Explanation: BB's Implementation of Time Zones

[CanuckBB]

I travel frequently.

Maybe it's because I don't like to remember a lot of TZ info, maybe it's because I don't like to have to do TZ math, But I like to look at my calendar and see real appt time. By that I mean, when I'm on the ground wherever I want to know the appt time. I don't want to translate 0800?? will actually be 0900 the following day.

For that I enter all my appt in my local TZ. And at some point between the movie and the crappy scnacks, I take 30 seconds and change the time on the Berry. It's not hard, it's not rocket science. I don't want my BB to adjust time automatically because cell time implementation is inconsistent. I don't want it to update TZ automaticaly because I don't want it to re-adjust all my appt time and OTA sync to Exchange.

I'd say if your biggest complaint about your BB is the time change issue, you're doing pretty good.

[mykalgrant]

ok this explains how and why but this camper is still not happy, i moved over from the brick treo 700p which had no problmes with switching over to different time zones and it would leave your app times untouched.
i travel a lot by vehicle between time zones and states like northern Indiana is a dual zone, ct and et
im not as much concerned about my app times but ability to see in what time zone i am if driving trough and what is the local time,
its a pain in the **** that such a great phone has a such a design flaw.

Great post. I do agree with bartaholic that the treo does have an integrated calendar and automatically changes time zones using the network. That would be a great enhancement for RIM to include. Even my wife's iPhone changed the time.

Regarding the note by JeffH "You're right of course. But auto adjust would mess up the calendar for all the folks who don't use it correctly."

This is a user error in my opinion. You are given the opportunity to select the timezone of the meeting. I am on conference calls all the time time across multiple time zones. When someone says we are going to have a meeting at 2:00pm Eastern Time, I select that time zone when I add the meeting and it shows up in my correct time zone. Users not knowing how to add appointments should not preclude RIM from having the time automatically update.

[coyotesland]

Jeff, thanks for your work!

Unfortunately, I don't get it: it seems that the BB folks who design these devices never actually travel. The suggestions to simply change TZ when entering appointments is a weak and horribly inefficient 'short cut' to a problem that BB software engineers created - - not MS - - and it defies common sense. My 6-year old Samsung didn't have these challenges, nor do the Treos. I have heard that the iphone also doesn't have this problem, though I don't know that for sure.

1) If I travel from CST to EST and want to schedule an appointment, then I am forced to add the extra steps of choosing the proper TZ in my calendar so that the appointment is scheduled at the proper time. That is slower, inefficient, and dramatically increases the probability of manual errors. On the other hand, if the BB changed time without changing appointment times and I wanted to schedule a meeting in a city in another TZ, say EST (whether while at home in CST or while on the road in EST), I wouldn’t need to do anything additional - - just enter the bloody appointment. BB seems to not understand that 3 p.m. is 3 p.m. - why complicate it by asking in what TZ that 3 p.m. appointment occurs?

2) Worse, if I am on travel in EST and looking at my calendar trying to determine when I can schedule an appointment when I return home to CST, the calendar will not be accurate because it will be displaying my home appointments in the “current” EST time - - so I have to remember to adjust the calendar in my head and be able to say to myself: “that appointment on my calendar at 2pm back in Chiacgo really isn’t at 2 p.m. it is really at 1 p.m. so I can really go ahead and schedule an appointment at 2 p.m. Or, I get to go through the extra steps of changing the TZ back to my home TZ so that the appointments times are "re-adjusted' and I see what my real schedule is.

Even if BB were to have some reason to force users to manually choose the TZ, the fact that existing appointment times are changed is INSANE!! Talk about the height of inefficiency! This is ridiculous - these 'tools' are supposed to be about efficiency and productivity! The fact is, 2p.m. is 2p.m., no matter where on the face of the earth you happen to be located at any given point in time (for purposes of meetings while travelling; obviously, scheduling conference calls with multiple parties in multiple TZs does require a different approach).

I just don't get it - - but I do appreciate your taking time to clarify the rationale. I hope, however, that BB pays some attention because, as one prior reader already stated, the fact that this issue rises consistently should be a big hint to them.

[branta]

Originally Posted by coyotesland

On the other hand, if the BB changed time without changing appointment times and I wanted to schedule a meeting in a city in another TZ, say EST (whether while at home in CST or while on the road in EST), I wouldn’t need to do anything additional - - just enter the bloody appointment.

You can do this very easily. Set a "standard" time zone and never change it. Change the clock time instead.

BB seems to not understand that 3 p.m. is 3 p.m. - why complicate it by asking in what TZ that 3 p.m. appointment occurs?

Because in the modern international business world that is exactly what is necessary. If we talk on the phone and agree to talk again "tomorrow at 9am" the next question is "Which 9am, yours or mine". I don't care if you get it wrong and call me at your 9am but you probably don't want me to call you at 9am UK time.

The fact is, 2p.m. is 2p.m., no matter where on the face of the earth you happen to be located at any given point in time (for purposes of meetings while travelling; obviously, scheduling conference calls with multiple parties in multiple TZs does require a different approach).

I just don't get it - - but I do appreciate your taking time to clarify the rationale. I hope, however, that BB pays some attention because, as one prior reader already stated, the fact that this issue rises consistently should be a big hint to them.

You immediately rebut your claim that there is only one 2pm, but you don't seem to understand that it is in fact totally false, even after your recognition of cross timezone issues.

There is no rational solution to the problem. Some users work in an environment where timezones are essential, and the phone *must* provide some kind of support. There are at least 3 conflicting ideas for the correct solution - all are technically valid, but only one can be implemented and there are no practical workarounds to implement different methods. Other users (like you) want timezone support removed, and revert back to the dumbphone approach (at least this has the workaround of ignoring timezone).

It is impossible to satisfy all the users. However, given the number of BlackBerry users around the world, around 500K CB members here, but the relatively small number bitching about timezone implementation in this and other threads - it seems reasonable to suggest the RIM solution is probably acceptable to a substantial majority.

[coyotesland]

There is no need to remove TZ support, at all - you don't seem to understand the difference in scheduling appointments versus phone calls across multiple time zones. As I previously recognized the latter still requires a determination of time zone REGARDLESS of the manner in which this issue is resolved - - I still have to know to what TZ the 9am refers in order to enter it correctly - - choosing to link a TZ to the call time in and of itself does not alleviate this need.

I haven't contradicted myself at all: for meeting purposes - which are still a preponderance of schedulings - if I am meeting you in London then 9am is 9am. - my argument is completely consistent. I appreciate that a fix is to adjust the time on the BB when traveling and not the TZ; but why not provide an option to link the calendar to the TZ? Utilizing the solution that BB has provided and as you have discussed, does not a address the resulting complication of looking at individual calendars across multiple time zones. It is great for scheduling phone calls, woefully inadequate for any other calendar purpose - - you might like to refer to this as "reverting back to the dumbphone approach" but this doesn't address the reality of business meetings/scheduling.

[branta]

With only a single scheduling application available, it has to work in a way which is compatible with your meeting schedules and your phone schedule. It also has to work acceptably for me, with predominantly a 20/80 mix of same zone appointments / worldwide phonecalls. As your required behaviors are completely different, and I (and probably 50% of other calendar users) each have a unique and different ideal behavior, this is not a practical target for the developers.

Calendar IS linked to time zone. Event times adjust automatically to reflect time zone changes, and any new events will default to current time zone (whatever it happens to be) when the entry is made. I have to admit... it gets interesting when I try to schedule a call for next week, and both parties will be in different time zones but neither of us knows which ones.

[JeffH]

What I wish both Outlook and the BlackBerry would do is allow you to associate a time zone with dates. If you could say "Use the Central Time Zone for all meetings next week", then I could look ahead and print an agenda for next week in GMT-6 without having to fiddle with the clock or the calendar.

Scheduling a meeting or a call when neither party knows what time zone they'll be in is trivial if everybody uses UTC. But certainly not intuitive for most people. I'm typing this on 1/16 at 3:22 UTC. No wonder I'm tired...

[ff160000]

Ok - I have read everything I can find on the TZ issue. As a newbie - I have one simple question - I set my Pearl to "network" or "off" and the time never changes on my phone. It always shows the "home" time zone - CST. Why have the choice to change from network, BlackBerry or off when the time shown on the phone remains the same as the home time??

I apologize if this is redundant - I have been reading for 3 hours and can't find the answer to my question. And yes, I have "updated" the time and "saved".

Thank you!!

Loren

[MisterB]

Sorry, guys- but you've got to stop drinking the kool-aid and excusing RIM for such an obvious flaw. Ten year old Palms have this figured out because the internal clock gets updated based on the cell signal it receives. This isn't rocket science, and RIM needs to fix it. While they're at it, how about color coding appointments? How hard is it? How about making a task list that is logical too?

There's a lot to like about RIM, but these easy to fix shortcomings are wearing on me.

[JeffH]

Originally Posted by ff160000

Ok - I have read everything I can find on the TZ issue. As a newbie - I have one simple question - I set my Pearl to "network" or "off" and the time never changes on my phone. It always shows the "home" time zone - CST. Why have the choice to change from network, BlackBerry or off when the time shown on the phone remains the same as the home time??

I apologize if this is redundant - I have been reading for 3 hours and can't find the answer to my question. And yes, I have "updated" the time and "saved".

Thank you!!

Loren

It's a lot to read, but your questions are answered in Post #1 in this thread. Of course, by the time you got here, you could easily have forgotten the question, much less the answer, so here it is again:

Time Zone Updates
BlackBerry devices do not change timezones automatically as you travel. There is no option to enable this! When arriving in a new time zone, you should manually set the time at Options > Date/Time.

Time Settings Options on your BlackBerry
BlackBerry - Synchronizes the time (minutes) with the Research In Motion BlackBerry Infrastructure and not the BlackBerry Enterprise Server.
Network - Synchronizes the time (minutes) with your service provider's local network time.
Off - Does not synchronize the date or time.

For most users, the correct setting for Date / Time Source is Network. That will sync the minutes to the local network time. You will still have to manually select the correct time zone.

[zazzified]

Sorry if I overlooked this in a response, but how would you recommend putting in actual flights that cross time zones? In other words, I have a flight that leaves at 12:00 Eastern and lands at 3:10 Mountain. I want it to be accurate when I land so that I don't get confused with my appointments after landing. Should I just separate the take off and landing into two appointments, the first in Eastern time and the second in Mountain time?

[JeffH]

Originally Posted by zazzified

Sorry if I overlooked this in a response, but how would you recommend putting in actual flights that cross time zones? In other words, I have a flight that leaves at 12:00 Eastern and lands at 3:10 Mountain. I want it to be accurate when I land so that I don't get confused with my appointments after landing. Should I just separate the take off and landing into two appointments, the first in Eastern time and the second in Mountain time?

That's what I do. Two separate appointments of zero time duration, using the correct time zone. So when you leave, your BlackBerry will show two appointments, a dep at 12:00 ET and an arr at 5:10 ET. When you land and change to MT, your BlackBerry will show your dep at 10:00 MT and arr at 3:10 MT, and all will be correct. My sympathies for a 5-hr flight. Hopefully all the screaming babies won't.

[zazzified]

Ok, thanks. I'll do that. Glad I read this before because I hadn't even thought about it.

And I am just grateful that I don't have a layover like I did last time I did this trip (pre BlackBerry)!

[zazzified]

Ok so I plugged that in, and it shows a departure at 12:10 ET and an arrival at 5:10 ET, like you said. I have the first in ET and the second in Mountain. When I land, will that first time change too? I'm confused because it seems to just adjust back to ET as it stands now. When I go in to edit the landing, it's resaved at 5:10 ET with no hint that I ever put it in Mountain. Oy, I read the first post but I am just confusing myself now, haha.

[JeffH]

The BlackBerry will only display one time zone at a time. So all your appointments are displayed in ET now, including your arrival, which will be at 5:10 pm ET. When you arrive in MT, and change your Time Zone to MT, all your appointments will change to MT. So your departure time from the East Coast will now be shown as 10:10 am MT and your arrival as 3:10 pm MT.

All your times will be correct for the time zone selected, as long as they were entered with the correct time zone. Where people get in trouble is trying to use "Local Time," like the airlines do. If you enter your departure at 12:10 and your arrival at 3:10 without regard to time zones, you'll never get it right.