[rdcanuck]

Yes, another push email thread but I am pretty sure that I have stumbled onto something new.
Short story: Push mail syncing (GMail in this case) behaves different on Z10 depending on the network connection. If connected via WIFI, the syncing is almost instant but if connected to mobile network only (LTE Rogers in my case), than 15 minutes in the fastest syncing interval.

Long story:
I have been trying to figure out why I was getting such awful response times on my Gmail. I had some tests where the email did not appear for over 30 minutes on my Z10. People were up in arms about Enterprise Active Sync, IMAP settings, etc.... I tried everything but my emails were still ridiculously slow to arrive. My friend's iphone was getting the same emails very quickly and I was out of the conversation that was taking place via email since I was 2-3 responses behind everyone else.
For background, I am a long time BB user with BIS only. I am self-employed consultant that is always working at cleint locations where 1) I cannot access their BES, and 2) have no WiFi access. I use my email and BBM extensively on the BB and also tether my laptop & playbook for internet access at these sites.

I got my new Z10 on opening day in Canada, Feb 5th, from Rogers and set it up right away. It was a while before I noticed that my email was being delayed. it took a "real-time" email conversation while trying to plan a group meeting with a bunch of friends that I realized that I was missing most of the back and forth. I would get 10 emails at once that everyone else had been responding to on their devices or corporate email. I felt like a fool that my BB was the slow link.
After reading many threads and opinions here, I was afraid that Google had screwed Blackberry by removing the EAS for free gmail on new devices. I also reset my connections to EAS on the Z10. I also have a outlook.com email account setup that I don't use much but in testing I found it was only slightly better that the Gmail account as far as time to receive was.
Some people reported the same thing and others said that their email receiving was instant. I was beginning to consider whether or not to get my own BES server and Exchange so that I could fix this.
In all my testing to date, the Z10 was not connected to WIFI. When I got home and connected to WiFi, I repeated some tests and suddenly the email came in instantly (just like in the days of old on BIS). I repeated the tests then turned off WiFi. The results were that when only on LTE, the email takes 15 minutes to arrive. On WiFi is is instant.

What is going on? It seems that BlackBerry has built in some weird power management functions that affects emails? Is there any documentation about this anywhere? Is it a Rogers network only thing (I doubt it)?

Perhaps others with more insight than I can test and confirm and then chime in.

To avoid the rampant fanboi back lash, I will refrain from commenting on how this makes me feel about my most anticipated Blackberry device ever

[sandmanfvr]

People on here listed they fixed this I need to know this to as I will be using gmail and need push. I wonder if you can change a setting?

[rdcanuck]

Yes there is a specific, non-intuitive setup that you need to do for Gmail as others have posted (see this link):
KB33472 - How to integrate Google Apps accounts as ActiveSync

But, in spite of this, it seems that the network connection also affects the push timing. This is the purpose of this thread.

[Omnitech]

Very interesting. It would certainly make possible sense that Blackberry might have done something like that intentionally as a battery-saving or data-saving measure, but I would have hoped it would be documented somewhere.

I found the Z10 owner's manual to be vague in a lot of ways, gives me the feeling they were afraid it would be more quickly made irrelevant if they later changed certain details about how the OS worked. For example while there are images of icons, there appear to be almost no full screenshots in that document at all, maybe 2 or 3 at most, and the term "IMAP" appears nowhere in the manual.

[b320]

Very interesting. It would certainly make possible sense that Blackberry might have done something like that intentionally as a battery-saving or data-saving measure, but I would have hoped it would be documented somewhere.

I found the Z10 owner's manual to be vague in a lot of ways, gives me the feeling they were afraid it would be more quickly made irrelevant if they later changed certain details about how the OS worked. For example while there are images of icons, there appear to be almost no full screenshots in that document at all, maybe 2 or 3 at most, and the term "IMAP" appears nowhere in the manual.

IMAP appearances in BlackBerry documentation for BlackBerry 10:
Adding an email account using advanced setup

Also, what the OP describes should not be happening. A BlackBerry 10 devices are intended to access push accounts, including IMAP-IDLE and Exchange ActiveSync, in such a way that you're getting "push," that is you get your messages on your device within a few seconds of them arriving on your email server. There may be slight delays depending on server and connection loads but you shouldn't routinely experience delays of 15-30 minutes using push. Many people on the forums are getting very good results with push on BlackBerry 10 devices. If you are experiencing what the OP is experiencing, you should troubleshoot.

[Omnitech]

IMAP appearances in BlackBerry documentation for BlackBerry 10:
Adding an email account using advanced setup

I was referring to the standard Z10 owners manual, a PDF file: http://docs.blackberry.com/en/smartp...-10.0.0-en.pdf

As another example, the manual says nothing whatsoever about how to import an X.509 cert to the device, which is also frustrating some other people that have posted here who as a result cannot connect to their company WiFi networks. All the manual says is "Contact your administrator".

Definitely needs more detailed info.

[ealvnv]

OP, I get my email instantaneously either on wifi or LTE, so no is not that.

Try removing and re adding the account



Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[b320]

I was referring to the standard Z10 owners manual, a PDF file: http://docs.blackberry.com/en/smartp...-10.0.0-en.pdf

As another example, the manual says nothing whatsoever about how to import an X.509 cert to the device, which is also frustrating some other people that have posted here who as a result cannot connect to their company WiFi networks. All the manual says is "Contact your administrator".

Definitely needs more detailed info.

Yes, it does appear that the documentation is currently not really exhaustive on what's available and what's not.

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[tharrison4815]

Well apparently there are two versions of BB10 on the Z10. Maybe in the newer version they fix this and the OP is on the old version?

The "Software release version" for me is 10.0.9.348 which I believe is the newer of the two.

Anyone who is having this problem what software release version are you on?

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[rdcanuck]

OP, I get my email instantaneously either on wifi or LTE, so no is not that.

Try removing and re adding the account



Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

Thanks for replying with a real test result. Some others on this board have not bothered to do that before declaring how wrong I am.

I have removed and added accounts several times and used both imap and eas setups for Gmail. EAS does work better it seems. I am for sure having the delay when on mobile network only (lte).
Since a lot of people seem to not be having this problem it must be specific to my device or situation somehow.
I do have the latest BB10 version installed


One thought that comes to mind: what if my provider did not switch my bis plan over properly when the Z10 was activated? When I look a t my account online (Rogers), my data plan still shows as a 6gb BlackBerry plan linked to a bold 9900. This was my plan and I did not want the cap changed when I got the z10 so I made sure that they didn't touch it. Could this be causing any weirdness? Is that even possible?
I do not know about this stuff but how could I verify the correct settings? Is this where the APN setting comes in or that old school?

I am encouraged more now that near instant email receipt from Gmail is possible in the field and I just absolutely have to get it working even if I have to pay for something .



Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[Xopher]

That throws another wrench into the mix. Does coming from a pre-existing BIS account affect email?

It may very well be that keeping the BIS account active on an account might affect how things are routed through the carrier. I guess that would be something else to test: delay times when BIS is attached to a Z10, and without BIS.

[b320]

That throws another wrench into the mix. Does coming from a pre-existing BIS account affect email?

It may very well be that keeping the BIS account active on an account might affect how things are routed through the carrier. I guess that would be something else to test: delay times when BIS is attached to a Z10, and without BIS.

No. A BlackBerry 10 device does use (nor does it support) BIS for *any* email services.

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[freighter1]

No. A BlackBerry 10 device does use (nor does it support) BIS for *any* email services.

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

I am sure that you are correct, but I just got of the phone with Blackberry technical services, regarding Bell provisioning, and they told me that BB10 REQUIRES BIS for mobile access...damn I wish this was easier, looks like I won't be able to get a BB10 device

[ealvnv]

I am on BIS plan so this should make no difference, OP what OS versin you are using, please tell the numbers because the latest is very well different on various devices

Z10STL100-1/10.0.10.261 this the latest for me

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[rdcanuck]

My Os version is STL100-3 / 10.0.9.348

Provider: Rogers (Canada)


Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[kyleheney]

My Os version is STL100-3 / 10.0.9.348

Provider: Rogers (Canada)


Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

I am running the same OS and experiencing slower email deliveries than I was previously used to on my 9900. I don't use WiFi much, but I'll try turning it on and see if that makes any difference. The number of threads with something like this being spoken about leads to believe that there is indeed an issue. Whether or not it is solved with the 10.0.10.xxx software version is another question that may end up solving this for us running 10.0.9.xxx

I also have an "old" BIS-type plan with Rogers. Curious to know if since email isn't BIS, the delay could be related to an extra step that things have to go through for those still on "BIS" plans. I wonder if any Rogers users with OS 10.0.9.xxx can chime in, especially if they have a data plan that definitely is NOT BIS.

[b320]

No. A BlackBerry 10 device does use (nor does it support) BIS for *any* email services.

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

Correction: that was supposed to say DOES NOT use. It appears that most people got the meaning anyway.

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[rdcanuck]

Correction: that was supposed to say DOES NOT use. It appears that most people got the meaning anyway.

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

I think that the non use of BIS has been well discussed on these boards but the mobile providers still seem confused about this.
What I am trying to determine is what happens if the mobile provider screws up and leaves the Z10 provisioned on a BIS plan? Would that cause weird email issues due to bad routing or whatever, knowing that the Z10 cannot use BIS?

[b320]

I think that the non use of BIS has been well discussed on these boards but the mobile providers still seem confused about this.
What I am trying to determine is what happens if the mobile provider screws up and leaves the Z10 provisioned on a BIS plan? Would that cause weird email issues due to bad routing or whatever, knowing that the Z10 cannot use BIS?

No, whether a BlackBerry 10 device is provisioned on a BIS plan or not should not matter. Your BlackBerry 10 device does NOT interact with your previous BIS-based email service.

One issue on BIS plans would be if some ports were blocked on your carrier for BIS plans and you needed those specific ports to get your email. This is *not* the case for you as you're experiencing slowness, not unavailability of service.

Finally, your carrier may be applying some sort of rate limiting / network management that causes the delays you're experiencing. If that's the case, no setting on your BlackBerry 10 device will change that.

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[raremage]

Yes there is a specific, non-intuitive setup that you need to do for Gmail as others have posted (see this link):
KB33472 - How to integrate Google Apps accounts as ActiveSync

But, in spite of this, it seems that the network connection also affects the push timing. This is the purpose of this thread.

I don't see what you are describing. I have an iPhone on a WiFi connection and a Z10 using LTE on AT&T. I also have an ipad and a playbook I can test with, as well as a couple of PCs. I can add a Windows phone, a couple of Android phones and an old Pre2 to test with if necessary. I see essentially identical email delivery via ActiveSync from Google Apps for business. All are synced to the same account, all get mail delivery at the same time, within a second or two of each other.

[ealvnv]

Don't quote me on this but it very well be an OS issue which seems to be fixed in newer builds, I will try to load an odd OS and see what happens with my email

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[tcee-]

I am on the Bell network, using EAS for my Gmail account, and I get my emails instantly (or as instant as my network connection allows so maybe ~5 seconds).

[kill_9]

Mail delivery from my IMAP account randomly changes from almost instantaneous to delayed by 15+ minutes. It is only my personal email so a delay is merely annoying rather than critical. My BlackBerry Enterprise Service 10 with Microsoft Exchange Server mail account is somewhat closer to the old BES push email.

[Pierrohhh]

im on the line with rim, they are trying to sort this out with rogers. rim called rogers for me. ill update with more info, from what rim tech support told me, my bb10 transfer was for some reason moved from bis to bes and all my accounts got messed up transfering to rogers lte. rogers might very well be the one at fault here. their tech support people are just to ******** to be able to figure this stuff out.

ill get back to you guys with what i get out of this

[PatatesFrites]

So here is our story. (hold on, English is not my native language and to make it worse, I'm not good at making long story short! )

I work for a large company and our VP got a Z10 demo device from BB/Rogers. The VP configured it himself but had several issue (from what I've been told, at the beginning I think he was using his SIM from his current BB so it had to be converted to a normal LTE plan). But after the basic issues have been resolved, he was complaining about not receiving his email, having the same email repeated multiple time and experiencing serious delay. He wanted to throw the Z10 by the windows but was told by a Rogers rep that he was the only one having problem with the Z10 so far. Following this, I'm now part of a team that is dedicated in finding the problem related to ActiveSync delay (No BES10 for us for now)

So he gave me the Z10 along with a Rogers sim bound to an LTE data/voice plan. I've reset the device, set it up on my account and It didn't take long for us to reproduce the delayed delivery problem. And, as said in the first post we have, too, remarked that using WIFI (DMZ in the office or at home), everything was working fine.

I personally use a Lumia 920, also on Rogers with LTE and have remarked that some time, although I see "Email up to date" at the top, some email are not there and pressing the easily found button at the bottom, it starts synchronizing and there, my new email are downloaded. But on the Z10 it's different than Windows Phone. There's no feedback to the user. You don't know by looking at the main email hub that your email aren't synchronized... and you have to go in the option to hit refresh each time. For a VP, I can imagining it to be a non-viable issue.

So being able to reproduce the exact same behavior with my Lumia 920 (with our corporate Exchange server and also with my Office 365 account), we decided to try also with an iPad 3G, also on Rogers Network. Everything work fine on the iPad. As most of you may know, when someone hit the "email" button on an iOS device, it trigger a lookup on the email server... this is not what we were doing. For each tests, we made sure the device was synchronized, then we went to the home screen. On iOS, that means that when I sent an email to it, the unread counter on the mail icon incremented within a few seconds signaling the reception of the email (same applies to Windows Phone).

So I checked with a consultant running the same Nokia Lumia 920 as I do, but unlocked to work on Bell's LTE network. After having confirmed that he had no problem with his office 365 account, I set up an test email account on his device. Guess what? On Bell's LTE network it works perfectly as it's supposed to. Since both account worked perfectly (he had wifi turned off by the way!), I put my Rogers LTE sim in his phone. We made sure network was working well and we made the test: it didn't work.

I was able to replicate the problem on various Windows phone 7.5, Windows Phone 8, and on various iOS devices and of course, on the Z10.

Here are the results:
Lumia 920 (my phone) � SIM LTE Rogers = Push don't work (neither on our corporate or on my Office 365 account)
Lumia 920 (my phone) � Wifi = Works perfectly (on both of my account)

Blackberry Z10 (VP's phone, but with my accounts) � SIM LTE Rogers = Push don't work (neither on our corporate or on my Office 365 account)
Blackberry Z10 (VP's phone, but with my accounts) � Works perfectly (on both of my account)

Lumia 920 unlocked (consultant) � SIM LTE Bell = works with a test account from our corporate exchange and my friend also have an Office 365 account working
Lumia 920 unlocked (consultant) � SIM LTE Rogers (my SIM card) = same issue.. Push don't work

Samsung Focus (colleague) - 3G Rogers = Push works on 3G

Ipad 3G (email admin) = Push works on 3G

Ipad 3G (my boss) = Push works on 3G
Ipad 3G (my boss) via tethering on LTE Rogers Lumia 920 = Push don't work

Ipad LTE Rogers (colleague) = Push don't work
Iphone 4 3G Fido (colleague) = Push works on Fido's 3G

Ipad LTE Bell (team leader 1) = Push works
Iphone 5 LTE Rogers (team leader 1) = Push don't works

Yesterday, what made me think toward an "LTE only" issue with Rogers is the fact that, since the beginning, I have a 6GB data plan with Rogers. I had various devices throughout the years but last april I bought a Lumia 900 (LTE). Starting with the Lumia 900, I wasn't able to use the Internet Sharing (Tethering) feature. I keep getting the error that I didn't have a data plan. Reading through the Rogers forum, many people were saying that my 3G plan had to be switched to an LTE one. Calling numerous time to Rogers customer number result in "I don't know what you're talking about" - "There are no LTE plan" etc... until a guy in a Rogers store told me "Hey you're on a corporate plan, why don't you call the corporate support line?". I end up speaking with a support who finally knew what I was talking about: "Of course I'll do it for you". As soon as she hit the button, my phone switched from 4G to LTE. (all this story to tell you that: ) She then explained to me that the LTE network was a complete separate network from the 3G and that I hadn't the proper access profile on my account.

If it's a complete separate network (I don't know at which level), there's may be something simple that is not configured properly: A router or firewall somewhere with a low sessions idle timeout? Packet fragmentation? I really don't know for now.

I'm supposed to speak with a network engineer from Rogers tomorrow. If you have any experiences that may help us solving this problem, you are welcome!

to be continued...