[Marloncx]

I believe the U.S market is trying to kill BlackBerry. That is the only reason why I can see such a long delay towards a critical OS upgrade. They much rather US own an IPHONE. The only reason they will release 10.2 will be if the owners are persistent and continues to harass the carriers for the update. It is truly sad what I believe they are trying to do Berry.

Posted via CB10

[m1kr0]

I really sympathise with you guys. It does seem a tad strange that numerous other countries got the update a while ago. Have the updates not been released to the carriers a long time ago already? It feels like months ago but then again I can be wrong. Anybody still running less than at least 10.2 have not experienced their phones yet.

Posted via CB10

[Mozdony]

I think that U.S. carriers simply have little interest in pushing the updates due to low sales figures of the BB10 units. They are likely not putting a lot of resources on testing. Why bother when so few are benefited? My carrier, AT&T, sells mostly Android phones and iPhones, by a wide margin. Therefore, all of their effort is in that area. They are respectful if you call, but they really cannot give you any information about the timing of OS updates. It is sad. One should ignore them and install the latest leak that is available. I am now running 10.2.1.1925 on both my and my wife's Z10's and we love it! When AT&T might push an equivalent update, God only knows.

[geoffsdad]

Might as well install the leak. Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.1925. By the time the US Carriers send out an official update, there will be an even better leak out there. Stay ahead of the game.

Posted Via CB10 via Z10 via BB10

[grover5]

Might as well install the leak. Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.1925. By the time the US Carriers send out an official update, there will be an even better leak out there. Stay ahead of the game.

Posted Via CB10 via Z10 via BB10

I agree. The modern BlackBerry user in the US needs to be resourceful. At least until BlackBerry begins to turn things around. The latest leak is fantastic.

Posted via CB10

[imz]

Firstly, what defines the US "market", people, consumers?

If so, I guess Blackberry is already dead to them, but the company keeps trying to disrupt them with new toys (well supposed to but hasn't really marketed to them properly).

As Blackberry is already dead to them, then I guess it boils down to:

I think that U.S. carriers simply have little interest in pushing the updates due to low sales figures of the BB10 units. They are likely not putting a lot of resources on testing. Why bother when so few are benefited? My carrier, AT&T, sells mostly Android phones and iPhones, by a wide margin. Therefore, all of their effort is in that area.

So unfortunately it's not the USA "trying" to kill Blackberry, nor the carriers, or the NSA, the people have chosen their device, the carriers follow the money trail. Back when no one challenged BB, they had full backing, whereas Android and iOS puts food on the table, and Blackberry is trying to get a slice of that pie after being kicked off the smartphone table.

[redlightblinking]

Firstly, what defines the US "market", people, consumers?

If so, I guess Blackberry is already dead to them, but the company keeps trying to disrupt them with new toys (well supposed to but hasn't really marketed to them properly).

As Blackberry is already dead to them, then I guess it boils down to:



So unfortunately it's not the USA "trying" to kill Blackberry, nor the carriers, or the NSA, the people have chosen their device, the carriers follow the money trail. Back when no one challenged BB, they had full backing, whereas Android and iOS puts food on the table, and Blackberry is trying to get a slice of that pie after being kicked off the smartphone table.

You've perfectly summarized why it's nearly impossible for any phone maker not already in existence to thrive. It's a chicken and egg syndrome.

If BB didn't need the carriers to let their products work better....BB wouldn't have such bad sales which cause the carriers to not push updates which, in turn, cause bad sales. Vicious circle. The only way to stop this is with Anti-trust laws. Carriers treat BB and Apple differently, as BB must get carrier approval, and Apple just sends you device an update via Itunes.

[Calvin Chin]

I personally think that the US is killing off blackberry is because of its best in class security! The NSA could not spy on BlackBerry phones! They are slowly killing it to eliminate the headache of spying... probably...

Posted via CB10

[m1kr0]

Firstly, what defines the US "market", people, consumers?

So unfortunately it's not the USA "trying" to kill Blackberry, nor the carriers, or the NSA, the people have chosen their device, the carriers follow the money trail. Back when no one challenged BB, they had full backing, whereas Android and iOS puts food on the table, and Blackberry is trying to get a slice of that pie after being kicked off the smartphone table.

I fully understand the money part, but there is still a smaller group of BlackBerry people not getting the service they deserve and they remain paying customers in the end.

Posted via CB10

[Saiga]

I personally think that the US is killing off blackberry is because of its best in class security! The NSA could not spy on BlackBerry phones! They are slowly killing it to eliminate the headache of spying... probably...

Posted via CB10

It's a conspiracy!

[MartyMcfly]

I wish people would stop blaming the U.S for Blackberry's failures. The company is struggling in all markets (judging by the sales report).

[TGR1]

You've perfectly summarized why it's nearly impossible for any phone maker not already in existence to thrive. It's a chicken and egg syndrome.

If BB didn't need the carriers to let their products work better....BB wouldn't have such bad sales which cause the carriers to not push updates which, in turn, cause bad sales. Vicious circle.

Agree. Carriers are very powerful and influential in North Ametica.

The only way to stop this is with Anti-trust laws. Carriers treat BB and Apple differently, as BB must get carrier approval, and Apple just sends you device an update via Itunes.

How would antitrust laws be applied here?

[ibpluto]

I wish people would stop blaming the U.S for Blackberry's failures. The company is struggling in all markets (judging by the sales report).

Blame the US for BlackBerry failures?....I agree no. but it's tuff to argue that they aren't exactly doing BlackBerry any favors either.

There is no excusable reason they are so far behind in pushing through the 10.2 update.

If Apple can push through their own OTA updates, BlackBerry should be able to also.

CB10'n it via da Z

[Saiga]

I think the situation is caused by US carriers sucking with updates period and BlackBerry releasing too many updates to frequently. People will bring up the iPhone updates, but how often is the iPhone updated each year?

Whenever a phone is updated multiple times in a year by the maker, the US carriers fall behind and start skipping updates. Look at the Samsung Galaxy Nexus on Sprint and Verizon. Google updated that phone repeatedly in one year and the carriers just couldn't keep up. Verizon was fast to push the first Nexus update, then the second one took them 5 or 6 months to release then they started skipping updates altogether. Other Android devices on Verizon also end up waiting months for updates.

It doesn't seem like unfair treatment to BlackBerry to me, it just seems like how things work in the US. After all, I can't think of any phone on any US carrier that receives four or five updates in one year. If you can, please let me know. BlackBerry should maybe go to less frequent, more important updates. Then maybe the carriers would be able to push them sooner when the time comes.

[Bonnie Bonzai]

If Apple can push through their own OTA updates, BlackBerry should be able to also.
CB10'n it via da Z

I agree - BlackBerry needs to circumvent the carriers who aren't interested in selling the product let alone pass along new updates.

[TGR1]

I believe the U.S market is trying to kill BlackBerry. That is the only reason why I can see such a long delay towards a critical OS upgrade. They much rather US own an IPHONE. The only reason they will release 10.2 will be if the owners are persistent and continues to harass the carriers for the update. It is truly sad what I believe they are trying to do Berry.

Posted via CB10

I wouldn't say the market is actively trying to kill the platform; more that carrier indifference is helping to drive it into decline. I don't think there is any deliberate malice. Just that it doesn't really matter to them. And while customers may really want the OS upgrade for usability it is arguably not a critical upgrade that the carriers would be truly pushed to release; that would typically entail major bugs for security or network issues. Note I am not agreeing with the carriers as I think it is reprehensible how they dawdle with some rather sketchy reasoning; it's one reason I abandoned the Android platform. But it is behavior they got away with forever on dumb phones and featurephones.

IMO, carriers would also prefer if someone came along to put more pressure on the iPhone. They lost their absolute power with Apple and they don't like it.

[Saiga]

If Apple can push through their own OTA updates, BlackBerry should be able to also.

CB10'n it via da Z

Apple's updates are tested by the carriers. It is a myth that Apple circumvents the carriers. I know people at Verizon who test iOS updates. The notion that iPhone updates aren't tested and approved is just silly. They are.

The difference is Apple handles their updates well. They give them to the carriers and make all carriers wait until all carriers are ready to release it. That way there aren't people waiting while others have the update.

[raino]

I think the situation is caused by US carriers sucking with updates period and BlackBerry releasing too many updates to frequently. People will bring up the iPhone updates, but how often is the iPhone updated each year?

Whenever a phone is updated multiple times in a year by the maker, the US carriers fall behind and start skipping updates. Look at the Samsung Galaxy Nexus on Sprint and Verizon. Google updated that phone repeatedly in one year and the carriers just couldn't keep up. Verizon was fast to push the first Nexus update, then the second one took them 5 or 6 months to release then they started skipping updates altogether. Other Android devices on Verizon also end up waiting months for updates.

It doesn't seem like unfair treatment to BlackBerry to me, it just seems like how things work in the US. After all, I can't think of any phone on any US carrier that receives four or five updates in one year. If you can, please let me know. BlackBerry should maybe go to less frequent, more important updates. Then maybe the carriers would be able to push them sooner when the time comes.

Makes me wonder...do we have any evidence of a carrier getting pissy and refusing to sell devices because anyone but Apple tried to push OS updates out manually? The decision to not sell Nexus phones on Verizon anymore was not Verizon's, right?

I'm just wondering what would happen if BB decides to push updates out manually (except maybe to Verizon customers, since Verizon seems the most inclined to support BB at this point.) What would they have to lose, in reality? They tout their partnerships with carriers, but we know how it is at the salesperson levels.

[raino]

Apple's updates are tested by the carriers. It is a myth that Apple circumvents the carriers. I know people at Verizon who test iOS updates. The notion that iPhone updates aren't tested and approved is just silly. They are.

The difference is Apple handles their updates well. They give them to the carriers and make all carriers wait until all carriers are ready to release it. That way there aren't people waiting while others have the update.

They might test it, but are you sure they control the release, and it's not Apple saying "well...too bad you don't want it released. We're going to anyway?" This suggests that's how it is.

[Saiga]

Makes me wonder...do we have any evidence of a carrier getting pissy and refusing to sell devices because anyone but Apple tried to push OS updates out manually? The decision to not sell Nexus phones on Verizon anymore was not Verizon's, right?

I'm just wondering what would happen if BB decides to push updates out manually (except maybe to Verizon customers, since Verizon seems the most inclined to support BB at this point.) What would they have to lose, in reality? They tout their partnerships with carriers, but we know how it is at the salesperson levels.

I don't know for certain, but I honestly think that neither Verizon nor Google wanted there to be another Nexus on VZW. It isn't like Nexus devices set sale records and I'm sure Verizon doesn't want to do that many updates per year for a device with relatively few users.

I also heard that someone at Google in charge of the Nexus program said that the experience they want to provide isn't possible on Verizon. Which it isn't, the Pnex (as I like to call it) came with a modified version of Android on top of the whole update problem that plagued it. Verizon is incapable of offering a truly vanilla Android smartphone.

Sprint didn't handle the Nexus device much better, so I was a little surprised when they got the Nexus 5.

[bp3dots]

You've perfectly summarized why it's nearly impossible for any phone maker not already in existence to thrive. It's a chicken and egg syndrome.

If BB didn't need the carriers to let their products work better....BB wouldn't have such bad sales which cause the carriers to not push updates which, in turn, cause bad sales. Vicious circle. The only way to stop this is with Anti-trust laws. Carriers treat BB and Apple differently, as BB must get carrier approval, and Apple just sends you device an update via Itunes.

I don't think the carriers made BB launch the new OS before their most needed features were baked in, and before properly clearing issues like the rebooting one. If they'd gotten BB10 right out of the gate, maybe they wouldn't need major updates so early to keep them close to competeitve with features other OS's have.

There's no anti-trust issues here. Apple negotiated in their contracts that they would be the ones to push updates. This is one of the reasons Verizon passed on the original launch of the iPhone, and ATT got lucky by taking a chance on it. The thing is, Apple carries the consumer demand that makes it worth carriers giving up control they would normally have. BB has no such demand. If they were to come to the table with demands like that, any company could easily tell them to kick rocks. Not to mention, if this was an anti-BB thing, Android phones would be getting the same treatment as Apple, right? But even the mighty Samsung has to wait on their updates to roll out.

It's time for people to stop blaming everyone else for BB's mistakes.

[jdk2]

The carriers here in the US don't regularly update Android phones after the first few months. The LG E-980 is still on Android 4.1.2. Flagship to the carriers doesn't seem to mean the same as it does to the manufacturers.

It appears to be a ploy to convince consumers to buy the latest phones to keep up with technology.

[EvilmasterMMA]

It is not the U.S market. It is the U.S military industrial complex that is the entity trying to kill blackberry. If you are operating a blackberry device, through a properly secured blackberry enterprise server, the NSA can not spy on you in real time the way that they want to.

So, the main stream media, which is a component of the United States military industrial complex. Is working hard to destroy the company with main stream propaganda. With American investor banks, who work closely with the federal reserve system, responsible for driving the stock down.

They will fail. Blackberry isn't going anywhere.

[bp3dots]

Makes me wonder...do we have any evidence of a carrier getting pissy and refusing to sell devices because anyone but Apple tried to push OS updates out manually? The decision to not sell Nexus phones on Verizon anymore was not Verizon's, right?

I'm just wondering what would happen if BB decides to push updates out manually (except maybe to Verizon customers, since Verizon seems the most inclined to support BB at this point.) What would they have to lose, in reality? They tout their partnerships with carriers, but we know how it is at the salesperson levels.

They would likely find themselves in breach of contract, which would probably result in substantial fines/lawsuits, and possibly the loss of business with a carrier.

[Saiga]

They might test it, but are you sure they control the release, and it's not Apple saying "well...too bad you don't want it released. We're going to anyway?" This suggests that's how it is.

Oh yeah they control it. Like I said, they wouldn't let one carrier release the update weeks before another one did. Apple has a lot of control over the updates, but they don't circumvent the carriers and testing like some think they do.

Google does push the updates for the real Nexus without any carrier involvement., but real Nexus smartphones come directly from Google and are unlocked. So that's the big difference.

BlackBerry could do this if they wanted, but they don't. The people here who think this is all the carriers fault should take a look at the shiny red Limited Edition Z10. That phone was factory unlocked and only available directly from BlackBerry. No carrier involvement with that device at all. It is the closest thing to a Nexus like smartphone BlackBerry has, yet BlackBerry has never once pushed a single OTA update to it.

Don't they also sell unlocked BlackBerry phones on their website? Why don't they push OTA updates to those devices? The carriers can't stop them, but they still don't do it.