Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 34
  1. big.daddy's Avatar
    CrackBerry Addict

    Posts
    560 Posts
    PIN
    BBM me for it
    Thread AuthorThread Author   #1  

    Default What is the difference between text messages and data?

    I mean, network wise. Is there a difference?
  2. blue_and_bold's Avatar
    CrackBerry Genius

    Posts
    2,640 Posts
    PIN
    ned to the floor
    #2  

    Default

    You mean like network wise between VZW/Sprint/AT&T?
    Don't ask, and we won't tell.
    This is my opinion and in no way reflects the opinion of Verizon Wireless or its affiliates. Do not consider talking to me a substitute to actually talking to a Verizon representitive, because I often lie. I find it very sad and pathetic that anyone would actually read this far... And to anyone who reads this and thinks its dumb a big middle finger to you.
  3. big.daddy's Avatar
    CrackBerry Addict

    Posts
    560 Posts
    PIN
    BBM me for it
    Thread AuthorThread Author   #3  

    Default

    No, i mean are text messages and data all going through the same line, so to speak. if so, why is there an extra charge for text messaging for blackberry users if you have to get the data plan anyway. I guess what im asking is, do text messages go through a separate part of the network that warrant a different charge?
  4. blue_and_bold's Avatar
    CrackBerry Genius

    Posts
    2,640 Posts
    PIN
    ned to the floor
    #4  

    Default

    No, Your txt messages are on the same "line" as your voice. They aren't data. However your bbm's are. So yes they do warrant another charge just like any other phone.
    Don't ask, and we won't tell.
    This is my opinion and in no way reflects the opinion of Verizon Wireless or its affiliates. Do not consider talking to me a substitute to actually talking to a Verizon representitive, because I often lie. I find it very sad and pathetic that anyone would actually read this far... And to anyone who reads this and thinks its dumb a big middle finger to you.
  5. big.daddy's Avatar
    CrackBerry Addict

    Posts
    560 Posts
    PIN
    BBM me for it
    Thread AuthorThread Author   #5  

    Default

    I was trying to understand how they justify the cost of a TM plan, i know my alltel plan has unlimited TM included in the plan which was the main reason for asking. Thanks.
  6. tsguy52's Avatar
    CrackBerry Master

    Posts
    1,056 Posts
    #6  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by big.daddy View Post
    I was trying to understand how they justify the cost of a TM plan, i know my alltel plan has unlimited TM included in the plan which was the main reason for asking. Thanks.
    Short Message Service (SMS) is it's own system and is routed through the network differently than data.

    SMS is routed through the network and main component is the SMSC (short message service center). At that point it gets routed to whoever you're sending the message to or handed off to the other carrier.

    Data goes through PDSN's and AAA for authentication. As well as other components that provide the customer data.

    Verizon Wireless offers unlimited text messaging in Select Plans. Or you could just go with "BlackBerry Nationwide Email & Messaging" - which would bundle everything together like the Smart Choice Packs (only more expensive).

    The cost is really based on the fact that so many people would rather text than talk these days. Which means they will have to structure pricing differently to still make money.
    Last edited by tsguy52; 09-04-2009 at 12:52 PM.
  7. blue_and_bold's Avatar
    CrackBerry Genius

    Posts
    2,640 Posts
    PIN
    ned to the floor
    #7  

    Default

    Yeah thats what I said
    Don't ask, and we won't tell.
    This is my opinion and in no way reflects the opinion of Verizon Wireless or its affiliates. Do not consider talking to me a substitute to actually talking to a Verizon representitive, because I often lie. I find it very sad and pathetic that anyone would actually read this far... And to anyone who reads this and thinks its dumb a big middle finger to you.
  8. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    CrackBerry Genius of Geniuses

    Posts
    5,103 Posts
    PIN
    wheel
    #8  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tsguy52 View Post
    The cost is really based on the fact that so many people would rather text than talk these days. Which means they will have to structure pricing differently to still make money.
    This is something folks don't consider much - even here.

    There are articles about the miniscule cost of sending text messages. I personally believe it is zero, as carrier signals are still active - same bandwidth load whether or not a real message is being carried. But while the cost of carrying the text messages are free or slight, the network costs have risen, while texting has reduced the need for larger plans. Couple that with the fact voice plan rates haven't increased in years, while inflation has reduced the value of the dollar.

    So, texting plans & charges subsidize the voice side, to an extent. Not everyone texts, so it wouldn't be fair (or a good business decision) to increase voice plan charges to give everyone free texting. Instead, texting plans vary in amount, based on texting need of the individual. Text more, pay more.

    And while you're paying more, you're helping to subsidize the upcoming LTE rollout, which should ultimately result in lower costs & possibly lower bills.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
  9. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    CrackBerry Geek

    Posts
    11,458 Posts
    Global Posts
    26,543 Global Posts
    #9  

    Default

    Verizon has a data only plan with no voice. Verizon brings Data only plans for BlackBerry BlackBerry Sync – BlackBerry News You Can Sync With…

    I'm sure AT&T and Sprint have some similar kind of plans.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
  10. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    CrackBerry Genius of Geniuses

    Posts
    5,103 Posts
    PIN
    wheel
    #10  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    Verizon has a data only plan with no voice.
    If I am not mistaken, that doesn't have SMS. MMS, IMs & data, but no voice or text.
  11. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    CrackBerry Geek

    Posts
    11,458 Posts
    Global Posts
    26,543 Global Posts
    #11  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TwinsX2Dad View Post
    If I am not mistaken, that doesn't have SMS. MMS, IMs & data, but no voice or text.
    It has everything but voice.

    Enter your location
  12. jahoobob's Avatar
    CrackBerry Abuser

    Posts
    400 Posts
    Global Posts
    451 Global Posts
    #12  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by big.daddy View Post
    I was trying to understand how they justify the cost of a TM plan, i know my alltel plan has unlimited TM included in the plan which was the main reason for asking. Thanks.
    Why do they have to justify a service? How can a cable company justify charging for cable, internet and phone over the same line? They can and they do.
    Target for termination
  13. vatothe0's Avatar
    CrackBerry Master

    Posts
    1,061 Posts
    #13  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TwinsX2Dad View Post
    This is something folks don't consider much - even here.

    There are articles about the miniscule cost of sending text messages. I personally believe it is zero, as carrier signals are still active - same bandwidth load whether or not a real message is being carried. But while the cost of carrying the text messages are free or slight, the network costs have risen, while texting has reduced the need for larger plans. Couple that with the fact voice plan rates haven't increased in years, while inflation has reduced the value of the dollar.

    So, texting plans & charges subsidize the voice side, to an extent. Not everyone texts, so it wouldn't be fair (or a good business decision) to increase voice plan charges to give everyone free texting. Instead, texting plans vary in amount, based on texting need of the individual. Text more, pay more.

    And while you're paying more, you're helping to subsidize the upcoming LTE rollout, which should ultimately result in lower costs & possibly lower bills.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    So handling in excess of 30,000,000,000 messages per month has a minimal cost? Must run on magic.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
  14. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    CrackBerry Geek

    Posts
    11,458 Posts
    Global Posts
    26,543 Global Posts
    #14  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vatothe0 View Post
    So handling in excess of 30,000,000,000 messages per month has a minimal cost? Must run on magic.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    It is cheaper than the costs to handle the phone calls.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
  15. vatothe0's Avatar
    CrackBerry Master

    Posts
    1,061 Posts
    #15  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    It is cheaper than the costs to handle the phone calls.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    So are the plan. What is your point?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
  16. tsguy52's Avatar
    CrackBerry Master

    Posts
    1,056 Posts
    #16  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vatothe0 View Post
    So handling in excess of 30,000,000,000 messages per month has a minimal cost? Must run on magic.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    It is a minimal cost to keep that specific aspect of the network up. Channels designed just for SMS that are always open within the network, which makes the cost a flat rate for the carrier. Does not involve many different systems as voice or data would. Bandwidth is never really an issue. 1 SMS = 140 bytes max
  17. tsguy52's Avatar
    CrackBerry Master

    Posts
    1,056 Posts
    #17  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vatothe0 View Post
    So are the plan. What is your point?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    The point is that SMS costs are heavily inflated and are so that they make up for the lack voice calls now made. Sure the plans are cheaper, but when you put it in perspective SMS has a very very good profit margin.
  18. vatothe0's Avatar
    CrackBerry Master

    Posts
    1,061 Posts
    #18  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tsguy52 View Post
    The point is that SMS costs are heavily inflated and are so that they make up for the lack voice calls now made. Sure the plans are cheaper, but when you put it in perspective SMS has a very very good profit margin.
    A business that sells some items with low margin and some with high margin? How terrible of them.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
  19. tsguy52's Avatar
    CrackBerry Master

    Posts
    1,056 Posts
    #19  

    Default

    Here is how inflated SMS costs are:

    Cost per SMS: $.20
    Cost per MB used in a data session browsing the web: $1.99

    1MB worth of SMS = 7,490 SMS messages
    7,490 SMS messages @ $.20 each = $1,498

    So you're looking at $1,498/MB vs $1.99/MB normal data.
  20. vatothe0's Avatar
    CrackBerry Master

    Posts
    1,061 Posts
    #20  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tsguy52 View Post
    It is a minimal cost to keep that specific aspect of the network up. Channels designed just for SMS that are always open within the network, which makes the cost a flat rate for the carrier. Does not involve many different systems as voice or data would. Bandwidth is never really an issue. 1 SMS = 140 bytes max
    So 30,000,000,000 messages multiplied by 140 bytes is a a lot of data. Add in support to bill it, and store the messages for legal requests and its quite a bit.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
  21. vatothe0's Avatar
    CrackBerry Master

    Posts
    1,061 Posts
    #21  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tsguy52 View Post
    Here is how inflated SMS costs are:

    Cost per SMS: $.20
    Cost per MB used in a data session browsing the web: $1.99

    1MB worth of SMS = 7,490 SMS messages
    7,490 SMS messages @ $.20 each = $1,498

    So you're looking at $1,498/MB vs $1.99/MB normal data.
    Send your messages as email then.

    Since you have no idea what the true cost for sms is, this is pretty pointless.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
  22. tsguy52's Avatar
    CrackBerry Master

    Posts
    1,056 Posts
    #22  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vatothe0 View Post
    So 30,000,000,000 messages multiplied by 140 bytes is a a lot of data. Add in support to bill it, and store the messages for legal requests and its quite a bit.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Billing isn't a big issue. It passes through their SMSC, then it gets billed. It doesn't even matter if you're roaming, which makes it less complex when it comes to billing.

    Storing 30 billion messages on a server would be a very small size. Not to mention VZW would delete the messages after a certain amount of time anyway.

    For 30 Billion messages it would require roughly 3,912GB of storage space. That could fit on a few hard drives. Big deal.
  23. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    CrackBerry Genius of Geniuses

    Posts
    5,103 Posts
    PIN
    wheel
    #23  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vatothe0 View Post
    So handling in excess of 30,000,000,000 messages per month has a minimal cost? Must run on magic.
    Of course it is minimal - or even zero.

    SMS runs on a subchannel within the voice carrier. Whether or not this subchannel is carrying any user messages, it is constantly transmitting two-way data. The data is carrier ID information, but the vast majority of it is redundant sampling.

    If there is no subscriber message input, an extremely tiny amount of the information is actually used - somewhere around .000001% is all that is actually processed & the rest goes unused - data bouncing off walls & into the ether. Text messaging traffic accounts for less than .000025 of the total transmission bandwidth. The data flows between your phone & the network, whether you send anything or not - even when you have a texting block.

    So it is there whether you use it or not - a byproduct of the radio spectrum - carriers don't need to provision anything extra to make it work - they only need to do extra to stop independent transmissions to your account or line.

    Think of it this way - i used to have a home with flood irrigation. The canal that served me was less than 200ft from my property line. I owned & maintained the gate apparatus, as well as the piping that suppied the water. The irrigation authority did nothing to the water other than divert it away from the river. At the end of the canal, the water fed into a water plant. If I used water, I had to pay $50 per year to the authority. If I didn't use any water, they locked my gate & I was not granted access to the water. I understand the fee for the water was for maintenance of the channels before my gate - but why did I have to pay for a fishing license to drop a hook into the water? The fish that made it to the plant died. The fish that made it through the gate & grating into my yard could be caught

    That canal represents voice service - the subchannels & undertows are there no matter what. I paid for the water, like one would pay for the voice service. The fish were there no matter what. Was the irrigation authority paying for those fish? No - the fish were free. My license fees went to subsidize something else in the state. It would cost them to keep the canal fish-free.

    So. it doesn't matter if it is 3 messages, 30 billion or 700 billion - there is no cost to provide the service - it is there no matter what.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
  24. tsguy52's Avatar
    CrackBerry Master

    Posts
    1,056 Posts
    #24  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vatothe0 View Post
    Send your messages as email then.

    Since you have no idea what the true cost for sms is, this is pretty pointless.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    You're bringing up an argument that has no merit. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to charge for SMS. I think it's a brilliant business move. It costs basically nothing and reels in an amazing profit margin.

    Why are you trying to prove that SMS actually takes very much to upkeep?
  25. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    CrackBerry Genius of Geniuses

    Posts
    5,103 Posts
    PIN
    wheel
    #25  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tsguy52 View Post
    Why are you trying to prove that SMS actually takes very much to upkeep?
    He can't - the argument he is posing has no merit. He is just arguing to read his own words.

    As I've said many times before - what the costs are is meaningless - what means something is how much people are willing to pay. If they can charge it & you don't like it, then don't use it. There are many others willing to pay for the service, whether the carrier makes 1% profit or 1000% profit. Anyone who argues that it isn't market-driven is either dumb to economics or has a socialist/fascist view of the world.

    But anyone who tries to make an argument that SMS costs anything - and I would even forgive a high estimate of five cents per line per year - doesn't know telecom or how it works.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions