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  1. grahamf's Avatar
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    Default Is there room in the smartphone market for WinPho7?

    The most popular smartphones are the iPhone, Blackberry, and Android.
    iPhone's strength: style, consistency. Weakness: restricted
    Android's strength: openness freedom. Weakness: inconsistent, can be preloaded with crap.
    Blackberry's strength: function, security, integration of applications into each other. Weakness: recently has rushed products to the market. RIM is currently reinventing the Blackberry.


    The problem is that Microsoft is Microsoft is planning on bringing out Windows Phone 7 which adds a new contestant to the flay.

    No I don't know about you but from what I've seen the average consumer has a hard time differencing between two smartphone OSs, let alone three or four. Not to mention that application developers will probably only develop for one or two handsets usually.


    So my question is: Which OSs will win and which will fade?
  2. dwaynewilliams#WN's Avatar
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    I don't think it is a matter of who will win, its what platforms will do well. I think that there is space for all four. I think that they will find their niche and it will be that. To be honest, WM7 seems like it will take more away from Android at this time. I say that because BlackBerry smartphones have become the go to devices for those who like physical keyboards. IPhones are for those engrossed in the itunes ecosystem and love their apps. Android is in between the two and I believe this is where WM7 will be as well. But only time will tell. But it will be fun to watch and see what happens.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
  3. TheScionicMan's Avatar
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    Somebody's got to fill the void left by the Kin phones...
    They talk about me like a dog, talkin' about the clothes I wear
    But they don't realize they're the ones who's square.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwaynewilliams View Post
    I don't think it is a matter of who will win, its what platforms will do well. I think that there is space for all four. I think that they will find their niche and it will be that. To be honest, WM7 seems like it will take more away from Android at this time. I say that because BlackBerry smartphones have become the go to devices for those who like physical keyboards. IPhones are for those engrossed in the itunes ecosystem and love their apps. Android is in between the two and I believe this is where WM7 will be as well. But only time will tell. But it will be fun to watch and see what happens.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I agree completely. WM7 will also grab the users looking for something new and hot... MS and HTC have manage to create a nice line up of hot new phones that will peak the interest of a lot of users. And the added Xbox Live ablity will grab a ton of uses as well and having Microsoft Office built in. I for one am really happy to see what MS has done. People seem to forget that Windows Mobile use to dominate and the HTC phones in the beginning where all wm6 phones.
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    I'm a longtime BB user and current android. But I'm not happy with the phone. Largely cuz of the crappy Office integration. Android just doesn't seem like a good fit for the serious business user. I have another 10 days and might be making the jump to WinPho.

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  6. falconeight's Avatar
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    WP7 is carving a line down the middle road. They will take customers from all three other systems.
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    I think Microsoft marketing missed something such as the announcement that the shipping department was sending the new phone to market.

    As a BB & Android user I might be interested but I'm left with the sour taste of past versions of Win mobile phones and the curious thought in my head of "Ok they have a new phone but what does it do that mine doesn't?

    For unshakable rock solid email, calendar and contacts I have my Blackberry. for multimedia, personal use, web browsing, I have my EVO.

    I'm not a fan boy of any particular device and I see several different mobile devices everyday as I am the email and mobile email admin for my employer. What I do know too is that in the weeks that new iPhones, Blackberrys and the different Android phones were released, my phone rings and I had many email messages for "How can I get my email on my new phone". So far with WM7, I haven't heard a single peep, not even "What for you think about blah, blah blah".

    I still wondering, what's the big deal about this? which leads me to wonder if this isn't going to work out well for the monster MS corp. I will say the x-Box part of sound intriguing, problem is if I want to play x-box games, I will go home and play them on the big screen so xbox gaming on a phone maked no sense to me.

    Now I did have my eyes on the the new Kinect for my xbox 360 until I found out that it doesn't work with existing games and there's only something like 17 titles for it. I think it's time to ditch the xBox and find a Wii
    Last edited by eBoyDog; 11-16-2010 at 03:13 PM.
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    WinMo7 wil be a real player, imo.

    It has already been adopted by HTC and tey are a very big player
    WinMo7 is one of the very few platforms that I could move to from BlackBerry.

    I hated WinMo6 and 6.5. It were so clunky and un-together. 7 has been written from the gound up and since it is hardware independant (if you ignore the mandatory search button - now I know why RIM did that in OS6) it should have a large number of manufactirers taking up making WinMo7 phones.

    I am therefore sure that Microsidt will take a fair chunk of business from all the current major players in the smartphine market. After all they wrote the dominant (and, imo, the best) OS on the planet - Windows 7 and, they done make the computer hardware.
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    I don't know about Windows 7 being the best on the planet; I'd probably place that in the hands of OS X - the first commercially viable (at least on a consumer level) UNIX based product. I, suppose, the gaming support in Windows is what it enables it to be "on top."

    I had Windows 7 for a half a year on my computer; wiped it, and installed Linux (Slackware), and haven't looked back. I scored a quick buck after a friend bought my copy of Win 7 off of me.
    I will never understand these "help me to decide" threads. Grow a pair, or put on your big girl panties (whichever applies), and make the decision that works best for you. - AmazinglyGraceless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete6 View Post
    WinMo7 wil be a real player, imo.

    It has already been adopted by HTC and tey are a very big player
    WinMo7 is one of the very few platforms that I could move to from BlackBerry.

    I hated WinMo6 and 6.5. It were so clunky and un-together. 7 has been written from the gound up and since it is hardware independant (if you ignore the mandatory search button - now I know why RIM did that in OS6) it should have a large number of manufactirers taking up making WinMo7 phones.

    I am therefore sure that Microsidt will take a fair chunk of business from all the current major players in the smartphine market. After all they wrote the dominant (and, imo, the best) OS on the planet - Windows 7 and, they done make the computer hardware.
    I disagree in sorts.

    I agree, that getting HTC onboard is good but on the other side is Samsung. The primary reason for the bad taste I have had from WinMobile devices were do to crappy cheap hardware from Samsung; This is one reason why I picked the EVO over the Epic was that the Epic being made by Samsung and I'm not the only one with feeling, Epic sales were nothing compared to HTC EVO's. People want to know that when they sign a 2 year contract, the hardware will last 2 years, I rarely see a 2 year Samsung phone.....

    1. Microsoft might have a chance but their reputation as mobile OS vendor is poor, they have put out basic garbage and have expected a cult following because they are "Microsoft".

    2. They have a good chance of hacking away some of Blackberrys base but the true diehard Crackberrys aren't going to the moved much by taking a chance that this new plateform might be better.

    3, They are the last horse out the gate, sure they might catch up but there has been a LOT of new 2 year contracts started with all the other new mobile choices out there that they are not going get anything moving for at least 16 months.

    4. What are they bring to market that hasn't already be introduced? Their primary market share will be with those who already have a WinMobile device and want the newest and a very minor share will be defections for other plateform users that want try a new phone.

    5. Microsoft wrote the best OS ?? Sure it's ok but it's been a case of trial and error not to mention thief and bribes to get there with their OS being the only OS that you could get with a new PC. Their OEM marketing agreements closed down any other option and when Mac's became able to run Windows OS, MS changed the entire OS to shut down that possiblity. Windows 3.1 was a good start, then they added workgroups to add networking and from there it's been nothing but a train wreck with multi version and variations of Win 95, 98, ME, XP, Vista and now we have Win 7.

    Yes a monkey hitting a keys on a keyboard is eventually going to write program that works, it just takes a little time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eBoyDog View Post
    I disagree in sorts.

    I agree, that getting HTC onboard is good but on the other side is Samsung. The primary reason for the bad taste I have had from WinMobile devices were do to crappy cheap hardware from Samsung; This is one reason why I picked the EVO over the Epic was that the Epic being made by Samsung and I'm not the only one with feeling, Epic sales were nothing compared to HTC EVO's. People want to know that when they sign a 2 year contract, the hardware will last 2 years, I rarely see a 2 year Samsung phone.....

    1. Microsoft might have a chance but their reputation as mobile OS vendor is poor, they have put out basic garbage and have expected a cult following because they are "Microsoft".

    2. They have a good chance of hacking away some of Blackberrys base but the true diehard Crackberrys aren't going to the moved much by taking a chance that this new plateform might be better.

    3, They are the last horse out the gate, sure they might catch up but there has been a LOT of new 2 year contracts started with all the other new mobile choices out there that they are not going get anything moving for at least 16 months.

    4. What are they bring to market that hasn't already be introduced? Their primary market share will be with those who already have a WinMobile device and want the newest and a very minor share will be defections for other plateform users that want try a new phone.

    5. Microsoft wrote the best OS ?? Sure it's ok but it's been a case of trial and error not to mention thief and bribes to get there with their OS being the only OS that you could get with a new PC. Their OEM marketing agreements closed down any other option and when Mac's became able to run Windows OS, MS changed the entire OS to shut down that possiblity. Windows 3.1 was a good start, then they added workgroups to add networking and from there it's been nothing but a train wreck with multi version and variations of Win 95, 98, ME, XP, Vista and now we have Win 7.

    Yes a monkey hitting a keys on a keyboard is eventually going to write program that works, it just takes a little time.
    Ugh, Me, and Vista - the banes of Microsoft's existence. XP was about to be that way, too, until Service Pack 2.

    As for Windows 7, I got tired of its constant asking of questions: do you want to do this; are you sure you want to do this; are you really sure, yada yada. At least with Linux, I have some control over what the OS does.
    I will never understand these "help me to decide" threads. Grow a pair, or put on your big girl panties (whichever applies), and make the decision that works best for you. - AmazinglyGraceless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lssanjose View Post
    I don't know about Windows 7 being the best on the planet; I'd probably place that in the hands of OS X - the first commercially viable (at least on a consumer level) UNIX based product. I, suppose, the gaming support in Windows is what it enables it to be "on top."

    I had Windows 7 for a half a year on my computer; wiped it, and installed Linux (Slackware), and haven't looked back. I scored a quick buck after a friend bought my copy of Win 7 off of me.
    Wel, I think we must agree to disagree. My opinion of OSX is unprinatble. At best I regard it as a poorly written shell over UNIX. UNIX is solid and that is why OSX stays awake.

    Apple have never been able to write OSs. However they are great at making them look pretty and flashy.

    If you want to simply get the job done, Windows 7 just can't be beat. As it's sales figures demonstrate.
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    Pete, don't get me wrong. My opinion of Apple, as a whole, is unprintable. However, I do respect them, because they're effective. They're effective in marketing their product lines because, as you well stated, they are great at making them look pretty. Such is very appealing to the general public, who aren't as savvy as you; others around here; and I are. I think that's why I tried putting that consumer point in there, representing the average consumer. I've seen mac usage up over a good number of years.

    I do like your quick one about UNIX being the reason why OSX stays up; pretty funny.

    I'll agree, if want something to work right away, Windows 7 is the way to go. I just enjoy making them work on my own; but, that's just me.
    I will never understand these "help me to decide" threads. Grow a pair, or put on your big girl panties (whichever applies), and make the decision that works best for you. - AmazinglyGraceless.
  14. Pete6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eBoyDog View Post
    I disagree in sorts.
    OK, that's good.

    Quote Originally Posted by eBoyDog View Post
    I agree, that getting HTC onboard is good but on the other side is Samsung. The primary reason for the bad taste I have had from WinMobile devices were do to crappy cheap hardware from Samsung; This is one reason why I picked the EVO over the Epic was that the Epic being made by Samsung and I'm not the only one with feeling, Epic sales were nothing compared to HTC EVO's. People want to know that when they sign a 2 year contract, the hardware will last 2 years, I rarely see a 2 year Samsung phone.....
    I quoted HTC because I know their products. The thing here is that MS are just providing the software and a fairly tight specification. If a manufacturer makes a cheap (bad quality??) phone then it may well last a shorter time than a better made one. Carriers don't care about phones. They care abiout selling minutes, services and bandwidth. In th econsumer market, carriers want a phone to last the length of a contract and then to give a decent price on an upgrade.

    Quote Originally Posted by eBoyDog View Post
    1. Microsoft might have a chance but their reputation as mobile OS vendor is poor, they have put out basic garbage and have expected a cult following because they are "Microsoft".
    Microsoft produced a load of cr^p in WinMo up till ev6.5. There is no argument over this. WinMo7 os totally new and looks to be very good indeed. I wish them well.

    Quote Originally Posted by eBoyDog View Post
    2. They have a good chance of hacking away some of Blackberrys base but the true diehard Crackberrys aren't going to the moved much by taking a chance that this new plateform might be better.
    I am an ex Modrator on Crackberry and I hold BlackBerrys in very hig regards. They almost never fail. I cannot remember when my 9700 has EVER failed to do what it should. It is also true that there are far less fart apps for the BlackBery than for the iPhone. Personally I regards that as a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by eBoyDog View Post
    3, They are the last horse out the gate, sure they might catch up but there has been a LOT of new 2 year contracts started with all the other new mobile choices out there that they are not going get anything moving for at least 16 months.
    So what Apple a couple of years backl and look what happened there.

    Quote Originally Posted by eBoyDog View Post
    4. What are they bring to market that hasn't already be introduced? Their primary market share will be with those who already have a WinMobile device and want the newest and a very minor share will be defections for other plateform users that want try a new phone.
    You are right. WinMo7 brings nothig to the market that has not already been done. Why is this? The market for SmartPhones is already mature. Most things that can be done within a small battery powered phone box has been done. So now we have choice, more choice and, I like that. It does not make you wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by eBoyDog View Post
    5. Microsoft wrote the best OS ?? Sure it's ok but it's been a case of trial and error not to mention thief and bribes to get there with their OS being the only OS that you could get with a new PC. Their OEM marketing agreements closed down any other option and when Mac's became able to run Windows OS, MS changed the entire OS to shut down that possiblity. Windows 3.1 was a good start, then they added workgroups to add networking and from there it's been nothing but a train wreck with multi version and variations of Win 95, 98, ME, XP, Vista and now we have Win 7.
    Actually I hate It worked well for Word, and Internet back in the day.d Windows 3.1 and Windows 3.11. Windows 98Se was great as long as you did not ask anything much from it. Enabling Macs to run Windows was a major step forward for Apple. At last Mac users could use a UO and an OS that actually worked and was eay to use. But that's just what I think after running the desktops of 15000 users for 3 years.


    Quote Originally Posted by eBoyDog View Post
    Yes a monkey hitting a keys on a keyboard is eventually going to write program that works, it just takes a little time.
    But that's not what happened. The most dominant OS writer on the planet admitted its mistake and set out from zero to write something that worked. They drew on all their resources to designe an extremely simple UI and it looks like they got it pretty much right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete6 View Post
    But that's not what happened. The most dominant OS writer on the planet admitted its mistake and set out from zero to write something that worked. They drew on all their resources to designe an extremely simple UI and it looks like they got it pretty much right.
    Uhhh.... they already had the UI written, it came from their Zune MP3 player, they are just taking the iPod like Apple did and turned it into a phone. That trick only works the first time and Apple beat them to the market.

    As apologys go, Microsoft never wrote anyone an apology for Window ME or Vista, or any of the Winmobile OS's. I wasted MY money on ME & Vista so that I would have the new and better PC OS since after ME I thought, sure they won't mess up again.....

    Microsoft is their own worse enemy as for this to be succesful, they have to convince people "HEY, we got it right this time.... No Really, we did, we won't mess up again, WE PROMISE!!"

    (Kinda like the wife beating husband shouting at his wife as she drives away for the last time)
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    I think Win Phone 7 will be unsuccessful as long as MS takes their good old time adding features that users can get on any other smartphone and have been able to get for a long time.

    No copy and paste?
    No multitasking?

    Both of those features are pretty much expected by users of smartphones. If MS keeps dragging their feet, customers will not want their devices.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    I think Win Phone 7 will be unsuccessful as long as MS takes their good old time adding features that users can get on any other smartphone and have been able to get for a long time.

    No copy and paste?
    No multitasking?
    It didn't seem to hurt Apple much as they slowly added those features. The difference is that Apple's PR makes people think they've gotta have whatever it is they're pitching and we've all seen how bad MS does at marketing. Maybe Bill and Jerry Seinfeld will team up again...

    IMO, it's shaping up to be a Kin3
    They talk about me like a dog, talkin' about the clothes I wear
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheScionicMan View Post
    It didn't seem to hurt Apple much as they slowly added those features. The difference is that Apple's PR makes people think they've gotta have whatever it is they're pitching and we've all seen how bad MS does at marketing. Maybe Bill and Jerry Seinfeld will team up again...

    IMO, it's shaping up to be a Kin3
    Problem is, Apple did finally add those features, so MS has the only smartphone platform that lacks them nowadays. You'd think they would have learned after Apple got blasted for not offering the features.

    You're right about MS's less than stellar marketing. They really don't market even their successful products well. Remember the stupid Windows 7 launch party ads? Windows 7 seems to be a success in spite of MS's marketing, not because of it.
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    I can't believe that MS would omit such basic things, also that it doesn't have a lot of customization instead of all most none.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    I think Win Phone 7 will be unsuccessful as long as MS takes their good old time adding features that users can get on any other smartphone and have been able to get for a long time.

    No copy and paste?
    No multitasking?

    Both of those features are pretty much expected by users of smartphones. If MS keeps dragging their feet, customers will not want their devices.
    I think both of these topics bring up some interesting differences between the competing formats.

    If you take multitasking for example there is a differeing view of what is needed/wanted on a mobile handset. The iOS way is not considered true multitasking, BB and WebOS have true open application switching, Android on to the point of forced closure and WM7 has background operation and paused open app holding. It really comes down to how hard or easy it is to get between these apps and what you want them to do while you are doing something else. There are ups and downs to all these choices but to suggest one is wrong misses what else comes with the platform, the way you navigate and interact with it. You could say, Blackberry with all it's buttons and shortcuts presents easiest navigation over WebOS that offers a vast amount of running apps with a different access method for example.

    Copy and paste is more of a no brainer, but MS did some interesting things to not need it in alot of instances I'm used to. If I highlight text and hit search, bang it's binged (ugh excuse that crappy expresssion). Clicking an address in my contacts or email it takes me directly to the location on maps, touching a phone number alows me to add or call it. They really need some direct copy and paste but come January it's in with alot of things people are noticing of need.

    Come the iPhone upgrade cycle in summer this should be a real choice to the Apple users and anyone else who's willing to give it a chance. Not that I ever expect WM7 to be a real big player, I can see the non appeal to the open Android crowd, the locked in Apple people and by then WebOS and Blackberry will be in a much different place. I see another big player only adding to the upward spiral of the smartphone market even if it's only got 5% of the market, after all everyone else still wants that 5% and will fight for it.

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