1. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    As someone who splits my time between BB10 (Z10/Passport) and an Android phone (KEYone), one of the items that consistently annoys me on Android is the lack of consistency of features, interfaces, and data handling between apps. It's just the nature of the widely distributed developer network that we get a bunch of single-purpose apps that don't share information or inter-operate in any meaningful way, pretty much the opposite of the experience that users enjoy on the Mac, Linux and Windows PCs that they use for serious work, where data and files are freely shared across applications constantly.

    One of the reasons I still use a BB10 phone for 90%+ of my work is that I don't have to deal with that friction between productivity apps. Using the stock Blackberry apps and file manager, I can power through all of my business communications with very little frustration, compared to Android.

    At the same time, I really, really, really, want to like Android, and I've been impressed with it's rapid development and improvement over the past few years, especially the focus on security and user control over app permissions, notifications, etc.

    So, it makes me happy to see that Google is paying attention to the need for consistency in a major way with its latest announcement that it will be enforcing the use of its most current API for apps on the app store. Hopefully this will chase many of the pointless, unprofessional, crap apps out of the Play Store over time, as devs will be forced to update their code to comply with each new API. This simple gesture towards emphasizing quality over quantity is long overdue!

    Obviously this is not a panacea for everything I don't like about Android's distributed development mess. But, hopefully this is the start of Google ending the wild west days of app development and enforcing standards, quality, and consistency for apps in the Play Store.

    You can read the full announcement here:

    https://android-developers.googleblo...rformance.html
    arif b santoso likes this.
    12-22-17 10:20 AM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Sound like your warming up to the idea of Android.... acceptance then?

    Android has come a long way from 2010 when BlackBerry first announced their own new OS.... and many here wondered why they didn't use Android then. Even with only two platforms now, they both will force one another to keep improving. So continued improvements are to be expected.
    12-22-17 12:29 PM
  3. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    Actually I have to say what you call the 'wild west' of app development is actually what I see as a benefit and a reason behind Android's success. Micromanagement is Apple's domain. I am fine with the concept the developer has full control over the immersiveness, look, feel, and function of apps, and even certain aspects of the OS. Just make sure they stay optional. I don't want Google controlling every aspect of the Android experience any more than I want the developers to do it.

    Having said that, the OS still needs to rule the day. All customizations should remain at the app level only. In other words, I should be able to either disable or uninstall ANY app put on the phone by an oem, including those that alter the touch and feel of the OS, so I can default to the exact same bare minimum Android OS experience on any device. Google's domain is, quite rightly I think, maintaining a baseline Android experience for all users.

    That's what personal choice is all about, and I hope that's is ultimately what Google is after here, not forcing a bunch of stupid and unnecessary rules on developers.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    12-22-17 01:46 PM
  4. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Sound like your warming up to the idea of Android.... acceptance then?

    Android has come a long way from 2010 when BlackBerry first announced their own new OS.... and many here wondered why they didn't use Android then. Even with only two platforms now, they both will force one another to keep improving. So continued improvements are to be expected.
    I have always supported the IDEA of Android. But it's still a long ways from what I want out if a mobile OS, and it may be 2020 before I actually would want to use it as a daily driver.

    When it comes to technology, I have no emotional attachments to any platform. Before Android M, with granular permissions, I found Android to be a non-starter. N-O are moving in the right direction very quickly. But I still see a ton of work to do. Seeing Google take a stronger hand is encouraging.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    The_Passporter likes this.
    12-22-17 02:43 PM
  5. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Actually I have to say what you call the 'wild west' of app development is actually what I see as a benefit and a reason behind Android's success. Micromanagement is Apple's domain. I am fine with the concept the developer has full control over the immersiveness, look, feel, and function of apps, and even certain aspects of the OS. Just make sure they stay optional. I don't want Google controlling every aspect of the Android experience any more than I want the developers to do it.

    Having said that, the OS still needs to rule the day. All customizations should remain at the app level only. In other words, I should be able to either disable or uninstall ANY app put on the phone by an oem, including those that alter the touch and feel of the OS, so I can default to the exact same bare minimum Android OS experience on any device. Google's domain is, quite rightly I think, maintaining a baseline Android experience for all users.

    That's what personal choice is all about, and I hope that's is ultimately what Google is after here, not forcing a bunch of stupid and unnecessary rules on developers.
    I am generally in agreement, with a couple of caveats.

    1). There needs to be centralized management of things like permissions and notifications. It's crazy to have to tweak 100+ apps individually to tailor a new profile or find out which apps can access my contacts.

    2) If Google isn't going to do it, then Devs need to start standardizing the handling of certain tasks through collaboration and agreements, the way that IEEE does for hardware.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-22-17 02:45 PM
  6. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    I am generally in agreement, with a couple of caveats. 1). There needs to be centralized management of things like permissions and notifications. It's crazy to have to tweak 100+ apps individually to tailor a new profile or find out which apps can access my contacts.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I agree it is tedious, but at the same time a necessary evil if we truly want to have granular controls. A more efficient and permanent way of remembering these settings (and restoring them) is really all that is needed...including the ability to transfer them from one device to another. There you go, another enhanced feature BlackBerry can add to Android. I should be getting paid for this, lol.

    I also agree with you 100% that Android was a non-starter prior to these controls existing. Yet another example of how we were quite spoiled with BB10 *as a beautiful and elegant OS* and how much it was ahead of its time...despite what the many pundits and haters would have us believe.
    MBrettH likes this.
    12-22-17 03:03 PM
  7. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I agree it is tedious, but at the same time a necessary evil if we truly want to have granular controls. A more efficient and permanent way of remembering these settings (and restoring them) is really all that is needed...including the ability to transfer them from one device to another.
    Sure. I have no problem with the settings being available at the app level, so long as the OS has them all in a table and the ability to edit them all from a central location. I should be able to set up 4 or 5 (or 20) different notification profiles for different contexts and set the appropriate options for each app from the OS settings. Some people will say that there are apps to do that. I say BS. Something as central to the user experience as permissions and notifications needs a universal, built-in interface so that users can be trained and so that settings can be exported from one profile or device to another.
    BigBadWulf and MBrettH like this.
    12-22-17 04:04 PM
  8. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Will this doom the use of apks on BlackBerry 10 then?
    12-23-17 07:59 AM
  9. thurask's Avatar
    Will this doom the use of apks on BlackBerry 10 then?
    Indirectly; there's no provisions for a desired minimum API level, just target API level. That may change in the future as older Android versions fall off the face of the Earth, or as developers open up to the features offered by newer API levels, or as desirable things that can't get folded into the Android Support Library get introduced into Android.
    12-23-17 08:04 AM
  10. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Will this doom the use of apks on BlackBerry 10 then?
    It won't affect available APKs at all, but no developer who wants to distribute via the Play Store will create or update any apps without the current API version.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-23-17 10:28 AM
  11. Emaderton3's Avatar
    It won't affect available APKs at all, but no developer who wants to distribute via the Play Store will create or update any apps without the current API version.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I guess I was thinking in terms of compatibility with general app updates by the developer to incorporate these.
    12-23-17 10:55 AM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I guess I was thinking in terms of compatibility with general app updates by the developer to incorporate these.
    The current versions of apps will become increasingly incompatible with older versions, because, if they have to use the new APIs, they will start using features unsupported by the old ones.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-23-17 11:03 AM
  13. David Tyler's Avatar

    2) If Google isn't going to do it, then Devs need to start standardizing the handling of certain tasks through collaboration and agreements, the way that IEEE does for hardware.
    Is this what Chen was arguing for sometime ago? If there _were_ such a thing as a standard for apps, any OS could use them.

    -- and wouldn't _that_ be lovely?
    12-23-17 11:16 AM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Is this what Chen was arguing for sometime ago? If there _were_ such a thing as a standard for apps, any OS could use them.

    -- and wouldn't _that_ be lovely?
    Not really. John Chen wanted a standard between platforms, which basically exists in terms of development tools for iOS, Android and Windows apps on several IDEs.

    I'm referring to something much more limited within the Google Community.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-23-17 11:19 AM
  15. Emaderton3's Avatar
    The current versions of apps will become increasingly incompatible with older versions, because, if they have to use the new APIs, they will start using features unsupported by the old ones.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    That's what I was trying to say lol. You are much better at it!
    12-23-17 11:36 AM
  16. David Tyler's Avatar
    I'm referring to something much more limited within the Google Community.
    I strongly suspect Google's moves in this area will be a de facto way around permission controls.
    MBrettH likes this.
    12-23-17 11:53 AM
  17. conite's Avatar
    I strongly suspect Google's moves in this area will be a de facto way around permission controls.
    It's the opposite. It forces developers to use them.
    12-23-17 11:59 AM
  18. David Tyler's Avatar
    It's the opposite. It forces developers to use them.
    Well, at the moment, I've got all GPS permissions turned off, and my apps are running fine. I have a feeling that won't be the case in the future...
    12-23-17 12:01 PM
  19. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    Well, at the moment, I've got all GPS permissions turned off, and my apps are running fine. I have a feeling that won't be the case in the future...
    And you thought that did something? Think again lol.

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...ower-tracking/
    12-23-17 06:17 PM
  20. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    And you thought that did something? Think again lol.

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...ower-tracking/
    It depends what his objectives are. You can run an Android phone in such a way as to drastically reduce the amount of information shared with Google. I use an alias for my Android account, don't use any Google Apps , turn off location services and use Firefox with some privacy add one. That seems sufficient to prevent my mobile use data being associated with my identities on another computers for tracking purposes, which is my main objective.

    There is no such thing as perfect security, anonymity or privacy on the Internet, but that doesn't mean that we have to simply volunteer all our information to by marketer who asks.

    I've run experiments, and the Google-served ads I see with the protections I use are much more diversified and random than when I don't use those protections. That's my main measure of success.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    MBrettH likes this.
    12-24-17 08:54 AM
  21. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    It depends what his objectives are. You can run an Android phone in such a way as to drastically reduce the amount of information shared with Google. I use an alias for my Android account, don't use any Google Apps , turn off location services and use Firefox with some privacy add one. That seems sufficient to prevent my mobile use data being associated with my identities on another computers for tracking purposes, which is my main objective.

    There is no such thing as perfect security, anonymity or privacy on the Internet, but that doesn't mean that we have to simply volunteer all our information to by marketer who asks.

    I've run experiments, and the Google-served ads I see with the protections I use are much more diversified and random than when I don't use those protections. That's my main measure of success.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Except according the article even with location services turned off, and they are still able to track your location.

    I see what you are saying, it is wise to 'reduce the surface area of the kernel' (lol) to the greatest possible extent. There is a difference between what we feel we are doing to limit our exposure though, and how effective these efforts really are. It goes far beyond advertising preferences.

    At the end of the day we are still betrayed by the same party to whom we pay the most money - our carriers. On Android, Google and the carriers have superseded our preferences by logging location data (per the cited reference) despite our best efforts to the contrary...and as long as our devices are linked to a carrier they have our number to speak...in every sense of term. I am not going to speculate about what they are doing or not doing with that data, and what is truly private versus what isn't...but one would have to be extremely naive to think that information is completely private and treated as such, or more safe simply by virtue of hiding behind an 'anonymous' Google account.
    12-24-17 01:10 PM
  22. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Except according the article even with location services turned off, and they are still able to track your location.

    I see what you are saying, it is wise to 'reduce the surface area of the kernel' (lol) to the greatest possible extent. There is a difference between what we feel we are doing to limit our exposure though, and how effective these efforts really are. It goes far beyond advertising preferences.

    At the end of the day we are still betrayed by the same party to whom we pay the most money - our carriers. On Android, Google and the carriers have superseded our preferences by logging location data (per the cited reference) despite our best efforts to the contrary...and as long as our devices are linked to a carrier they have our number to speak...in every sense of term. I am not going to speculate about what they are doing or not doing with that data, and what is truly private versus what isn't...but one would have to be extremely naive to think that information is completely private and treated as such, or more safe simply by virtue of hiding behind an 'anonymous' Google account.
    Certainly true. My particular beef is with giving up information about my browsing habits to marketers not simply for privacy reasons, but because I hate seeing the same targeted ads for stuff I already know about when I'm online!

    For example, I run a large season ticket partnership for my local MLB team, and we spend over $30,000 a year on our collective baseball habit. I'm subscribed to every relevant baseball news and Twitter feed. The one thing I DON'T need to see advertised is that team's promotions! But, if I just lived my normal online life without the protections I use, all I would see are baseball promotions!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-24-17 01:23 PM
  23. ntrev_cb's Avatar
    Some form of standardisation is a must. Recently moving from BB10 to the BB Android experience has been really frustrating and just goes to prove what a fantastic OS BB10 is. At present it feels like I'm going backwards into the future! Standardisation of some form is a must to make Android properly usable day to day.
    02-11-18 01:05 PM

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