[richardat]

The globe and mail article links to a fairly length analysis of RIM fundamentals. Nice info all in one place, if one is interested in such things. Advance warning: though there are a few positive notes, it's not overall very flattering or optimistic. There is some suggestion that BB may beat street expectations however.


StockReport+ gives each stock an average score that combines the quantitative analysis of six widely-used investment decision-making tools: earnings, fundamentals, relative valuation, risk, price momentum and insider trading. RIM’s average score is 3 out of 10. Read more in the comprehensive report.

RIM scoreboard: How the BlackBerry maker ranks in key metrics - The Globe and Mail

[Rooster99]

Very interesting, but why is BBRY rated so poorly on Debt (inthe Fundamentals) when it has none?

Sorry, but while I understand financial statements, I'm not even an amateur trader so can someone enlighten me?

TIA - R.

[cjcampbell]

Very interesting, but why is BBRY rated so poorly on Debt (inthe Fundamentals) when it has none?

Sorry, but while I understand financial statements, I'm not even an amateur trader so can someone enlighten me?

TIA - R.

The problem with this one is it is using the past reports and earnings coupled with the fcf and debt load... or lack there of. If I had no idea of what changes were done and where they are going, and I just looked at past statements of loss over the past number of quarters (baring Q4 of course), I might come to the same conclusion. Knowing the changes and believing that the platform and company will be a success, and seeing a profit turned already, I feel that those who heed the past, but realize the work done and vision, will have a very different outlook than this particular report indicates.

[MarsupilamiX]

The problem with this one is it is using the past reports and earnings coupled with the fcf and debt load... or lack there of. If I had no idea of what changes were done and where they are going, and I just looked at past statements of loss over the past number of quarters (baring Q4 of course), I might come to the same conclusion. Knowing the changes and believing that the platform and company will be a success, and seeing a profit turned already, I feel that those who heed the past, but realize the work done and vision, will have a very different outlook than this particular report indicates.

I completely agree with you there!

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[richardat]

Very interesting, but why is BBRY rated so poorly on Debt (inthe Fundamentals) when it has none?

Sorry, but while I understand financial statements, I'm not even an amateur trader so can someone enlighten me?

TIA - R.

Good question. I didn't see enough info to be sure how the final number was derived. I have the feeling that maybe, because of the lack of debt, the only value counted into the final rating was the current ratio - which RIM is not outstanding in. If that were so, I don't think it a fair assessment, but again....need further elaboration!

[Zarpan]

Very interesting, but why is BBRY rated so poorly on Debt (inthe Fundamentals) when it has none?

Sorry, but while I understand financial statements, I'm not even an amateur trader so can someone enlighten me?

TIA - R.

I think that may have been a bug in their formula. I looked at the relevant stats in that section, and the numbers they mention for BlackBerry are all pretty good. Current ratio is solid, no long-term debt, or interest payments. Really should have scored a 10 for debt.

BlackBerry's current ratio is higher than Apple's and Samsung's, so for the industry, BlackBerry is quite solid. Apple's is low since they have a ton of money in longer term investments, but in any case all of those companies are very healthy in terms of what the current ratio is meant to measure.

[richardat]

The problem with this one is it is using the past reports and earnings coupled with the fcf and debt load... or lack there of. If I had no idea of what changes were done and where they are going, and I just looked at past statements of loss over the past number of quarters (baring Q4 of course), I might come to the same conclusion. Knowing the changes and believing that the platform and company will be a success, and seeing a profit turned already, I feel that those who heed the past, but realize the work done and vision, will have a very different outlook than this particular report indicates.

I don't believe - and I think you would agree - this report wasn't meant to editorialize, but simply to present systematic metrics. It is up to each person to make their own final decision - and especially to make predictions on the future based on your feeling about the company's most recent actions.

[Zarpan]

I suppose this might be a better fit for the BBRY subforum though since the average 3 out of 10 number and other discussed metrics were meant to predict how BlackBerry's stock price would fare going forward.

[MarsupilamiX]

I think that may have been a bug in their formula. I looked at the relevant stats in that section, and the numbers they mention for BlackBerry are all pretty good. Current ratio is solid, no long-term debt, or interest payments. Really should have scored a 10 for debt.

BlackBerry's current ratio is higher than Apple's and Samsung's, so for the industry, BlackBerry is quite solid. Apple's is low since they have a ton of money in longer term investments, but in any case all of those companies are very healthy in terms of what the current ratio is meant to measure.

Interesting!

Good question. I didn't see enough info to be sure how the final number was derived. I have the feeling that maybe, because of the lack of debt, the only value counted into the final rating was the current ratio - which RIM is not outstanding in. If that were so, I don't think it a fair assessment, but again....need further elaboration!

Why do you keep naming it RIM?
Also in the title?
Wasn't the rebranding official?


Posted via CB10

[richardat]

I think that may have been a bug in their formula. I looked at the relevant stats in that section, and the numbers they mention for BlackBerry are all pretty good. Current ratio is solid, no long-term debt, or interest payments. Really should have scored a 10 for debt.

BlackBerry's current ratio is higher than Apple's and Samsung's, so for the industry, BlackBerry is quite solid. Apple's is low since they have a ton of money in longer term investments, but in any case all of those companies are very healthy in terms of what the current ratio is meant to measure.

HA! Wrote the same thing at the same time! On the subject of your Apple/Samsung comparison however, while I see your reasoning ie. same industry - I think you'd agree that they arguably are not the best comparisons - scale matters in this case.

If it is a bug, it's rather odd, since one would expect it to occur rather frequently! Perhaps it is a new algorithm, or perhaps the cause is more subtle than the obvious explanation. In any case, glad you could not see a clear accounting for that number either!

Why do you keep naming it RIM?
Also in the title?
Wasn't the rebranding official?

Posted via CB10

My titles - like this one - are straight copies of the article. I used RIM here simply to follow the articles lead - as well as the report. No, I don't believe the rebranding is yet officially completed - which is probably why the report refers to RIM (and I'd guess Globe and Mail is simply following them). It will have to be voted on at the annual general meeting.

If you're referring to anything outside of this thread, I think I almost always use Blackerry when referring to the company currently (I was surprised how fast I adjusted - since I put, and guarantee no effort to do so - I simply don't think it's important! When making references to past actions, I often say "RIM"! Again, though, I make no serious effort to follow that paradigm (though I think I have done so quite consistently), so it may well be possible to catch me using RIM in the future as a current reference! ;-)

[MarsupilamiX]

My titles - like this one - are straight copies of the article. I used RIM here simply to follow the articles lead - as well as the report. No, I don't believe the rebranding is yet officially completed - which is probably why the report refers to RIM (and I'd guess Globe and Mail is simply following them). It will have to be voted on at the annual general meeting.

If you're referring to anything outside of this thread, I think I almost always use Blackerry when referring to the company currently (I was surprised how fast I adjusted - since I put, and guarantee no effort to do so - I simply don't think it's important! When making references to past actions, I often say "RIM"! Again, though, I make no serious effort to follow that paradigm (though I think I have done so quite consistently), so it may well be possible to catch me using RIM in the future as a current reference! ;-)

I just wondered because of articles like:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...rticle7998504/

But after finding this:
http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/01/bla...on-february-4/

You seem to be correct, that the change from RIM to BlackBerry will be voted on, on the 10th of july.

I didn't mean other posts, I just wasn't sure if it was appropriate to call it RIM, and probably thought about RIMM and BBRY.

Posted via CB10

[CharlieHipHop]

Meh. We'll see on Friday.

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[qbnkelt]

Meh. We'll see on Friday.

Posted via CB10

True.
And people should neither dance victory nor scream BlackBerry IS DEAD!!!!! June will not have two full quarters of both devices in order to determine any trends. People should use a bit of restraint to their reactions on the 28th.
Although I know full well it won't happen. Just had to say it


Posted from my amazing Z10 via CB10

[richardat]

True.
And people should neither dance victory nor scream BlackBerry IS DEAD!!!!! June will not have two full quarters of both devices in order to determine any trends. People should use a bit of restraint to their reactions on the 28th.
Although I know full well it won't happen. Just had to say it


Posted from my amazing Z10 via CB10

I doubt very much we will see any big surprises anyways! I think the analysts/forum are fairly dialed in....so it's probably just a matter of fluctuation within that range. Will be interesting to see how os7 sales went.....could be some other tidbits of interest, but....

....and of course....immediate market reactions should not be conflated with long-term outlook - though, they always are around here! :-)

[MarsupilamiX]

True.
And people should neither dance victory nor scream BlackBerry IS DEAD!!!!! June will not have two full quarters of both devices in order to determine any trends. People should use a bit of restraint to their reactions on the 28th.
Although I know full well it won't happen. Just had to say it


Posted from my amazing Z10 via CB10

Correct

Especially with the Q5 in the mid-range, not being included at all and the Q10 not having launched globally.

Posted via CB10

[jr4941]

It drives me nuts that the Globe can't stop calling them RIM. They're BlackBerry for @%%'s sakes!

Posted via CB10

[hootyhoo]

It drives me nuts that the Globe can't stop calling them RIM. They're BlackBerry for @%%'s sakes!

Posted via CB10

Not yet. It isn't official until the vote.

[qbnkelt]

Not yet. It isn't official until the vote.

YOU'RE BACK!!!!!

Where the H3LL have you been?????

Posted from my amazing Z10 via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

YOU'RE BACK!!!!!

Where the H3LL have you been?????

Posted from my amazing Z10 via CB10

HELL HELL HELL

I doubt very much we will see any big surprises anyways! I think the analysts/forum are fairly dialed in....so it's probably just a matter of fluctuation within that range. Will be interesting to see how os7 sales went.....could be some other tidbits of interest, but....

....and of course....immediate market reactions should not be conflated with long-term outlook - though, they always are around here! :-)

The 2 biggest questions for this year will be:

1) Did the past-BBOS-users living in "developped" Nations, jump on the BB10 wagon?

2) Could BlackBerry entice consumers in emerging markets enough with the Q5?

( 3. Where the eff is the Z5?!)

Posted via CB10

[Rooster99]

The problem with this one is it is using the past reports and earnings coupled with the fcf and debt load... or lack there of. If I had no idea of what changes were done and where they are going, and I just looked at past statements of loss over the past number of quarters (baring Q4 of course), I might come to the same conclusion. Knowing the changes and believing that the platform and company will be a success, and seeing a profit turned already, I feel that those who heed the past, but realize the work done and vision, will have a very different outlook than this particular report indicates.

With all due respect, this is a fundamental part of any analysis. You always have to balance future prospects (with probabilities and risk incorporated) against past performance (unchangeable).

I don't think this report pretended to forecast future events or conditions, they just stated where BB was based on historical performance and gave you a pretty thorough explanation of the underlying formulae they used to develope their stats. Pretty transparent and from what I saw, reasonable.

So overall, I don't see any problem with this report as it was written. It's up to those reading it to determine how much weight to put on the past facts vs the future potential.

- R.

[aloy12]

Here is done weight:
http://www.thegadgetmasters.com/2013...rating-system/

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[richardat]

Here is done weight:
BlackBerry Set to Overtake Android in Canada to Become Number 2 Smartphone OS | The Gadget Masters

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I am REALLY skeptical about that site, and still haven't seen an explanation for the odd, one day reversal of BB's fortunes in Canada, but I have to say, if that site is accurate, it certainly is grim news for BB!