Possible reason why leaks have MAJOR problems

**Brockmant** · 03-20-2009, 09:48 AM

I was giving leaks a thought and came to a giant conclusion. (My assumption) The author of the Twilight Series is actually in a lawsuit right now. She gave out several different version of her final book. Someone leaked the book on the internet and now she knows WHICH person it was because each book was a touch different. Maybe the reason leaks have had A MAJOR issue in each is so that they know which person or which sector leaked the OS.

A company will notice these big problems and if we can fix them as easy as we did, they are able to also.

For example. Company 1, 2 and 3 were given OS to test and look at. All of a sudden on the internet RIM sees Beta .114 was leaked with the dialpad problem. Well they gave dial pad problem to company 2. Boom they know who did it and who not to trust.

**Demok** · 03-20-2009, 09:50 AM

that is a good point. I never thought of it that way.

**Zan.exe** · 03-20-2009, 09:51 AM

Nope. They don't care about people leaking that much really. We are only a few thousand people. Not a big deal. They wouldn't waste time doing that.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

**markdental** · 03-20-2009, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Brockmant

I was giving leaks a thought and came to a giant conclusion. (My assumption) The author of the Twilight Series is actually in a lawsuit right now. She gave out several different version of her final book. Someone leaked the book on the internet and now she knows WHICH person it was because each book was a touch different. Maybe the reason leaks have had A MAJOR issue in each is so that they know which person or which sector leaked the OS.

A company will notice these big problems and if we can fix them as easy as we did, they are able to also.

For example. Company 1, 2 and 3 were given OS to test and look at. All of a sudden on the internet RIM sees Beta .114 was leaked with the dialpad problem. Well they gave dial pad problem to company 2. Boom they know who did it and who not to trust.

The problem with this theory is that .114 is a final compile. Meaning that there is only one .114 version. They may be able to embed a tracking code (which has no effect on performance) within different .114 files to tell where it was sent, but .114 will still run the same on each device.

So they released .114 to partners for testing and it was leaked. It's not about what COMPANY they can trust, its about that company controlling their employees.

**BrianW2007** · 03-20-2009, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by markdental

So they released .114 to partners for testing and it was leaked. It's not about what COMPANY they can trust, its about that company controlling their employees.

Forgive me for asking because i know we were all explained the leak process, how it is not RIM but others. But, My guess is RIM have their own testers, correct? So, a build like .114 - Why in the world would they release that to a 3rd party?

Something/somebody is pulling our leg lol

Saying RIM doesn't leak internally, is like me telling you GM/CHRYSLER/FORD/MISTUBISHI has never had an engine failure

**th30wn4g3** · 03-20-2009, 09:59 AM

Well my theory is that when working on lets say .85 that release is made solely and specifically to test(privately) new code for let's say the cam function not necessarily to be a stable release as a whole.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

**Brockmant** · 03-20-2009, 10:15 AM

Ok, lets change out my word of COMPANY with EMPLOYEES. Yes .114 may be a final build but what is to say they can't simply change 1 file as it has not been OFFICIALLY released to be able to find out which employee leaked it. 114 probably has many different builds to it because it does not just appear out of thin air. If they build 114 they can change different things at different times to make it what it is.

**gobroncos** · 03-20-2009, 10:51 AM

I think you have a good point. But first off we're a small minority. Secondly, why do they care? If we're stupid enough to run software that isn't stable, we're the ones paying the price, not them.

**hudss** · 03-20-2009, 10:58 AM

What is the color of the sky in your world?

**snork** · 03-20-2009, 11:00 AM

its a little different because once a build is completed, it is the same. i.e. any version .114 will be the same. if there are any other changes made, it will have a different version, (i.e. .115 or .116 etc etc)

i suppose its possible for companies to compile with the same edition, but i feel that would make beta testing and troubleshooting much more difficult.

**kinggeoff** · 03-20-2009, 11:01 AM

the one problem with that is that in the case of that waste of a novel, it is a product which the author is trying to make money off of. Leaks, in that case, are terrible for profits.

As for an OS update which costs nothing...there really isnt a reason to dump R&D money into tracking methods and monitoring.

**my_2_cents** · 03-20-2009, 11:03 AM

RIM doesn't have too many concerns about the beta versions we get. They get the benefit of a few thousand more testers for that version, and it creates a bit of a buzz for all those tech heads who like to play with their phones. Think about it, if these guys couldn't play with hybrid beta OS's etc, they'd go get a G1 with open source code to play with, or play with unlocking the Iphone.

The leaked betas keep the tech heads interested in the blackberry products.

Anything they want kept private they would give only to a limited group of testers. Much like a video game, they don't need thousands of people working on it to see if it works, just a few dozen professional testers who are looking for problems. Each of us likely only uses our BB a few hours per day total, the rest of the time its on a charger or in its holster. The testers will use the phone 8 hours per day, trying every possible action and abuse with it to make it fail in every possible way.

If you have an OS that you believe is stable and ready for use, you then release it to Beta. You have to see if your ***** proof technology can really survive the idiots.

**kevinwd** · 03-20-2009, 11:41 AM

My guess is they are fixing as they go and compiling incremental versions. Fix one thing break two others. As QA finds stuff they fix it. They probably repeat this process until they feel like they have eliminated high frequency/severity bugs, then move on to the mediums. Adding in new features probably doesn't help the timeline, but they are probably get pressure from product managers as feedback is coming from users and VZW.

**Mr. Spontaneous** · 03-20-2009, 11:42 AM

I, for one, am skeptical of the whole "RIM needs testers" position. Quite frankly, having people say "ZOMG, my MMS doesn't work", or, "Sometimes my screen flashes a portrait of Lucifer himself" doesn't help devs - you usually need a detailed bug report/stack trace so they can replicate the error.

Without being able to replicate people's bugs, this added feedback/noise is virtually useless.

**dd214** · 03-20-2009, 11:50 AM

The defense mapping Agency will intentionally put errors on their military maps to detect copying as well.

I would think it would more logical if they input something smaller and not "defective" that could id the source of the leak. Lots of places in software to hide things,,,

**spawn026** · 03-20-2009, 12:09 PM

if they wanted to digitally watermark the file then it would more then likely be placed in the binary in a null area in one of the many files. they aren't going to purposely break there own code thats being tested

**imahugemoron** · 03-20-2009, 12:30 PM

That's an interesting idea, but I think the more likely source of the problems is what many people, even CX I believe, have suggested: that each build isn't necessarily a continuation of the last. You can have many parallel builds going at once to fix different problems or to add certain features of a specific list, and then they are compiled into a new build. After that build is made, the process starts over. If I were a software engineer (I'm not, but still), that's the way I would do it, it seems the most logical. I mean look at all the hybrids people make now and post for us, don't people usually say those work the best? Doesn't that seem like something a software company would do? It would also explain how the numbers we don't know about have gotten so high (radio has hinted at upwards of .17X in the mix). I don't know, that makes the most sense to me, I didn't mean to ramble on this much, haha.

**yapkuen** · 03-20-2009, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by spawn026

if they wanted to digitally watermark the file then it would more then likely be placed in the binary in a null area in one of the many files. they aren't going to purposely break there own code thats being tested

Agreed, especially if they're distributing these files specifically to allow people to test them and report back on what works and what doesn't. If you purposely insert a major defect like the dial pad problem, then everyone will focus on that problem when they report back and the actual little stuff you WANT them to fix risks falling through the cracks.

**KingChato** · 03-20-2009, 12:48 PM

ok im out of subject on this one but i just want to get a possible answer for this i have two storms, one for personal use and one for work ( i would've never bought a storm if i would've known that my job was gonna isue me one) any way i'm running .75 on both but yet the one my job gave me has better color depth, why are they different if running same os?????

**joshhendry** · 03-20-2009, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Zan.exe

Nope. They don't care about people leaking that much really. We are only a few thousand people. Not a big deal. They wouldn't waste time doing that.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Wow we sure are lucky to have people like you on CB. Full of knowledge it seems.

It makes perfectly good sense to protect your future releases of software and hardware to test the people and companies to see who you can trust.

**Zelmo88** · 03-20-2009, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by my_2_cents

RIM doesn't have too many concerns about the beta versions we get. They get the benefit of a few thousand more testers for that version, and it creates a bit of a buzz for all those tech heads who like to play with their phones. Think about it, if these guys couldn't play with hybrid beta OS's etc, they'd go get a G1 with open source code to play with, or play with unlocking the Iphone.

The leaked betas keep the tech heads interested in the blackberry products.

Anything they want kept private they would give only to a limited group of testers. Much like a video game, they don't need thousands of people working on it to see if it works, just a few dozen professional testers who are looking for problems. Each of us likely only uses our BB a few hours per day total, the rest of the time its on a charger or in its holster. The testers will use the phone 8 hours per day, trying every possible action and abuse with it to make it fail in every possible way.

If you have an OS that you believe is stable and ready for use, you then release it to Beta. You have to see if your ***** proof technology can really survive the idiots.

I would agree. Obviously, RIM knows that we are all out here diligently playing with the leaked OS's. And from a competitive standpoint, I don't see anyone here trying to rewrite RIM's code and sell it as a competing product. In essence, they're getting a bunch of amateur beta testers to play with their software. I'm sure they monitor these and other forums to see what problems and comments we come up with, since we represent their "market". Besides, think of the millions of possible configurations of 3rd party apps, themes, etc. that we have on our phones and they are getting feedback on how those configurations work with their OS. When developing a product, the more feedback you get from your "market" the better! We're just the guinea pigs!
Just my .02!

**Six to Midnight** · 03-20-2009, 02:08 PM

RIM doesn't intentionally leak betas. Otherwise, why wouldn't we get them more often and sooner? We know (thanks to Radio, CX, Sith) that RIM is far ahead in the builds and has some pretty good ones. Why wouldn't they be releasing those to us? If they wanted us as testers why wait until it's been around for a month or two before leaking it to us? Doesn't make sense. Besides, leaking betas runs the risk of inexperienced users causing all sorts of havoc with their phone and then returning them due to being bricked, calling for support, etc which then costs RIM and others money.

**djm1947** · 03-20-2009, 03:13 PM

I can't believe how many people responded to the initial post. This has all been covered over and over and over again.

**collin16** · 03-20-2009, 03:13 PM

sometimes it's fun to think of rim involved in this big conspiracy... but they aren't.

**Zelmo88** · 03-20-2009, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Six to Midnight

RIM doesn't intentionally leak betas. Otherwise, why wouldn't we get them more often and sooner? We know (thanks to Radio, CX, Sith) that RIM is far ahead in the builds and has some pretty good ones. Why wouldn't they be releasing those to us? If they wanted us as testers why wait until it's been around for a month or two before leaking it to us? Doesn't make sense. Besides, leaking betas runs the risk of inexperienced users causing all sorts of havoc with their phone and then returning them due to being bricked, calling for support, etc which then costs RIM and others money.

I don't think RIM intentionally leaks the Beta's, but they probably figure some of them will eventually get leaked so why not use our feedback to make the next "official" OS better? I'm sure there are some, although I would guess only a few, that brick their phones installing the leaks. However, there are probably just as many or more (me included) who would have returned their phones without the enhanced performance from the leaked OS's. Quite frankly, the .75 OS was awful!!! RIM should give CX, Sith, Radio, BBcrackman, a nice bonus!! Taxed at 90% of course!