1. stevegordie's Avatar
    For any BB user considering the Z10 or Q10 that is a BIS user and who roams internationally, STOP & reconsider. There is absolutely no imperative to stick with bb. Up till now you have enjoyed mega compression on your data usage. So if your international roaming $100. It will now be 7 to 10 times as much.

    Firstly you need know if you are a BIS. Look up BES & BIS definitions. If you are a corporate user you could be BES. Small businesses & individuals will most likely be BIS

    BB has abandoned BIS Roamers. Up until now, the blackberry service hugely compressed your emails. At home, this didn`t matter so much. You have a data plan. But while travelling data usage is charged at exorbitant rates. I personally swallowed a $150 data bill for 2 weeks business in Europe. My current USA experience tells me this will be more like $1,000. The BB strategists have decided under carrier pressure it seems, that data compression for emails is no longer required. There are a whole variety of other reasons, but technically it is doable.

    So before you rush off to buy the Z10 or Q10, either consider sticking with the bb7 that you have, or open yourself to the world of Android or iOS. The user experience of the BB10 is interesting but certainly not compelling, previous BB skills aren`t advantageous, and the device choices and accelerating development of the android &iOS platform make these platforms more worthwhile.
    04-09-13 02:05 AM
  2. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    It wasn't only the data compression, you could also disable automore, download images automatically, disable html so you could see the text only and in extreme cases you could reboot into safe mode to make sure all apps are completely inactive in the background unless you open them.
    Dave79 and blakobecwa like this.
    04-09-13 02:18 AM
  3. clieman's Avatar
    In Asia, we have this all you can eat international roaming data package at around USD$10/day. So it is a small price to pay.

    I do agree that without BIS, a BB Z10 does not differ much from a iPhone/Android in term of data usage. Worst case is there is no easy way to disable internet access in individual programs (FB, 4Square, Twitter etc) like in iPhone. I know you don't need that in OS7.1 with BIS, but then with Z10 it is another story.
    04-09-13 02:54 AM
  4. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Or you can just use some common sense and purchase an unlock code for your device or get it from your carrier, use local SIM cards and never worry about roaming charges at all.

    Sincerly,

    A Canadian currently in the U.S not paying roaming fees but instead using T-Mobile with no contract.

    Posted via CB10
    04-09-13 02:57 AM
  5. Gatmyer's Avatar
    The BB strategists have decided under carrier pressure it seems, that data compression for emails is no longer required. There are a whole variety of other reasons, but technically it is doable.

    or open yourself to the world of Android or iOS.
    Bingo, data is the money maker for carriers now.

    Why would going droid or IOS help? They also do not compress data.

    I recommend giving your carrier a call before travelling. Mine has packages to avoid the roaming charges.
    04-09-13 02:59 AM
  6. Gatmyer's Avatar
    In Asia, we have this all you can eat international roaming data package at around USD$10/day. So it is a small price to pay.

    I do agree that without BIS, a BB Z10 does not differ much from a iPhone/Android in term of data usage. Worst case is there is no easy way to disable internet access in individual programs (FB, 4Square, Twitter etc) like in iPhone. I know you don't need that in OS7.1 with BIS, but then with Z10 it is another story.
    You can disable data while roaming. Check the data settings.
    Pmungus and fargery like this.
    04-09-13 03:03 AM
  7. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Or you can just use some common sense and purchase an unlock code for your device or get it from your carrier, use local SIM cards and never worry about roaming charges at all.

    Sincerly,

    A Canadian currently in the U.S not paying roaming fees but instead using T-Mobile with no contract.

    Posted via CB10
    And how do you get your phone calls?

    PS technically that's not roaming if you use a local sim.
    04-09-13 03:07 AM
  8. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    You can disable data while roaming. Check the data settings.
    And why would you do that? If you disable data you're not roaming anymore, the phone is just a brick in your pocket. We need our phones to work as intended.
    04-09-13 03:08 AM
  9. tstrike34's Avatar
    For any BB user considering the Z10 or Q10 that is a BIS user and who roams internationally, STOP & reconsider. There is absolutely no imperative to stick with bb. Up till now you have enjoyed mega compression on your data usage. So if your international roaming $100. It will now be 7 to 10 times as much.

    Firstly you need know if you are a BIS. Look up BES & BIS definitions. If you are a corporate user you could be BES. Small businesses & individuals will most likely be BIS

    BB has abandoned BIS Roamers. Up until now, the blackberry service hugely compressed your emails. At home, this didn`t matter so much. You have a data plan. But while travelling data usage is charged at exorbitant rates. I personally swallowed a $150 data bill for 2 weeks business in Europe. My current USA experience tells me this will be more like $1,000. The BB strategists have decided under carrier pressure it seems, that data compression for emails is no longer required. There are a whole variety of other reasons, but technically it is doable.

    So before you rush off to buy the Z10 or Q10, either consider sticking with the bb7 that you have, or open yourself to the world of Android or iOS. The user experience of the BB10 is interesting but certainly not compelling, previous BB skills aren`t advantageous, and the device choices and accelerating development of the android &iOS platform make these platforms more worthwhile.

    I have the Verizon Global plan. Whats all the hubbub, bub? BIS is creaky, old, and S.L.O.W. And dependency on the NOC infrastructure means that you have a key weakness as it can (and has been) a single point of failure.

    Gimme redundancy anyday of the week.
    R Field, SDTRMG and seacan2 like this.
    04-09-13 03:11 AM
  10. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I have the Verizon Global plan. Whats all the hubbub, bub? BIS is creaky, old, and S.L.O.W. And dependency on the NOC infrastructure means that you have a key weakness as it can (and has been) a single point of failure.

    Gimme redundancy anyday of the week.
    BIS is not slow, that's a huge missconception, kids could watch youtube videos on the playbook bridged to my 9700 at 70mph in the back of the car. BBOS and hardware limitations made it feel slow. BIS connection is NOT SLOW!
    04-09-13 03:22 AM
  11. Jaybles's Avatar
    And why would you do that? If you disable data you're not roaming anymore, the phone is just a brick in your pocket. We need our phones to work as intended.
    So before smartphones and mobile data when I took my phone roaming it wasn't really roaming?

    If you disable data of course you are still roaming. Roaming just means connecting to a mobile network outside of your country.

    I'm pretty sure most business users have corporate BES accounts for working abroad. For those that don't use common sense and don't pay these massive roaming charges.
    Buy a local sim for pennies and have no worries about data and call charges. Or just switch your data off till you are in a wifi hotspot.

    Posted via CB10
    SDTRMG and seacan2 like this.
    04-09-13 06:41 AM
  12. tstrike34's Avatar
    BIS is not slow, that's a huge missconception, kids could watch youtube videos on the playbook bridged to my 9700 at 70mph in the back of the car. BBOS and hardware limitations made it feel slow. BIS connection is NOT SLOW!
    Dude anytime you have compression of any type, you will have latency issues. Thats just the way it is.

    Listen, the carriers had a weakened RIM by the balls. In other words, if BBRY wants to push their products they had to concede BIS. That meant that the carriers actually increase their profit in two ways:
    • No overhead for BIS service charges (that was really passed on to the customer)
    • Profitability from data charges for their own speedier networks


    Straight bidness....
    04-09-13 06:49 AM
  13. calyth's Avatar
    BB has abandoned BIS Roamers. Up until now, the blackberry service hugely compressed your emails. At home, this didn`t matter so much. You have a data plan. But while travelling data usage is charged at exorbitant rates. I personally swallowed a $150 data bill for 2 weeks business in Europe. My current USA experience tells me this will be more like $1,000. The BB strategists have decided under carrier pressure it seems, that data compression for emails is no longer required. There are a whole variety of other reasons, but technically it is doable.

    So before you rush off to buy the Z10 or Q10, either consider sticking with the bb7 that you have, or open yourself to the world of Android or iOS. The user experience of the BB10 is interesting but certainly not compelling, previous BB skills aren`t advantageous, and the device choices and accelerating development of the android &iOS platform make these platforms more worthwhile.
    BlackBerry didn't abandon the bis user, the world had abandoned the BIS.

    There are side effects with the BIS that people didn't understand and therefore did not want. People don't know why the browsing experience seems slower than others (the bis resizing images and re com pressing them). People wondered why email always need to download in 2 k chunks, which was inconvenient (until you don't want to download everything when roaming. ). People didn't want to pay the blackberry tax known as the BIS

    Consider yourself lucky that the push services are still offered even though they no longer make money out of it. It's a giant cost, and giant single point of failure (I wonder why there was that massive relay outage). Before you say why didn't they re implement the BIS protocol for bb10, think - if they did, do you think you'll get the z10 so quickly? They'd have to write the thing against an existing legacy system with no other library to leverage from. In coding terms, that's a giant pain.

    Most people stopped caring about data usage a while back, and most of all they didn't want to pay that extra 5 bucks for what they perceived to be inferior (higher latency) browsing / strange email behaving experience. The carriers didn't want to maintain another box for BlackBerry users. If the bis goes, all the blackberry users goes.

    Posted via CB10
    bluetroll, SDTRMG and drknobs like this.
    04-09-13 07:13 AM
  14. freighter1's Avatar
    Or you can just use some common sense and purchase an unlock code for your device or get it from your carrier, use local SIM cards and never worry about roaming charges at all.

    Sincerly,

    A Canadian currently in the U.S not paying roaming fees but instead using T-Mobile with no contract.

    Posted via CB10
    Blaize, just a quick question...are you using pay per day on your z10 with tmobile? I use it with my iPhone, but when I went to fl with friends last year their BlackBerry 7 phones wouldn't connect to data. Last time I checked, there is no prepaid data option for BlackBerry.
    Guess this is really a 2 part question, are you using pay per day, and if so, does mobile data work on the z10?
    Sorry for the thread drift guys...



    Posted via CB10
    Nels likes this.
    04-09-13 07:22 AM
  15. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Dude anytime you have compression of any type, you will have latency issues. Thats just the way it is.

    Listen, the carriers had a weakened RIM by the balls. In other words, if BBRY wants to push their products they had to concede BIS. That meant that the carriers actually increase their profit in two ways:
    • No overhead for BIS service charges (that was really passed on to the customer)
    • Profitability from data charges for their own speedier networks


    Straight bidness....
    If a network is fast enough to stream good quality video then it's fast enough for me. BTW, why are you concerned with the carrier or BB saving money? Do you like paying more? I don't.
    04-09-13 07:26 AM
  16. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    BlackBerry didn't abandon the bis user, the world had abandoned the BIS.

    There are side effects with the BIS that people didn't understand and therefore did not want. People don't know why the browsing experience seems slower than others (the bis resizing images and re com pressing them). People wondered why email always need to download in 2 k chunks, which was inconvenient (until you don't want to download everything when roaming. ). People didn't want to pay the blackberry tax known as the BIS

    Consider yourself lucky that the push services are still offered even though they no longer make money out of it. It's a giant cost, and giant single point of failure (I wonder why there was that massive relay outage). Before you say why didn't they re implement the BIS protocol for bb10, think - if they did, do you think you'll get the z10 so quickly? They'd have to write the thing against an existing legacy system with no other library to leverage from. In coding terms, that's a giant pain.

    Most people stopped caring about data usage a while back, and most of all they didn't want to pay that extra 5 bucks for what they perceived to be inferior (higher latency) browsing / strange email behaving experience. The carriers didn't want to maintain another box for BlackBerry users. If the bis goes, all the blackberry users goes.

    Posted via CB10
    Again, the latency did not come from the network, the network supports youtube streaming without a problem. The BBOS and hardware limitations made it slow, not the BIS network.
    Grumblegrumble likes this.
    04-09-13 07:29 AM
  17. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    So before smartphones and mobile data when I took my phone roaming it wasn't really roaming?

    If you disable data of course you are still roaming. Roaming just means connecting to a mobile network outside of your country.

    I'm pretty sure most business users have corporate BES accounts for working abroad. For those that don't use common sense and don't pay these massive roaming charges.
    Buy a local sim for pennies and have no worries about data and call charges. Or just switch your data off till you are in a wifi hotspot.

    Posted via CB10
    And how do you get your calls and sms when you buy a local sim? Are you going to ask everybody to make international calls to contac you? Or international sms? That's not roaming.

    A legacy BB with BIS allows you to use your phone abroad just as you're using it back home with very little extra charges.
    04-09-13 07:32 AM
  18. bluetroll's Avatar
    Blaize, just a quick question...are you using pay per day on your z10 with tmobile? I use it with my iPhone, but when I went to fl with friends last year their BlackBerry 7 phones wouldn't connect to data. Last time I checked, there is no prepaid data option for BlackBerry.
    Guess this is really a 2 part question, are you using pay per day, and if so, does mobile data work on the z10?
    Sorry for the thread drift guys...



    Posted via CB10
    T-Mobile offers a $3/day for unlimited 4G data. All you need to do is drop by a local T-Mobile and ask for pay as you go.

    People complaining a about bis are ridiculous, it's time to move to 2013. We no longer require bis in a time with unlimited data. It's so easy to just drop by a carrier and pick up a local sim.

    The only bonus from bis now is the fact that you don't need to swap sim.

    Posted via CB10
    seacan2 likes this.
    04-09-13 07:33 AM
  19. Xopher's Avatar
    BIS was the lock down on international travel. You would have to stay with your carrier to keep getting emails and BBM, since those things didn't transfer over if you used a different SIM. If you rely on email and BBM, the ability to continue to get those on the Z10, even after switching SIMs, makes it an attractive option for international travelers. It just depends on if you rely on phone calls more than data.

    Bla1ze is a good example. He can grab a monthly prepaid account from T-Mobile, still get emails and BBM, all without having to change anything on the BIS side. The only thing that really changed was the phone number. With something like a Google Voice number, people could call him without even knowing the number had changed. All without any roaming fees.

    The question really depends on how much you rely on phone calls vs data.

    Posted via CB10
    marcati, john_v and retomex like this.
    04-09-13 07:36 AM
  20. yvpan1's Avatar
    And how do you get your calls and sms when you buy a local sim? Are you going to ask everybody to make international calls to contac you? Or international sms? That's not roaming.

    A legacy BB with BIS allows you to use your phone abroad just as you're using it back home with very little extra charges.
    why is it so troublesome to carry another phone just to keep your sim online to receive calls and texts from home? that is roaming, but it is a SMART way to roam. you told people here that you don't wanna pay more for roaming but what you suggested here on this thread was actually to keep people to use their simcards when they go overseas. i'm so confused here really. what is it you're trying to point out? get people to stick with BIS? or get people to abandon their intention to purchase the Z or the Q10?

    sorry to hit you to the corner. i admire BBRY, i admire how BIS works. BIS is a revolutionary technology and not even the push mechanism of iOS or Android of WP can beat the way BIS works as it's built from an architecture of more than 25 years of experience. BUT, keeping on sending the data to the NOC before being sent back to the handset with compression for today's world will make everyone to be frustrated of loadings and latency. for legacy devices yeah the hardware maybe the limit but for BB10 devices, if you try to put BIS inside the Z or the Q, their performance will be jeopardised dismally.
    04-09-13 07:45 AM
  21. Jaybles's Avatar
    And how do you get your calls and sms when you buy a local sim? Are you going to ask everybody to make international calls to contac you? Or international sms? That's not roaming.

    A legacy BB with BIS allows you to use your phone abroad just as you're using it back home with very little extra charges.
    I have a cheap feature phone which I can out my UK SIM in when I travel. Phone calls and texts will then come through as normal. Of course those will be charged at roaming rates.

    If you have a local SIM you can use that number for people to contact you and even better you can use cheap data.

    Or just incur the roaming calls and data rates on your z10. It works just like any other phone when roaming. I certainly saw some expensive roaming bills even through BIS on my 9900.




    Posted via CB10
    jesse_h likes this.
    04-09-13 07:45 AM
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    T-Mobile offers a $3/day for unlimited 4G data. All you need to do is drop by a local T-Mobile and ask for pay as you go.

    People complaining a about bis are ridiculous, it's time to move to 2013. We no longer require bis in a time with unlimited data. It's so easy to just drop by a carrier and pick up a local sim.

    The only bonus from bis now is the fact that you don't need to swap sim.

    Posted via CB10
    But the problem my data is not unlimited and the trend with most carriers is to discontinue unlimited data plans. The age of the unlimited is coming to an end.
    04-09-13 07:46 AM
  23. jesse_h's Avatar
    Alright, so go buy an iphone or android.... Oh, wait, same problem.....

    It had to happen eventually, so let's move on.

    Unlock it and use a local sim card.




    Posted via CB10 from my Zed
    04-09-13 07:47 AM
  24. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Blaize, just a quick question...are you using pay per day on your z10 with tmobile? I use it with my iPhone, but when I went to fl with friends last year their BlackBerry 7 phones wouldn't connect to data. Last time I checked, there is no prepaid data option for BlackBerry.
    Guess this is really a 2 part question, are you using pay per day, and if so, does mobile data work on the z10?
    Sorry for the thread drift guys...



    Posted via CB10
    I used prepaid pay per day when travelling in MD USA with my Dev Alpha A on T-Mobile. It worked just fine.
    04-09-13 07:51 AM
  25. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Alright, so go buy an iphone or android.... Oh, wait, same problem.....

    It had to happen eventually, so let's move on.

    Unlock it and use a local sim card.




    Posted via CB10 from my Zed
    Not so simple if you need calls, sms and data.
    04-09-13 07:57 AM
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