[snaqvi91]

@CNET: BlackBerry halves Z10 and Q10 production http://t.co/nfvVfsKj9o

[triplekia]

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/blac...tion-50011740/

Well, that was to be expected.

Posted via CB10

[Caymancroc]

Wish I could say it is surprising but after my two weeks with the Q10 I see why.

Missing too many key features and is not ready for prime time. Sad really because I am still wanting Blackberry to do well but the company is too disorganized and is led by incompetent management.

[Marauder2]

If I'm not mistaken they had to up production after initial demand, so halving the increased production brings it back to predicted/normal production essentially?



Posted via CB10

[matthewgreyling]

Old news? (ie, a few days)

Posted via CB10

[snaqvi91]

If I'm not mistaken they had to up production after initial demand, so halving the increased production brings it back to predicted/normal production essentially?
Posted via CB10

Did they have to double production? If so then this halving of production would bring it back to normal. If they increased production by less than double then this halving has overall brought down production.

[greyw0lf01]

If I'm not mistaken they had to up production after initial demand, so halving the increased production brings it back to predicted/normal production essentially?

Which means that management doesn't know what demand is, really. This isn't the first phone they are launching.

Posted via CB10

[snaqvi91]

Old news? (ie, a few days)

Posted via CB10

Actually the date on the website linked is July 17th. Regardless I didn't notice it anywhere on CB so thought I would post it and see what people think.

[Marauder2]

Did they have to double production? If so then this halving of production would bring it back to normal. If they increased production by less than double then this halving has overall brought down production.

Yes I am aware of that. I just think it's important to note that because some may just see the article and think "wow BlackBerry musnt be doing well if they are slowing production" when they actually aren't far off original estimates

*these are just my assumptions, I could be 100% incorrect

Posted via CB10

[njblackberry]

Actually the date on the website linked is July 17th. Regardless I didn't notice it anywhere on CB so thought I would post it and see what people think.

http://forums.crackberry.com/news-ru...-misek-828784/

[madman0141]

If I'm not mistaken they had to up production after initial demand, so halving the increased production brings it back to predicted/normal production essentially?


Essentially it sounds like you work for BlackBerry by looking at it this way.
Posted via CB10

[agp101]

Blackberry sold less than 1M bb10 phones per month last quarter. This setback isn't to make up for the "double production" which makes it now "normal production". No, it's because bb10 is selling less than 1M o'er month, so they're producing accordingly for the extremely subpar demand. Bb is clearly toast.

[RubberChicken76]

Wish I could say it is surprising but after my two weeks with the Q10 I see why.

Missing too many key features and is not ready for prime time.

Such as?

So many sweeping, yet shallow statements on forums.

[RubberChicken76]

No, it's because bb10 is selling less than 1M o'er month, so they're producing accordingly for the extremely subpar demand. Bb is clearly toast.

But what criteria? Your personal opinion?

As I've said before, when they were allegedly "king of the world" at the time of the iPhone launch in 2007, they had a grand total of 8 million users. 8 Million! That's it. The stock was roaring, they were the darling of the tech industry.

Now they're running at more or less a million a month and they're toast?

People seem to think that there's nothing RIM can do to downsize, upsize, focus etc to keep the company going. "if they don't outsell Apple or Google, they're dead" apparently.

[agp101]

But what criteria? Your personal opinion?

As I've said before, when they were allegedly "king of the world" at the time of the iPhone launch in 2007, they had a grand total of 8 million users. 8 Million! That's it. The stock was roaring, they were the darling of the tech industry.

Now they're running at more or less a million a month and they're toast?

People seem to think that there's nothing RIM can do to downsize, upsize, focus etc to keep the company going. "if they don't outsell Apple or Google, they're dead" apparently.

Take your blinding glasses off please. They made a loss last quarter and guided for another loss in the next quarter. And have actually said that we "might" not see a profitable quarter for at least a couple more. And that's if they manage to sell more phones. What you didn't mention is how they lost another 4M subscribers last quarter. And with bb10 sales only falling shorter, please don't expect that subscriber number to rise. LESS THAN 1M phones a month is not enough. You realize that windows phones beats the heck out of that number per month? You realize how sad that is?

As to your last paragraph, I didn't say I expected them to sell more than Google or Apple. But thanks for not mentioning windows phone. I took the courtesy of mentioning them for you, and to remind you that they overtook 3rd place to take BBRY down to 4th. WINDOWS PHONE = SAD.

This is not even personal opinion. This is just fact. As I said, take off your blinding glasses and make a more substantial argument, if you can.

Sent from CB forums app with... (you can't handle this, it's not a bb)

[RubberChicken76]

Take your blinding glasses off please

LOL - don't be ridiculous. That's another thing I don't get about this forum. If someone has a problem, the fanboys yell, "TROLL!". If someone doesn't see the sky as collapsing, the haters yell, "Take Off Your Rose Coloured Glasses, Fanboy!!!"

Again, I own multiple devices from multiple vendors and I use all of them daily.

[QUOTE]They made a loss last quarter[/QUOTE

They made a loss of $84 million on revenue of over $ 3 billion dollars. By most standards, that's 'near breakeven" territory. Not a good trend, but this is not the same thing as - say - a $1.5 billion dollar loss, that ate up all their cash, caused them to take on billions in debt to keep the doors open etc.

What you didn't mention is how they lost another 4M subscribers last quarter.

Because it wasn't relevant to what I was saying. It's relevant if BlackBerry stays the same size, and losses continue to grow and all sorts of other things happen. It doesn't mean that BlackBerry can't further downsize, focus on specific niches, be bought, merge etc. etc. etc.

You realize that windows phones beats the heck out of that number per month? You realize how sad that is?

With multiple manufacturers and one of the biggest companies on the planet pushing Windows Phone yet struggling to sell volume? I think they have their own concerns.

[gohan_bcc]

[QUOTE=RubberChicken76;8840278]LOL - don't be ridiculous. That's another thing I don't get about this forum. If someone has a problem, the fanboys yell, "TROLL!". If someone doesn't see the sky as collapsing, the haters yell, "Take Off Your Rose Coloured Glasses, Fanboy!!!"

Again, I own multiple devices from multiple vendors and I use all of them daily.

They made a loss last quarter[/QUOTE

They made a loss of $84 million on revenue of over $ 3 billion dollars. By most standards, that's 'near breakeven" territory. Not a good trend, but this is not the same thing as - say - a $1.5 billion dollar loss, that ate up all their cash, caused them to take on billions in debt to keep the doors open etc.



Because it wasn't relevant to what I was saying. It's relevant if BlackBerry stays the same size, and losses continue to grow and all sorts of other things happen. It doesn't mean that BlackBerry can't further downsize, focus on specific niches, be bought, merge etc. etc. etc.



With multiple manufacturers and one of the biggest companies on the planet pushing Windows Phone yet struggling to sell volume? I think they have their own concerns.

I'm sorry but I agree iwth the poster above. No matter what picture you paint, BlackBerry 10 is wildly unsuccesful. Nuff said at that.

There is about 100x room for improvement so who knows where it goes from here.

[RubberChicken76]

I'm sorry but I agree iwth the poster above. No matter what picture you paint, BlackBerry 10 is wildly unsuccesful. Nuff said at that.

The issue I have is the "they are doomed" thinking. Again:

When the iPhone came out, and everyone thought RIM was the belle of the ball, they were a much smaller company with much smaller userbase in a much smaller market ... and everyone thought they were the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Now, with a much larger user base, a much higher run rate than they had then, they are "dying". I'm not saying, "they are in line to take over the universe". Nor am I saying "BlackBerry 10 is a resounding, company saving success at its current trajectory". I'm saying it's a bit melodramatic to say they are "doomed".

I'd be more convinced of that if the userbase had fallen by 50 million users, if they had just bled a billion in red ink and all the bills were past due because the company had maxed out their credit.

I think they have a bit of time to try and right the ship still. My gut is that Thorsten is readying the company for sale.

There's a quote I remember from the engadget podcast when BlackBerry 10 came out that I thought described the situation. It went something like,

"RIM is not out of the woods, nor is there really anything here that will cause Android and iPhone users to flock to BlackBerry 10 or return them to the number 1 spot. But what this does do is at least buy them some time."

What would have happened, for example, if BlackBerry decided to release Bold 9950 and Torch 9890 devices instead the Z10 and Q10? What would the numbers be like? What would the losses be like? Would would the customer sentiment be like?

My gut says they'd be dead. My gut also says that the BlackBerry 10 lineup is doing well enough that they'll live to enough to get BlackBerry 11 to market and/or be bought by a bigger company

[agp101]

The issue I have is the "they are doomed" thinking. Again:

When the iPhone came out, and everyone thought RIM was the belle of the ball, they were a much smaller company with much smaller userbase in a much smaller market ... and everyone thought they were the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Now, with a much larger user base, a much higher run rate than they had then, they are "dying". I'm not saying, "they are in line to take over the universe". Nor am I saying "BlackBerry 10 is a resounding, company saving success at its current trajectory". I'm saying it's a bit melodramatic to say they are "doomed".

I'd be more convinced of that if the userbase had fallen by 50 million users, if they had just bled a billion in red ink and all the bills were past due because the company had maxed out their credit.

I think they have a bit of time to try and right the ship still. My gut is that Thorsten is readying the company for sale.

There's a quote I remember from the engadget podcast when BlackBerry 10 came out that I thought described the situation. It went something like,

"RIM is not out of the woods, nor is there really anything here that will cause Android and iPhone users to flock to BlackBerry 10 or return them to the number 1 spot. But what this does do is at least buy them some time that they didn't have before".

But again, the upside you see is that the company gets smaller or downsizes, or gets sold, etc etc. Which are all fine scenarios, but neither have success written on them. There just not successful. They're alive, but that's about it. I wish they were successful. If they are again one day, I will buy another bb10 device (or bb11). But right now they're not, and so that's why I left bb10. My dream phone is the ultimate bb with a desirable ecosystem. For me though that's just not happening, and it doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon.

Sent from CB forums app with... (you can't handle this, it's not a bb)

[RubberChicken76]

Which are all fine scenarios, but neither have success written on them.

I guess our measure of success if different then. I view it quite simply: If a company is able to do well enough that they can continue making products that I like, they succeed. If they aren't able to do well enough to keep making products I like, they don't succeed." For me, it's not about usurping Apple or Android. It's about selling enough BlackBerry's to be able to make Blackberry 11, 12 etc.

Here's a game console example:

I loved Sega consoles. I loved the Master System. I loved the Genesis. I loved the Dreamcast. But Sega didn't do well enough to be able to keep going in this business and jettisoned it.

If BlackBerry suddenly has to do a massive dump of 95% of its employees so it can only do MDM and BBM, that would suck. But I'm not worried about them vanishing from the device front tomorrow.

[phuoc]

Variety is important. Android,iphone,microsoft,BB--4 different systems, something for everyone. All will survive, I hope.

[avidberry]

8 million users out of??? You do realize that current smartphone market is way bigger than it used to be in 2007, right?

Food for thought: What we may will never know is how many people, from the existing BB user base, have more than one device in their hands which is not another BB and the only thing that keep them going with BB is the BBM. The next 2-3 months after the launching of BBM for iOS and Android is surely interesting to observe and I'm afraid we're not going to hear good news for the BB that we know and love at the moment.

But what criteria? Your personal opinion?

As I've said before, when they were allegedly "king of the world" at the time of the iPhone launch in 2007, they had a grand total of 8 million users. 8 Million! That's it. The stock was roaring, they were the darling of the tech industry.

Now they're running at more or less a million a month and they're toast?

People seem to think that there's nothing RIM can do to downsize, upsize, focus etc to keep the company going. "if they don't outsell Apple or Google, they're dead" apparently.

[RubberChicken76]

8 million users out of??? You do realize that current smartphone market is way bigger than it used to be in 2007, right?

For sure. It's actually a pet peeve of mine when someone says, "BlackBerry had 47% of the market at _____ date" but now only has 3% as of _____" and then implies that a huge portion of their customers has vanished with only a couple of global stragglers remaining.

But that's also not the point as I've said above. People get too worked up about assuming 'imminent doom' sometimes.

[bmantz65]

The issue I have is the "they are doomed" thinking. Again:

When the iPhone came out, and everyone thought RIM was the belle of the ball, they were a much smaller company with much smaller userbase in a much smaller market ... and everyone thought they were the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Now, with a much larger user base, a much higher run rate than they had then, they are "dying". I'm not saying, "they are in line to take over the universe". Nor am I saying "BlackBerry 10 is a resounding, company saving success at its current trajectory". I'm saying it's a bit melodramatic to say they are "doomed".

I'd be more convinced of that if the userbase had fallen by 50 million users, if they had just bled a billion in red ink and all the bills were past due because the company had maxed out their credit.

I think they have a bit of time to try and right the ship still. My gut is that Thorsten is readying the company for sale.

There's a quote I remember from the engadget podcast when BlackBerry 10 came out that I thought described the situation. It went something like,

"RIM is not out of the woods, nor is there really anything here that will cause Android and iPhone users to flock to BlackBerry 10 or return them to the number 1 spot. But what this does do is at least buy them some time."

What would have happened, for example, if BlackBerry decided to release Bold 9950 and Torch 9890 devices instead the Z10 and Q10? What would the numbers be like? What would the losses be like? Would would the customer sentiment be like?

My gut says they'd be dead. My gut also says that the BlackBerry 10 lineup is doing well enough that they'll live to enough to get BlackBerry 11 to market and/or be bought by a bigger company

The smartphone market in 2007 was completely different than it is today. What was their competition then before the iPhone debuted? Palm?

People say BB is dying relative to how the market is today, in 2013. Apple and Android phones combine to control 90% of the USA market: Apple, Android combine for almost 90% of U.S. smartphone market - Los Angeles Times

So you look at that % figure, plus sales figures from each platform, and the BBRY stock and it is hard to be positive about this company.

[njblackberry]

Fanboys can find an endless number of excuses and reasons why BlackBerry will not fail.
Just read the last 5 posts..