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    Default FCC Investigating Verizon

    Check this out, FCC questions Verizon Wireless about its new $350 early termination fee « Boy Genius Report It would seem that the FCC finds it weird too that after 23 months and a $350 ETF on all new smartphone devices, you would still owe $120 to Verizon. They also find that $1.99 fee if you accidentally access the mobile web kinda strange. About time someone questions them on some of this craziness!
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    The $1.99 fee doesn't get charged unless you go past the first page so there is nothing strange about it and if you disconnect with one month left on your contract you deserve the $120 fee.

    If you don't like the fee, vote with your wallet and go to another company that doesn't do it.

    Edit: You can blame the people who scammed BOGO promotions and made profits of Verizon when they had the LOWEST etf in the industry for the increase.
    Last edited by Weekendbum; 12-04-2009 at 04:15 PM.
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    What he said.

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    When are consumers going to start taking some responsibility in their actions? Oh that's right - the government doesn't believe in accountability.

    Customers are made aware of the new etf. They sign their name to an agreement. If I break my apt lease 1 day before it's up I'm going to be paying some penalties. Alltel and other carriers don't even offer a prorated etf so 23 months in you still owe $200.

    What a waste of time for the FCC. Guess they finally got enough complaints. Socialism ringing in the new year!

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    I do agree. We have too much government regulating too much stuff. Sad to say, people want government to control everything and relieve them of their responsibility. Although I poke fun at VZW on occassion, I seriously agree that its their fee and not the governments; however, I do find it both humorous and disturbing that the same government that taxes me to death whether I like it or not, goes after Verizon for their fee. The last I looked, dealing with VZW is a voluntary thing, unlike the taxes.

    For the record, I tried VZW and when I didn't find the service for me, I returned the phone and VZW promptly refunded me. Violating an agreement to keep their phone would have been dishonest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgilmore16 View Post
    I do agree. We have too much government regulating too much stuff. Sad to say, people want government to control everything and relieve them of their responsibility. Although I poke fun at VZW on occassion, I seriously agree that its their fee and not the governments; however, I do find it both humorous and disturbing that the same government that taxes me to death whether I like it or not, goes after Verizon for their fee. The last I looked, dealing with VZW is a voluntary thing, unlike the taxes.

    For the record, I tried VZW and when I didn't find the service for me, I returned the phone and VZW promptly refunded me. Violating an agreement to keep their phone would have been dishonest.
    I agree 100%

    The FCC is asking VZW what formulas are set in place:

    2. Similarly, how can customers learn about the formula for prorating the ETF?
    Does Verizon Wireless provide the full terms and conditions, including the
    proration formula, anywhere other than in the formal Customer Agreement? If so,
    where? For example, is any relevant information provided on monthly bills?
    What is the format of the information provided? How can customers learn about
    the amount they will be charged if they terminate their service plan on a given
    date?
    I'm asking - what formulas are put in place to help American's calculate taxes, when IRS agents can barely comprehend our ridiculous tax code?

    This is a total waste of the FCC's time and VZW's time by inquiring about things that can easily be found on the website and in customer agreements.

    The FCC must not have a clue regarding VZW's practices if they are looking to the USA Today and the NY Times as news of this new ETF. This isn't an investigation - it is a response to scammers crying to the FCC about new policies set in place by a company. It is justified because VZW said so - meaning potential customers can take it or leave it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsguy52 View Post
    When are consumers going to start taking some responsibility in their actions? Oh that's right - the government doesn't believe in accountability.

    Customers are made aware of the new etf. They sign their name to an agreement. If I break my apt lease 1 day before it's up I'm going to be paying some penalties. Alltel and other carriers don't even offer a prorated etf so 23 months in you still owe $200.

    What a waste of time for the FCC. Guess they finally got enough complaints. Socialism ringing in the new year!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel S. View Post
    Can we stop blaming the various isms and call a spade a spade? People now are just whiny ingrates who demand everything for nothing.
    Socialism is such a politically correct word though.. lol

    But yes - that is where this country is headed.. Only 3 more years of the community organizer!
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    Where's the EFT bail-out money to help all those caught in the wireless phone contract scandal.
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    How does "questioning" become "investigating"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsguy52 View Post
    Socialism is such a politically correct word though.. lol

    But yes - that is where this country is headed.. Only 3 more years of the community organizer!
    Political correctness is one of the evils helping along the creeping advance of Socialism & leftist causes.

    There was a really good article out today regarding this - will pull & post.

    The action is grandstanding by the FCC, an agency now overrun by leftist communists who have no legal, moral or Constitutional directive to attempt controlling the financial or policy decisions of a legally operating American enterprise.

    And I am personally sick & tired of all the entitlement-minded, lazy commie leftists demanding some worthless government entity protect themselves from their own stupidity and/or laziness.

    If we let these dopes run roughshod over big companies, you are easy pickings.

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    um, so a government agency investigates a trades and services complaint, and suddenly we're all under threat and infiltrated by adherents of a defunct ideology? Sounds like someone left the door to the john birch crazy barn open again. All these agencies and practices were in place during the cold war, but then it was called consumer protection. I doubt vzw will have any action taken against it if the fine print is in place. If so, then yes, it is the customer's fault. If not, vzw got some splainin to do.

    Also, keep in mind there isn't one true communist, capitalist, or socialist economy or country on earth right now, so unwad your undergarments and go back to your tea bags steeped in glen beck's tears.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinsX2Dad View Post
    Political correctness is one of the evils helping along the creeping advance of Socialism & leftist causes.

    There was a really good article out today regarding this - will pull & post.

    The action is grandstanding by the FCC, an agency now overrun by leftist communists who have no legal, moral or Constitutional directive to attempt controlling the financial or policy decisions of a legally operating American enterprise.

    And I am personally sick & tired of all the entitlement-minded, lazy commie leftists demanding some worthless government entity protect themselves from their own stupidity and/or laziness.

    If we let these dopes run roughshod over big companies, you are easy pickings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by orgonebox View Post
    um, so a government agency investigates a trades and services complaint, and suddenly we're all under threat and infiltrated by adherents of a defunct ideology? Sounds like someone left the door to the john birch crazy barn open again. All these agencies and practices were in place during the cold war, but then it was called consumer protection. I doubt vzw will have any action taken against it if the fine print is in place. If so, then yes, it is the customer's fault. If not, vzw got some splainin to do.

    Also, keep in mind there isn't one true communist, capitalist, or socialist economy or country on earth right now, so unwad your undergarments and go back to your tea bags steeped in glen beck's tears.

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    It's one thing to go after a company that is doing harm to consumers, but going after a company after raising their ETF? Not only does the FCC question the company based on NY Times reports, but then doesn't take the 5 minutes to look at vzw.com for the answers. It is a WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY.

    This is just one small example of how big government needs to stay out the way of legit business practices. What's next?

    Just because our government does not accept socialism as an ideology doesn't mean we aren't moving towards that idea. We are seeing more government programs and more spending of money we don't have. Health care - how the **** can our government run a health care system when it does such a wonderful job with the almost bankrupt social security and medicare systems?

    It can't. It can't even keep 2 random people from entering the White House. How many weeks did it take to make a decision on Afghanistan? Our government you have so much faith in is, failing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsguy52 View Post
    Only 3 more years of the community organizer!
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgilmore16 View Post
    I do agree. We have too much government regulating too much stuff. Sad to say, people want government to control everything and relieve them of their responsibility. Although I poke fun at VZW on occassion, I seriously agree that its their fee and not the governments; however, I do find it both humorous and disturbing that the same government that taxes me to death whether I like it or not, goes after Verizon for their fee. The last I looked, dealing with VZW is a voluntary thing, unlike the taxes.

    For the record, I tried VZW and when I didn't find the service for me, I returned the phone and VZW promptly refunded me. Violating an agreement to keep their phone would have been dishonest.
    Seriously!!!???? From what I read it was they were asking questions not fining them, not telling them they did anything illegal, just asking a couple of questions.

    Maybe if other government agencies stopped to ask a few questions then maybe banks wouldn't have gave out mortgages to anyone with a name and stopped the greatest recession since the great depression.

    This is being blow way out of proportion. I seem to remember reading that the only reason there is any buy out of your cell contract at all is because of pressure from the FCC. (And before anyone else goes "you should honor your contract" tell that to my cousin who broke his so he could go to Iraq and fight for this country only to die serving all of us) He didn't need a his cell plan in Iraq so he legally paid his way out of a contract.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fyrfyter View Post
    Check this out, FCC questions Verizon Wireless about its new $350 early termination fee « Boy Genius Report It would seem that the FCC finds it weird too that after 23 months and a $350 ETF on all new smartphone devices, you would still owe $120 to Verizon. They also find that $1.99 fee if you accidentally access the mobile web kinda strange. About time someone questions them on some of this craziness!
    You know, VZW could avoid this by simply abandoning their contract rates altogether and sell devices at retail and month to .month...no etf...no worries...

    Wouldn't phase me in the least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsguy52 View Post
    Amen! Twins - now that we FINALLY agree on something does this mean this "public war" ends? lol..
    We always agreed on this - I am a well-known supporter of the Constitution around here.

    Quote Originally Posted by orgonebox View Post
    Also, keep in mind there isn't one true communist, capitalist, or socialist economy or country on earth right now
    The Capitalist claim is true, because we've let the Socialists & Communists in instead of shooting them like we used to before political correctness. The claim about the Socialist & Communists is true, because they've all failed miserably & the dummies keep experimenting.

    Anyone else ever notice how the politically correct pansies - the ones who want peace & respect are the first ones using name-calling when they have nothing intelligent to say (which is never for the Politically Correct Pansies, or PCP for short)?

    Hey PCP - look up the definition of teabagging. If you want us to teabag you, someone here might be willing to oblige you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain View Post
    You know, VZW could avoid this by simply abandoning their contract rates altogether and sell devices at retail and month to .month...no etf...no worries...
    Exactly - wouldn't faze me, either. Of course, to me, cell contracts are foolish anyway. But that is an argument for a different flamefest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j7469 View Post
    Seriously!!!???? From what I read it was they were asking questions not fining them, not telling them they did anything illegal, just asking a couple of questions.

    Maybe if other government agencies stopped to ask a few questions then maybe banks wouldn't have gave out mortgages to anyone with a name and stopped the greatest recession since the great depression.

    This is being blow way out of proportion. I seem to remember reading that the only reason there is any buy out of your cell contract at all is because of pressure from the FCC. (And before anyone else goes "you should honor your contract" tell that to my cousin who broke his so he could go to Iraq and fight for this country only to die serving all of us) He didn't need a his cell plan in Iraq so he legally paid his way out of a contract.
    So this doesn't make since,,, your cousin went over to Iraq and had to pay the ETF, when it could have been put on military suspend?

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    Not only that...

    But the ETF can actually be waived for those who have been called into active military duty...
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    Weren't the fees this high at one point anyway? Or was it roughly $275?
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    Verizon used to have the lowest ETF in the industry -- so people scammed them. Now they have the highest Smartphone ETF in the industry -- for now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinsX2Dad View Post
    Political correctness is one of the evils helping along the creeping advance of Socialism & leftist causes.

    There was a really good article out today regarding this - will pull & post.

    The action is grandstanding by the FCC, an agency now overrun by leftist communists who have no legal, moral or Constitutional directive to attempt controlling the financial or policy decisions of a legally operating American enterprise.

    And I am personally sick & tired of all the entitlement-minded, lazy commie leftists demanding some worthless government entity protect themselves from their own stupidity and/or laziness.

    If we let these dopes run roughshod over big companies, you are easy pickings.

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    Hahaha, I couldn't stop laughing reading this post. All us leftist communist socialist running roughshod over everything. Someone should stop us!

    Color me crazy but wasn't it, in part, the utter dismantling from 2000-2008 of the financial services sector that led to the recession that started well over a year ago? Wasn't it, in part, IRS, FTC, and primarily SEC's utter failures to take any regulatory action whatsoever during those years that created monsters like Countrywide? How about Enron? Remember them? Lack of oversight and appropriate regulation permitted lil ol' Enron to create markets trading in everything, including trading in the distribution of electricity services in places like California. Remember the rolling-blackouts/brownouts in the mid-2000s in California? Do you realize how much of that was caused my Enron's having shorted supply through effective market manipulation? Under an appropriate regulatory structure such manipulation wouldn't so easily occur.

    Regulation is a necessary and important part of our society. The FCC you criticize for looking into (not investigating - yet) VZW's practices is the FCC that many on here (myself included) praised just a couple of months back for their net-neutral public policy position which, in the end, is going to mean a **** of a lot more to CBs users than FCC's taking a look at an ETF policy that affects what, 1% of VZW's 88M lines. Really.

    And as for your assertion that FCC has no directive to conduct investigations, like nearly all independent regulatory bodies they operate under the authority of the legislative branch. This authority is granted to the legislative branch through in part The Commerce Clause of Art. 1, Sect. 8 (I'm 99% sure, sorry don't have my pocket US Constitution with me), which gives the legislature the authority to regulate interstate and other commerce. The natural extension of The Commerce Cause led to the creation of regulatory agencies (since Congress didn't have the resources to handle it all themselves.) FCC is a legally-operating entity under the US Constitution; the fact that you may not like the leftie commie pinkos currently appointed to it doesn't change that fact.

    Sorry for the quickie lesson in government regulatory powers, but the amount of misinformation that is passed along as gospel on here is simply staggering and, when used to simply attempt to further ones' own obvious political bitterness mandates correction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinsX2Dad View Post
    We always agreed on this - I am a well-known supporter of the Constitution around here.



    The Capitalist claim is true, because we've let the Socialists & Communists in instead of shooting them like we used to before political correctness. The claim about the Socialist & Communists is true, because they've all failed miserably & the dummies keep experimenting.

    Anyone else ever notice how the politically correct pansies - the ones who want peace & respect are the first ones using name-calling when they have nothing intelligent to say (which is never for the Politically Correct Pansies, or PCP for short)?

    Hey PCP - look up the definition of teabagging. If you want us to teabag you, someone here might be willing to oblige you.



    Exactly - wouldn't faze me, either. Of course, to me, cell contracts are foolish anyway. But that is an argument for a different flamefest.

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    Strong argument: let's shoot citizens who don't believe what we (ie: you) believe. What the **** does that have to do with a flipping early termination fee on a cell phone? Randomness abounds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlsparks View Post
    Hahaha, I couldn't stop laughing reading this post. All us leftist communist socialist running roughshod over everything. Someone should stop us!

    Color me crazy but wasn't it, in part, the utter dismantling from 2000-2008 of the financial services sector that led to the recession that started well over a year ago? Wasn't it, in part, IRS, FTC, and primarily SEC's utter failures to take any regulatory action whatsoever during those years that created monsters like Countrywide? How about Enron? Remember them? Lack of oversight and appropriate regulation permitted lil ol' Enron to create markets trading in everything, including trading in the distribution of electricity services in places like California. Remember the rolling-blackouts/brownouts in the mid-2000s in California? Do you realize how much of that was caused my Enron's having shorted supply through effective market manipulation? Under an appropriate regulatory structure such manipulation wouldn't so easily occur.

    Regulation is a necessary and important part of our society. The FCC you criticize for looking into (not investigating - yet) VZW's practices is the FCC that many on here (myself included) praised just a couple of months back for their net-neutral public policy position which, in the end, is going to mean a **** of a lot more to CBs users than FCC's taking a look at an ETF policy that affects what, 1% of VZW's 88M lines. Really.

    And as for your assertion that FCC has no directive to conduct investigations, like nearly all independent regulatory bodies they operate under the authority of the legislative branch. This authority is granted to the legislative branch through in part The Commerce Clause of Art. 1, Sect. 8 (I'm 99% sure, sorry don't have my pocket US Constitution with me), which gives the legislature the authority to regulate interstate and other commerce. The natural extension of The Commerce Cause led to the creation of regulatory agencies (since Congress didn't have the resources to handle it all themselves.) FCC is a legally-operating entity under the US Constitution; the fact that you may not like the leftie commie pinkos currently appointed to it doesn't change that fact.

    Sorry for the quickie lesson in government regulatory powers, but the amount of misinformation that is passed along as gospel on here is simply staggering and, when used to simply attempt to further ones' own obvious political bitterness mandates correction.
    Quote Originally Posted by jlsparks View Post
    Strong argument: let's shoot citizens who don't believe what we (ie: you) believe. What the **** does that have to do with a flipping early termination fee on a cell phone? Randomness abounds.
    Learn to write, spell & make grammatically correct statements - people might take what you have to say seriously.

    Then, once you figure out how to do that, you might try stringing together a half-rational argument explaining what might be served by the government regulating the price a carrier charges. You might find that you'll get nailed in the long run and your costs will rise.

    You leftists seem to forget that it was the free market that built America, Hong Kong, Japan, South Korea & Taiwan. It was government run markets, with regulations (to protect the irresponsible idiots who would otherwise fall off under Darwinism) that gave us Iran, Mexico, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Peru, Zimbabwe, etc.

    In nearly six decades, I have never met an intelligent soul who was left of center - all they can do is call names, whine & complain.

    Take away that higher ETF & what do you have? Initial costs nearly double what you have now - or the monthly goes up.

    Here is the breakdown of the stupidity in the article - mostly caused by David Pogue...

    FCC Investigating Verizon Termination Fees, Billing Practices

    The other shoe has finally dropped for Verizon. Responding to customer and press complaints about Verizon’s changed early termination fees (ETFs), and mobile web billing practices, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) has decided to ask a few questions.

    Verizon recently changed its policies regarding ETFs--it doubled them for new customers who opt for smartphones. Makes sense, given that Verizon’s initial subsidy of smartphones is greater--if a customer bails before their agreement is up Verizon would like to get its money back. David Pogue, at The New York Times, does the math and figures that at the end of a two-year contract there’s still $110 left on the ETF. He asks the obvious question: “Shouldn’t the fee go down to zero at the end of your contract?” (Maybe, David - except you're again assuming the ETF is to cover a subsidy - it isn't, ya dope - but it is to recover costs for the consumer breaking their end of the deal AND the lower initial cost of the phone from VZW. Witness several smartphones on VZW that are $120-$150 less than Sprint ot T-Mobile.)

    The FCC wants to know just how much information Verizon is divulging to new smartphone customers about the ETF: how it’s calculated; how much will be due at the end of the contract; and how can it be avoided. The FCC also wants clarification on how the ETF is prorated. Like Pogue they are curious about why any fee should remain at the end of a contract. (Again, there is no fee at the end of the contract - it is ZERO. Pogue & the FCC never were accused of being intelligent.)

    Verizon’s “Wireless Mobile Web” is also under scrutiny. Verizon hardwires access to its mobile wireless service to a phone button. Can’t be changed. Can’t be disabled. Users accidentally pressing the button wind up with a $1.99 charge on their monthly bill--even if they cancel the mobile web request immediately. Pogue relates from a Verizon insider that Verizon’s phones are designed with this ‘feature,’ and that some 87 million customers each month will accidentally hit the mobile web key. A little more math from Pogue reveals that to be $300 million per month of revenue from a simple mistake. (Nope - wrong again. Hit the key & then you have to accept before you go into the chargeable screen unless YOU change settings)

    Like with ETFs, the FCC wants to know how Verizon’s mobile web service; how much information is given to customers about the service; what protections they receive; and why the heck can’t customers reprogram their phones to prevent this. (real simple, boys & girls - no reprogramming needed - don't like it? You can always switch.)

    ===============================
    Here is a reality. If I were to start a new account on Sprint, with five smartphones - lets say a pair of HTC TP2s, an Android phone & a two BlackBerry Tours. Sprint's monthly rate absolutely slaughters that found on VZW or AT&T. And, I've been through it - the customer service & billing is not anything great, but no worse than the competition - including the vaunted VZW. But to start that new Sprint service, I'd be looking at $1180 in device charges. With VZW, I would be looking at $750 in phones - about $430 difference. The difference in ETFs between the two is about $750. The majority of people do not ever break their contract, unless they are wanting to rip off a carrier for phones.

    You can pay more up front or you can pay more when you break your contract. The smart soul pays less & then honors their contract.
    Notice: My opinion does not reflect opinions of VZW, Lower Elbonia, your ED med vendor, or any entity. I'm entitled to my opinion, just as you're entitled to my opinion. I can't speak for your account - no access to it. My words can't replace speaking to the company you're ticked off at. To me, all carriers suck, especially yours. I don't do PMs & am not a private tech guru. I rail against PC & may offend you at any time. I don't cater to ignorance, but honest talk is welcome. Have a great day.
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