[hurds]

This seems pretty simple to me. Samsung is the only company having any relative success with 'droid. Some are just getting by, others are losing cash.

Why do people think android is any good? Its free so people have used it but its proven to be unprofitable for most. Sasumg deserves all the credit for their marketing, product design, scale, specs and what they've been able to squeeze out of android.

We have Ubuntu, Firefox OS and Tizen coming in the near future. These could all prove devastating to Android. It has the furthest to fall and is pretty much similar to all the mentioned OSes. OEMs could easily push another platform and completely annihilate android. Googles been lucky to have all the development and userbase behind it to evolve their platform but Moto is losing them money. I cant imagine investors being happy with this. Google has shown they are fine blocking services to other devices in attempts to drive people to their platform. This flys in the face of their historical 'we want to be in front of as many eyes as possible' for their advertising revenue. Its looking more and more like google is almost in the opportune situation to completely close off OEMs. But its fine, cause the OEMs are prepared and have some amazing alternatives. But people should get ready to say good bye to their beloved marketshare.

But going back to the point that Samsung has been the only success (marketshare and revenue are the only thing that matter to a lot of users, oddly to me since that has zero baring on what phone I buy). Why is it that people seem to be giving HTC a chance? They've made bomb after bomb. What happened to the Nokia clone they made? Does anyone know? I could be wrong. Its pretty ridiculous the amount of negativity you can read about bb (although Im noticing a huge upswing in positive BB sentiment, but naysayers still seem to like the 'BB could die' even though theyve been dead wrong themselves this whole time). Yet HTC has been horrible and they get thrown into the category of devices to watch out for. Its not because of android, although the rom-flashing, widget loving, app-or-nothing customization-freaks believe differently.

The truth is everyone is in competition even though it gets pitted that it everyone against BB. To the analysts honestly believe BB isnt making a huge push into the consumer market? While completely maintaining their enterprise appeal (actually expanding services to it aswell with MDM for android/ios). Right now I use an iphone and use the 'stocks' apps and have looked at all the news since 2 years ago so I'd think youd have to be insane to not see a greater negative slant on BB. But heres the thing. I've mentioned here some possible huge competition Android faces. But why isn't it ever position as this in the media. Everyone is in competition with everyone. Do people actually thinkg Android and iOS are untouchable? Apples already had a big fall after some predictions were for it to go to $1000. Lots of people here think stock market predicts whats going to happen. Googles up to 800 right now in the markets. I could easily see their stock graph looking like apples has the past 6 months soon.

So what makes the HTC one so great? past history says it should suck, much like people havent given BB much credit. Why don't we hear Google and Apple face the most competition, they have the farthest to fall and as we've seen before with BB, those on top fall the hardest.

Or are you like me and think the HTC one is just another android dud while z10 is the real deal. And this duopoly is destined to topple.

[katesbb]

The other 9 see it as a decent phone and would be happy to look at other options when their contract is up.

Same in my office. It's a mix of iPhones and Androids, and to be honest I bet half of them don't even know which they own. They just buy whatever their friend or family has, or whatever was on sale at the moment. They aren't loyal to an OS.

[raysgrumpy]

I really liked my HTC One S and my wife loves hers. She's had HTC Android phones since the G1 (first Android phone made.) They have all been good, quality phones. When the One X came out, it was routinely considered one of the top phones available. I keep hearing stories on here about friends /co workers that don't care that their phone is Android and are open to change at the end of the contract, but Blackberry continues to lose market share and Android keeps gaining. In the world's largest market (China), cheap Android phones are the overwhelming phone of choice. With so many Google products /services being integral to people's lives and their easy integration in to Android, they aren't going anywhere

[katiepea]

People think android is good yes. It owns 70% of the global smartphone market share. Its customizability is likely why it has such a large following. 2 android phones of the exact model can be dramatically different. Everything is replaceable, even the os. HTC isn't really a threat to anyone for a while now. Samsung has won the battle. Its very likely manufacturers will eventually put Ubuntu on devices as well. Even if android somehow died overnight it would still be the top os for a long time. Its trusted by businesses for byod, used by the government in some situations, offers the public quality hardware that they can change the software on to their liking, and a development community the likes that no other os has ever seen. There are still developers making things for the first android phone ever released. My 2 year old HTC still has developers updating it to the latest android version which is 3 os versions higher than when I purchased the phone. It still runs fantastically too. Android provides long term survival of expensive purchases in a marketplace that wants you to upgrade every year. It also offers free services that others pay for. I get 200gb of free mp3 storage that streams or caches to my phone, free office suite with cloud services, free exchange level email services, etc

[Hawkeberry]

I think Android is good. I have an Android phone. I can make calls / send text using SMS, WhatsApp and gtalk, has the 5-6 apps that I use, looks fantastic and has a great screen. Also has a great community support at XDA (for almost every Android phone). For my next phone, there are three contenders - A Samsung, a Sony and a Q10

[hurds]

AAPL: Jefferies Sees iPhone, Samsung Pause; BBRY Z10 Sales ‘Going Well’ - Tech Trader Daily - Barrons.com

From the article:

"In advance of the Mobile World Congress event coming next week in Barcelona, Spain, the biggest mobile trade show of the year, Misek offers some clipped observations on things to look for:

No Galaxy S4; expected mid-March in NYC event. Expect Tizen handsets and mid-tier Galaxy upgrades. Samsung Galaxy Note 8.0. Tablets with ranges of 7”, 8”, and 10”; also expect a monster tablet much bigger than 10”. Samsung for Enterprise (SAFE) will be re-announced; however, with little in the way of real MDM capability and at best a small investment in a private start- up we expect very little to excite on this front."

I get that Samsung eventually was able to get a decent product out of their galaxy line of phones I just see android for what it is. A free OS given away to OEMs to achieve marketshare. It attained that and a lot of developers made apps for android which is great. But as we see with Samsungs domination, its not android that special. Its Samsung. Aside from that 9/10 phones at carrier stores are 'droid so people really shouldn't be surprised by a high marketshare. I think thats where we get people like the ones mentioned in the posts above that have android but really have no clue what it is. Thats the reality of things with general consumers who really dont care too much about tech. They just go into a store and buy whats recommended if they don't know what they want already.

So with Samsung the number 1 android vendor releasing some Tizen phones this does not bode well for Android. It'll be interesting to see. I'd rather see it fall sooner than later. Add some competition to things and show people how easily things can change, cause for some reason people forget history repeats itself and the only constant is change. With the new BB10 coming out it will also be interesting to see how 'droid and iphone sales are affected (as mentioned in the article). They released the phone3 in markets that arent as app-crazyas the US, were some of these 'must-have' apps arent even used. 3

I'm hoping in the US there is carrier support cause its critical to BB success, much like androids rise.

[hurds]

People think android is good yes. It owns 70% of the global smartphone market share. Its customizability is likely why it has such a large following. 2 android phones of the exact model can be dramatically different. Everything is replaceable, even the os. HTC isn't really a threat to anyone for a while now. Samsung has won the battle. Its very likely manufacturers will eventually put Ubuntu on devices as well. Even if android somehow died overnight it would still be the top os for a long time. Its trusted by businesses for byod, used by the government in some situations, offers the public quality hardware that they can change the software on to their liking, and a development community the likes that no other os has ever seen. There are still developers making things for the first android phone ever released. My 2 year old HTC still has developers updating it to the latest android version which is 3 os versions higher than when I purchased the phone. It still runs fantastically too. Android provides long term survival of expensive purchases in a marketplace that wants you to upgrade every year. It also offers free services that others pay for. I get 200gb of free mp3 storage that streams or caches to my phone, free office suite with cloud services, free exchange level email services, etc

'free'. I personal find that googles 'free' services cost too much.

[Tre Lawrence]

People "believe" in mobile OSes?

It's a tool... nothing more. If it fails, we move on. Choice is good, so I look for all to be successful. The day it actually is more of a valid con for Google, the developmental plug might be pulled... oh well.

I'm grateful for Ubuntu, for Tizen, for BB10, for iOS, et al. As long as options remain, we'll be okay. I could make it on just about any mobile OS with concessions, and I am not special by any means.

[Tre Lawrence]

And BTW, I fully agree that most mobile OS users could not tell you the OS on their devices, especially Android users.

[Tre Lawrence]

Samsung's problem is Google. The Nexus 4 at $394.98 is going to drive the margins to the floor in the Android device space.

To answer your question, I can only speak about the 10 people in my office with Android phones. One of those people is a full-on cultist. The other 9 see it as a decent phone and would be happy to look at other options when their contract is up.

I'd like to see a scientific poll about the most open-minded (meaning, most willing to dabble into other OSes) mobile OS users. I think BB and Android users may be near the top.

[hurds]

People "believe" in mobile OSes?

It's a tool... nothing more. If it fails, we move on. Choice is good, so I look for all to be successful. The day it actually is more of a valid con for Google, the developmental plug might be pulled... oh well.

I'm grateful for Ubuntu, for Tizen, for BB10, for iOS, et al. As long as options remain, we'll be okay. I could make it on just about any mobile OS with concessions, and I am not special by any means.

Come on trelawrence. You and I both know there are fanatics that 'believe' in OSes. We have diehards on all sides. Maybe its not the greatest word but I believe in BB10. I'm aware of my believe though, some aren't. Not saying you, but we got a lot here.

[aniym]

I don't understand why this keeps on needing into be said, but the only the bare bones Android source code is free.

If OEMs want Google apps like gmail, maps and the app store, they have to pay Google license fees as well as $15 per per unit to Microsoft in patent licensing fees. When was the last time you saw a mainstream Android phone come without Google services?

that said, I agree Tizen could be a threat to Android as it has Samsung's backing and Samsung is almost definitely looking to break away from Google. Being dependent on them for the continued success of the Galaxy brand is risky for them. As for Ubuntu and Mozilla OS neither have any confirmed hardware partners yet and their developer outreach strategy is iffy at best.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

[Tre Lawrence]

Come on trelawrence. You and I both know there are fanatics that 'believe' in OSes. We have diehards on all sides. Maybe its not the greatest word but I believe in BB10. I'm aware of my believe though, some aren't. Not saying you, but we got a lot here.

Without a doubt. I always smile when folks claim BB users are crazies. Every mobile OS has its share of people who are a bit too invested in the OS wars LOL. You should see some of the guys and gals at the Android forums. It gets scary.

I don't have any illusions. Google doesn't care about me. They care about what I represent. I buy into the saying that if a product is free, then I am the product. Frankly (and I know folks will think I'm crazy for saying this), if I had money to gamble, I'd gamble on BB10's long term prognosis over Google's. Why? Not necessarily because I think one OS is better, but there is something worrisome about Google's approach with Android. I can't shake the feeling that it is a great experiment that is going well now, but as I said earlier, what happens if/when the cost of development + legal fees + licensing costs more than the information profit they get? I have NO doubt that Google could just ditch the whole Android project, and without Google footing the bill, I don't think it would survive as a 100% open-source project.

Plus, BBRY has desperation on its side.

Maybe my approach is weird, and I concede that. I just cannot get too wrapped up in consumer technology. I love toys... I love discussing technology, and I love tinkering. I like using Android, but not so much that I am not chomping at the bit to use BB10. And WP8. And maybe even iOS some day... LOL.

[Tre Lawrence]

I don't understand why this keeps on needing into be said, but the only the bare bones Android source code is free.

If OEMs want Google apps like gmail, maps and the app store, they have to pay Google license fees as well as $15 per per unit to Microsoft in patent licensing fees. When was the last time you saw a mainstream Android phone come without Google services?

that said, I agree Tizen could be a threat to Android as it has Samsung's backing and Samsung is almost definitely looking to break away from Google. Being dependent on them for the continued success of the Galaxy brand is risky for them. As for Ubuntu and Mozilla OS neither have any confirmed hardware partners yet and their developer outreach strategy is iffy at best.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

Android is still relatively cheap, I believe. For that relatively low price, they (Android OEMs) are getting the Google suit plus the only app ecosystem that can really compete with the Apple juggernaut right now.

Samsung has the money right now, and I would think it realizes that consumer technology is a pendulum. I don't believe it'll be leaving Android ANYTIME soon, but it makes sense for it to look at every angle for the future.

[omniusovermind]

And BTW, I fully agree that most mobile OS users could not tell you the OS on their devices, especially Android users.

That's the lame part. This is purely anecdotal, but I do have to say that of all the people I know who are NOT into tech, almost every single one of them with a Samsung android phone had zero idea what they owned, other than it's a "smartphone".

rant/
People like that **** me off. I never spend that much money on ANY electronics without knowing everything I can about it before making my purchase. That goes for everything from TV's to washing machines. People like that are as bad as people who buy HDTV's without knowing if they bought a plasma or LCD. Or in the case of many Mac owners, who have no idea at all what OS is on their MacBook, and just think it's an Apple "laptop".
/rant

[katiepea]

That's the lame part. This is purely anecdotal, but I do have to say that of all the people I know who are NOT into tech, almost every single one of them with a Samsung android phone had zero idea what they owned, other than it's a "smartphone".

rant/
People like that **** me off. I never spend that much money on ANY electronics without knowing everything I can about it before making my purchase. That goes for everything from TV's to washing machines. People like that are as bad as people who buy HDTV's without knowing if they bought a plasma or LCD. Or in the case of many Mac owners, who have no idea at all what OS is on their MacBook, and just think it's an Apple "laptop".
/rant

The evidence you just posted for people not knowing their os is in fact your personal experience, the very definition of anecdotal. XDA developers site has several million members. That's just one site. That number of people has influence potential. I believe the number of people aware of their os is higher than you think. The number of folks modifying their phones is without doubt into the tens of millions. Beside this number there are plenty of reasons people are buying Samsung devices. As of right now there is no more functional smartphone on the market.

[omniusovermind]

Without a doubt. I always smile when folks claim BB users are crazies. Every mobile OS has its share of people who are a bit too invested in the OS wars LOL. You should see some of the guys and gals at the Android forums. It gets scary.

I don't have any illusions. Google doesn't care about me. They care about what I represent. I buy into the saying that if a product is free, then I am the product. Frankly (and I know folks will think I'm crazy for saying this), if I had money to gamble, I'd gamble on BB10's long term prognosis over Google's. Why? Not necessarily because I think one OS is better, but there is something worrisome about Google's approach with Android. I can't shake the feeling that it is a great experiment that is going well now, but as I said earlier, what happens if/when the cost of development + legal fees + licensing costs more than the information profit they get? I have NO doubt that Google could just ditch the whole Android project, and without Google footing the bill, I don't think it would survive as a 100% open-source project.

Plus, BBRY has desperation on its side.

Maybe my approach is weird, and I concede that. I just cannot get too wrapped up in consumer technology. I love toys... I love discussing technology, and I love tinkering. I like using Android, but not so much that I am not chomping at the bit to use BB10. And WP8. And maybe even iOS some day... LOL.

Heck anything could happen. Blackberry's MDM could explode in the business world make BB into a monster company on par with MS or Apple for all we know. I'm in agreement with you that there is potential for Google to drop to 3rd place. MS and Apple both have a huge presence in the PC industry and software industry, whereas Google's product line is almost purely on the internet. And their applications for business are largely a joke. Chrome OS is ok for low end stuff but is otherwise a stinker. I'm getting the gut feeling that Android is at it's peak right now. I wouldn't be surprised to see MS and Apple sitting at the top in mobile space by 2015 just like they are in both personal and business computers and software, with BB and Android coming in at 3rd. I know a lot of people are rooting for BB to be at the top two, but I just cannot see this happening with their small portfolio. Their MDM while fairly popular, would really have to explode into huge proportions.

@aniym
no they are not "looking" to break away from Android. Do you often predict that companies are looking to break away from their biggest earners? Samsung are doing what every company does - they're making a Plan B in case they need it by diversifying instead of putting all eggs in one basket. You're reading too much into it.

[omniusovermind]

The number of folks modifying their phones is without doubt into the tens of millions. Beside this number there are plenty of reasons people are buying Samsung devices. As of right now there is no more functional smartphone on the market .

Do you have any evidence to support either claim? There's not, nor has ever been anything to suggest tens of millions of people mod their phones. I could combine the total member count on every modding and iPhone jailbreaking website out there, average out the number a bit based on how many members are the same people, and probably come up with a figure of tens of thousands.

No other phone on the market is more functional than Samsungs? You're creeping pretty close to fanaticism with that. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're one of those people who don't believe that marketing branding is a huge reason for Samsung's success, and that you'll tell me they just have superior phones to all other Android OEM's.

[hurds]

Without a doubt. I always smile when folks claim BB users are crazies. Every mobile OS has its share of people who are a bit too invested in the OS wars LOL. You should see some of the guys and gals at the Android forums. It gets scary.

I don't have any illusions. Google doesn't care about me. They care about what I represent. I buy into the saying that if a product is free, then I am the product. Frankly (and I know folks will think I'm crazy for saying this), if I had money to gamble, I'd gamble on BB10's long term prognosis over Google's. Why? Not necessarily because I think one OS is better, but there is something worrisome about Google's approach with Android. I can't shake the feeling that it is a great experiment that is going well now, but as I said earlier, what happens if/when the cost of development + legal fees + licensing costs more than the information profit they get? I have NO doubt that Google could just ditch the whole Android project, and without Google footing the bill, I don't think it would survive as a 100% open-source project.

Plus, BBRY has desperation on its side.

Maybe my approach is weird, and I concede that. I just cannot get too wrapped up in consumer technology. I love toys... I love discussing technology, and I love tinkering. I like using Android, but not so much that I am not chomping at the bit to use BB10. And WP8. And maybe even iOS some day... LOL.

Well put. Definitely going to be interesting.

Google just had an analyst give a $1000 target price. I can't help but feel after apple had the same thing that its now a bad omen for things to come.

[katiepea]

Do you have any evidence to support either claim? There's not, nor has ever been anything to suggest tens of millions of people mod their phones. I could combine the total member count on every modding and iPhone jailbreaking website out there, average out the number a bit based on how many members are the same people, and probably come up with a figure of tens of thousands.

No other phone on the market is more functional than Samsungs? You're creeping pretty close to fanaticism with that. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're one of those people who don't believe that marketing branding is a huge reason for Samsung's success, and that you'll tell me they just have superior phones to all other Android OEM's.

sure
CyanogenMod - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Although only a subset of total CyanogenMod users elect to report their use of the firmware, as of 31 December 2012, CyanogenMod has recorded over 3.6 million active installs on a multitude of devices.

that's just one modified OS, and ONLY those willing to report that they've installed it. it's not even a small stretch to claim 10+ million modded android devices. that's an assumed at this point. also no, i'm not a fan of samsung devices. don't own one, won't own one. google just sold its 1 millionth nexus 4. that's a pretty niche model, loved mostly by the developer community.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)
Android had a worldwide smartphone market share of 75% during the third quarter of 2012, with 500 million devices activated in total and 1.3 million activations per day.
1.3 million activations per day. 500 million total this means 2% of the total android user base modding their devices would be above 10 million. just 2%. that isn't hard to believe whatsoever. in polls on the subject that number has been closer to 15% in reality. apps in the android market like "titanium backup and setcpu" are only available to rooted devices, yet they're consistently in the top 10 apps in the market, often times #1 & #2. rooting and installing a new OS isn't hard these days. most devices have apps that you can just click one button to root and install a new OS. it's painless even for the clueless.

[katiepea]

Well put. Definitely going to be interesting.

Google just had an analyst give a $1000 target price. I can't help but feel after apple had the same thing that its now a bad omen for things to come.

i would agree with you, i do however note that google has much much much more room to grow than apple does. everything apple does is "in-house" google can expand a lot further than apple ever will be able to. project glass and android are good examples of this.

[omniusovermind]

sure
CyanogenMod - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Although only a subset of total CyanogenMod users elect to report their use of the firmware, as of 31 December 2012, CyanogenMod has recorded over 3.6 million active installs on a multitude of devices.

that's just one modified OS, and ONLY those willing to report that they've installed it. it's not even a small stretch to claim 10+ million modded android devices. that's an assumed at this point. also no, i'm not a fan of samsung devices. don't own one, won't own one. google just sold its 1 millionth nexus 4. that's a pretty niche model, loved mostly by the developer community.

Android (operating system) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Android had a worldwide smartphone market share of 75% during the third quarter of 2012, with 500 million devices activated in total and 1.3 million activations per day.
1.3 million activations per day. 500 million total this means 2% of the total android user base modding their devices would be above 10 million. just 2%. that isn't hard to believe whatsoever. in polls on the subject that number has been closer to 15% in reality. apps in the android market like "titanium backup and setcpu" are only available to rooted devices, yet they're consistently in the top 10 apps in the market, often times #1 & #2. rooting and installing a new OS isn't hard these days. most devices have apps that you can just click one button to root and install a new OS. it's painless even for the clueless.

Thanks for expanding on that. Your initial wording I found misleading as "tens of millions" could end up being an incredibly high number. Your more recent post citing just 10 million at the highest end is far more believable and roughly in line with what I've heard most other estimates say.

[Greenghost]

And BTW, I fully agree that most mobile OS users could not tell you the OS on their devices, especially Android users.

Hahahaha

Sent from my Sprint Galaxy Nexus rockin 4.2.2 using Tapatalk 2

[RubberChicken76]

My software developer friends love Android.

Most of my non-nerdy friends either don't know or barely know they have an Android. They bought a Samsung Galaxy or a cheap HTC phone

[Tre Lawrence]

My software developer friends love Android.

Most of my non-nerdy friends either don't know or barely know they have an Android. They bought a Samsung Galaxy or a cheap HTC phone

I love modding, tinkering, adjusting and fine-tuning. Big reason for using it.