[Timbosaurus]

The real (and seldom talked about) fight that BlackBerry has on it's hands isn't with iOS or Android, but with WP. Neither has a short-to-medium term chance of getting to number one, but both have a good shot at number three.

I see WP winning this, and soon. I actually see Windows Phone even getting to number one eventually. Here's why: consider how Android got the top spot. It wasn't used by manufacturers because of consumer demand, it was put on because it was free and Google pushed it hard. Once enough manufacturers were using it, it became hegemonic. It's growth was led by supply rather than demand. Since then, Microsoft has started (rightly or wrongly) plying royalty payments out of the majority of Android device makers, and has most recently made it's own OS completely free.

That makes WP the cheapest mainstream OS for a phone manufacturer to use. It is also slowly building up a decent ecosystem, and with the first universal apps now a reality, the appeal of cross-platform application purchases will grow as compatible titles start to appear.

What does this mean for BlackBerry? I think this means Chen has made the right choices so far, by focusing hard on enterprise and services. BlackBerry's success in the consumer market was only ever a flash in the pan, led almost entirely by the unique abilities of BBM. The monopoly on inter-device IM no longer exists. Mega-companies with vested interests are going to continue to outfight and outspend BlackBerry in pursuit of the consumer market, and as long as they can leverage consumers use of their services, they will continue to keep the consumer segment running at wafer-thin margins. This is not a well that BlackBerry should be trying to drink from.

[Q10Bold]

Yeah, I think youre right!

[systemvolker]

What about apple?

Posted via CB10

[Andrew4life]

You never see IBM in the consumer market. Yet they do extremely well.
BlackBerry is trying to exactly that.
If they can carve out an niche, they don't need to be #3 in the consumer smartphone industry. Instead, they'll be #1 of the enterprise/corporate world.

Posted via CB10

[early2bed]

In a recent publicly released memo, the CEO of Microsoft re-branded his company - Microsoft is "the productivity and platform company for the mobile-first and cloud-first world."

[Playbook007]

Yes, but Windows 8 is just brutal. XP was their best version to date, and since then it's been on the decline. Vista, Windows 7 were not as robust. Now 8 is lost somewhere between an app dependent world, and the old Windows 7. MS is huge in the business world, and Windows 8 is a huge let down. I can't and won't consider a windows phone until MS stops this childish interface. The commercial says it all. Little girl paints picture and shows daddy while he should be working at work. That's their focus.

Posted via CB10

[Banco]

I don't see any particular pressing reason why Windows Phone should do better than Blackberry do. I really don't. Nothing especially wrong with their devices, but nothing amazing about them either. Blackberry won't live or die by what Microsoft do, it'll be on their own merits or otherwise.

[DaDaDogg]

I think Microsoft is losing way more money on its Phone OS then anything BlackBerry has ever come close to. They will kill WP like they did Windows Mobile.
BlackBerry will never be No.1( in Consumers Phones) again and don't want to or have to be.

[early2bed]

I don't see any particular pressing reason why Windows Phone should do better than Blackberry do

Except that Windows has an ecosystem like Apple and Google. With those three tech giants I think we know what three surviving dominant mobile platforms will be. People may debate about whether there is room for two or three but nobody thinks four.

[Banco]

Except that Windows has an ecosystem like Apple and Google. With those three tech giants I think we know what three surviving dominant mobile platforms will be. People may debate about whether there is room for two or three but nobody thinks four.

Ecosystem is over-stated a lot of the time. Apple and Google have managed it perfectly, but Windows Phones haven't especially. The danger is in over-estimating how most users use their phones. Not many care about the kinds of things the posters on sites like this do. If I were to do a survey of people I know, "ecosystem" amounts to apps and maybe music (iTunes) and that's about it.

[Tre Lawrence]

Ecosystem is over-stated a lot of the time. Apple and Google have managed it perfectly, but Windows Phones haven't especially. The danger is in over-estimating how most users use their phones. Not many care about the kinds of things the posters on sites like this do. If I were to do a survey of people I know, "ecosystem" amounts to apps and maybe music (iTunes) and that's about it.

I tend to think ecosystem is the big separator.

[Banco]

I tend to think ecosystem is the big separator.

It might be for you. It might be for a lot of people here. It really won't be for most people. They couldn't be less interested in techy stuff that associates across multiple platforms - except for something like apps or purchases, which is where Google and Apple have done well, by tying people in. The rest of it is flim-flam to the bulk of users who barely do more than send a text or play a game.

It is always a mistake to assume power-users are the norm.

[early2bed]

The danger is in over-estimating how most users use their phones. Not many care about the kinds of things the posters on sites like this do. If I were to do a survey of people I know, "ecosystem" amounts to apps and maybe music (iTunes) and that's about it.

Danger, danger - you are adding too many features people don't need! LOL

Maps, home automation, social networking, language recognition, internet of things, professional, car infotainment, tablets, etc. aren't just used by power-users. Hasn't the entire PC business slowed down because of what people do on their mobile devices? "People don't really need all those things" is not a good strategy at this point.

Think about where Blackberry would be today if they had taken the mobile ecosystem concept more seriously.

[lynxs_claw]

So when 10.3 lands with the latest Android Runtime and BB is connected to the Amazon App Store.. we should see a big jump to BlackBerry. Just need to get the word out when it happens

[Banco]

Danger, danger - you are adding too many features people don't need! LOL

Maps, home automation, social networking, language recognition, internet of things, professional, etc. Hasn't the entire PC business slowed down because of what people do on their mobile devices? "People don't really need all those things" is not a good strategy at this point. Think about where Blackberry would be today if they had taken the mobile ecosystem concept more seriously.

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said any such thing.

[stevobbm]

It's not all about taking over the world, BlackBerry has its niche and are working on it further.

[dolco]

Ecosystem is over-stated a lot of the time. Apple and Google have managed it perfectly, but Windows Phones haven't especially. The danger is in over-estimating how most users use their phones. Not many care about the kinds of things the posters on sites like this do. If I were to do a survey of people I know, "ecosystem" amounts to apps and maybe music (iTunes) and that's about it.

WP is just part of MS ecosystem. MS has in fact biggest ecosystem. MS ecosystem counting cloud (outlook.com, onedrive, azure, office 365...), servers ( windows servers, SBS server, SQL servers, exchange, IIS servers...), computers (windows ), tablets (windows 8 and windows RT), Smartphones (WP) office productive tools (MS office, lync,...) and services (Bing, xbox music, Skype, Maps,...), entertainment (XBox). And I am sure that I forgot some parts of MS ecosystem. I am really very content user of MS ecosystem where each part works together with other part.

[Tre Lawrence]

Danger, danger - you are adding too many features people don't need! LOL

Maps, home automation, social networking, language recognition, internet of things, professional, car infotainment, tablets, etc. aren't just used by power-users. Hasn't the entire PC business slowed down because of what people do on their mobile devices? "People don't really need all those things" is not a good strategy at this point.

Think about where Blackberry would be today if they had taken the mobile ecosystem concept more seriously.

I completely agree.

I think that moment of indecision around 2007 cost BBRY dearly. Now, it is playing catchup while the others can afford to take major steps forward.

[Banco]

WP is just part of MS ecosystem. MS has in fact biggest ecosystem. MS ecosystem counting cloud (outlook.com, onedrive, azure, office 365...), servers ( windows servers, SBS server, SQL servers, exchange, IIS servers...), computers (windows ), tablets (windows 8 and windows RT), Smartphones (WP) office productive tools (MS office, lync,...) and services (Bing, xbox music, Skype, Maps,...). And I am sure that I forgot some parts of MS ecosystem. I am really very content user of MS ecosystem where each part works together with other part.

I'm not criticising that. I am saying that I don't think that's how the vast majority of mobile phone users think.

[keegh]

I toyed around with the Lumia 521 before, while I believe it is one of the best under $100 phone, I personally hate wp8.

Not because of the ecosystem but I just truly hate the tile system, I know I'm not the only one who thinks this. (and they didn't have a file manager until 8.1 I think)

While Windows may grab that #3 spot for the time being, I don't see it holding the spot for long (either BlackBerry or one of the new OS's will take it).

Posted via CB10

[Tre Lawrence]

It might be for you. It might be for a lot of people here. It really won't be for most people. They couldn't be less interested in techy stuff that associates across multiple platforms - except for something like apps or purchases, which is where Google and Apple have done well, by tying people in. The rest of it is flim-flam to the bulk of users who barely do more than send a text or play a game.

It is always a mistake to assume power-users are the norm.

I actually think the power users are the ones who can get by without the good ecosystems. The ones who can do stuff like hunt for apks and such to make their platforms of choice work fire them.

Heck, even sending a text is an ode to ecosystems now. We see what other platforms are doing, rolling texting into iMessage and Hangouts.

I'd say having the better ecosystem is needed to attract the non-power users as well.

[Tre Lawrence]

I toyed around with the Lumia 521 before, while I believe it is one of the best under $100 phone, I personally hate wp8.

Not because of the ecosystem but I just truly hate the tile system, I know I'm not the only one who thinks this. (and they didn't have a file manager until 8.1 I think)

While Windows may grab that #3 spot for the time being, I don't see it holding the spot for long (either BlackBerry or one of the new OS's will take it).

Posted via CB10

I think that WP8's ecosystem is what may tide it over. It had some work to do (the entertainment addict with regards to purchasing content on the go, for one), but you can't put a price on interconnected pieces that work together.

Email. Search. Console. Native apps. Content (sorta LOL). Windows Phone has some good pieces.

Microsoft and Google have the money and time to make things work.

[Banco]

I actually think the power users are the ones who can get by without the good ecosystems. The ones who can do stuff like hunt for apks and such to make their platforms of choice work fire them.

Heck, even sending a text is an ode to ecosystems now. We see what other platforms are doing, rolling texting into iMessage and Hangouts.

I'd say having the better ecosystem is needed to attract the non-power users as well.

Oh it attracts people. But it still doesn't mean that anything beyond a tiny, tiny minority make anything but a fraction of the use of whatever phone they have.

[Tre Lawrence]

Oh it attracts people. But it still doesn't mean that anything beyond a tiny, tiny minority make anything but a fraction of the use of whatever phone they have.

I agree.

[Soulstream]

WP8 is (like BB10) a very good and fluid OS that came just a little too late. But Microsoft has deeper pockets and can play the slow and steady game. Also Microsoft has an ecosystem and is expanding it, BB has a very very bad one (enlarged artificially by Android apps).