Is Tmobile Crippling Wifi?

Hey All,

So I'm a relatively new (3 Weeks) TMO customer ....I really am impressed with the customer service after the sale and many of the options. I left verizon due to repeated poor customer service and exorbant billing.

Heres my issue.....I purchased (2) 8900's and (1) 8320...of course all had WI-FI. This was a huge selling point for me since I cancelled my home phone, and added 9.99 hotspot calling. I intended to do mostly UMA calling which seems to have been the case so far (I've used 400 minutes on UMA and 38 network. So I have 3 lines and I decided begrudgingly yesterday to cancel the data on all three lines, and just use the data apps when im in a WI-FI area. I did this to save some money since 75.00 in data is a bit much for me to handle and to be honest I'm dying on bills right now. So I called and was told I just skirted under the requirement which apparently is that all blackberry purchases after July 1 require you to maintain data plans...either 24.99 or 34.99 w/texting.....So I informed her I wanted to cancel and just keep an eye on how well I could fare on just WI FI and she politely obliged me but made no other warnings or coments.

So fast forward 20 minutes I notice ALL my phone(s) only display uma.....not UMA....and when I left WI FI range all I could get was edge and not EDGE.....I had 2 phones at my house on brand new Linksys router/Cox Cable High Speed Internet and another 8900 at my friends on completely different network with new Netgear Router/Cox HSI, and all my networks were previously screaming loud and I hadn't changed any settings.
When I opened the browser I couldnt connect on WI FI or edge....I tried changing my browser configs and clearing the event log/cache/cookies then battery pulling/quickpull again.
I figured I was just imagining it and so I quickpulled adain and then tried again...same thing....I then went into my connections and tried forcing the phone into UMA/EDGE...no go....I did this for 3 hours and finally got upset.
I called TMO CS and asked for Blackberry Support....the tech came on and I asked flat out if cancelling the data plan cripples your WI FI and he said yes?!?!

I was shocked...I asked why my dropping OTA data would affect my WI FI ...as I understood why it WOULD be affected OTA but not WI FI....and he said code or something was sent to the phone when i cancelled my data plan to essentially cripple it down.
I then asked if google maps was considered data or GPS/Internal since I was using it after cancelling the data he said even though GPS is built into my phone it is considered billable data?

So I buckled and said add it back on I dont wanna get hit for data charges and i want a good connection.....I hung up and waited a few minutes...quickpulled and my phone was UMA/EDGE again!!!!...I was happy but confused...I was told when I came to TMO by multiple people that the great thing about tmo was that even if I didn't want data I could always use WI FI.
I'm wondering what happened...

Heres My Details

1800 MYfaves Family 89.99
9.99 Hotspot Calling
Insurance
24.99 Data X 3 Lines 75.00
24.99 Unlimited Family Text/MMS

Thanks for any help guys.....also they told me that without data BB messenger and pin messages would be fine because there treated like texts and not as data? Was that true...even though it doesnt matter anymore i guess?

Sorry For The Long Post Guys

[dvaskelis]

There are lots of different approaches to data on a BlackBerry, almost all of which use your carrier's and/or RIM's infrastructure, including APN, WAP, BIS and BIS. Any application that is written to work with one of these approaches requires your carrier's data provisioning since the data will go over their network, even if you reach that network via UMA.

UMA or EDGE means you have a BIS or BES connection established. You don't, since you asked to have your data de-provisioned, and therefore BIS or BES connection is no longer available. Under UMA, it's via your WiFi which allows a VPN tunnel back to T-Mobile's BIS or your company's BES. You can still get that VPN tunnel up back to T-Mobile's network to make calls and SMS ("uma") but they won't route any data (to their APN, WAP, or MDS servers) over that tunnel unless you are provisioned for it.

You can still use BlackBerry applications that use direct TCP (aka "WiFi/Hotspot Browser") connections, as they don't go through T-Mobile's network but rely purely on your WiFi to connect. But, unfortunately, most "well-written" BlackBerry applications work primarily or exclusively via BIS/BES. It's easier on developers to rely on RIM's BlackBerry Data Services (via BIS/BES) rather than have to write code to handle infrastructure issues that RIM deals with on BIS/BES servers that now the BlackBerry device will need to handle directly.

Originally Posted by dvaskelis

There are lots of different approaches to data on a BlackBerry, almost all of which use your carrier's and/or RIM's infrastructure, including APN, WAP, BIS and BIS. Any application that is written to work with one of these approaches requires your carrier's data provisioning since the data will go over their network, even if you reach that network via UMA.

UMA or EDGE means you have a BIS or BES connection established. You don't, since you asked to have your data de-provisioned, and therefore BIS or BES connection is no longer available. Under UMA, it's via your WiFi which allows a VPN tunnel back to T-Mobile's BIS or your company's BES. You can still get that VPN tunnel up back to T-Mobile's network to make calls and SMS ("uma") but they won't route any data (to their APN, WAP, or MDS servers) over that tunnel unless you are provisioned for it.

You can still use BlackBerry applications that use direct TCP (aka "WiFi/Hotspot Browser") connections, as they don't go through T-Mobile's network but rely purely on your WiFi to connect. But, unfortunately, most "well-written" BlackBerry applications work primarily or exclusively via BIS/BES. It's easier on developers to rely on RIM's BlackBerry Data Services (via BIS/BES) rather than have to write code to handle infrastructure issues that RIM deals with on BIS/BES servers that now the BlackBerry device will need to handle directly.

BIG HELP......OK...I GET IT NOW.....BUT THEN WHY ADVERTISE THAT YOULL STILL HAVE INTERNET ACCESS WITH WI FI .....I TOOK IT LIKE I WOULD STILL CONNECT TO WI FI UNFETTERED

[dvaskelis]

Originally Posted by larrygump

BIG HELP......OK...I GET IT NOW.....BUT THEN WHY ADVERTISE THAT YOULL STILL HAVE INTERNET ACCESS WITH WI FI .....I TOOK IT LIKE I WOULD STILL CONNECT TO WI FI UNFETTERED

Depends on what you mean by Internet access. Your BlackBerry can still get to the Internet via WiFi without T-Mobile's network, but you need to set it up to do that.

First, you need to have your BlackBerry stop trying to use T-Mobile's APN (data) server. Go to Options >Advanced Options >TCP/IP, disable APN and remove the APN server address information and any user or password that might be there.

From that point, now you have to tell your applications to use direct TCP connections. Go into your application settings and see if they have connection settings. Most application don't have direct TCP connectivity, unfortunately, and rely on RIM's BlackBerry Data Services and T-Mobile's APN, WAP, or BIS. But, if they do have connection settings, try anything that sounds like "Direct", "TCP", "HotSpot", "WiFi" or "Auto". Those applications have a shot to work over WiFi alone without any help from T-Mobile or RIM servers or proxies.

For example, in the Browser, in you want to surf web pages, you should be able to go to Options, Browser Configuration, set Browser to "HotSpot Browser", go back to General Options, set Default Browser to "HotSpot Browser". Once you do that, you should be able to browse Internet web pages via WiFi direct TCP connectivity. Note that I think this can get a bit funky, like T-Mobile's WAP server (via UMA VPN tunnel) will not be available for streaming video, for example, or images will not be re-compressed/scaled like you are probably used to when they are served up via BIS proxy.

Originally Posted by dvaskelis

Depends on what you mean by Internet access. Your BlackBerry can still get to the Internet via WiFi without T-Mobile's network, but you need to set it up to do that.

First, you need to have your BlackBerry stop trying to use T-Mobile's APN (data) server. Go to Options >Advanced Options >TCP/IP, disable APN and remove the APN server address information and any user or password that might be there.

From that point, now you have to tell your applications to use direct TCP connections. Go into your application settings and see if they have connection settings. Most application don't have direct TCP connectivity, unfortunately, and rely on RIM's BlackBerry Data Services and T-Mobile's APN, WAP, or BIS. But, if they do have connection settings, try anything that sounds like "Direct", "TCP", "HotSpot", "WiFi" or "Auto". Those applications have a shot to work over WiFi alone without any help from T-Mobile or RIM servers or proxies.

For example, in the Browser, in you want to surf web pages, you should be able to go to Options, Browser Configuration, set Browser to "HotSpot Browser", go back to General Options, set Default Browser to "HotSpot Browser". Once you do that, you should be able to browse Internet web pages via WiFi direct TCP connectivity. Note that I think this can get a bit funky, like T-Mobile's WAP server (via UMA VPN tunnel) will not be available for streaming video, for example, or images will not be re-compressed/scaled like you are probably used to when they are served up via BIS proxy.

Got it....let me pose this question....why did my call quality degrade....and why am I getting call failed messages now?

2nd: I added the data plans back on....however why does my phone keep jumping off of my UMA and back on to a lesser edge connection. I have WI FI preferred and followed the WI FI how to here on CB?.....I tried hard resetting both the router and the phones and i even relocated my router to a higher more central location

[dvaskelis]

Originally Posted by larrygump

Got it....let me pose this question....why did my call quality degrade....and why am I getting call failed messages now?

2nd: I added the data plans back on....however why does my phone keep jumping off of my UMA and back on to a lesser edge connection. I have WI FI preferred and followed the WI FI how to here on CB?.....I tried hard resetting both the router and the phones and i even relocated my router to a higher more central location

Sounds like router issues. I gave up trying to set up my fancy WiFi router at home as UMA calling was way too unreliable at home but worked great when at a T-Mobile store or a Starbucks. I bought a T-Mobile-branded Linksys WRT54G-TM and have happily used UMA since.

FYI, great page for BlackBerry WiFi without data plan issues: Blackberry without BIS | Scott Savage’s Blog

[Artemis68]

I use UMA just Fine with a Linksys WRT54G. It's not from tmo but it works well. You can get one for cheap.

I think tmo doesn't cripple wifi but it's more of an issue of apps not working via wifi. That's bot tmo's fault.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Originally Posted by Artemis68

I use UMA just Fine with a Linksys WRT54G. It's not from tmo but it works well. You can get one for cheap.

I think tmo doesn't cripple wifi but it's more of an issue of apps not working via wifi. That's bot tmo's fault.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Well I would agree except not onl.y did I have browser issues....I also had call quality issues

[Artemis68]

Originally Posted by larrygump

Well I would agree except not onl.y did I have browser issues....I also had call quality issues

That is not supposed to happen at all. Lots of people use UMA and Wi-Fi for calls and internet without lag or other things.

Maybe you could send it in for repair or something...

[onegreatsmile]

I seem to have the same issue with call quality on my home WiFi router. I resorted to leaving it off most of the time, which pretty much defeats the purpose.

[arete]

Wow that sux if they actually cripple your wifi over canceling. Thankfully I got my Bb outside of a contract so I don't have a data plan but that just sounds like revenge lol.