[hoopitz]

I just got an e-mail from Bank of America, informing me that, 'coming October' Bank of America customers will be able to use Apply Pay "at over 200,000 stores." I already posted somewhere else how frustrating it is to me that BlackBerry has been toying around with NFC payments for years now, and yet Apple just surpassed BB by miles with their first phone that has NFC capabilities. I'm wondering how it works though. Will the iPhone use the same readers that some of my credit cards already use for tap payments? Or is it going to be a proprietary Apple reader that stores will install? At least if it's the former, it opens the door.

[sk8er_tor]

I assume it will use the same NFC terminals; doesn't make any sense otherwise. I've used my BlackBerry (linked to a Canadian credit card) in the U.S. to pay at NFC terminals and it works just fine.

[Rodney Wilder]

There seems to be conflicting info out there currently. Some say it's a proprietary Apple reader, though most say that they existing nfc functionality of terminal (if available) simply needs to be enabled and merchant account signed up to support apple pay. I do truly hope it's the latter option, as proprietary termial would just be stupid, even for apple.

BB has had NFC wallet payment services in indionesia and a few other places I believe for a couple of years. They are part of and are the backbone of certain NFC payment consortium here in north america as well. Issue has been even with tap to pay credit cards, people just don't use it much. So many retailers have the terminals and simply turned the functionality off. Best Buy is a great example, Shell gas stations are another as most won't let you tap to pay in store anymore. Hell, the one time I did tap to pay in a shell, they made me sign the receipt as if it was a card swipe.

I use tap to pay at Tim Hortons from my BB10 using their app since it was made available. Half the time staff are just as confused and amazed that I can do this as other customers are. It's quite sad really. When I do talk to people about tap to pay in general, nevermind using your phone, they state basically security should someone steal their card and go on a shopping spree.

Other issue with tap to pay is the amount you can pay with it is limited to generally either $50, or at some places as high as $100. I don't think Apple is allowing higher than that themselves though don't quote me as I haven't actually looked into it. Considering filling up a tank of gas is usually more than $50, and any decent shopping spree is going to be over $100, tap to pay simply isn't an option for most people currently. Great for small quick purchases in a hurry, not so good for groceries.

[LoganSix]

I already sent a comment to USAA that they should provided NFC payment for BlackBerry. I mean, it's not like they don't have a bunch of government employees with BlackBerry's as their customers or anything.

Posted from my Z30 using CB10

[m1a1mg]

I already sent a comment to USAA that they should provided NFC payment for BlackBerry. I mean, it's not like they don't have a bunch of government employees with BlackBerry's as their customers or anything.

Posted from my Z30 using CB10

I'm completely retired now, but I never put an app on a government issued BB. IT was strictly forbidden.

[hoopitz]

There seems to be conflicting info out there currently. Some say it's a proprietary Apple reader, though most say that they existing nfc functionality of terminal (if available) simply needs to be enabled and merchant account signed up to support apple pay. I do truly hope it's the latter option, as proprietary termial would just be stupid, even for apple.

BB has had NFC wallet payment services in indionesia and a few other places I believe for a couple of years. They are part of and are the backbone of certain NFC payment consortium here in north america as well. Issue has been even with tap to pay credit cards, people just don't use it much. So many retailers have the terminals and simply turned the functionality off. Best Buy is a great example, Shell gas stations are another as most won't let you tap to pay in store anymore. Hell, the one time I did tap to pay in a shell, they made me sign the receipt as if it was a card swipe.

...

When my credit card company sent me a new Visa that had the 'tap to pay' feature, I remember being pretty excited to use it, but then let down with how few retailers accepted it - it became more of a useless gimmick. If I was already opening up my wallet to pull out my credit card, it wasn't saving me much time by tapping instead of swiping, especially if I was still waiting for a receipt.

Although, with phones, I think there is more of an allure, and definitely more uses. The allure being, it's just plain cool and "futuristic" to tap your phone to pay for things, and the uses are plenty. People who don't have credit cards can link it straight to their bank account - I've often forgotten my wallet, but RARELY my phone - vendors can implement it in different ways (vending machines, etc...) ...

I know that BlackBerry and Google have been doing NFC payments long before Apple, but in all reality, Apple brought it mainstream and have definitely gotten the right banks on board. Hopefully BlackBerry will be able to take advantage of this - they already have the technology, and now just to continue making the right partners.

[southlander]

Advice. Carry a credit/debit card with you just in case. Don't expect every retailer to have NFC payment terminals in the US (assuming you are in US). Not just yet. 200,000 sounds like a lot until you think about how many that leaves out.

[app_Developer]

Advice. Carry a credit/debit card with you just in case. Don't expect every retailer to have NFC payment terminals in the US (assuming you are in US). Not just yet. 200,000 sounds like a lot until you think about how many that leaves out.

Yes, and those 200,000 are heavily concentrated in high volume metro and suburban areas.

[LoganSix]

I'm completely retired now, but I never put an app on a government issued BB. IT was strictly forbidden.

True.
But, maybe with BES 10 and BlackBerry 10 ability to split work from personal, it isn't as big of a deal now. Also, with the purchase of SecureCard and the virtual SIM company, it might be even more than possible to have a personal device as a government device.

Then on the other side, members who liked their work BlackBerry, might have gotten a personal BlackBerry.

Posted from my Z30 using CB10

[southlander]

Yes, and those 200,000 are heavily concentrated in high volume metro and suburban areas.

Not to mention the tendency of marketers to use words in vague ways. 200k stores. Is that individual locations that have it? Or is it companies, meaning there are actually more locations. And how many actively have it now since the count was taken. There were some cases of US retailers installing NFC years ago and then ripping it out due to the cost of replacing the terminals being too high. With relatively little use of it by their customer base they went back to stripe reader only terminals. Keep in mind terminals take a lot of abuse and break. They are pricey items. And some are fragile to begin with and often need to be replaced too often. Ingenico En Touch 1000/6550, etc. were utter crap in terms of durability. A large retailer like say Sam's Club would need lots of spares in the back just to keep all the POS lanes up and running. So they tend to use the hardware with the best value and avoid anything with un-used bells and whistles.

[hoopitz]

Not to mention the tendency of marketers to use words in vague ways. 200k stores. Is that individual locations that have it? Or is it companies, meaning there are actually more locations. And how many actively have it now since the count was taken. There were some cases of US retailers installing NFC years ago and then ripping it out due to the cost of replacing the terminals being too high. With relatively little use of it by their customer base they went back to stripe reader only terminals. Keep in mind terminals take a lot of abuse and break. They are pricey items. And some are fragile to begin with and often need to be replaced too often. Ingenico En Touch 1000/6550, etc. were utter crap in terms of durability. A large retailer like say Sam's Club would need lots of spares in the back just to keep all the POS lanes up and running. So they tend to use the hardware with the best value and avoid anything with un-used bells and whistles.

I think it's safe to say that if Apple is doing it, people will hop on the bandwagon. I agree that 200k isn't very much, but it still has everyone talking, and that 200k will quickly climb. Getting major US banks on board is not an easy thing to do, but Apple did it, and it's a big deal. I haven't quite figured out how exactly the payments are being processed (maybe someone can shed light on this), whether it is through the banks directly or not, but at the end of the day, if it's something people want - NFC payments using your phone - and it's a lower cost to companies - lower processing fees (speculation) - then it's a win-win for everyone and we'll see a lot more than 200k vendors offering this soon.

Again, hopefully this will just lay the groundwork for BlackBerry to make the relationships with the banks, and have the infrastructure already in place.

[LoganSix]

NFC payments using your phone - and it's a lower cost to companies - lower processing fees (speculation) - t

Banks just charge those fees because they can. It doesn't cost $1.00 to $3.00 to process an ATM transaction at another bank or do any other electronic transaction. They are charging you for the convenience. It costs more for them to process a paper check, but they don't charge you for that.

Posted from my Z30 using CB10

[Rodney Wilder]

Yes, and those 200,000 are heavily concentrated in high volume metro and suburban areas.

Most are likely McDonald's and subway locations I'd bet. Definitely the type of locations where small quick transactions are common

Also to note with current tap pay supporting retailers, some support tap only with debit but not visa, it's very hit and miss.
Rogers has an nfc wallet, I believe they had a monthly fee as well as a per transaction fee.

Posted via CB, secret level Z30

[hoopitz]

Banks just charge those fees because they can. It doesn't cost $1.00 to $3.00 to process an ATM transaction at another bank or do any other electronic transaction. They are charging you for the convenience. It costs more for them to process a paper check, but they don't charge you for that.

Posted from my Z30 using CB10

Yeah, I understand how that works. What I'm saying is, since every time I swipe my Visa somewhere, it costs them somewhere in the range of a 2-4% merchant processing fee, if instead, it only costs them 1% (with Apple Pay), they'll be likely to encourage NFC payments. I did a minute of digging, and it looks like that is exactly what they plan on doing. Below is from the New York Times.

The immediate cost of Apple Pay is expected to be assumed by the banks, which are offering Apple a lower rate than they normally accept from credit card transactions, according to people briefed on the agreements. The banks, which take the biggest chunk of credit card transaction fees, are hopeful that they will make up for the lower rates by processing new types of transactions that are currently being done with cash or other payment methods.