[cbvinh]

I am not entirely convinced Microsoft is out of smartphones quite yet. To me, Microsoft is positioning for another hard reset of their mobile ambitions, which, I consider the right choice.

You mean like BlackBerry going Android?

Nokia hardware was simply a poor fit for Microsoft and it was a major mistake buying the division. Despite its fan following, there were systematic problems with the division as well as what I consider a lack of talent and overall poor engineering. There are reasons why Nokia failed and Symbian + Windows Phone are only part of the equation.

Um, Nokia produced some of the most solid mobile devices and their MeeGo OS in the N9 showed talent and engineering expertise . Their downfall was betting everything on Microsoft being ready with Windows Phone. Windows Phone wasn't ready for prime time and that was reflected in Microsoft's "hard reset", i.e. 7.x dropped for 8.x...

Microsoft's own Surface hardware division is much more promising than Nokia hardware and rather than integrating a part of another company it came from within Microsoft. It makes sense to start off with a clean slate using the Surface division and hope that it may reproduce its cult tablet success in smartphones.

If their tablets are "cult", it means they're not mainstream and that spells eventual disaster, i.e. Windows RT.

The fate of Windows Phone hinges completely on the leadership. Microsoft could have very well supported Windows Phone indefinitely; but, Nadella didn't believe in it.

The fate of Nokia hinged on its leadership, which when Elop was handed the reigns, he trusted that his old pals at Microsoft could deliver a new, mature OS in a timely fashion, which they weren't able to. Maybe now Microsoft has passed that maturity level with Windows Phone, but the market has already passed them by, much like BB10 is considered pretty mature now, to the point where people here wonder why BlackBerry won't make another BB10 phone. "It's such a good, solid OS!" (People forgot the early days of BB10.)

Yes, Microsoft could support Windows Phone indefinitely, but if it's losing money, what CEO would continue pumping money into it? It's not about the CEO "believing", it's sales. Elop believed in Windows Phone and where did it get Nokia?

[bakron1]

I have been around the tech industry since the early 80's and I have noticed that the past couple of years that Android and IOS have embedded themselves into mainstream culture, at least here in the USA.

I remember when Blackberry was the device to own and you where considered a professional when folks seen you with one. But that was before the major competition in the way of Android and IOS.

Android being open source exploded onto the scene and I remember rooting my device and flashing every custom ROM I could get my hands on. Then came the iPhone and that changed how the market would be from that point forward.

Apps became the way folks performed their daily task and soon both the Android and Apple apps stores where bragging how many apps each one had. It doesn't matter whether a lot of the apps where crap and fluff, the standard on how the smartphone would be marketed was already established by then.

Windows OS was a unique one and I have had a couple of Nokia devices like a 1020 and a 1520 and I can honestly say I like the build quality of both devices and they both had great cameras.

Windows suffered the same fate as Blackberry when it came to apps, although they did have Facebook, Twitter and other social apps that did work better the OS10 variants.

Bill gates poured a lot of cash into windows mobile and it goes to show that no matter how much money and resources you have, if the consumer doesn't take to it, your toast.

I think the only reason Blackberry has hung in there this long is because they still have a decent enterprise client user base, but even that is shrinking because more and more companies are going the IOS and Android route.

The good thing is that Blackberry was smart enough to buy some key software security companies and have developed software to work across different platforms or they would be toast by now.

With the smartphone industry being saturated, the next few quarters should be interesting and for me I here for the long haul, it should be an interesting ride.

[app_Developer]

I have been around the tech industry since the early 80's and I have noticed that the past couple of years that Android and IOS have embedded themselves into mainstream culture, at least here in the USA.

I remember when Blackberry was the device to own and you where considered a professional when folks seen you with one. But that was before the major competition in the way of Android and IOS.

Android being open source exploded onto the scene and I remember rooting my device and flashing every custom ROM I could get my hands on. Then came the iPhone and that changed how the market would be from that point forward.

Apps became the way folks performed their daily task and soon both the Android and Apple apps stores where bragging how many apps each one had. It doesn't matter whether a lot of the apps where crap and fluff, the standard on how the smartphone would be marketed was already established by then.

Windows OS was a unique one and I have had a couple of Nokia devices like a 1020 and a 1520 and I can honestly say I like the build quality of both devices and they both had great cameras.

Windows suffered the same fate as Blackberry when it came to apps, although they did have Facebook, Twitter and other social apps that did work better the OS10 variants.

Bill gates poured a lot of cash into windows mobile and it goes to show that no matter how much money and resources you have, if the consumer doesn't take to it, your toast.

I think the only reason Blackberry has hung in there this long is because they still have a decent enterprise client user base, but even that is shrinking because more and more companies are going the IOS and Android route.

The good thing is that Blackberry was smart enough to buy some key software security companies and have developed software to work across different platforms or they would be toast by now.

With the smartphone industry being saturated, the next few quarters should be interesting and for me I here for the long haul, it should be an interesting ride.

This should be a sticky. Everything you wanted to know about what happened to BB and where they go from here.

[sentimentGX4]

Um, Nokia produced some of the most solid mobile devices and their MeeGo OS in the N9 showed talent and engineering expertise .

Maemo/Nokia fans share lots of illusions of grandeur overlap with BB10 fans. Maemo was an absolute engineer disaster. Think relative to the Z10 in term of being underspec'ed when it was launch.

Even worse than Blackberry, Meego had no device pipeline! Nokia gave the Maemo/Meego team years to develop handset and they could barely develop one phone the (N9) that came horribly late. No way could the Meego team engineer an entire portfolio of devices suitable for a multibillion dollar handset business. Meego's inability to build a portfolio is why Nokia stuck with Symbian for so long.

The only thing Meego had going for it was the joyful, polycarbonate industrial design; though, in reality, this was also horribly dated. Apple and Samsung had brought on a thin smartphone frenzy at the time and once again Nokia could simply not engineer such a device that consumers wanted. Their Windows Phones carried on the design but continued to be absolute bricks with tiny displays.



The general consumer would have likely never embraced a Nokia Android device, which would probably be akin to the PRIV in terms of its shortcomings. Nokia had the brand; but, the engineers at Samsung, LG, and even Apple simply knew what they were doing much better.

[johnnyuk]

The fate of Windows Phone hinges completely on the leadership. Microsoft could have very well supported Windows Phone indefinitely; but, Nadella didn't believe in it.

The fate of Windows Phone hinges completely on its app ecosystem like any phone OS today. No amount of leadership is going to convince app developers to commit their time and money in to a phone platform that hasn't sold enough units yet.

Nadella doesn't believe in burning through $10 billion dollars in 5 years on Windows Phone without a cent of profit in return and allowing that to continue. I can see his point of view.

Posted from the CB10 app on my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2/10.3.2.2789 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.6.28

[BB-JAM215]

The Windows Phone OS and Windows RT may be dead but Windows 10 is alive and well and not only runs on PCs, but also on Microsoft (and maybe a couple of other brands) tablets and mobile phones. That's something Apple is working towards, but still has a way to go to get there.

Rumors persist that Microsoft will release a Windows 10 "Surface Phone" based on their Surface tablet hardware that runs the desktop version of Windows 10 which also supports "universal" (mobile) Windows apps.

Like BlackBerry, Microsoft is not trying to compete in the consumer phone market. They are betting that business customers will buy a mobile device that runs a full version of Microsoft Office.

[cbvinh]

Maemo/Nokia fans share lots of illusions of grandeur overlap with BB10 fans. Maemo was an absolute engineer disaster. Think relative to the Z10 in term of being underspec'ed when it was launch.

Even worse than Blackberry, Meego had no device pipeline! Nokia gave the Maemo/Meego team years to develop handset and they could barely develop one phone the (N9) that came horribly late. No way could the Meego team engineer an entire portfolio of devices suitable for a multibillion dollar handset business. Meego's inability to build a portfolio is why Nokia stuck with Symbian for so long.

The only thing Meego had going for it was the joyful, polycarbonate industrial design; though, in reality, this was also horribly dated. Apple and Samsung had brought on a thin smartphone frenzy at the time and once again Nokia could simply not engineer such a device that consumers wanted. Their Windows Phones carried on the design but continued to be absolute bricks with tiny displays.

The N9 received rave reviews, for both software and hardware, when it was released, to the point where the CEO had to make a public statement to say he was killing the project, lest lose face for choosing Windows Phone just shortly before the N9's release.

Nokia had the best cameras at the time, though restricted to Symbian, but then later adapted to Windows Phone after the N9 became the base model for subsequent Windows Phones. What camera on Android, iOS, or whatever was better than PureView when it was released? Nokia knew what they were doing hardware-wise.

As for MeeGo, it's influenced BB10 and has since, Android and iOS:




Let's see...

- double tap to wake
- no buttons, gesture-based GUI
- Active Frames
- Hub
- NFC file transfer

[ubizmo]

They are betting that business customers will buy a mobile device that runs a full version of Microsoft Office.

I think they're also betting on a coattail effect from apps originally designed with Surface tablets in mind. Instead of making phones that are almost tablets, they plan to make tablets phones. This is why they're not really doing much with phones this year.

Just as the iPhone was an iPod that became a phone, they're betting on the tablet that becomes a phone. If they play it right, that'll be enough to get them developers.

[CtrlAlt_Del]

very impressive...Wonder why it failed the reviewer's benchmarks?

[Fool Guy]

Not until MS looses faith in WP10.
They are cash rich and have capacity to keep WP10 afloat even next couple of years. And if MS opens it a bit surely they can achieve decent market share.
On the other side BB10 gave up BB10 without hard try. BB10 still have future but BB have zero faith in it.
But that's common in tech world, We have seen many such demises in past too Meamo/MeeGo/Symbian/Palm OS are few examples.

[ubizmo]

MSFT is a publicly traded company. If W10M is losing money, the stockholders won't tolerate it forever. But yes, a few years to test the UWP strategy should be possible.

Sent from mTalk

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Not until MS looses faith in WP10.
They are cash rich and have capacity to keep WP10 afloat even next couple of years. And if MS opens it a bit surely they can achieve decent market share.
On the other side BB10 gave up BB10 without hard try. BB10 still have future but BB have zero faith in it.
But that's common in tech world, We have seen many such demises in past too Meamo/MeeGo/Symbian/Palm OS are few examples.

BlackBerry wasn't cash rich enough.....They were burning Billions a quarter.

Would be interesting to know what all Chen cut in those first few months to save Billions, and how much of that was BB10 development, sales, marketing and other related projects. That basically ended BB10 long before they announced anything.

[kvndoom]

Same thing happened on the desktop in the early days. Ultimately the OSes that ran Microsoft Office are the only ones who could compete. The others died off.

Office and video games. Video games make more money than professional sports and Hollywood. For the past 2 decades, if you wanted to game on your PC, you used Windows. That was also a big part of MS's iron grip in the PC industry. Everything "just worked" on Windows. Ironic that lack of popular software was their downfall in mobile.

[xtremeled]

Windows Phone is dead, Microsoft should just use Android

Not sure how to feel about this. I've never played around with a Windows phone, so I can't speak to the quality of them, but i'm sure not looking forward to this becoming a smartphone world where my only options are iOS or Andriod. BlackBerry has made it pretty clear that they're going Android, so my only hope is that they see it viable enough to produce at least one BB10 phone a year.

And yet Win 10 still has .5% more market than BB. So, no matter how bad you think Windows phones are, they're still doing better than BB and that is sad.

[kvndoom]

The Windows Phone OS and Windows RT may be dead but Windows 10 is alive and well and not only runs on PCs, but also on Microsoft (and maybe a couple of other brands) tablets and mobile phones. That's something Apple is working towards, but still has a way to go to get there.

Rumors persist that Microsoft will release a Windows 10 "Surface Phone" based on their Surface tablet hardware that runs the desktop version of Windows 10 which also supports "universal" (mobile) Windows apps.

Like BlackBerry, Microsoft is not trying to compete in the consumer phone market. They are betting that business customers will buy a mobile device that runs a full version of Microsoft Office.

And if they don't? Then MS will have to release a full version of Office for IOS and Android. Money is money.

[Jerry A]

And if they don't? Then MS will have to release a full version of Office for IOS and Android. Money is money.

They've already released full versions for Android and iOS. Free unless you need the advanced features or are working on a screen larger than 10". Then all you need is to purchase your O365 subscription. Which works on your smartphone, tablet and computer.

Which is pretty genius. By putting first-class apps on Android and iOS, Microsoft is supporting their primary vision - Cloud services.

[Rustybronco]

And yet Win 10 still has .5% more market than BB. So, no matter how bad you think Windows phones are, they're still doing better than BB and that is sad.

The amount of market share that Windows phone own's has nothing to do with how polished the OS is. Compared to BB OS 10.3.2, Windows 8.1 sukz. Windows 10 is an improvement over 8.1, but in my opinion it's not nearly as easy to use as BB OS10.3.2

[Bonnie Bonzai]

The amount of market share that Windows phone own's has nothing to do with how polished the OS is. Compared to BB OS 10.3.2, Windows 8.1 sukz. Windows 10 is an improvement over 8.1, but in my opinion it's not nearly as easy to use as BB OS10.3.2

I absolutely agree with you! I bought a Lumia 950 Windows 10 a month or so ago and I'm surprised at how slow it is compared to BB10. It does however, fit in my pocket better (sigh)

Posted via CB10

[kvndoom]

They've already released full versions for Android and iOS. Free unless you need the advanced features or are working on a screen larger than 10". Then all you need is to purchase your O365 subscription. Which works on your smartphone, tablet and computer.

Which is pretty genius. By putting first-class apps on Android and iOS, Microsoft is supporting their primary vision - Cloud services.

Ah! Well then they've already given away their one possible competitive advantage for mobile. No wonder it couldn't gain any traction.

[Jerry A]

Ah! Well then they've already given away their one possible competitive advantage for mobile. No wonder it couldn't gain any traction.

It was exclusive to Windows Phone for years and didn't help sales. Not enough of a differentiator nor enough value to make people jump from their platforms of choice.

The ability to

By opening Office up (properly, not the half-baked implementation under Ballmer) Nadella has created a larger revenue stream for Microsoft.

Better to have a successful company than a floundering smartphone division.

[anon(8719892)]

Being that BB10 was never a viable product

LOL

[Bluenoser63]

Being that BB10 was never a viable product, I seriously doubt we will see another BB10 device released.

It's Android or it's nothing for BlackBerry..... well they could use Windows.

Actually it was a viable product but the launch was mishandled badly. To say that BB10 was never viable tells me something.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Actually it was a viable product but the launch was mishandled badly. To say that BB10 was never viable tells me something.

Back then it did seem viable. And it is probable the best OS on the market for a mobile device. But people buy platforms not OS.

Looking back, as things were (can't change the past).... from the PlayBook's release to the Z10, Q10, Q5 on onward. When was there a moment when BlackBerry really had a chance?

If we could time travel and advise Mike and Jim (and they would listen), yes BB10 could have become a viable product. But as is, it never really had a chance. After the launch failures BlackBerry was just going through the motions to sell devcies based off their existing userbase and fans... but that was a short term plan as each year fewer existing users or even fans were willing to settle for what BlackBerry was offering.

This post about the troubles that Microsoft has faced and the money they have sunk into Window 10/Mobile.... just shows that waiting till 2013 to compete with the two dominant OS was just too late.

[kvndoom]

It was exclusive to Windows Phone for years and didn't help sales. Not enough of a differentiator nor enough value to make people jump from their platforms of choice.

The ability to

By opening Office up (properly, not the half-baked implementation under Ballmer) Nadella has created a larger revenue stream for Microsoft.

Better to have a successful company than a floundering smartphone division.

Heh exactly why I said "money is money."

Passport SE, "The BlockBerry" - Cricket Wireless

[irweezyy]

Good point - never thought of that. So sad that whichever OS runs Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and Snapchat the best, reigns supreme.

Posted via CB10

It's a sad world we now live in.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android