Unihertz by all or any carriers. That’s a simple fact.
    Let me ask you this; have you actually watched the latest youtube video I posted? Maybe not? Because if you had, you wouldn't be saying that, me thinks.
    Yesterday 02:05 PM
  24. conite's Avatar
    Let me ask you this; have you actually watched the latest youtube video I posted? Maybe not? Because if you had, you wouldn't be saying that, me thinks.
    Pocket will not work on AT&T next year.
    Yesterday 02:31 PM
  25. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Let me ask you this; have you actually watched the latest youtube video I posted? Maybe not? Because if you had, you wouldn't be saying that, me thinks.
    Yes I have and he addresses that. Specifically AT&T, NO, VZW doesn’t answer but assumed NO based on current VoLTE rules that are strict like AT&T just started. VZW has been stricter that AT&T for years. TMO lenient but will that remain? Sprint was far more restrictive than VZW and TMO paid a lot of money for that Sprint customer base that happily purchased carrier locked devices almost exclusively. My background in M&A tells me TMO factored that policy into a higher price to pay for merger. If you look at TMO USA company website, a list of supported devices exists which is ridiculous to compile unless enforcement planned.
    app_Developer likes this.
    Yesterday 03:29 PM
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